Farseer model from DoW/WA in DC

[NecronLady]

I replaced farseer model in Dark Crusade with one from Dawn of War/Winter Assualt and it works fine, but when Pariah makes a sync skill she keeps standing instead of sync kill animation. I know that sync kill is new (in DC) so old model doesn't have it's animation at all. My question is how to make old model display it as the new model does? Thank you.

[RT2]

In OE
You might be able to import animations from the two variants of Farseer.

you will need Mudflaps whe to ebp tools and whm to sgm tools.

Do not expect it to work first time as it is a bit of a trick,

If the models components are labeled the same you can import the animations in the Object editor.

You only need the whm to be modified to use another model animation set.

the whm can stay the same, without change.

[NecronLady]

Thank you for the answer.
So I got both DC 1.2 Mod tools and Mudflap's tools (from here, please correct if this version isn't lastest one) and did this:
- got the farseer's whe and whm files from W40kData-Whm-High.sga
- converted whe file to ebp
- copied and renamed the Put_me_in_datageneric_and_change_my_name.sgm file as explained
- tried to open the ebp file with Object Editor but it said it couldn't load the model
- converted the whm file to sgm and replaced existing sgm file with this one, and OE still cannot load the model.
So I tried it with new model from Dark Crusade, not Dawn of War. Extracted the whm and whe files from DXP2Data-Whm-High.sga, converted the whe file to ebp and whm to sgm. "Unable to load model" error popped up again.
If you ask me for ebp and sgm file locations (something about them was mentioned in one of readmes), first model is located in:
/THQ\Dawn of War - Dark Crusade\ModTools\DataGeneric\DXP2\Art\ebps\races\eldar\troops
Second model has same path but for other race.

Any thought how to make it work?

Edit: I noticed there are also farseer_tgd and necron_lord_tgd whe and whm files only in Dark Crusade sgas. Do they have something with other model and if they do, why the old farseer model doesn't have them?

[Kasrkin84]

I believe the ones marked "tgd" are used for the Dark Crusade single player campaign, for wargear upgrades.

[RT2]

For OE you only need the sgm and ebp.

And I also believe that the _TGD. are for weapons upgrades for SP, so weapons could be changed through the game.
Do you intend to use different weapons upgrades Like used in Ultimate apocalypse.

Okay it sounds like mudflaps tools mightn't of extracted it correctly or that the OE isn't configured correctly.
You've got the right mudflaps tools.

when you extract the sgm/ebp does it Close Automatically, or does it wait for you to close/ok it?
If it closes straight away it mightn't be able to convert the files.

[NecronLady]

Never played Ultimate Apocalypse so I don't know what these weapons upgrades exactly are, but actually I don't wish to change anything there right now. I was curious what are tgd files for.
Just tried will ebp and sgm tools close automatically. Ebp tool listed text pretty fast in seconds and then closed. But sgm tool needed more time and when it was done, it didn't close.
Tried to open the ebp file in OE but it crashed (for first time). I saved warnings.log, 2-18-2012_08_01_04_ErrorLog.txt and bugreport.log, I can post them if it would help.
Tried same with sgm file, first I got "Model's ebp file already exists", then "Unable to load model" message. Saved it's warnings.log too, other files weren't created/modified.

[RT2]

Okay so what you might need to do is NEW in OE to open up the sgm and have no EBP there. It should load as it sounds as if it the EBP which isn't converting correctly.

Alternately if you have max you can generate a EBP that way with "WHE convert".

If the sgm doesn't load it will possibly be a OE setup issue that needs to be worked on then.

Thanks for being patient as this could be frustrating.

Hear from you soon

[NecronLady]

I was a bit confused with results of this part.
First I moved the ebp of farseer model and did as you explained but I still get Unable to load model message. Then I tried same with Necron Lord's model and it worked. OE made a new necron_lord.ebp file. So I tried putting that file as ebp for farseer model but it didn't work.
Both models are from Dark Crusade.
No idea will old farseer model work. But for now, I'm glad that at least one model did
Thank you for help!

[RT2]

Okay, EBPs usually aren't swappable.
OE works good.

OE Creates an EBP for a SGM if one doesn't exist.

If you use Mudflaps whm to sgm, to create a new farseer sgm

Reload as NEW in OE.
If this fails. try the tgd farseer.
If this works try extracting the WHE to ebp as well and try opening it and it should also load so you have a full ebp for your whe creation.
it might extract correctly.
Usually when mudflaps doesn't ask you to close there is a problem and it is a crash.

explanations as to why EBPs arent swappable is because the ebp contains the references to the SGM animation sets.
Every SGM usually has different animation sets, hence the reason that the ebp are not usually able to ve swapped and can crash at times.

In a very few cases, when animation sets and all markers are the same, you can get away with using an ebp from another model.
It may be possible to use the two farseer from DC & DOW/WA.

yes it can get confusing and frustrating, remember that the concept works but has a learning curve.\
Patience will get you there .

[NecronLady]

None of farseer's sgm files were opened, still Unable to load model message. It didn't create the ebp file.
Opening farseer's converted ebp caused OE to crash. Mudflaps tools closed after converting that ebp.
I think animation difference between old and new model is only in sync death with Pariahs (and maybe Daemon Prince, but I didn't test it yet), because other animations are looking fine both in DC and DoW/WA.
So which ebp will I use for which sgm? Old farseer or new farseer?
It actually never wanted to open new farseer model at all.

[RT2]

I know that sync kill is new (in DC) so old model doesn't have it's animation at all. My question is how to make old model display it as the new model does?

If we cant get the old model SGM/EBP to open, this could be impossible.

It actually never wanted to open new farseer model at all.

The only way to get the synckill animations, without redoing it in max, was with importing animations into the old Fseer in OE from the new Fseer.

I know this will work because it was used with the chaos Listening post, Evil psyker, Genestealer.

Let me have a go and see if I get the same issues.

So its the DOW/WA Farseer, with the DC/SS animation(Synckill)

I will get back to you shortly with either "#@$% #@, I cant do it either".
Or "Like this..."

Lol the fun of modding.

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"#@$% #@, I cant do it either"

And yes I could actually import the New animations into the old EBP/WHE using 3ds max and I found that the models have totally different naming characteristic.
So it was invisible in the pariah syncdeath set.

There was also a lot more VIS animations imported as well to do with the wargear of the farseer.

I might know of a way round it though.
If you learn how to re-assign a syncdeath in AE/Corsix.
using rgd/lua editing.

you could assign syncdeath_1 or syncdeath_2 , syncdeath_3 to the desired action set.
This knowledge is outside my area of knowledge.

But there is still hope.

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Animation
syncdeath vs pariah is
action
syncdeath_8_motion

In AE or Corsix you need to edit the farseer/farseer_sp entity blueprint under attributes.
syncdeath_ext
---syncdeathinfo_08
------deadmotion_name
--------Changing the "value" from syncdeath_8 to the other syncdeaths mentioned above, till you get a sync death you are happy with as a death sequence.

Since this is not my area of specialty you might want to ask about it in the AE section of the forum.

This would be great if it worked as it would give us a second farseer to use in a seer council besides the regular lone farseer.

Tell us how you go please?
As I know I am curious about this.

[NecronLady]

So much for just a ponytail?
I thought of adding new animations of new farseer model into old farseer's and renaming them if necessary, which would be done only in OE without AE I guess. (AE - Attribute Editor?)
Other idea is to add that ponytail to the new model (old model has it able to add/remove as body part), but that would take longer to animate, and new model doesn't open in OE at all.
Could that be done without AE if new farseer model would open in OE? I managed to open old model in OE today, so I'll keep trying to get the new model open too. Will have a look in warnings.log.
If anyone knows how that would be done in AE, please post.
Till then...

Spoiler

Thank you.

[RT2]

Yep AE = Attribute Editor.

using OE to upgrade your old farseer, isn't going to happen.
I spent a good hour trying and no matter how I imported the extra animation, the models components are differently labeled.

So to do that you would need to use 3ds max.
sgm and ebp generation
also to move the ponytail between models.
AE/OE cant edit the model components, by adding parts.

Mudflaps tool doesn't extract new Farseer at all and it wont show in OE no matter how many times you extract it. Sorry.
To get the EBPs to open I had to convert whe in 3ds max to get the ebp to even be converted to OE comparable version.
I used the old Farseer.sgm relabeled to be able to see the new Farseer ebp.

As far as this techniques goes, I do not know of anyone else left on the forum that has used this method yet.
The only mod which uses this to my year and a bit of forum trawling is the Tyranids Mod. That was a long time ago.
I haven't found a tutorial about doing this on the forums.

Good luck.

[RT2]

Regarding this model.
I have done some work with vector software editing of textures.
I have a DDS version of the farseer from dow texture.

If you would like it I can email it to you, if you PM me,
Texture_tools 1.? will be required to make a rsh for the farseer.
to see it ingame the farseer wtp(team colour) will need to be placed in a zip/rar in the same folder, and the wtp non-compressed deleted.

If it is suitable, I can then further go on eto make a new WTP the same size as the RSH texture.

I would appreciate feedback on the quality of the texture if you are curious about learning how to do this.

Please advise.

[RT2]

Okay, I guess I will try it myself.

"One the road again...."...