I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon and say that the ending was utterly terrible, even more accentuated by the rest of the game being so brilliant. What the fuck? Really? What. The. Fuck.
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#301
I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon and say that the ending was utterly terrible, even more accentuated by the rest of the game being so brilliant. What the fuck? Really? What. The. Fuck.
Egregious Professor Of Cruel And Unusual Geography
I need to add that the indoctrination ending is impossible. The cutscene is not seen from Shepards perceptive, so we see the results of his actions from a non indoctrinated mind.
(Formerly "The Herald")
"The bible is like an EULA. People just scroll past everything and click "I agree" without reading it."
-Moe
#303
I guess he's hoping people actually read it this time around thenOriginally Posted by Misiok
@Mac_Bug - this picture has been shared a couple of times already in this thread. You're late
I am an Iron Warrior! Iron Within, Iron Without!
It should be on the first post of every thread about DLC and game development.
#305
It's a dream, Ewokz. You can see it from any direction.
I guess but don't you die if you die in a dream
That's the point. We don't know if it's a dream, or indoctrination or something. Bioware tries to save face by saying they planned the ending to be the way it is. I'm saying 'save face' because of the negative impact it had on the fans, so they'll probably release some 'true ending' DLC. While it's a good idea to fix their mistake, I guess they'll have pissed fans one way or another. For both making a true ending dlc for money, or for 'deliberately' leaving the game end in such a shitty way for future dlc
#308
There was so much wrong with the ending. It feels like they had to release a month early and just cobbled together what they had.
#309
Yeah, the ending almost feels tacked onto the rest of the game. It just doesn't fit at all with the rest.
I am hoping they do a dlc ending (or even a few extra levels leading to it) and I hope they make a shit load of money out of it.
For one reason. Even good games having a shit ending hardly ever lead to overly negative reviews - having shit endings has never really damaged sales, especially of end of trilogy products. The trend already exisits getting better paid dlc endings is not going to stop games from having shit endings.
The gears 3 ending was rapid and shoddy "here Baird take this disk which explains everything oh and you will never get to read it game over lol!" etc.
Producer meddling or new team suckage is probably the cause of shitty ending syndrome in this case (hey guys forget about the last chapter of your sp game and focus on MP despite the overwhelming negative feedback the leak is getting in this regard) - however the massive backlash this is getting may lead to something that no other format has EVER pulled off (well barring the odd directors cut, and Dicken's rewrites of his syndicated works endings when published as a novel) - We can finally have developers fix the shitty ending we are left with. And they can make a profit out of it and the trend will perpetuate.
One day the world will cry out for help, and producers will answer back... ok.
It worked with Fallout 3....... (DLC retconned retarded ending)
Well they better bring out that ending DLC or all the future DLC they've lined is going to be rather under-sold.
An amendment to the Red option so it only kills the Reapers not all synthetics would be good enough for me, plus throw in some closure in the form of Shepard being rescued and some cutscenes with all the companions, races and allies and I'd be happy.
Zach Naizer -
@masseffect Any idea when the debree on earth around the n7 armor is going to be removed?
Mass Effect-
@alaggyhost We have no ETA at this time
FFFFUUUUUUU (to be fair I thought the supar secret paragon ending was of earth no on the citadel) looks like bioware went all Bungie on us by having the actual ending be the legendary one.
Isn't the red one the renegade one? The blue one doesn't result in you destroying the citadel (which contains a relay) or the innocent ai races.
Did they keep the other races as slaves? The impression I got from Javik was that the Protheans gave every race they encountered a choice, join the Empire or die, and once they'd surrendered or been conquered they were absorbed into the Prothean Empire and their culture erased. Some conversation between him and Liara about other species in his cycle and he answered "They all became Prothean" iirc.Especially since their race used other races as slaves, who after seeing their master race get wtfowned tried to save themselves.
Spoiler
My brain just assploded. Liara has a chat with you about the Normandy getting lost on a deserted paradise planet.... and for no reason at all the ship and Liara end up on a deserted paradise planet.... indoctrination up in this bitch
In name. I doubt they modified them genetically to be literal with that. They join or die, just like how the Covenant in Halo works. The races join them and are called Covenant as a whole or get killed. Or like with the Tau, I think. In any case, they were the subservient races, and as Liara (I think, or Shep) says - a glorified name for slaves -.
EDIT: Mr Carrot. Please elaborate. Is that a new gimmicky feature of New game +?
You know what I would have liked? A "Let Shepard decide" ending.
You'd get a thirty scene of flashbacks to Shepards most important decisions over all of the mass effect games (council save/die, Collector base cleanse/destroy, calm/kill Wrex etc) and base it off your paragon/renegade rating, and then Shepard automatically chooses destruction or control. And then a proper ending cutscene, not the one we have now.
You pick destruction or control yourself if you'd like, depending on whether you listen to Anderson or the Illusive Man. I choose to believe that the Star Child thing doesn't exist, and neither does the synthetic ending.
Misiok, the ending being indoctrination is becoming increasingly clear, I just realised that the normandy crash (which is completely random) has more to do with a conversation earlier in the game firing through an indoctrinated shep as Harbinger assumes control than logic.
Kronoch, that seems a much better idea - the crucible can fire in either a control mechanism or auto destruct. You decide.....
About the indoctrination thing - as someone on bioware's forum I think posted - Renegade being destroy and Paragon being control might be inversed because Reapers might want you to 'control' them which in turn would make you dead and them 'alive', while destroy would kill them, and you would be free from their control.
I'm sorry but the indoctrination theory is bullshit. The Prothean AI on Thessia can immediately and accurately detect the presence of indoctrinated beings within its radius of action. This means that Shepard had no indoctrination whatsoever up until that point.
Afterwards, his only contact with the Reapers was blasting their hordes with guns or getting blasted by Harbinger from afar. TIM cannot indoctrinate people, only an actual Reaper can (Saren couldn't indoctrinate either, he had to lead them to Sovereign). The only possibility would be for the Catalyst to immediately indoctrinate Shepard as soon as he lifts the platform, but indoctrination isn't something that can be done instantly, especially not on an already very damaged subject.
re: control
"so TIM was right"
"yeah, but he was under our control. unlike you" *wink wink*
uhhh....
no.
I'm short and misanthropic. I'll bite your nipples off.
So I can blame multiplayer after all!There was so much wrong with the ending. It feels like they had to release a month early and just cobbled together what they had.
#323
I wonder what happened to the Praetorian and Scion? The plans for those units got blown up at the collector base? Why is there no Salarian Reaper construct?
Because humanity took the cake? Because maybe those husks were (Scion) human made, while Praetorian was Prothean made? That's my bet, since Collectors are from indoctrinated Prothean's, I guess they got some sexy long-term indoctrinated gizmos too. Scions though were most likely human leftovers from the juice processing thing, and since ME3 started with a fullblown Reaper invasion, Reapers just took what they had (Banshees, fuck those and the guy who created them, sick bastard, Bruters and so on) on the fly.
Banshees are the only enemy in the game that I had trouble with.
Immediate wal of bullets of it regardless of what else was in the area.
Those Halcyon Days...
i find it amusing that the best way to kill brutes is essentially to shoot them in the butt.
I find that lobbing three biotic grenades in it's face when it charges at you works wonders. At least half to three quarters of its hitpoints just disappear.
Ye gods, If I had been asked how I thought ME3 would end before I finished this game I never in a million years would've come close to that BS. Other than that, great game.
@Aesaar, the people that developed the MP was a seperate team.
It doesn't rule out indoctrination attempts (Shepard again, was renowned for having a strong mind and all that yadayada) >> Which in conclusive could force off the indoctrination attempts. However, in the final assault- he is put to the ultimate trial. Either he'll succumb to indoctrination, or destroy its influence. (Destroy ending leads you to the lying in debris, which is hinted in the game files as Shepard_Alive_male (I believe London is also mentioned). To furthermore clarify that whatever-occured during after the Harbinger pew-pew, theres' some other misc information that's surfaced;I'm sorry but the indoctrination theory is bullshit. The Prothean AI on Thessia can immediately and accurately detect the presence of indoctrinated beings within its radius of action. This means that Shepard had no indoctrination whatsoever up until that point.
For an example, bloody trees during the last-walk towards the beam; (Not seen during the actual assault.)
http://i40.tinypic.com/2a8kxhx.jpg
And as soon as the beam transports Shepard into the Citadel, you're immediately acknowledged that both Anderson // Shepard has not seen this location of the Citadel, and that it's well, different. How-so? Well, the Indoctrination screws up with your mentality, much like how the ending where the Catalyst portrays the final three selections for you, and you'd expect TIM to be the Renegade option, and Anderson to be the paragon. However, in this case- it's completely the opposite. They want you feel sympathy for the action of the Reapers, and the Catalyst is actually encouraging the player to pick Control/Synthetics(Succumbing to the Indoctrination). The Control ending even glares over to the Catalyst, and it's almost as you can see him smirk and dissapear, whereas the Destroy he fades away relatively fast, as an result to failure to indoctrinate Shepard (Again, with Perfect Ending, you'll wake up in London from the actual beam-that's scarred you).
The Prothean "DLC" was never meant to be an DLC to begin with. It had to become an DLC option ultimately for Bioware to pull off with the "satisfactional" ending, which the community wants. Hell, Bioware already took pre-caution in the events to the game, because honest to god, they probably expected some shitstorm to occur. They enforced the new forum rules and such, and they've gone rogue because they've been presumably hard at work with the finalized ending, which WILL be free-DLC, at least the ending will be- Omega DLC; Not so much.
There's abit to many loose ends, and Mass Effect is one of their golden pale horses, or whatever the appropiate metaphor is. You'd expect them to give us more of a closure, rather then the abrupt ending that was given. They've been hard-at-work, even stated by one of the producers of the game.
I could furthermore elaborate, but even in the Codex of Indoctrination and what's given to the players should give you a small hint that something just aint right towards the end of the game. For some minor bits and pieces of clarification, and someone's thought on the matter, which makes some sense I'd guess, I'd recommend watching this video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYgr1rqEec
It's sad that something completely random and unintended like the Indoctrination Theory is actually more plausible than the actual ending, to the point where a great many of the players are openly refusing to accept the canon end as canon.
- sincerely, the Sign Painter
#331
Well, we don't know its cannon. Bioware basically said before the game was release "Hold onto your game after you beat it" so there is something up.
That's still attempting to cobble something together from a plain bad ending. However, I'll address a few points.
1) No matter what happens, the relays and the citadel are destroyed. This destroys the cycle. If the Catalyst were indoctrinating you, surely its only purpose would be to continue the cycle? None of those choices make sense in that perspective. It just has to destroy Shepard and the Catalyst; this way, the current cycle believes the Crucible to be flawed and does not know the key to making it work and the cycle is thus preserved.
2) Obviously the Catalyst would rather have you choose the Synthesis or Control options, because those are the two options it believes are "right". One continues the existence of the Reapers as safeguards over the galaxy, while the other supposedly eliminates the problem entirely. In the Destroy option, it only sees the final death of organic life.
3) I don't see what's wrong with those trees? Surely the Reapers don't give a damn about killing non-sentient beings.
4) What isn't right towards the end of the game is that the ending was rushed and slapped on after the first two games being setup for an entirely different ending. I do not believe in the hypothesis that Bioware has created such a convoluted mess on purpose, just to "play" with us.
Well, in any case, if that is true, then Bioware pulled the biggest trolling in gaming history. If they 'fix' this and leave me happy, I won't know whether to be pissed at them because fuck that ending, or happy because good trollings should be praised.
But I wonder, if Shepard ultimately was in London, and heavily damaged, why the need for indoctrination and such? If they're gonna make a free DLC, it's going to be huge because Shep is badly damaged, the assault probably failed and they'll need to evacuate and find another plan or so. Maybe that's why the Normandy had to flee in the next CGI which seemed to be dumb and a plothole? Thinking it's over maybe Shepard, surviving, continued his mission and saved everyone? Hell.
"3) I don't see what's wrong with those trees? Surely the Reapers don't give a damn about killing non-sentient beings."
the trees aren't there before the beam hits you.
Because the trees weren't there in the first place. They're abit of a resemblance to the dreams Shepard had. They're symbolic.3) I don't see what's wrong with those trees? Surely the Reapers don't give a damn about killing non-sentient beings.
The Catalyst is not indoctrinating you. /Facepalm. It's Harbinger. The rest is just irrelevant, because nothing is "real" in whichever you pick that's not destroy. Destroy is the ONLY one that leads to the final +ending where Shepard "wakes" up in the debris of concrete (There's no concrete on the Citadel).If the Catalyst were indoctrinating you
Nothing was probably on purpose, but it might have been a cause of a deadline issue- and they needed to work-around and improv on the situation to their best capabilities. Or they just saw potential to make extra money, and I don't blame em for it.
I'd really recommend watching the video, as well as have a re-check on the codex regarding Indoctrination bit. The evidence is pretty forthcoming
That video actually makes a lot of very good points. If it's true, it'll go a very long way towards restoring my faith in Bioware's storytelling. Though if it's all planned, it'll also completely destroys any small vestige of integrity they had, money-wise. Unless the DLC is free. Honestly, I don't really care. I wouldn't pay extra for the ending of any other game, but Mass Effect has earned it. Emotions make people do stupid things.
Jessica Merizan who's the community manager hints at people need to think of the ending abit more elaboratively, she's under NDA for 2 weeks, so she can't spill the beans yet. But it sort of gives you an idea there's a greater scope behind the ending.
- "I just finished the game today, and just... Have way more questions than answers. Not what I was expecting at all."
- if you just finished today then I would advise that you sit down (AFK) with a warm beverage & think about it a bitSeriously.
She's already teased previous in her tweets about the indoctrination bit, and it's coming full circle on that department.
Another sidenote is 1M1 during the last course of the game. Which some people seem to have a tie-in with international release (as in, everyone has access) in which, they can release the full-access ending without anyone being spoiled (Which I don't see the point of, but then again- I'm just throwing it out there).
Whoever it is that is attempting to indoctrinate you, indoctrination still doesn't work in a few minutes.
I'm sorry, but if that's the real deal behind the ending, I find it depressing. This is on the level of "and it was all a dream!" shit endings.
EDIT: I should add that I hadn't heard about the bit where we should hang onto our copies; been on a massive blackout about ME3 from announcement up until I finished the game. This probably lends credence to the indoctrination theory (it's the only one which makes any remote sense). Doesn't mean I have to like it though.
I don't think I quite get what you're trying to say. The indoctrination is by the works of Harbinger, or let-alone just Reaper-Tech, which Shepard since he's resurrection is somewhat part of. Which is also explained I believe in one segment. (Easier to succumb to indoctrination(?)). Whateve that actually occurs towards the last 5-10 minutes of the game DOES NOT actually happend. It's the indoctrination process more or less, least that's I'd imagine.Whoever it is that is attempting to indoctrinate you, indoctrination still doesn't work in a few minutes.
Control = Become indoctrinated
Synthetic = Become a mindless servant of the Reapers (Ala, Husk)
Destroy = Destroy the indoctrination process, and fight back.
I'd find it pretty clever, since it's been a heavy-weight focus on the game, and at least it would make sense of the last 5-10 minute nonsense gibberish towards the end of the game. But alas, it's a subjective matter, and I can't persuade you to agree with me on this. However, I'd be pretty disapointed if the "presumed" DLC doesn't come around relatively soon tho, I don't think I'll be inclined to watch/read updates about the game after a month, little less later then that. It has to be quick & swift, while the game is still fresh in the customers mind. Which is why maybe the 1M1 hinted towards the end has something give players who dwell into details and specifics to give some clues and insight.I'm sorry, but if that's the real deal behind the ending, I find it depressing.
I'll quote myself then: "The Prothean AI on Thessia can immediately and accurately detect the presence of indoctrinated beings within its radius of action. This means that Shepard had no indoctrination whatsoever up until that point."
The theory of indoctrination therefore implies that Harbinger managed to indoctrinate Shepard in record time (we're speaking of a few hours/days at worst) while he wasn't even conscious. From what I know of indoctrination, this doesn't really feel like it fits.
#341
Part of the 'Indoctrination' hypothesis is that Shepard never even made it onto the Citadel - after being hit by the Reaper's beam, everything else occurred in his mind as he was being indoctrinated, up until he 'wakes up' after the 'destroy' ending.
I believe the point was that there were no trees there prior to Shepard being blasted, only appearing after he got blasted.3) I don't see what's wrong with those trees? Surely the Reapers don't give a damn about killing non-sentient beings.
Also: The Reapers have almost certainly been attempting to indoctrinate Shepard since ME1, so it isn't a sudden 'bam - you're indoctrinated' deal. Further, the Prothean VI may not be able to detect someone who is in the process of being indoctrinated, and only be able to detect someone who is fully indoctrinated; his indoctrination is only 'complete' if you choose the 'Control the Reapers' or 'Synthesis' endings.
You are correct that it's very much an 'it was all a dream!' ending, though, and thus pretty stupid. If Bioware planned this, and intended from the beginning to release a new ending as paid DLC... that's pretty fucked up. I'll certainly buy it, because I love absolutely everything else about the game, but still.
#342
Longshot but... The Prothean VI says it cannot reveal the info because of indoctrinated peeps nearby, befoe Lieutenant Bastard Kai Leng shows up. Later, on TIM's space station, it says "security override, this unit will comply", not "oh lol baddies dead here is the secret planz." On its own it wouldn't have meant anything but in context of the theory maybe.
From the Codex entry on Indoctrination: "Rapid indoctrination is possible but accelerates body deterioration". Besides, we don't don't even really know how advanced indoctrination has to be for the Prothean VI to detect it. Additionally, Shepard is not indoctrinated when talking to it (having managed to fight off the previous attempts), else the attempt at rapid indoctrination at the end wouldn't happen - Harbinger would simply flip the "on" switch.
Why indoctrinate Shepard in the first place? Simple. Remember that Reapers indoctrinate leaders to facilitate quicker organic surrender. Shepard is the galaxy's icon of resistance. If he were to go on air and throw a couple lines how the fight is hopeless or whatever, it would be devastating for morale. Simply killing him makes him a martyr.
Also note in order to survive, you have to both choose the Destroy ending (possibly to break the indoctrination attempt) AND have plenty of War Assets. Why? Perhaps in order for Sword elements to be strong enough to break through the blockade and rout Harbinger and Hammer to clear the area of Reaper ground forces. If your assets are too low, Harbinger simply blasts you again if you refuse to give in so no "Shepard breathes" cutscene.
#344
Yeah dunno why people think it is "rapid". Shepard spent a lot of time around Reapers and their tech.
I've been going through the war assets list, and with some calculations it's clear to me that I won't ever be able to get the Shepard lives ending (over 10.000 war assets purely through single player) because I'd have to play Mass Effect 1 and 2 again, buy all the DLC that I don't have and do a perfect playthrough.
Sorry, but that's just unreasonable.
#346
Multiplayer matches apply a multiplier on your war assets
Which is complete bullshit.
#348
And if it is was just a stupidly-hard SP game with no MP to speak of, people would be praising it because it actually challenged them.
Heaven forbid EA actually want people to play ME3 MP. Heaven forbid.
You don't miss out on any of the story if you don't do MP. You don't miss out on any of the ending barring a particular cutscene a la Halo 3's Legendary ending (as far as I am aware, I am doing my damned best to remain as spoiler-free as possible). You don't miss out so why are you complaining?
#349
MP actually makes sense though, you go to the places you play in MP and flush out the enemy, then they station a squad to defend it (you in multiplayer)
"Rapid" because all the previous attempts have failed (though some residue might remain, amplifying things like Sheps guilt over not saving the kid/former teammates etc). The ending sequence would be a last-ditch attempt, taking advantage of Shepard's weakened physical, emotional and mental state.
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