What point is the comic apparently missing? I want to confirm this before I jump in and assume something that hasn't actually been said.
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#601
What point is the comic apparently missing? I want to confirm this before I jump in and assume something that hasn't actually been said.
I am an Iron Warrior! Iron Within, Iron Without!
#602
Seen that comic, actually Tweeted to Gabe to avoid the last few minutes of the game to save himself from the ruination.
Somehow he likes it still?
He's a Star Wars fan, figured he'd be in for the same suffering as everyone else I know that has played Mass Effect 3 and hated the ending.
Seriously, everyone. Not a person I know in real life, or I game with or speak to with a human voice that has played ME3 has not regretted seeing that ending.
Bizarrely though, that silly ending he's made for his straw man still makes more logical sense than what we got. Hey, if it was in the game we'd actually have two endings as well!
Segway would be useful for cruising the Citadel.
Edit: Gorb, it's saying that people are unhappy with the ending because it's sad.
In reality, ME fans are unhappy with the ending because it's stupid/nonsensical/out of theme/out of place/out of character/has no real choice/fails to deliver on expectations/disregards your actions up to that point/is not what they promised the fans.
I HAS WRITTEN A BOOK!
As soon as the cover artist, proof reader and everything else I rely on other people to do is done, I'll let you know.
@FF, General Kong , Akranadas: considering Krogans somehow survived on their homeworld after the great atomic war and before the salarian intervention, its safe to say they have some form of food production, even if it is just hunting animals on their homeworld. I imagine their population is still sustainable, and in the event its not, Krogan across the galaxy are still making their way home so there should be a small but steady influx of new blood. Its hard to judge due to the unknown numbers of krogran, but I imagine enough are left on their homeworld to repopulate. Its almost a given that the earth mission is a last ditch suicide mission, I doubt wrex would have sent so many krogan there that a viable population is impossible. The Krogran also survived before Wrex, when he dies it may all go to shit, but I very much doubt the race will die out as a result.
As for the Quarians its noted that they still have the life ships, which no doubt contain substantial food sources for years if need be. Even if this isn't the case they doubtless can still farm and hunt wildlife on their new homeworld. Just because we saw a desert ingame doesn't means its like that everywhere. I'm pretty sure they have a limited amount of water, with the arable areas alongside rivers right? These doubtlessly sustain life and farm-able land, which they can develop while they live off the lifeship's supplies. The quarians have a small military and a large population btw, around 5 billion I think though it may be much much more, hardly a small population by any standards.
@Hirmetrium how can you complain about "gamer entitlement" when this issue is caused by Bioware. The rage to put it bluntly is a result of them telling us something, then delivering something different. We were entitled to what they told us they were selling, they then sold us something different. They lied about the final product and now people are pissed, I don't see how you can portray this as a flaw of the consumers and not the developers.
@Langy He didn't survive re-entry before, he had a helmet on and his body was still burnt to crap, its said in TIM's base that he was brain dead. He was char grilled, only reaper tech and 2 years of highly advanced medical techniques got him back to life. That was only possible because the helmet protected his brain. Yet we're meant to believe he fell from space with no helmet and was breathing after impact? WTF. If terminal impact wasn't bad enough, he also had to deal with re-entry with a bare head. He should have melted.
Fixer: Add "filled with plot-holes", hate or like the rest of the problems, the plot holes are the worst and don't have any excuse.
Last edited by Ewokz; 16th Mar 12 at 9:08 AM.
(Formerly "The Herald")
"The bible is like an EULA. People just scroll past everything and click "I agree" without reading it."
-Moe
#604
I'm pretty sure it's also because some people expect there to be a valiant, heroic ending where everybody lives. Given that this was commented on in the PA article I linked a page or two back, this seems more reasonable.Originally Posted by Fixer
Whether you enjoy the quality of the ending, whether it satisfies you or not . . . I don't particularly care. My flatmates hated the ending for those specific reasons. The comic also doesn't care, because the comic is talking about something else. The comic is talking about what people expected from the ending, and mocking those unrealistic expectations and/or demands.
Personally, I agree that expecting some kind of magical My Little Pony victory is at best, optimistic, and at worst, flat-out stupid. You're involved in a fight for survival, not a Dragonball Z episode. The comic mocks that (uncommon) assumption. Or those assumptions, plural. It doesn't even begin to talk about the relative depth and complexity involved (or not involved) in the ending sequences.
So you didn't like the end of the last starwars film Gorb?
A happy ending can be satisfying, we all knew billions had died to the reapers so it was never going to be 100% fun and games, a dragon age happy ending would have worked just fine.
#606
I do recall posting that the assumption the comic is mocking was an uncommon assumption. I didn't make the mistake of generalising everyone in this thread and across the Internet in one fell swoop. Of course, I realise it's hard to read the post you're meant to be replying to, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
EDIT: I may be coming across as somewhat annoyed. This is probably because I'm tired of people trying to be smart with me when they evidently didn't read what I was typing.
Incidentally, I hated the re-release of the Star Wars trilogy because Anakin's Force Ghost at the end was removed and replaced with Hayden Christensen
I was just replying to the "personally" bit not the comic bit, I agree with you that the comic was targeting a specific issue and not the ones fixer brought up.
Yep I've stayed well away from the re-releases which have changed anything in the movies.
I don't know how many of you played the Xbox version, but I have to say that the Kinect voice commands work pretty well. The companion commands are great, since the actual commands via controller don't seem to respond all that well. With voice command, they respond immediatly. But with conversations it sometimes only seems to react when you say the entire sentence out loud, but other times it seems to react to background noise. I'd stick with the controller for them and contextual commands.
Overall, I'd say it's an improvement for the combat.
But this game needs more Mako! And Shepards insane driving.
#609
I know he didn't survive before; the quotes around 'survive' were to indicate that it wasn't actual survival. As Jacob says in ME2, he was just plain dead when he was put back together by TIM, turning him into a zombie cyborg. Which is a very cool thing to be, for sure, but still.
Anyways, my point was that Shepard isn't human any longer. He's the undead, and he's got massive amounts of technology in him keeping him alive. I could see Bioware saying 'his cyborg systems totally kept him alive/made him come back to life after burning up during re-entry/etc'.
In any case, I still agree that the 'indoctrination' ending makes a hell of a lot more sense than whatever we actually got.
Well we don't exactly know what the Lazarus Project did. Maybe Shepard is still more human than cyborg... maybe he/she is more similar to a half-clone half-cyborg or maybe he/she just set the record for the longest flatlining ever.
What I don't remember is any mention of Reaper tech involved in the Project.
nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan
Its a guess Alex as they mention in the Logs that there was no way Shepard could be brought back with current medical knowledge. They then find a way, so its guessed that Shep must be filled with reaper components or ressurected using reaper tech as its the only thing cerberus has to hand that other organizations don't. There may be other reasons in books or comics that I'm not aware of.
@Langy Those components only go so far, considering the forces present during re-entry and collision with the ground, if those additions saved him from that why does he even bother wearing armour. If his face can withstand thousands of degrees and the force of hitting the ground at 120mph, he might as well be invunerable.
The implants as far as I'm aware were only to bring him back from the dead, not make him super man. I imagine a lot of the implants are just to keep his body together, while they used drugs and chemicals to resurrect him. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the process made him better than he was previously, at least not to the scale your suggesting.
Spoiler
I haven't read the entire thread, but it seems like a lot of you guys think that he somehow fell back to Earth. To me, the scene where it shows him breathing again is a sign that everything that happened after getting hit by the Reaper beam was a dream or hallucination and he is "waking up" from the failed indoctrination process (and therefore never left London at all).
Except quotes from the Bioware app about making ME3 seem to conflict with that theory, I'm still holding out a little hope for it though.
Considering Shepards both alive and under a pile of london rubble it does seem to confirm the Indoc theory.
If anyone's been dwelling with their twitter feeds and checked "The Final Hour" + Watch explanation videos of Indoctrination would really understand what just happend in the game. Also, after you've selected the three different endings, you're save is in one of the three save-categories;
- Out in a Blaze of Glory
- Unfinished
- Live to Fight Another Day
Some of their tweets has had references to movies such as Shutter Island + The 6th Sense. Let-alone, the "Final Hour" documentary even tells you that the ending has Shepard fall into Indoctrination, and lose complete control(This part of losing complete-control was scrapped however, but the point of indoctrination was not).
Pleeeeeeeeeeassssssseeeeeeee. Hell, sometimes I even wonder if people played The Arrival
It's pretty clear Bioware's ending was exactly as presented, as stated by them multiple times. If your personal fanon is that it was all a dream, more power to you, but please don't drag this out as a "they didn't mean to hurt us, they love us!" victim reasoning. It's disturbing to watch, almost as bad as that love-letter on the previous page.
@iamme
It is hardly personal "fanon". They included a scene showing Shepherd breathing again, clearly lying among rubble in London. It is merely analysis of the meaning behind BioWare's canon ending, exactly as presented. They obviously wanted to provoke a reaction and have a controversial ending, that is something nobody can deny. But, I think it is reasonable to assume that BioWare had planned the ending out in a way that future DLC would expand on. They have said that Mass Effect 3 would be the end of Shepherd's story, but that does not mean DLC can't continue his/her story in some way. Only time will tell, and it seems that evidence is mounting towards something being revealed after the game has been out for long enough.
An interesting thing to note is that the option for merging synthetic and organic life sounds a lot like what the Reapers do when they harvest various races. I thought that, along with making The Illusive Man out to be right, clearly show that there is more to the ending than most people care to read into.
You know, i think it's very possible that Bioware will go with the indoctrination ending theory thing to save face, but, why does everyone ignore that Sheppard was in the middle of the Crucible and Citadel when the explosion happened? For all we know it's rubble of the Citadel.They included a scene showing Shepherd breathing again, clearly lying among rubble in London.
@Shuma
I think it's pretty clear that the rubble is in London, it's all concrete. The Citadel is made of advanced materials.
Nobody is ignoring that. I am just saying that he wasn't actually there. I could be wrong, but I like the idea. Why would he disintegrate in all three endings only to somehow fall to Earth no less damaged than he was to begin with? I think that the rubble cutscene only plays if you chose to destroy the Reapers, which would also give more credence to the idea that he was never on the Crucible / Citadel.
Anyways, it's a moot point until BioWare reveals what they are doing next. It's just speculation until then.
Last edited by eliw00d; 16th Mar 12 at 4:01 PM.
#619
@ Gorb: It's a bit hard for someone to understand the reaction the fans are having when you, yourself have yet to complete Mass Effect 2 or 3. You don't have the history or emotional connection with the franchise like almost everyone here in the thread does, we've been with the franchise for 5 years now and played through the games countless times because we were told all choices matter so we wanted to see what choices did what later. We don't care that the ending was sad, we care about what Fixer posted:
We know the universe, we've play through the 3 games, all the DLC, read the books and probably smashed through all the wikia articles on the universe.In reality, ME fans are unhappy with the ending because it's stupid/nonsensical/out of theme/out of place/out of character/has no real choice/fails to deliver on expectations/disregards your actions up to that point/is not what they promised the fans.
#620
He is obviously super-human in some ways, such as strength (else he couldn't fire the Widow sniper rifle in ME2, which is described as being impossible for a human to shoulder-fire; same with the giant shotgun). You are correct that super-human durability isn't something he's really shown, or the ability to come back from the dead *again*, but that doesn't mean the team who wrote that crappy ending might not say he is anyways.
Well, he did survive a direct hit from a weapon that can take down a capital ship in one blow...You are correct that super-human durability isn't something he's really shown
#622
Yeah, but that laser is powered by plot logic.
If all the upgrades in ME2 are accounted for he's upgraded again far beyond what Cerberus did to him. Wasn't it unbreakable bones, untearable extra-strong muscles and super-reinforced skin all with medi-gel conduits running through?
Probably why Shepard could melee Geth Primes to death as a Vanguard in Legion's Loyalty Mission in ME2.
After watching the 'all the endings side by side' video on youtube, I got a theory about why the feck is Normandy gtfoing from Earth into Relay. When Shepard got struck down, he blacks out, then 'wakes up' and does his indoctrination thing. Then depending on his choices, we get to see him 'breathing' in a pile of rubble. Now he in a DLC does something that leads to the Normandy gtfoing from Earth with everyone on board because they thought Shep was dead. Well, that's my theory.
Assuming that's even the same weapon. It could easily be a point defense version. Judging by the cutscenes in ME1 and 3, the big anti-capital weapons are on the ends of the "legs" and under the head. Harbinger's guns during the run are all firing from the top of the ship. Probably the same gun you see on Reaper destroyers. Those may still kill you in one hit, but surviving a glancing blow (which this might be, you black out before actually getting hit) could be possible.Well, he did survive a direct hit from a weapon that can take down a capital ship in one blow...
Obviously there's no actual beam and this is all part of the indoctrination process, surely?
I mean, while we're at it.
I'm short and misanthropic. I'll bite your nipples off.
It amazes me how they manage to type so much and yet say nothing.
FriendlyFire: Why bother replying, if all you mean to do is mock those who hold an opinion that differs from yours? Seriously, it's getting tiresome.
About the whole 'hit with laser' thing...I see it as it was a very near miss and the the pressure wave+heat is what deals the damage, plus shrapnel.
Those Halcyon Days...
@Thorno:
Hahaha, i swear that's the first thing to cross my mind "he didn't even say anything!"
Anyway, i'm reinstalling Mass Effect 1 now, even if Mass Effect 3 was well, hmmm, yeah, i want to play the whole trilogy now, anyone else here doing it?
@Aesaar: Because it's divisive. The way I see it, whenever people make things like that up, they basically tell to the developers that they can get away with it. That the fans will manage to engineer something to explain inconsistencies, plot holes, poor writing, etc. This is purely from a Real Life(tm) standpoint, I have no real opinion on the hypothesis itself. What I see however is that as it gained traction, pressure on the developers lessened and people actually started expecting some sort of ace in the hole from the developers. That's giving them too much slack and too much credit.
I'm simply worried that they'll find the experiment conclusive and use it in other games. I don't want to see the same tactic used in other Bioware games because I generally like their games. I want proper endings, not "speculative" fiascos. Even if the indoctrination hypothesis ends up being verified, I don't like it. I don't want an ARG as part of my ending or however they might consider revealing the "real" ending. I want my game to have a proper start and a proper end within the box.
Again, this is nothing about the theory itself. It's quite elegant at avoiding most of the plot holes, even if it feels a bit too close to the extremely tired "and it was all a dream!" cliché. It's certainly better than the naked ending.
I get what you mean FF, if they were really aiming for the indoc ending they should have had it unlocked after the credits or something. Shouldn't be a DLC.
Its worth point out that some sort of indoc was engineered into the game before they scrapped it (at least from a first glance at the app), so it really is just fans joining the dots, not making something up. The ending does really hint at the indoc I have to admit, there's just too much evidence to assume its false when its all considered.
@langy yeah I guess, would just be terrible if they did try to explain it away with that, which I guess they are if the indoc endings wrong.
@Jonny I didn't consider the upgrades, good point. Still seems a massive stretch for him to survive punishment of that magnitude though.
Read the link Fish posted, particularly this part:The ending does really hint at the indoc I have to admit, there's just too much evidence to assume its false when its all considered.
More and more it seems that there's no big mystery, odds are that they planned on the indoctrination ending at some point(maybe) and then scrapped it, some stuff remained which they tried to cover up with other explanations(Sheppard you have PTSD!), hence the indoctrination theory having some credibility.We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.
Yeah I already mentioned that just before the bit you quoted, I quoted it above to pint it out. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on the team left some hints at indoc at the ending, the reaper "roars" in the background at select moments and the two seconds of childish smirk when you go control really stand out, at least to me. The London rubble and Shepard living is almost unforgivable if you don't think of indoc.Its worth point out that some sort of indoc was engineered into the game before they scrapped it (at least from a first glance at the app)
FriendlyFire: I understand what you mean now, and I agree. I don't like this whole thing either, and I really wish a proper ending had been included out of the box. ATM, I'm willing to cut Bioware some slack not for their benefit, but just because I don't want ME to end this way. Any other game I would have already traded in. I've lost a great deal of faith in Bioware because of this (and I'm someone who generally liked DA2). If they do it again (in DA3, for example), any of their future games I buy will be from a bargain bin.
@Shuma - I'm with you. Mainly because I finished ME3 with a save that was not mine, hence I already finished ME1 with my own decisions. Still, I romanced Liara (as I did in my very first-first playthrough) and am gonna still feel bad about not romancing Tali. Just tells you something about the immersion when you feel bad for characters, even if it doesn't really affect them or just the simple thing that it's all a game/story of which you know the end. Makes you feel even more sorry for them, knowing the shit they're gonna have to live through.
Looks like BioWare is finally trying to salvage the situation? Here's hoping they actually release something more in line with the "general" sentiment.
@Shuma: I'd begin a new playthrough, but I'm kinda opposed to the idea of forcing another Shepard and co to go through the ending again.I have a secondary ME2 femShep save ready to go, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Playing ME1 and 2 again might be a good idea, though - those are pretty much tales of hope and victory against overwhelming odds, not spacechildren and colours.
Cheers for the link, Fish.Even if PRtalk and lacking in substance, make-of-it-what-you-will, no promises - it is still much, much better than what we had before.
- sincerely, the Sign Painter
Eh, i've made my peace with Mass Effect 3 and it's ending, i didn't expect it to be good to begin with anyway. Might as well enjoy what little there is that it's good, look at it as one of those bad horror movies you can still enjoy.
#642
At what point did I complain about your reaction to the quality of the ending, or that your reaction to the quality of the ending was undeserved?
I know that you care about the things Fixer mentioned, but the comic wasn't talking about that. That was the point I was trying to get across. I mean, originally, I was talking to someone else about the comic missing the point, you see
@Gorb: Well, I didn't reply as Fixer pretty much summed up my point for me (cheers, Fixer). Maybe I took the comic out of context, but making fun of a secondary (tertiary?) issue in the entire affair seemed a bit pointless to me, so I assumed the creator was ignorant of the situation rather than making fun of a demand for a happy ME3 ending.
#644
I've found another comic that seems to sum up things much more nicely:
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...68/177/287.jpg
and now for something completely different: you know you're WAY too much into the mass effect universe when you wonder how krogan testicles are arranged, anatomically speaking.
... Okay, that's a mental image I did NOT expect to have...
I found an interesting thread on the BSN dealing with Bioware's responses from the viewpoint of an (alleged) ex PR professional.
http://social.bioware.com/forums/for...0084349-1.html
Apart from the dissection of Bioware's PR already done in that post, I noticed that these two seem to fit well together:
http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/phot...dfFJj7N-X2.jpgMeanwhile go dark and use countermeasures through third part sources to prop up your position and brand the outcry as driven by hacks, haters or a minority trying to wear out the detractors on these outlets
#648
Eh... I think suggesting that Gabe and Tycho are involved in a corporate conspiracy is probably the most laughable thing I've ever heard. Not saying Bioware might not be using such tactics, but anything coming out of Penny Arcade can't be anything but coincidental in connection, IMHO.
"Fear nothing except in the certainty that you are your enemy's begetter and its only hope of healing. For everything that does evil is in pain."
-The Maestro Sartori, Imajica by Clive Barker
I know nothing of Penny Arcade to be honest so no comment on that part, but i don't think anyone would be surprised if EA uses such tactics, in fact, i thought everyone took them for granted.
Edit:
HUh, EA is getting sued yet again:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...o-the-ftc.aspx
Last edited by Shuma; 17th Mar 12 at 6:18 PM.
#650
Interesting.
While it is true that Bioware did fail to deliver on their promise, I don't think anyone has actually managed to successfully sue someone for making bad media before.
It would be like suing George Lucas for his alterations to the original trilogy.
ME3 is fundamentally a good game with a terrible crappy ending which retroactively hurts canon. I honestly don't see this going anywhere other than being another example of exactly how strongly people feel about this ending.
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