Originally Posted by Starblade
I am an Iron Warrior! Iron Within, Iron Without!
Hey, remember how someone said here that EA will shift the blame/hate for awful ME3 ending into players hating on EA/ME3 for its depictions of gay characters in its games? Well, they totally did that, and now they're also using bots to win some poll. Taken from Reddit, no idea where it came from. What are your thoughts?
"lulz"What are your thoughts?
I'm short and misanthropic. I'll bite your nipples off.
In order to promote a fair and unbiased viewpoint on the matter, I set aside my prejudices against EA and considered the possibility that EA are being framed...
oh fuck that, seriously trololol
that said, i did consider the possibility that it could be a photoshop.
I don't hate gay characters at all, unless they're so terribly offensive they make me want to fling shit everywhere, but with what I've seen on Youtube, a squadmate who was clearly straight before suddenly being bisexual is rather completely out of the blue. Then, according to tvtropes, there's SSTEEEEEEVEEEEEEE! Cortez, who happens to be utterly useless since he ain't Garrus, Tali, Zaeed, or Grunt.
Cortez is pretty cool, obviously he doesn't get much time in the spotlight, but he's likeable. I also like that when he mentions he had a husband, Shepard reacts only to Steve's loss and doesn't give a flying fuck about his sexual orientation.
- sincerely, the Sign Painter
I think I saw that on Youtube, if that is the case, then it's done in a tasteful manner.
Can you imagine though- a response on the conversation wheel that just is labeled "WTF, mate?"
That would've caused a shitstorm in itself.
You simply can't win EA. So using bots to improve public opinion seems to be more reliable. It's like indoctrination, only much less effective.
@Misiok, there is no way in hell EA is dumb enough to use a botnet. One image (on reddit who are known to be insanely anti-LBGT for the most part) is not proof of anything.
Plus, why the hell would EA care about a silly internet poll? They are free to ignore it if they wish. There's no evidence at all that EA is behind this except one EA hater trying to prove that correlation equals causation.
Gay Cortez was handled better than Lesbian Traynor who finds EDI's voice attractive and even allows Shepard to try and hook up with her before going "Sorry Bro, I'm only into chicks". Cortez doesn't make a fuss about him being gay nor does Shepard, it's just treated as another person on the crew who lost a loved one.
Traynar (and Liara to a lesser extent. Her connection to Shep improved as the games went on, IMO) are not handled that great. Cortex (and even Kaidan) are both done much more tastefully, even if Kaidan didn't seem to be Shepsexual before.
Liara is done quite well I thought, doing a playthrough now with Liara as the love interest and they tend to keep it professional with little bits of affection, more like a real couple who's been around for a while.
I mostly meant Liara as in the first game. Her character in general improved a ton in 2.
Oh yeah, she is also clearly the 'Cannon' Love interest by the amount of detail they give her.
No, I'm pretty sure Ashley still takes the cake on that one. It could swing either way, but the most likely scenario will always be the one that doesn't upset the status quote.Oh yeah, she is also clearly the 'Cannon' Love interest by the amount of detail they give her.
"You must be swift as the coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire, mysterious as the dark side of the moon."
@Mokino - I wouldn't be so sure. Someone foresaw that EA will shift the blame towards gay characters being unliked and it happened. Now they're in full PR damage control, especially after they've won the oh-so prestigous award of America's worst company.
She's the canon love interest? I need to see how the other romances are managed, because I was disappointed how little there was. What was there was good, but unsatisfying for me.Oh yeah, she is also clearly the 'Cannon' Love interest by the amount of detail they give her.
I still haven't seen Ashley's new hair yet! And I'm not sure how I feel about starting a fourth playthrough, I tried making the third a completionist playthrough but I eventually gave up on putting that much time into it. That said I would actually get to hear Ken and Gabby speaking this time round if I were to!...No, I'm pretty sure Ashley still takes the cake on that one. It could swing either way, but the most likely scenario will always be the one that doesn't upset the status quote.
I'm also noting that my Adept playthrough is looking like it's gonna be a good 5/6 hours shorter than my infiltrator playthroughs. That weren't completionist runs. Hmmm...
I'm also coming to the conclusion there's almost exactly the right amount of xp in the game (including maximum medkit xp, completionist etc) to get from level 30 to level 60 in one playthrough. I wonder if that was intentional.
i'm not sure there's a single canon love interest, but there are LI plots that are much more pronounced for certain characters, of which the most pronounced is liara's, possibly followed by tali and garrus for each shep (particularly since multiple references are made by other characters as to tali's attraction to broshep, including by liara herself, who even mentions her as "competition" at one point).
I'm on my fourth playthrough right now myself, did all the missions and such on all of them but caught about every conversation on my second, the Ken/Gabby stuff is pretty cool I think. I got 30-59 by the end of my third campaign but I used a fair bit of medi-gel so it's probably doable, specially if there ends up being an Omega DLC.
I'm not sure how I feel about her hair. On the one hand, long, flowing hair is definitely a plus compared to butch ponytails. She now looks significantly more like a Victoria's Secret model. That said, having lived with her military get-up for so long, she almost looks like yet another anime-esque fan mod transposed onto a character simply so people could say OMGSHEISSOBEAUTIFUL. As with anything though, fans will always be hard to please.I still haven't seen Ashley's new hair yet! And I'm not sure how I feel about starting a fourth playthrough, I tried making the third a completionist playthrough but I eventually gave up on putting that much time into it. That said I would actually get to hear Ken and Gabby speaking this time round if I were to!...
There's a picture of the new Ashley in the link below:
Just finished my Adept run. Got from 29 to 60 with 3 medigels to spare. I wonder how far you can get from level 1 then, I don't know how the xp scales.
Final battle is no slouch, easier than with the infiltrator, although as the infiltrator you can solo the boss wave thanks to cloak. The battle is still punishing if you're not efficient. I'm not sure you can do it in real time, although on the rest of Priority:Earth I barely noticed a difference compared to before it, whereas I noticed the markedly increased health on enemies with my Infiltrator playthrough which made the whole mission more difficult.
Also, Warp/Throw isn't ideal for crowd control. Nor is singularity/throw, I find. Singularity is great when you've got nothing else, but when it competes with pull/throw, especially double pull/double throw, even warp/throw doesn't beat that for crowd control. It doesn't have any evolutions that make its detonations better, and both of its rank 6 evolutions are useless if you want to detonate it. Which you pretty much do, because it's there to be spammed. No point having it on a low cooldown and lose a lot of my dps if I'm going to sit there and wait for it to explode or expand. Pull/Throw is much quicker to spam than warp/throw, and with combo mastery I get to take a weapon, which is very helpful against Brutes and Banshees combined with armor weakening armor piercing/warp ammo. So, Warp/Throw beats the crap out of single targets, and Pull/Throw handles the rest. Getting two biotic detonations absolutely annihilates clusters of units, although it won't have as large as radius warp/throw. Expose evolution on Pull was very helpful for killing those cannibals/marauders instead of leaving them on low health. (They already didn't take out unprotected enemies without fail, but was consistent at it.)
This, for me, leaves Singularity... nowhere. Only one biotic detonation, but doesn't work on shielded targets. Has to compete with Warp, which works on shields, and double pull, which can grant 2 detonations, even if the pulls have to be one after another. When Shepard has it sometimes clips on terrain. I just don't see why an Adept should take Singularity, really. It's not even effective against Guardians, whereas Pull is.
@Misiok, they'd be absolute morons to try and pull a botnet off. I get it, you dislike EA but while they're definitely not the good guys they're not stupid enough to do something plainly criminal like that. Plus, it'd be extremely obvious if they did it. You're plainly in tinfoil hat territory now. It's far, far more likely to be some antigay fundie hacker or someone trying to frame EA. They're just too obvious to be EA themselves.
@Langy, both Kaidan AND Ashley were meant to be bisexual (basically all three romances were for either gender in ME1) but that was changed during development. Ash was originally going to be bi in ME3 as well (one side of her romantic dialogue is apparently buried in the game files; either her part or FemShep's)
Some executives threw shit fits when they found out someone might possibly not be straight.Actually, both the suddenly-bisexual characters were originally designed as bisexual back in ME1, they just didn't implement it for some reason.
My Interceptor is better than your Interceptor.
@Mokino - I have easier time believing it is them, because they're so lazy they outsource tech support to India or some other country where you do such stuff. And it's not even hidden well, their 'techies' just copy and paste pre-made messages hoping the ones they give you will fix your problem and/or make you go away, giving out shitty -15/20% codes for your next Origin purchase. I mean, they've done so much stuff so stupidly and wrong that I just cannot see a conspiracy theory about them/a picture and not think that it's at least mostly true.
I don't believe EA would do something as primitive, TBH. They are a greedy, exploiting corp with a penchant for running previously good studios into the ground, but not necessarily idiots.
Most larger companies outsource to India or Pakistan and its not laziness, it's cost.
You're sounding like one of those nuts who believe the government planned 9/11. EA has a lot of money riding on Origin that it'd be foolish to risk over this petition.
There's more than enough to criticise about EA without relying on rumours and speculation. I've already put this event into the backburner.
I don't really give a shit if someone writes a bot saying "bigotry is bad", especially if written for the sole purpose of saying that on an online petitoin. This is a non-issue.
e: The more I think about Legion's death the dumber it gets too. Legion's a bunch of programs, it can't die unless its out of range of a server like in ME2 if you fuck up, but Rannoch almost certainly has servers since the geth are all over it. I can buy the idea that the reaper code makes the geth better (but Legion referring to itself as I doesn't make sense because it's still a thousand geth programs), but Legion dying makes no sense. If anything you'd expect a lot more geth platforms to start saying "We are Legion".
Last edited by Starblade; 11th Apr 12 at 9:23 AM.
It's just Bioware injecting "emotional deaths" for sake of having those. Also, everything related to reapers is space magic.
But FTL travel is easily accepted, right konfeta? Nevermind mass fields, element zero (best name ever, beats unununium), biotic abilities in general (space magic if I ever saw it), etc.
What's the problem if Reapers are the anthropomorphic form of "technology sufficiently advanced so that it is indistinguishable from magic"?
The difference is that some of it is established or given some sort of explanation, the others aren't. The Reapers didn't need one, so I didn't care that they had an upgrade for the geth. The Crucible has nothing though, which makes it harder to swallow.
I'm not debating the Crucible (only just started building it in SP, personally), merely that the suspension of disbelief r.e. the Reapers is justifiable. At least, to me.
Also, today I found out that unununium exists. Oh, joyous day.
Legion's constituent programs disseminated to be shared amongst the remaining Geth in order to spread the Reaper code. Dunno how that's done but that's what they say.
For that reason, Legion doesn't die. The platform is no longer in use. I imagine that Geth programs could fill the platform if they wanted to.
Legion is the programs, but they spell out that the programs are gone. Legion can't come back because Legion doesn't exist any more, because it sacrificed itself. If your idea were what happened, then the Geth would all be Legion (which would be great actually). It feels like for the very end they forgot what the Geth actually were.
Also now that you mention it is it is kind of silly that they were still chilling in that platform with the giant hole in it anyway. You'd think the Geth would notice that eventually.
The most curious part of his death is that apparently reaper upgrades overwrite your ctrl-c with ctrl-x.Legion's constituent programs disseminated to be shared amongst the remaining Geth in order to spread the Reaper code. Dunno how that's done but that's what they say.
Oh, it's perfectly justifiable. It's just annoying when it takes a supposed sci-fi universe and tries to both create and resolve problems with space magic instead of trying to come up with something clever within the rules established before. The two just don't feel like they go together.
"They broke down their bodies into grey goo and pumped them through the tubes"
"Why are they doing this? What are they doing with our genetic material?"
Langy, you are making the mistake of believing that Bioware cares as much about consistency as the fans do. Geth AI situation wasn't done with reaper hardware upgrades. It was done with Reaper Magic (AI Code Upgrade Beam).
And if the game does have proof that reapers actually upgraded all the Geth with these black boxes, it's even worse because the reapers magicked those boxes into the Geth in the middle of the Quarian Fleet attacking them.
Yes, I know that it was a software update. Doesn't mean the Geth hardware didn't consist of quantum CPUs before, which, with the Reaper software upgrades, turned into full-on black-box AIs.
I wasn't clear with what I was saying. I meant that other Geth programs (i.e. not the ones that used to be part of Legion) could inhabit that platform if it desired. Legion doesn't really die, in that Legion is just a gestalt personality of thousands of programs. The programs disseminate, but I don't think the programs that constituted Legion are gone, just scattered (somehow).Legion is the programs, but they spell out that the programs are gone. Legion can't come back because Legion doesn't exist any more, because it sacrificed itself. If your idea were what happened, then the Geth would all be Legion (which would be great actually). It feels like for the very end they forgot what the Geth actually were.
Are we talking about Legion the gestalt personality or the Legion the one who referred to himself as "I" at the end?If your idea were what happened, then the Geth would all be Legion
I didn't know that part, but a good deal of the point of Legion and the Geth is that they are gestalt consciousnesses. The question "are they alive?" and whether or not the Reaper upgrade makes them so in ME3 is silly, because its already been answered; they already are and have been since they gained self awareness. Geth are AI, but in a different way than EDI is.Thus, while Legion is still a thousand different programs, he's also a unique individual determined by the black box that's running those programs.
Even if the geth all gained consciousness instead of an group consciousness, Legion is still a legion. There are still 1000 geth in there, with or without the upgrade. Legion was alive without the upgrades, as were the geth. I can't answer that question as such, and its why I think the writer forgot what the geth were at the very end. If all geth became conscious then that means all geth in all platforms and all programs are conscious, which doesn't make sense and is kind of disturbing to think about actually. That living being just became a thousand living beings, but they already were alive. That's the part that bugs me.Are we talking about Legion the gestalt personality or the Legion the one who referred to himself as "I" at the end?
The game pretty heavily implies (to me, at least) Legion can't come back. I'd need to play again but wasn't the word "decompile" thrown in there somewhere? Doesn't the Prime that shows up more or less confirm that? I mean otherwise Legion could just get back up, no harm done.The programs disseminate, but I don't think the programs that constituted Legion are gone, just scattered (somehow).
Last edited by Starblade; 11th Apr 12 at 10:47 AM.
Legion is exemplary when compared to normal Geth. Legion has over a thousand programs: 1183 to be exact, whereas standard geth house around 100. As such it's possible to argue that Legion was alive before the rest of the Geth were, appealing to emergent consciousness as programs are networked etc.I didn't know that part, but a good deal of the point of Legion and the Geth is that they are gestalt consciousnesses. The question "are they alive?" and whether or not the Reaper upgrade makes them so in ME3 is silly, because its already been answered; they already are and have been since they gained self awareness. Geth are AI, but in a different way than EDI is.
The "are they alive?" question needs to be expanded really. The intellect has little to do with being alive or not- individual geth platforms are on par with animal instincts. Well, my dog is alive. And so are protozoa, which have no intelligence at all (I presume). Perhaps a more pertinent a question is- are the Geth conscious/intellectual, i.e. similar or on a par with advanced, organic (for want of a better term, technically Turians and Quarians aren't organic at all) species? If your question is really whether or not they are alive you need to have a severe examination of your requirements and conditions of life.An individual geth has only a basic intelligence on par with animal instincts, but in groups they can reason, analyze situations, and use tactics as well as any of the organic races. An exception would appear to be Legion, a geth specifically designed to operate as an autonomous sentient unit outside the Perseus Veil. Legion possesses over 11 times as many geth programs as a standard geth platform and can function intellectually on its own.
Hell, you could probably program a Turing machine to exhibit animal instincts successfully enough to trick behaviourists into thinking it's an animal.
Good point. I'll need to think. I'm pretty sure the word used is "disseminate", (I learned a word from ME3, :O) but then again I could be wrong.The game pretty heavily implies (to me, at least) Legion can't come back. I'd need to play again but wasn't the word "decompile" thrown in there somewhere? Doesn't the Prime that shows up more or less confirm that? I mean otherwise Legion could just get back up, no harm done.
Last edited by Codex; 11th Apr 12 at 11:24 AM.
Legion is unique, but the geth being alive (or sentient/sapient, if you'd prefer. I was using them interchangeably even though I shouldn't) is a pretty big point brought up in ME2. It's why "kill the rebels or reprogram then" is a hard choice. It's life Jim, but not as we know it. Individual geth platforms might not be too bright, but there are stations with millions and billions of programs. Legion has a unique platform designed so it can operate by itself, but the geth were intelligent long before it came around. It doesn't change anything about what I said.Legion is exemplary when compared to normal Geth. Legion has over a thousand programs: 1183 to be exact, whereas standard geth house around 100. As such it's possible to argue that Geth was alive before the rest of the Geth were, appealing to emergent consciousness as programs are networked etc.
Does this unit have a soul?Perhaps more pertinent a question is- are the Geth conscious/intellectual, i.e. similar or on a par with advanced, organic (for want of a better term, technically Turians and Quarians aren't organic at all) species?
Where did you learn that word from? :ODoes this unit have a soul?
My head hurts now. It might be revision, it might be thinking about this too hard. I'll get back to you re: the 2 posts.
The wording the geth choose for it is either "sacrificed itself" or "dead". It doesn't quite fit for me either, but Langy's spitball of turning each geth platform into a distinct blue-box system would make the most sense. When you're in the Consensus, code seems to be just as mobile as data, so tying a personality to its platform seems the only way a geth personality could die.
Winter is coming.
re: geth: weren't the geth basically building a big ass motherfucking dyson sphere thing to house ALL their programs?
that concept always gave me the idea that pre-reaper code and individuality, the geth were in fact a single "life-form" (for a given value of life-form), or rather a single intellect, albeit divided, with each program being akin to a single neuron, and the platforms being akin to "wi-fi nerves", for lack of a better term.
and i'd say i'm 100% firm in believing that legion's death made no sense, but that would only be true in the case that geth function in the exact same way modern programming does, which would make every single function of their physical existence both known and reproduceable. if the geth were to not have complete knowledge of how their cognitive processes arise, and were thus unable to reproduce by copy-paste, then the personality dissemination might make a bit sense (say, a thousand-odd geth primes, each with a single process from legion, and all other geth processes either divided between them, or having as many as possible crammed in each until individuality parameters can be effectively copied to new platforms).
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