[SPOILERS] Mass Effect 3 Single Player Impressions/Discussion

[Codex]

Of course it doesn't prove anything. It's interesting, that's all.

[Akranadas]

It's not about proving the theory correct, but more to the point of how many want to or do believe that the theory is right.

[Starblade]

Like I said, my thoughts on what I thought the poll result would be don't really matter, I was just throwing it out there. I wonder where else they're doing this poll at? I wonder if they aren't going to use the responses to craft the DLC.

[fuggles]

This really is the beginning of Bioware being humorously indoctrinated - if enough people believe it will become canon and revealed as the plan all along just to get them out of the shit ending pickle they find themselves in.

[Fixer]

If Bioware screw up the extended cut DLC I'm willing to accept the Indoctrination Theory as 'unofficial canon'.

Accepting the current ending as it stands makes replaying the Mass Effect all but impossible for me. Suddenly Sovereign isn't some eldritch monstrosity beyond my very comprehension observing me as a giant would look down upon an insect, it's just some giant robot squid with a deep voice that's unwilling to admit it has a really stupid mission in life.

The whole 'ruthless but necessary' and 'diplomatic and hopeful' morality approach to saving the galaxy is pointless. Apparently everything about robots killing us. This also means that EDI's evolution and everything you learn about the Geth and respecting all forms of intelligence regardless of how different... also pointless. Turns out that irrational fear and bias was the correct approach.

Also pointless is gathering all those resources and saving all those people. It's possible to screw up every single mission and get your entire team killed and still get the best ending by promoting N7 members or getting galactic readiness rating.

Indoctrination theory at least keeps the game universe and story safe from the Star Child's bullshit.

On a slightly positive side. It may be hilarious to make a 'worst possible runthrough' on a Derp Shepard and still get the "best possible" ending.

No optional quests completed
Council Dead
Udina Councillor
Rachni dead, save the synthetic one so it rips apart the Alliance engineering corps.
get every squad member but Morinth killed in the ME2 suicide mission.
Keep Wrex alive so you can betray him, lose Krogan support, then kill him.
Get the Virmire Survivor killed.
Blow up the Geth in Legion's loyalty mission, kill the Quarians in ME3.
Sabotage everything you can, make stupid choices in the citadel mini quests. Anything that gives a negative to your EMS rating.
Take the only two possible survivors of your team to die on the final run (Vega and Liara)

Promote enough N7 operatives and get enough readiness rating.
Still get best ending.

[Codex]

I spoke to Hirm about trying to get my N7 high enough. I looked up the bare minimum for EMS is around 1814/2. So all I need to do is get around 3.5k for N7 operatives, and then just rush through the SP :P

[Starblade]

I know I've linked this before, but listening to it again, I think the dream sequences were really well done (ignoring the kid). The biggest problem with them is that the voice acting is great, you're only hearing it if you're a completely horrible person and got everyone killed. IT or no, I like that Shepard is starting to be worn down after two years, one death, and fight after fight.

[Codex]

I've been meaning to ask, what did people think of the kid before he became the Starchild? Did you guys really find him that jarring?

I've been thinking about this a bit, and I never found him too jarring. I think it's because I have absurdist and minimalist roots (Pinter and Beckett have been my primary influences), and I always considered him a plot device from the start. Didn't really notice that he was acting weird or not acting like a kid. At all. Not until the IT video.

[Starblade]

I found it annoying and a pretty hamhanded and poorly done way to make an emotional attachment when they could have just as easily gone with the person you leave behind on Virmire, but nothing especially offensive.

[LoneWolf666]

I found the kid out of place, almost jammed in there. HERE'S A SMALL, DEFENSELESS KID. GRIEVE FOR HIM. Er, sorry, no. Maybe if you have given me context, a few pre-invasion talks with the kid to make him likeable and THEN kill him, then I'd give a damn. Also what kind of kid doesn't jump at an opportunity to go with an adult in a dangerous situation?

It honestly bothered me that the kid recurred in Shepard's nightmares when I didn't give two shits about him - an immersion-breaking separation of player and the PC to me.

[Codex]

Hm, I wonder how jarring it would've been if I had been running the bitch renegade import: Shuma said for that reason he found the whole kid QQ stuff really jarring.

EDIT: finally started that game with new Ash. Looks so weird. I mean, Jo Lupo does something similar in Eureka, but it just looks weird for her to look like that when she's working...

[Fish Of Doom]

i was indifferent to the child, and did notice that it was a forced attempt to try to build an arbitrary emotional connection.

[Ewokz]

Same thing you guys have said about the kid, I recognised it as a hamfisted attempt at building some emotional connection, personally it felt out of place and I didn't like it.

Dreams containing Kaidens (or ashleys) death, and past events would have been much more emotional for me, missions that went wrong or people you couldn't save. Saren, Kaiden, Citadel events in ME1, Colony events in ME2, earth, maybe some memories of training, events from you characters past: ie. born on earth's streets, war hero, last survivor etc. those options you pick in ME1-3. All would have been more relevant than that annoying kid. The bio parts would also have been good from a character building point as you select that background but never really see what it was like. Building an emotional connection to those memories would have been more interesting.

[Mr Carrot]

bloody good point Ewokz, there was nearly sod all made of your character origin this time around. That would have been a great way to shoe horn it in.

[Starblade]

Besides the Spacer background leading to Hackett mentioning that Shepard's mom is promoted to Rear Admiral or whatever, are the other origins or backgrounds mentioned at all? I think Joker may have a throwaway line about Shepard's squad being killed in Sole Survivor or Ruthless after losing to Kai Leng but I think that's it.

[Thorno]

The inclusion of the kid baffles me. We have so many characters close to Shepard that could of taken it's place. On a similar subject, why did we need Kai Leng? I dont understand why they think shoving completely new characters (for me anyway, I hear he was in some comic?) into the final game, when we have such a huge amount of awesome characters already, is a good idea.

We haven't even confronted the main antagonist introduced in ME2. I was looking forward to meeting Harbinger personally and finding out why he was in love with me. Didn't care a shit about Kai Leng, or Cerberus at all really.

[Codex]

Kai Leng is in the comics, and encounters Anderson and the doctor at Grissom Academy.

[Nalkor]

Specifically in Deception, Kai Leng breaks into I think Anderson's place, eats some of his cereal and presumably takes a piss in a vase to prove how much of a 'bad ass' he is. It is Deception though, the whole thing is all kinds of retarded.

[Mr Carrot]

having cerberus as the main antagonist for the majority of the game was the biggest misstep in the general plot in my opinion. I think Kai leng would have worked as a bit of a mute special character - Cerberus in the game being a number of shadowy high level enemies that pop up every now and then to frustrate your efforts (you could have them maniulating mercs into fighting you etc.)

Instead we have "LOL we are this XBOX HUEG galaxy wide fighting force in the space of a year loool!"

[Starblade]

Specifically in Deception, Kai Leng breaks into I think Anderson's place, eats some of his cereal and presumably takes a piss in a vase to prove how much of a 'bad ass' he is.

Anderson also shoots him in all two of his legs. They tried way, way too hard to make him seem like a pretty bad dude.

having cerberus as the main antagonist for the majority of the game was the biggest misstep in the general plot in my opinion.

I like how they went from "totally broke because we blew all the space cash on Shepard and the Normandy" to "Galactic Superpower" in the course of three months. At least they sort of fixed the problem of Cerberus literally never succeeding at anything besides fixing Shepard? Sort of?

[Fixer]

I thought Kai Leng was pretty hilarious. It felt like it was TIM's attempt to a replacement Shepard.


"Leave me will you? Well i'll show you! I'll make my own Shepard and he'll be way better. He'll be a cyborg, and a ninja, he'll dress all in black all the time and will have awesome brooding angst. He'll be the coolest operative ever!

and he'll never abandon me..."

[fuggles]

What you really want is for TIM to get blown up and fly off into the sky at the end of each episode, shouting "Next time Shepherd - Next Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime".

[Akranadas]

"I've got you this time Commander Shepard" - TIM rubbing his hands together.

[fuggles]

Actually, thinking about it, Inspector Gadget was part cyborg, frequently saw a young child and kept taking orders from a grizzled old man who turned up in places he couldn't have realistically gotten too whilst going on adventures that would have killed any normal person... woah, they indoctrinated the inspector.

[Fixer]

It's entirely possible that the entire Alliance command structure was indoctrinated by the end run.

"We're going to run our entire remaining ground force into this beam of light that the Reapers have been using to transport living and dead captives."

"Wait, is that a smart idea? We don't know where this beam goes inside the citadel. We know they're processing humans and reducing them into paste... this thing might just lead into a giant blender or the beam might just disassemble people immediately. Do you have any intel at all about this whatsoever?"

"We're still sticking with the beam plan."

"There's a destroyer class reaper in the way. We're going to use tanks to kill it."

"Okay, I've killed three of these things so far. On Tuchunka tanks and air support didn't work. The only way we've been able to take them down is with a laser designator to guide an entire fleet of ships to fire at one when its eye was open, by using the mother of all thresher maws or by firing a single cain shot at one that had an AA mount on it. The fleet is entangled with the reapers, we don't have the thresher maw, Do we have any more cains?"

"Plenty, but we figure it'd be best just zerg rush it with rifles, biotic powers and these thanix missiles which are extremely hard to aim."

[Kirjava]

What you really want is for TIM to get blown up and fly off into the sky at the end of each episode, shouting "Next time Shepherd - Next Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime".

If we had some sort of e-peen enhancing kudos system on this forum I would up-vote you into oblivion.

[Caeltos]

Seriously, the whole Indoctrination thing has been in the works since good 2010. (Probably even earlier, but it's more or less bloody well confirmed back then). I honest to god do not understand why people are unable to comprehend the ending, ESPICIALLY if they've fucking played the previous game. It's so bloody well obvious for anyone who paid some sort of attention.

There's subtle stuff, then there's just god awful obvious things that should alert the player that something is amiss. With combination of subtle and obvious things, the evidence supporting Indoctrination is overwhelming, and it's quite a well delivered ending, seeing as that Bioware has succesfully made one of the most difficult end-game "boss" fights, where so many people failed, and will have to pay dearly for it. Talk about the goal of the game completely went over the peoples head when they picked Synthesis and Control.

[Nalkor]

Oh people comprehend the ending. It's a shitty Deus ex Machina that rips control away from the player and completely voids any of the moral choices made through the entire trilogy and turns the evil Mecha-Chtulhu's that Sovereign was into machines with a mission so retarded that you could turn it into that Xzibit meme.

[Starblade]

e: Actually I don't want to get back into this especially since no one bothered responding to my last few posts on it and let it drop anyway. I will just ask what the end of the game actually was. How are the Reapers defeated? What happens to the party? The ending isn't just Buzz Aldrin telling his hobbit kid (look at the proportions on that model) that sooner or later he won, is it?

Oh people comprehend the ending.

Literally the only reason I chose Synthesis was because Control sounded even dumber at the time (name one sci fi where something is brought under man's control and doesn't break free and fuck man over) and I just told the guy arguing for it less than five minutes ago "no that's stupid, kill yourself", and Destroy went out of its way to invalidate a significant portion of Mass Effect 2 and 3 just so not everyone would choose it all the time. At least I gave Joker's Hat a chance at life. It didn't occur to me I also told the guy arguing for Synthesis "no that's stupid, kill yourself" until I put more thought into it.

[Fixer]

Synthesis gets worse the more you think about it.

The "problem" is a technological singularity where organics are replaced by synthetics because synthetics can build brand new and smarter AI to replace themselves without relying on evolution and natural selection. So either the new green synthed people and robots are going to replace themselves with superior fully synthetic AI in the future or they'll be bound by the organic's slow paced evolutionary process which means that they'll supposedly make synthetics who will replace them.

In the former case you've basically sped up the total extinction of all organic intelligence by several thousand years. In the latter, you have changed nothing except leaves now have silicon circuits running through them.

Since Buzz Aldrin isn't a superintelligent cluster swarm of crystal nanomachines communicating with a newly constructed planetary promethean submechanics non-linear thought process machine via quantum entanglement... i think we can assume it's the latter.

Congratulations Shepard, you picked Synthesis and all it did was make salad taste shitty. Well done.

[fuggles]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present The Official Inspector Gadget Indoctrination Theory Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dakGmAt7lng

[Starblade]

Congratulations Shepard, you picked Synthesis and all it did was make salad taste shitty. Well done.

I like to think that after the credits everyone just sort of stands around sort of awkwardly trying to decide if they should just start shooting again or what.

[Master Chief]

Now there's an IT I can get behind.

Also if you picked Synthesis, the Extended Cut should be the Super Reapers coming to harvest the Reaper/People hybrids.

[Starblade]

Just finished the game again. I noticed that the "Destroy" ending doesn't destroy "reapers" like I thought, it destroys "synthetic life", so you also probably blew up all the VIs on all the ships in orbit. Whoops! Not getting TIM to shoot himself is a much better way of going about it. His last line is pretty good. Also, EDI vaguely hints at the synthesis ending earlier in the game where she mentions it could be possible to rewrite the laws of nature in a throwaway line.

Also I noticed that if IT is true, then they portrayed indoctrination in contradicting ways in the ending alone. The TIM scene has Shepard fully aware, and speaking against TIM, but TIM still forces her to shoot Anderson. Under the idea that indoctrination is a bunch of choices (thus the three choices at the end. Unless you didn't get enough EMS, then only one choice, which is Destroy) and you have to pick the right one, this doesn't work. Shepard had to have made the choice to shoot him (despite not being given one), but it's clear that its TIM's influence when he squeezes his hand and the trigger is pulled. TIM also wants to open the Citadel arms (if you pick the dialogue option that's basically "fine who gives a shit if you can control them just open it and turn the Crucible on"), but the Reaper influence won't let him.

I also noticed that the star child says that no organic life has been to where Shepard was at the end but there is a bulkhead with English letters and numbers on it so the star child is even more full of shit than I thought he was before.

[Nalkor]

You could use a mod to recolor the starchild shitbrown and no one would notice any difference.

[Akranadas]

Also I noticed that if IT is true, then they portrayed indoctrination in contradicting ways in the ending alone. The TIM scene has Shepard fully aware, and speaking against TIM, but TIM still forces her to shoot Anderson. Under the idea that indoctrination is a bunch of choices (thus the three choices at the end. Unless you didn't get enough EMS, then only one choice, which is Destroy) and you have to pick the right one, this doesn't work. Shepard had to have made the choice to shoot him (despite not being given one), but it's clear that its TIM's influence when he squeezes his hand and the trigger is pulled. TIM also wants to open the Citadel arms (if you pick the dialogue option that's basically "fine who gives a shit if you can control them just open it and turn the Crucible on"), but the Reaper influence won't let him.

TIM represents the indoctrinated side in Shepard's mind. it's fighting to take over Shepard's entire mind where as Anderson represents the side that is resistant to the Indoctrination, TIM shooting Anderson gives no bullet wound to Anderson; however Shepard receives a wound in the exact spot where Anderson was shot once 'Anderson' dies (not being needed anymore as Shepard defeated the first Indoctrination attempt by Harbinger).

All that stuff is explained in the Theory texts and videos. I again question whether or not that you've watch/read any of them.

Just finished the game again. I noticed that the "Destroy" ending doesn't destroy "reapers" like I thought, it destroys "synthetic life", so you also probably blew up all the VIs on all the ships in orbit. Whoops! Not getting TIM to shoot himself is a much better way of going about it. His last line is pretty good.

Destroy is also the only option with a 'negative' effect, that being the supposed destruction of synthetic life. VI's are not life, they are computer programs designed to simulate life, but are not alive like EDI or the Geth; they are not self-aware

Also, EDI vaguely hints at the synthesis ending earlier in the game where she mentions it could be possible to rewrite the laws of nature in a throwaway line.

Mordin also hints at would happen if the galaxy obtained synthesis before it was ready in Mass Effect 2.

"Disrupts socio-technological balance. All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready. Disastrous."

[Starblade]

TIM represents the indoctrinated side in Shepard's mind. it's fighting to take over Shepard's entire mind where as Anderson represents the side that is resistant to the Indoctrination, TIM shooting Anderson gives no bullet wound to Anderson; however Shepard receives a wound in the exact spot where Anderson was shot once 'Anderson' dies (not being needed anymore as Shepard defeated the first Indoctrination attempt by Harbinger).

1. The ME series doesn't render most bullet wounds or damage to the best of my knowledge (actually, the only time I can think of is with Thane). Besides, he's shot in the armor.
2. Shepard was limping before reaching TIM. Also, I just looked, Shepard doesn't have a bullet wound there either, or at least not one that wasn't already there. If you mean which side Shepard is clutching, Anderson was shot on his left side. Shepard clutches the center-right.
3. If TIM represents indoctrination then how did I convince it to kill itself? Why is that possible? Why and how am I getting the personification of indoctrination to resist against indoctrination? Also, TIM didn't shoot Anderson. Shepard did.

All that stuff is explained in the Theory texts and videos. I again question whether or not that you've watch/read any of them.

Earlier in the thread indoctrination has been explained as a bunch of "choices" given, with more and more being given to block out the "right" one, thus Control and Synthesis. In that scene Shepard doesn't have a choice, but it is more consistent with the "pounding on the glass" explanation that ME1 rolls with. Also no, I didn't watch the two hour video, I just read posts on the internet about it. Lots and lots of posts.

Since I've never read or heard a single thing about IT though maybe you can tell me how it explains away the fact that if your EMS is too low you literally do not get an option from the Star Child; you can only pick Destroy. Do the Reapers take pity on Shepard? If it's the right one and you wake up afterwards why don't you if you didn't play enough multiplayer or fetch enough quests?

Why is "destroy" being red proof of it being indoctrination when nearly every other time there is an option to kill X/not kill X, "kill X" is considered Renegade and "not kill X" is considered Paragon? Further, why does it rely on Shepard gaining awareness of the fact that he is not real and everything he's said has been due to an outside force choosing something on a wheel for him (unless you chose the gameplay option for it to auto-pick options for you)? And before you start in on it again I've only read that these statements "prove" that IT is real, but nothing explaining why or what makes them true.

Destroy is also the only option with a 'negative' effect, that being the supposed destruction of synthetic life. VI's are not life, they are computer programs designed to simulate life, but are not alive like EDI or the Geth; they are not self-aware

I would consider the death of all life on Earth a pretty big downside too, actually. And the Geth are only self-aware in large numbers before the upgrades, but were still considered synthetic life. Before, individual Geth platforms (that weren't Legion, or possibly Primes) were like animals according to the first two games.

"Disrupts socio-technological balance. All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready. Disastrous."

That doesn't strike me as synthesis so much as obtaining power before being able to use it responsibly, but on the other hand I guess it would be a pretty big clusterfuck for everyone to be half robot before being ready for that. Doesn't Replacement Mordin (Paduk Sils or something, that one salarian you meet on Sur'Kesh who goes with you if Mordin dies) say something similar too?

And to break the cycle of IT posting, replaying the game has basically cemented Tuchanka as the best part of the game for me. It's a satisfying conclusion to the genophage subplot, regardless of how you end it, or if Wrex or Wreav is in charge, it has the possibility for catastrophic failure and fuckups, and it nicely ties up a lot of character arcs in satisfying ways. Also you get to kill a Reaper by mustering a force greater than yourself like what the ending tries to do, only whereas the ending is nonsensical and out of nowhere, the ME series sets up that sandworms thresher maws can be summoned through thumpers, and ME2 shows that they already get fuckoff huge, so Kalros doesn't really come out of nowhere. It also shows that there's even hope for Tuchanka as a planet because you see vegetative life starting to regrow in the ancient Krogan city, showing that things aren't so bad off after all. Compare this to everyone being fucked and all the relays exploding at the end of ME3.

[AceRimmer]

Compare this to everyone being fucked and all the relays exploding at the end of ME3.

Do you have conclusive evidence that it was an explosion like that of the Alpha Relay in Arrival?

It'll be bad, to be sure, but hardly the end of everything. Don't understand where that's coming from, unless the extended cut shows the mass relays releasing energy, then exploding in a wave of death. It looked to me that the relays merely broke apart afterwards.

i was indifferent to the child, and did notice that it was a forced attempt to try to build an arbitrary emotional connection.

It would have worked better if more of a connection was made, like some conversations during the start of the game, instead of that. I definitely liked the representation of Shepard's mounting despair over the game over losing people, but the kid was a weak example of it. Agree completely with Starblade, I liked the dream sequences.

This really is the beginning of Bioware being humorously indoctrinated - if enough people believe it will become canon and revealed as the plan all along just to get them out of the shit ending pickle they find themselves in.

It's been too long since the game's release and the manufactured furore; 2 months to troll everyone with something that doesn't make sense and flies in the face of the trilogy's themes? Seems to me like they're putting in a lot of effort to fill in the gaps left by the ending. I enjoyed it, but am in agreement with many that some parts could be explained better.

[Starblade]

Do you have conclusive evidence that it was an explosion like that of the Alpha Relay in Arrival?

If you want to take it as that, feel free, but the devs said it's a different type of explosion (not that you would know ingame, because it is left purposefully vague so there would be lots of speculation). I meant, compare that to everyone being lost and scattered and now with zero means of reconnection. Because you blew them all up. When the devs compared it to a wasteland, they meant it. The galaxy's pretty fucked.

[Fixer]

When I first played the game I chose 'Destroy' as it seemed the only logical and moral choice. Synthesis was vague and irrational, I'd already told TIM control was stupid and it looked like a trap. "Hey Shepard, put your hands on this circuit breaker. It'll totally let you control the Reapers."

When the kid said the relays were going to be destroyed, I figured they'd be depleted, shut down or ruined somehow. There was a lecture in Arrival about exactly how much energy was contained in a relay and how dangerous it was to destroy one in the Arrival DLC. When the relays actually exploded I assumed I had just taken out Earth with a Supernova.

Then I was hit by the illogical sequence of events with the Teleporting Normandy and its crew ending up somewhere... somehow.

Getting past that, I figured I had chosen the bad ending or screwed up somewhere in the game. Maybe those Salarian re-enforcements and scientists had been really valuable. Or I rationalised that the 'most advanced technology upon which you depend' ending meant that I had effectively blasted the galaxy back the stone age. I rationalised it was a galactic EMP wave and that was why the Normandy crashed and I didn't get to see anything after... okay fair enough. Load save game.

So I loaded up again, can't remember now if it was control or synthesis... exact same thing happened.

So thinking more about it.

No matter what kind of mystical galaxy changing explosion you set out upon the galaxy it still knocks the Normandy out of the sky. One of fastest, most advanced starships in the galaxy is struck lightyears from Earth and it's engines blown apart.

I'm not going to do the maths here, but even if you were generous and said that the Normandy was in the same stellar neighbourhood at the trailing edge of the explosion, the explosive force of the relay at SOL would be several billion times more intense on Earth being a few mere AU compared to Light years.

If a top of the line ship with re-enforced diamond armour and kinetic shielding couldn't survive the blast while already travelling away from it at super-luminal speeds. What chance has planet Earth and unshielded human beings have at point blank range?

[Starblade]

If a top of the line ship with re-enforced diamond armour and kinetic shielding couldn't survive the blast while already travelling away from it at super-luminal speeds.

That can be explained as EDI being blown up like the Reapers, since she actually is part Reaper (and part moon base). Besides, if it blew up all the ships in orbit then the scene with he soldiers cheering should immediately have ended with the Destiny Ascension landing on them as everything gets knocked out of the sky. The idea is that through space magic, it picks and chooses its targets and doesn't affect anything else (unless you chose synthesis, in which case it affects everything up to and including hats). I think a much better question is why Joker and everyone Shepard has ever known and is fully devoted to Shepard suddenly become gigantic cowards and run away.

[Ewokz]

That part really did bug me, you'd assume that when harbringer and its buddies broke off for earth the normandy would have done the same, instead joker just went "oh fuck were screwed" and bolted.

The worst part of the game for me personally after having played it again is the beginning, its a simple annoyance too. How the hell does the Normandy not get shot down in the middle of Denver? It literally makes no sense, you sit there and watch two smaller craft get blasted to the ground but the reapers just ignore the super advanced ship sitting next to them. What makes it more annoying is that the dialogue doesn't even register the risk they are taking by being there, it should be a really really fast extraction but instead you have a chat with Anderson. Its a really ill thought out moment of the game and playing it back it stuck out like the sorest of thumbs.

[AceRimmer]

I wondered as well as to why the Normandy ran, but a simple explanation that comes to mind is that Hackett may have ordered a retreat during the time you spent talking and deciding how to activate the crucible. Again, speculation, since we don't know what's happening to anyone other than Shepard. It's the hand we're dealt with, but we need more juicy cards.

I don't think the galaxy's stuffed completely either. Certainly, the races are cut off from each other. They certainly didn't suddenly transplant either to Earth (that would be the end in that case). There is still each cluster to explore with conventional eezo drive cores, which is certainly possible as we know from the games. Galaxy's still mostly unexplored. Plus, the Protheans managed to build a mass relay, who is to say that can't be learnt either?

To be sure, it will be very HARD times for awhile, but not an apocalypse.

[Codex]

I haven't played that sequence recently, but I have played the opening sequence of ME2, yesterday in fact, to show a friend. The thing to note is: exposition, exposition, exposition. Especially for those new to Mass Effect. They fit in a lot of exposition into the opening sequence (in ME2, Jacob, Wilson, and then Miranda) while teaching you controls and basic gameplay. So in ME3 you've just talked to Anderson, learn who this guy is, and then OH SHIT he's staying behind. As in all Bioware games, you get a squadmate who gets left behind or dies. (ME1- Jenkins ME2- Wilson, ME3- Anderson, KOTOR- Ensign whatshisface, etc...)

Anyway, exposition and emotional string pulling. When else are you going to fit in the sad goodbye with Anderson?

[Ewokz]

Just prior to the Normandy's arrival would have been apt.

They were one of the most hostile places in the whole series yet they all just stand around and chat, when its amazing the Normandy even made it to the LZ. Even a super fast extraction would be stretching the odds to the limit of believability. I know ME has a habit of having conversations in the worst places but this one was on another level of annoyance for me, party because of the unlikeness of it but also because the behaviour of everyone didn't reflect the situation they were in.

[Starblade]

I wondered as well as to why the Normandy ran, but a simple explanation that comes to mind is that Hackett may have ordered a retreat during the time you spent talking and deciding how to activate the crucible. Again, speculation, since we don't know what's happening to anyone other than Shepard. It's the hand we're dealt with, but we need more juicy cards.

We can tell he didn't order a retreat because when choosing which ending you want you can see the Reapers continuing to beat the shit out of Sword/Shield fleet in the background. Besides, there's nowhere to retreat to.

Plus, the Protheans managed to build a mass relay, who is to say that can't be learnt either?

The issue isn't that, the issue is that it takes two relays. So they have to go from point a to point b, meaning no matter what, they have to make a relay from scratch (with zero information on them, or anything to reverse engineer, because they all blew up and virtually nobody bothered up to the events of ME3), and have to go to the other place on standard FTL to put it in position. Which can't go more than a few systems without overheating and killing everyone or running out of fuel. The Protheans had a galactic empire to build that prototype, something the current cycle doesn't have.

To be sure, it will be very HARD times for awhile, but not an apocalypse.

This is like saying Fallout didn't have an apocalypse because the world went on afterwards. ME4, if Bioware changes their minds on moving forward will take place in the post-apocalypse. A few places will be less fucked than others, but the setting is done with.

[Ewokz]

Its more than a few systems, its entire clusters of systems. Even with the relays gone transport can be forged across the galaxy it'll just take years. I can imagine that ships will built that focus on refining element zero as they travel, allowing them to add to their fuel as they make voyages.

Of course relays would then have to introduced later, if possible. The archives on mars or other places might help out but I doubt it for a few reasons. It's possible the reapers drive engines could be reverse engineered, unless the space magic completely dissolved them instead of just killing them.

If you went control the relays on the citadel should also still be in existence. So should the one on Illios regardless of what happens.

[AceRimmer]

All good points; obviously anyone who suggests it'll be all roses with the cycle broken has rocks in their head. But it's not the end of everything either, as Ewokz has explained and there's massive scope for expanded universe fiction, games and so on.

[Starblade]

If you went control the relays on the citadel should also still be in existence. So should the one on Illios regardless of what happens.

I thought the Citadel and the Relays blew up on all three endings?

But it's not the end of everything either, as Ewokz has explained and there's massive scope for expanded universe fiction, games and so on.

It's not so much that its the end of everything that it is an entirely different setting. The only thing I could think would work if they did decide to do a future sequel would be to have it set several hundred/thousand years later after a rudimentary network between places has been set up, examining how different races coped (some Asari and the Geth would even still remember it) and how the galaxy is getting along, unless you focused it on a single system and showed how the different races are trying to deal with their new situation. Good luck managing all the import options with those though.

[Akranadas]

Apparently they are only 'damaged' in the control ending.