[SPOILERS] Mass Effect 3 Single Player Impressions/Discussion

**Misiok** · 30th Mar 12 2:24 PM

This is apparently from Mass Effect 1. How did we not see this coming, I wonder?

**Codex** · 30th Mar 12 2:34 PM

I never had the time to read all the entries. I always start with good intentions but give up.

In case someone wanted a second source:

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Klencory#Mass_Effect

Also I'm not sure why they put a picture of the catalyst. Are they saying the vision was of the catalyst?

**Nalkor** · 30th Mar 12 2:38 PM

I'm willing to bet those synthetic machine devils are actually the Reapers. "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite" indeed. Just further disproves the whole starchild AI bullshit. Oh, plus saying the Catalyst was such a being due to one bit of a codex entry that doesn't even fit makes no sense. Synthetic Machine Devils? Again, sounds like Reapers, and the beings of pure light protect organics from them? Didn't the Starchild itself say he created them?

IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.

**Akranadas** · 30th Mar 12 2:39 PM

Protect Organics from synthetic machine devils they created?

It's more likely it was a VI like Vigil from an extinct race

**Codex** · 30th Mar 12 2:44 PM

That's what I thought. The machine devils are probably the Reapers, if anything, but the Catalyst isn't referenced there.

**Thorno** · 30th Mar 12 3:56 PM

Spoiler

Our ending doesn't make sense... YET!

**Nalkor** · 30th Mar 12 3:59 PM

Fucking really? That is some bullshit. I'm glad Brent Knowles left when he did.

**Codex** · 30th Mar 12 4:13 PM

Really depends on what the poster means. Perhaps he was referring to the specific case of why your crew ends up on the Normandy travelling via Mass relays, in which case that can be very easily explained with extra content.

**Thorno** · 30th Mar 12 4:36 PM

I think he meant the case of the teleporting crew members. Which is even more strange now as I'm pretty sure one of the devs comfirmed the two that were with you when Harbinger hit died.

**Codex** · 30th Mar 12 4:52 PM

Which is even more strange now as I'm pretty sure one of the devs comfirmed the two that were with you when Harbinger hit died.

Source please? I don't keep up with dev chat that much so it'd be good to see some official info.

I think he meant the case of the teleporting crew members.

As in teleporting onto the Normandy? Sorry, now I'm confused. They're asking how they ended up on the Normandy, considering that they're with you when you fire those thanix missiles? I wasn't aware there was any info on what your allies were up to after that moment, but it does seem odd that they weren't near Earth.

**Thorno** · 30th Mar 12 5:01 PM

I'll try and find it. I'm pretty sure I didn't make it up... pretty sure.

As in teleporting onto the Normandy? Sorry, now I'm confused.

For example: I took Tali and Garrus on the run to the conduit, we got beamed and in the ending cutscene Joker, followed by Tali and Garrus emerged from the Normandy.

**Saberdark** · 30th Mar 12 5:06 PM

This is apparently from Mass Effect 1. How did we not see this coming, I wonder?

That was actually the first thing I thought of when I saw the shaft of light coming down when Shepard is trying to activate the crucible. Very disappointing to find out what it really was.

I recall seeing that the party members you brought with you died as well, but I believe that was only in a deleted scene.

**Codex** · 30th Mar 12 5:08 PM

I'll try and find it. I'm pretty sure I didn't make it up... pretty sure.

Thanks in advance.

For example: I took Tali and Garrus on the run to the conduit, we got beamed and in the ending cutscene Joker, followed by Tali and Garrus emerged from the Normandy.

Yeah that's what I thought we were talking about. But... you don't run with your allies to the Conduit. I recall being alone for this section. They must've been held back or told to do something else. I guess the Normandy and her crew were told to bug out or something. Doesn't really make much sense but at least it'll be possible to write something to explain that.

**Fish Of Doom** · 30th Mar 12 5:11 PM

the squadmates were planned to have died from the beam, according to what people reported from the final hours app (there's a video somewhere with the deleted scene of them getting pwned by harby). dunno what they're going to do about the current state of the thingy, though.

**Starblade** · 30th Mar 12 5:16 PM

If your war asset score is low enough you see their dead bodies. The ending scenes are bugged though so they'll show up anyway. So will EDI, actually, even if you chose Destroy.

**Thorno** · 30th Mar 12 5:24 PM

As Fish of Doom said, it's apparently from the Final Hours app thing. So I didn't totally imagine it.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to.../index/9999272

**Codex** · 30th Mar 12 5:33 PM

So do they or do they not die in the game? I don't like the idea I killed Liara off just because she's my favourite squadmate. I'd bring James instead. I read the link, thanks for that.

**Fish Of Doom** · 30th Mar 12 6:10 PM

no one knows yet, afaik.

**FriendlyFire** · 30th Mar 12 6:13 PM

I brought James on the last mission

**Starblade** · 30th Mar 12 8:24 PM

They're supposed to be dead but they didn't really pay attention to that fact when making the ending cutscenes.

**Codex** · 30th Mar 12 8:34 PM

So a ghost Liara walked out of the Normandy. Nice.

**Codex** · 31st Mar 12 7:51 AM

Maybe it's because I specced so much for damage of powers, but Grissom Academy on Insanity was very difficult. The battle with lots of Centurions, lots of Engineers, lots of turrets, an Atlas with a smattering of Troopers, that was painful. Garrus's overload isn't currently very strong, but thank god I had energy drain, which helped immensely. Warp/Throw was still potent, but since only I have Throw I don't want to be having Liara use Warp. The cooldown is far too long. I found it was much more effective to use Energy Drain to take down 90% shields, shoot off the rest of the shields, and use Singularity+ Throw to exploit the very short cooldowns. Warp/Throw just got me killed as I got swarmed by shielded enemies.

I think part of the difficulty is the lack of upgraded, later-game weapons.

**konfeta** · 31st Mar 12 9:09 AM

Warp can be taken down to a 2 second cooldown O_o. How is that too long?

Also, did anyone do a Renegade import? I remember Bioware stating that Bioware/Renegade playthroughs would become divergent storylines, or was another aspect of the game cut?

**Codex** · 31st Mar 12 10:01 AM

Oh wow I didn't check the Warp cooldown. I just assumed it was really very long because Liara's takes ages. Well, then perhaps I should stop taking Liara. I'll see how soloing Warp/Throw goes.

**Akranadas** · 31st Mar 12 4:31 PM

If you max cool down and take a pistol, its 2 seconds.

**Stingra** · 31st Mar 12 6:21 PM

Kai Leng stop blowing up floors and die to my bullets, I have to go save/die on Earth.

Also the hanger fight at the Cerberus HQ, I was sniping the ATlas mech after blowing the station open with the fighter and I just about lost my shit when a Cerb troop stole the mech I had disabled before I could get to it and two more came stomping out from the side doors.

That was the most intense fight ever, especially since I was out of medigel and EDI and Garrus were pretty much insta-killed whenever I would revive them.

**konfeta** · 31st Mar 12 6:32 PM

Ugh, shields stop one shot kills on sniper rifles?

That, like, takes out all the fun out of playing a sniper.

**Nalkor** · 31st Mar 12 7:56 PM

How does a shield stop one-hit kills on a sniper rifle like the widow? It makes no goddamn sense, but hey, it's Mass Effect 3. LOTS OF SPECULATION.

**Starblade** · 31st Mar 12 8:11 PM

It only happens on higher difficulties. On multiplayer at least, with Bronze and Silver the shot will penetrate shields.

**Codex** · 31st Mar 12 8:12 PM

Ugh, shields stop one shot kills on sniper rifles?

That, like, takes out all the fun out of playing a sniper.

Only on Insanity. On Hardcore you can OHK through it.

Even on Insanity the underlying health is kinda squishy on those units- Centurions Marauders etc, so Insanity just makes it harder for you. I estimate that a Marauder has almost double the shields as it does health. You just have to soften up the shields with Overload or Energy Drain and they'll be susceptible to the one-shot kills again. On Insanity the enemies mark you quickly as a target so it's hard to aim with a sniper rifle with all of them riddling you with bullets. As Infiltrator you have tactical cloak which makes it easy to line up shots, although goddamn Nemeses and Phantoms are so elusive, so I always keep Stasis handy to pin the bitches down. Soldier has Adrenaline Rush as well to make things easier to aim, so it's feasible to skip the concentration mod and just go for the extended barrel and armor piercing mod, because that extra oomph is exactly what you need against those hardened enemies. Then their shields/barriers are not much of an issue. I would definitely recommend disruptor ammo as well as it helps to OHK through the weakened shields/barriers. Otherwise I don't suppose you'll be using sniper rifles, those classes have chances to seriously buff sniper rifle damage and ease of aiming that actually make sniper rifles worth using on Insanity.

A technique that I find helps though is if you're in cover you can line up the crosshair on their head, right click and quick scope a headshot, and then duck back into cover. It works really well with the Black Widow because it somewhat mitigates the recoil experienced by remaining zoomed in. As a Infiltrator as well you get to benefit from the time dilation each time you scope.

**konfeta** · 31st Mar 12 8:15 PM

You just have to soften up the shields with Overload or Energy Drain and they'll be susceptible to the one-shot kills again.

That is by definition no longer a one shot kill.

What's the point of getting the biggest, baddest, and funnest sniper rifle if it is like 3 times overkill on regular mooks and can never kill the things its actually supposed to be used for in one hit? It's a cheap gimmick from the ME2 school of bad game design.

**Codex** · 31st Mar 12 8:21 PM

But then it's Insanity difficulty. I don't see why they can't make Insanity artificially difficult for those who want a challenge.

This difficulty level is intended for players seeking the ultimate challenge.

That is by definition no longer a one shot kill.

Well, I meant one shot from the sniper rifle. The sniper rifle shoots after all, and abilities are not shot.

**konfeta** · 31st Mar 12 8:27 PM

I started an infiltrator to get away from the tedium of power spam. This is the problem - not the difficulty (ME3 is the easiest in the series so far), but about Bioware arbitrarily killing off a playstyle as if they haven't paid attention to ME2 biotics situation in the slightest.

Literally nothing else is affected by this no damage overflow on shields restriction. It's like Bioware looked at its playtests, "oh look, Vanguards are one shotting things with shotguns, Adepts are one shotting things with Warp Explosions, but Infiltrators one shotting things with Sniper rifles? Can't have that!"

**Codex** · 31st Mar 12 8:42 PM

I'm not very far through my Adept playthrough at all, so I don't know if Adepts can one-shot Marauders with Warp/Throw. And they're doing that with shotguns on Insanity? Which shotguns? Hm, I want to check if Infiltrator+ Geth Plasma Shotgun one shots Marauders/Centurions. I'll get back to you.

ME3 is the easiest in the series? I dunno, I've found ME2 easier myself. For example I've never had an "OH SHIT REPEATEDLY DYING" moment in ME2, not even on Insanity, but ME3 has given me a few of those moments. Then again I've only seen but a small part of the SP experience class-wise.

**konfeta** · 31st Mar 12 8:52 PM

Well, Biotic combo doesn't truly kill shielded enemies in one detonation, but it knocks them down and one shots everything around them that is not shielded - more CC/AoE oriented, but still absolutely insane. Shotguns do comparable damage to sniper rifles, but because they fire a spread of pellets, they only lose damage on one of the pellets due to the overflow restriction.

ME3 gameplay is overall better designed than ME2 IMO (you are not allowed to be as comfortable behind cover, enemies more intelligent, etc.); but it really does feel easier because enemies are markedly less accurate at longer ranges and because the cooldowns are so low.

**Fish Of Doom** · 1st Apr 12 3:08 AM

so blizzard and notch have both been sniping at the endings with their april fools jokes

http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/supplydepot/

Multiple color coded and unfulfilling endings!

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/supplydepot/

Multiple endings, each influenced by your choices and color-coded for your convenience! (Further epic endings planned for post release as downloadable content.)

http://marseffect.net/

GAME FEATURES

The game is still very early in development, but here is a list of things we hope to include:

Hard science fiction.
Lots of engineering.
Fully working computer system.
Space battles against the AI or other players.
A game ending that makes sense.
Abandoned ships full of loot.
Waist high walls.
Seamlessly landing on planets.
Advanced economy system.
Mining, trading, and looting.
- Notch

**Codex** · 1st Apr 12 7:40 AM

I started an infiltrator to get away from the tedium of power spam. This is the problem - not the difficulty (ME3 is the easiest in the series so far), but about Bioware arbitrarily killing off a playstyle as if they haven't paid attention to ME2 biotics situation in the slightest.

It's like Bioware looked at its playtests, "oh look, Vanguards are one shotting things with shotguns, Adepts are one shotting things with Warp Explosions, but Infiltrators one shotting things with Sniper rifles? Can't have that!"

Slept on it and thought about this.

I don't think it's an arbitrary decision at all. The biggest baddest sniper rifles are, as you say, overkill on the small guys. So by its nature Infiltrator and Sniper Rifles in general are weak on crowd control, but good at single targets. So you need some crowd control, and a backup weapon like a lightweight SMG or a powerful pistol. You shouldn't really be sniping the weaker guys, since it's a waste of time and ammo. I used Squad Cryo Ammo for my crowd control, but I also took biotics. The fact that snipers no longer OHKs Marauders/Centurions on Insanity doesn't make the sniper rifle poor at what it does. Snipers have a good advantage of being able to take out even hardened targets at very long range, while being sometimes completely out of harm's way.

Pros:
Infiltrator: Cloak means that Infiltrator can use squadmate abilities that can't miss around all sorts of terrain, even so much that as an Adept you couldn't curl a Warp/Throw around it. Infiltration is a get out of jail free card.
Adept: Power spam= lots of dead things. Fantastic crowd control.
Vanguard: Can kill a lot of things at close range very quickly.

Cons:
Infiltrator: Cloak stops hp/shield regeneration. Needs to exploit and constantly hit through tactical cloak to get the most out of dps. Cannot OHK through shields.
Adept: Cannot cloak, squishy, so always under attack. Working through multiple shielded enemies is hard work and slow.
Vanguard: High Risk High Reward. If you miss with your shotgun, or you get staggered, or you get caught by a Banshee, you're dead.

That said, I haven't tried a Vanguard/Shotgun playthrough on Insanity, but I can't imagine it being easier than Infiltrator. Infiltrator has tactical cloak which is pretty much a get out of jail free card when used correctly, gives a massive damage boost, and recharges quickly. Further, it gives him a tactical flexibility that I miss. A lot. It says in the tooltips that enemies on higher ground can shoot you when you're hiding in cover. I never had any trouble with that on my infiltrator playthrough because I was rarely in cover- I was always just using cloak to weaken enemies with abilities/ biotic detonations before shooting and leaving again.

Further, Insanity is meant to be really difficult. On my Adept playthrough, when things are going right, they go really well. But if things go wrong, they go horribly wrong. Shepard is quite squishy on Insanity, especially without NG+, I've found. I imagine something similar with shotgun heavy characters- if things go wrong you're fucked. However, Infiltrator has Tactical Cloak and can usually keep fighting after you've moved. For reference, I only died once in the whole playthrough prior to the final Priority:Earth battle on Insanity as an Infiltrator, thanks in no small part to the Tactical Cloak.

For me, if you allow OHKs on Marauders/Centurions, from the safety of tactical cloak+ very long range, the game becomes much much easier. It's easily possible to headshot a Marauder at a range that exceeds ability auto targeting. So if you allow OHKs on those units, how hard is the game going to be? Compare this to the situation with biotics/Shotguns. Shotguns you're at really close range, so if you fuck up you're dead. Biotics you never cloak, so they never stop targeting Shepard. When Shepard stands up to do a Warp, I usually get a volley of bullets to the face, leaving me with less than half shields. Compare this to infiltrator, who can do things from infiltration at leisure and really take his time given enough crowd control options.

Think vs Reapers. You bring Crowd Control, which handles husks and Cannibals, and you get to OHK Marauders. Which leaves you Ravagers/Harvesters, which you counter easily with your sniper, and Brutes and Banshees. I dunno, if these are the only things you can't OHK, the game's getting positively a lot easier.

Anyway, if you don't want to power spam, I don't think Insanity+ Infiltrator is for you. IMO most classes are going to be difficult to play as without exploiting teammate abilities, and Soldier has equally good ways of exploiting the Sniper Rifle (Adrenaline Rush) without having to spam/combo lots of other abilities. On Hardcore you can OHK through shields, and it's still a challenging difficulty. For me, Insanity is meant to push you to optimise as much as you can- and that includes using Squadmate abilities (call it spam if you like). At times when I'm tired and Insanity is... well, insane, it's because I haven't been optimising squadmate ability use. If that's not to your taste, change class or difficulty. Soldier is a good choice for that.

TL;DR
OHKs from long range with snipers on Centurions/Marauders/Geth Hunters/Nemeses would make Insanity less than Insane.
Infiltrators have a wealth of other advantages, and Adepts/Vanguards have their own cons that I think balance it out. With Vanguards, I don't want to be charging in just to be a sitting duck. I want to be able to rape a lot of stuff. For example, it's insane how easy it is to take out unarmored enemies with Stasis+ sniper rifle headshot. Try doing that without Infiltrator or Soldier. You can't do enough damage to make that combo work nearly as effectively.
Don't play Insanity if you don't like the mechanic.

**konfeta** · 1st Apr 12 8:00 AM

Your cons for Adepts/Vanguard are not honest. Shielded enemies are not hard or slow work for adepts. Biotic detonations are so hideously overpowered you are actually wasting time if you are shooting when you could be throwing out a power (unless it's a big, fat target like Banshee or Atlas where you can do both at the same time). Vanguards... just lol. Charge was buffed so hard. Free damage reduction after completing a charge, charge cooldowns can go even lower than before, trollnova, and charge detonates everything (any form of CC + charge = kaboom).

The fact that snipers no longer OHKs Marauders/Centurions on Insanity doesn't make the sniper rifle poor at what it does.

Of course it doesn't, it's still highest DPS and longest range weapon. But.... it takes all the fun out of optimizing the bullet:damage ratio for sake of one shot kills. Mass Effect is essentially a power fantasy game, and sniping is deprived of that for logical targets on Insanity. That is the root of my complaint. Not that snipers suck.

Amusingly enough, if you do take Energy Drain to bypass the shield restriction (instant, can use while scoping/cloaking), for the price of annoyance of having to strip every single shield before shooting you are actually railroaded into an even more overpowered version of sniper playstyle, the one where you wipe out Infiltrator's lack-of-shields weakness and become a long range tank. Nifty, but meh.

**Codex** · 1st Apr 12 8:52 AM

Well, I honestly can't say until I've played the game through with Vanguard, as I say. And perhaps it's just because I played Insanity on NG+ for Infiltrator, but I found Infiltrator was powerful enough without OHKs, and is downright easy with Stasis as a bonus power. Hell, if you take Black Widow X with Armor Piercing and Extended Barrel+ 90% cloak damage+ 40% sniper damage on cloak upgrade+ 25% weapon damage armor pieces+ 15% headshot damage armor pieces+ Glyph's terminal upgrades etc etc you can take down a Brute in a matter of seconds. The Brute rush on Tuchanka didn't even touch me.

I think you're underestimating what the Infiltrator brings to the table. For me, if you could OHK Marauders/Centurions/Hunters then it would simply be easy mode. If Biotics/Vanguard is as powerful as you say (and I do believe Adept is, based on my experience of Human Sentinel in MP) then perhaps this is an issue with those classes being too easy on Insanity, not that Infiltrator's inability to shoot through their shields is bad design. There have been multiple references in this thread and the MP one stating how the biotic detonations ignore difficulty modifiers.

Of course it doesn't, it's still highest DPS and longest range weapon. But.... it takes all the fun out of optimizing the bullet:damage ratio for sake of one shot kills. Mass Effect is essentially a power fantasy game, and sniping is deprived of that for logical targets on Insanity. That is the root of my complaint. Not that snipers suck.

That's not true. Your logical targets with a powerful sniper rifle are anything that isn't a trooper, husk or Cannibal. The reason for your complaint is your preconception that the biggest baddest sniper rifle should OHK the weakest of your logical targets. But I don't see any justification for this, given that you have all the advantages given above.

Amusingly enough, if you do take Energy Drain to bypass the shield restriction (instant, can use while scoping/cloaking), for the price of annoyance of having to strip every single shield before shooting you are actually railroaded into an even more overpowered version of sniper playstyle, the one where you wipe out Infiltrator's lack-of-shields weakness and become a long range tank. Nifty, but meh.

Both Stasis and Energy Drain make for ridiculous Bonus Powers for infiltrator. Especially as they can be changed at will.

it takes all the fun out of optimizing the bullet:damage ratio for sake of one shot kills.

I think it's a matter of taste, then. I don't find one-shotting everything fun, but I do find optimising everything fun. If optimisation involves weakening shields before taking the shot then that's still fun for me. Hell, I remember Dragon Age: Origins, when I wasn't very good at RPGs and optimisation at all. I remember my first Diablo II game where I didn't understand optimisation for shit and I got rank 1 in all powers. But yeah, I died a LOT in DA:O, and had to give up on my first Human Soldier playthrough because I failed tons and got stuck. The next time I picked it up though I finished it on the difficulty above that, and on my second complete playthrough I optimised everything further and got through Nightmare without any trouble whatsoever. Optimisation was indeed fun, but the lack of difficulty was not.

**konfeta** · 1st Apr 12 9:04 AM

The consensus on Bioware forums seems to be that Insanity is too easy overall for all classes, especially if you import and have 3 maxed out powers before Pavalen.

That's not true. Your logical targets with a powerful sniper rifle are anything that isn't a trooper, husk or Cannibal. The reason for your complaint is your preconception that the biggest baddest sniper rifle should OHK the weakest of your logical targets. But I don't see any justification for this, given that you have all the advantages given above.

Justification is relative. If other classes can do the same lulz-antics on Insanity as on any other difficulty, why are Infiltrators (well, sniping builds in general) deprived of that particular entertainment? If other classes are allowed to optimize for specific thresholds such as one shot kill on a power combo or a shotgun shot; why sniper rifles are arbitrarily deprived of it on enemies who are basically regular mooks with a shield bar? Why even have weapons like the Widow if lower end sniper rifles perform virtually identically (similiar DPS on heavy targets, one shot kill on mooks, 2 shot kills on protected) but have better reload/weight/ammo capacity?

Surely difficulty isn't it - if Biwoare was concerned about difficulty for snipers they wouldn't have allowed you to stack so much time dilation or let you have Tactical Cloak be a get out jail free card.

At this rate I am switching to a shotgun/CQC Infiltrator build.

I think it's a matter of taste, then. I don't find one-shotting everything fun, but I do find optimising everything fun.

Removing shield overflow restriction would hardly make you one shot everything. But it would give heavier sniper rifles a reason to exist. As it stands, the best sniper rifle is one that is doesn't run out of ammo killing the fodder. I don't know what kind of disadvantages should be fair for something like the Mantis or the Widow or the Javelin, but basically negating the point of their massive damage per bullet shouldn't be it.

**Nalkor** · 1st Apr 12 9:06 AM

Konfeta, any game that allows previous savegame imports or NG+ while holding onto your powers can trivialize most difficulty period. This was most evident back in the 90s with Chrono Trigger. Of course, if Sniping is as bad as you say on Insanity, then someone at BioWare fucked up bigtime.

**konfeta** · 1st Apr 12 9:23 AM

Sniping isn't bad on insanity, it's just less fun. Why stack all them +% damage bonuses or equip higher damage rifles if they are wasted on 99% of the enemies you face? I can see maybe on body shots, but, really, time dilation makes getting headshots as easy as clicking the ME3 icon on your desktop.

In case the stupidity of shield overflow hasn't sunk in - if the enemy has even 1 bar of shields left, it will still block all of the damage on the sniper shot even if there was enough to kill a bloody reaper. That just feels wrong on so many levels. They could have at least allowed equipping the appropriate ammo power to restore the overflow.

As for power imports trivializing games in general, well, I haven't played enough of those. That really should only be an issue if power imports are allowed without a balance swing on the enemy side. Mass Effect 3 enemies scale with your levels, no? They did in ME2, which actually made some builds more difficult to replay in a NG+ as you started on level 30 without any upgrades.

**Langy** · 1st Apr 12 10:04 AM

You stack all those +% damage bonuses/etc so you can take out high-HP targets easily - things like Brutes, Atlases, and Ravagers. You don't do that in order to hit cannon fodder like cannibals or troopers.

As for shields stopping damage overflow - it's nowhere near as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. Sure, you need to put in two hits to kill a Centurion or Engineer, but so what?

**Nalkor** · 1st Apr 12 10:27 AM

Are the AI Engineer Turrets as bad as tvtropes says? Something about stripping shields in a second of fire and just two seconds of exposure equals death? If so, that sounds pretty lame to me. Brutes and Atlases sound pretty self-explanatory to me, but what is a Ravager? Is it the Rachni-Reaper I read about earlier or is it something else?

**Gorb** · 1st Apr 12 10:42 AM

In MP, Engineer Turrets are evil and death and AS SOON AS YOU SEE A COMBAT ENGINEER YOU KILL HIM DEAD. Usually with over-excessive force - just to make sure.

I'd imagine this translates to SP as well.

**Codex** · 1st Apr 12 10:44 AM

if the enemy has even 1 bar of shields left, it will still block all of the damage on the sniper shot even if there was enough to kill a bloody reaper.

Not quite true. I can shoot through anything around <40% shields and kill them if I have disruptor Ammo. I think I might go back and check, because I'm a bit confused about the required values because the final fight on Priority:Earth give much tougher enemies in general, so I don't think it's a percentage but rather a raw number thing (I need to do x amount of excess damage before I can one hit kill through the shields.)

Why stack all them +% damage bonuses or equip higher damage rifles if they are wasted on 99% of the enemies you face? I can see maybe on body shots, but, really, time dilation makes getting headshots as easy as clicking the ME3 icon on your desktop.

But they aren't wasted. As I say, I use my sniper rifle on anything except cannon fodder, i.e. Troopers, Cannibals and Husks, and I leave Guardians to Singularity. That leaves Brutes, Banshees, Marauders, Ravagers, Hunters, Primes, Rocket Troopers, Centurions, Engineers, Atlas, Banshees, Phantom. So it's not close to 99%, I'd be very surprised if it's a majority. And besides, that's what you have crowd control for. The sniper rifle is extremely useful against everything that isn't shielded weak- it's great against Atlases, Ravagers, Banshees (if you can hit), Brutes, etc etc. The ONLY thing is that it cannot one shot Marauders and similarly shielded enemies. Insanity Barriers on Banshees and Shields on Atlases and Geth Prime aren't really blocking any significant damage since the underlying Armor is very tough, and for that, the sniper rifle is perfect. If you stack enough armor weakness I'm pretty sure you can make the armor value negative (Cyro Blast+ Armor Piercing Mod on Black Widow, which has inherent armor piercing, Warp weakening adds up to more than 100%, but I'm not sure). For weaker shielded enemies, all you have to do is lead with abilities, or, if you can't be bothered with the power spam, just shoot them twice.

I didn't bother with the concentration module myself, but I didn't have much trouble getting headshots (although I guess it might help against Banshees).

Are the AI Engineer Turrets as bad as tvtropes says? Something about stripping shields in a second of fire and just two seconds of exposure equals death? If so, that sounds pretty lame to me. Brutes and Atlases sound pretty self-explanatory to me, but what is a Ravager? Is it the Rachni-Reaper I read about earlier or is it something else?

Ravagers are indeed the Rachni-Reapers, which are the Reaper artillery. They fire a barrage of 3 missiles in quick succession after aiming a targeting beam, so it's obvious you're being targeted if you're looking at the Ravager. The Ravager is one of those units that will kill you in MP more often than SP because of LAG, since you've actually taken more damage than you think. There have been times when I duck back into cover and I get another 30% shields taken off me after I've ducked. This holds true of turrets as well, due to these units' abilities to do a lot of damage to you very quickly and in quick succession.

On the other hand on Bronze and even in Singleplayer, enemies who do a large amount of spike damage can sometimes be indefinitely tanked because you exhibit the ability to take no further damage over the small amount of recharging shields you have. This is also true of the Geth Rocket Trooper's rockets (and even the Atlas) don't shoot through my shields. Bonus. This is less true of Silver because it's unlikely you're going to be soloing a Brute or a Rocket Trooper.

Hidden turrets on Insanity can kill you very quickly. I once walked straight into a turret's fire to try to Warp Throw it. Unfortunately I timed it poorly and ate a face full of turret bullets instead. I died in a couple of seconds, but that's because I was only on Fitness level 2, pushing warp, throw and biotic mastery. It was so much easier being able to take it out from infiltration

Removing shield overflow restriction would hardly make you one shot everything. But it would give heavier sniper rifles a reason to exist. As it stands, the best sniper rifle is one that is doesn't run out of ammo killing the fodder. I don't know what kind of disadvantages should be fair for something like the Mantis or the Widow or the Javelin, but basically negating the point of their massive damage per bullet shouldn't be it.

As has been said by Langy, it still makes these powerful sniper rifles aimed at high damage per shot very good against hardened targets. As an infiltrator I tend to run with an SMG, a pistol and a sniper rifle. The SMG weighs next to nothing and is generally my main combat weapon (I favour the Locust, although it's a shit weapon against Reapers) and I can use the pistol to take down things like Husks if I want to shoot, or use it to take down armored enemies who have gotten close. Yes, I snipe a lot, I do it even more in MP, at times I get bored of it because I snipe almost exlusively in MP when I play as Infiltrator just to try to get the 75 sniper kills medal :P It's part of the reason I don't take the concentration module, because I have to end up sniping in real time in MP.

Why even have weapons like the Widow if lower end sniper rifles perform virtually identically (similiar DPS on heavy targets, one shot kill on mooks, 2 shot kills on protected)

Non- pre-order bonus sniper rifles include:

Mantis
Viper
Raptor
Incisor
Widow
Javelin
Black Widow

The Widow, Black Widow and Javelin all have comparable damage, the Black Widow has the weakest damage per shot out of them all, so I'll count those as having the same kind of role.

I'm going to go check this now, but I don't believe that sniper rifles like the Viper, Incisor and Raptor can 2-shot a Marauder.

If other classes are allowed to optimize for specific thresholds such as one shot kill on a power combo

But they're still not one-shot kills on shielded enemies. You need to do multiple biotic combinations, unless I'm not upgraded enough. And if abilities+ sniper rifle headshot isn't one-shot kill then multiple biotic detonations doesn't count either. Still can't comment on shotguns.

**Langy** · 1st Apr 12 11:11 AM

Headshots are actually completely worthless against banshees - they don't take any extra damage no matter where you shoot them.

**Gorb** · 1st Apr 12 11:22 AM

Apparently, the chest area is the Banshee's weak point. I can't remember the source, but it was floating around either IRC or this thread at one point.

I am, of course, presuming that SP == MP for these purposes and the information I read was accurate (certainly seems to be based on chest-shotting Banshees in MP).

**Codex** · 1st Apr 12 11:24 AM

@ Langy

OH REALLY? Good to know. Where'd you get this from?

@konfeta

If you want to know some of the reasons to pick one sniper rifle over another, read these. The player notes are pretty good at differentiating the sniper rifles. In particular the Widow and Black Widow have inherent armor piercing capability which makes them a lot better at taking down hardened enemies than your Mantis.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/M-92_Mantis
A fully upgraded Mantis can make for an extremely powerful weapon. While outclassed by the Widow's Armor piercing and damage, it makes up that deficit with a combination of accuracy and a lighter weight. This allows it to be paired with a light SMG or Geth Pulse Rifle.

Until you can level up the Mantis with additional spare clip capacity, or acquire the spare thermal clip mod, ammo is very scant.
As with other sniper rifles, if the Mantis is shot without aiming with the scope, it will do about half the normal damage. [/spoiler]

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Widow

Spoiler

Oh wow. Did you guys know that firing unscoped halves sniper rifle damage? o.O

**konfeta** · 1st Apr 12 11:33 AM

Not quite true.

Seems to be quite true on Insanity. On lower difficulties, shield gate is not an absolute 100% damage stopper, just a partial one, but on Insanity it seems to be designed to be stop absolutely all damage. Only reason Biotic Detonations get past it is the physics damage from hitting terrain.

And if abilities+ sniper rifle headshot isn't one-shot kill then multiple biotic detonations doesn't count either. Still can't comment on shotguns.

Different classes, different expectations. Headshots don't neutralize packs of enemies in 1 instance.

Sure, you need to put in two hits to kill a Centurion or Engineer, but so what?

Some people just don't have a heart for video game sniping, do they?

Boss-like targets don't have weak spots for the headshot bonuses to count. And even then, they don't really have satisfying thresholds to optimize for. You have to hit them multiple times, not quite as interesting as trying to go for a one shot kill sort of thing.

If you want to know some of the reasons to pick one sniper rifle over another, read these. The player notes are pretty good at differentiating the sniper rifles. In particular the Widow and Black Widow have inherent armor piercing capability which makes them a lot better at taking down hardened enemies than your Mantis.

Actually, that is probably a good enough reason. Still, I want to build a primary sniper, not an infiltrator who happens to use specialized sniper rifles for specialized enemies. In an ideal world, this build would require maxing out various ammo types that have a level 6 upgrade to allow them to bypass shield gate for commitment purposes.

ooo, modding time; god bless the internets. I imagine within a few months people will also make a high quality difficulty mod to give ME3 a fresh gameplay feel later on. No more complaining about shield gating for me, Bioware made a doodoo, oh well, they at least made it easy enough to fix.

[SPOILERS] Mass Effect 3 Single Player Impressions/Discussion

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