Dark Souls

[DeafMute]

Anyone here play this game?
Really isnt as hard as some people would have you believe, sure afew bosses are visually impressive but the combat is really simple, dodge, roll or block and your golden. The only differculty comes from when you get stun locked or 1hit killed by a boss.

I also find the lack of a story terrible, given the game world the game is set in could do something quiet well.
And so many things are unexplained to do with fighting, weapon upgrades. locations to goto next.
I dont want a game to hold my hand but dark souls tells you next to jack shit beyond the undead prison control set-up.

So yeah, rant aside im playing it, anyone else here on the PSN and fancy bro-ops?
SL55 Sunbro.
5+Black knight sword.
Havels or elite knight ++

[Shuma]

We had a Dark Souls thread here floating somewhere, but i pretty much disagree with everything you said though, sure most of the game isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be, but, Ornstein and Smough were hell, especially if Orstein goes super saiyan. And i for one love the lack of story and explanations, leaves more things to the imagination and exploration, and if you want to know more about the world, all items have a description on them, and i'd hate for those things to change in the inevitable third something-something souls.

I spent 70 hours on it on my first playthrough and i think i ended with Ornstein's armor set, SL 80 something, used a spear most of the game, switched to a divine zweinhander for the last boss.

[DeafMute]

The boss fights in this game are a joke.
Last boss can be parried to death and has bonus dmg dealt to him by fire. of all elemental attacks the one hes built from is his weakness...
Niro - easy, lure him to the starting position and keep hitting him. The only boss's to give me issue is the red drake and seath.
Even fatboy & slim are easy if you summon the sunbro leader, who always has a habit of dying before you land the killing blow on the boss =/.

Thats not to say I dont enjoy the game, wouldnt have 4 characters if I didnt. Just I see so much room for improvement =/ I guess I hate how console games imo are betas for the sequal which inturn become betas for the 3rd game in the series.
So hard to get it right the first time?

[Starblade]

Dark Souls is great, though I felt the game climaxed at Anor Londo, and went from being hard to being annoying or phoned in, like Crystal Caves and Lost Izalith (the first half of it and Demon Ruins, anyway) respectively. Anor Londo and O&S were the hardest parts of the game though, and I only beat them with the help of three ghost buddies. My build by the end was Havel's armor, with his ring to keep my giant fat ass moving and the ring of favor and protection, and the Gravelord Sword and Crystal Ring Shield or Black Knight Shield, depending on if I really wanted something to die or not.

I also find the lack of a story terrible, given the game world the game is set in could do something quiet well.

Pay a bit more attention, there's a good deal of it, though your part in it takes place at the very end. It's just not presented in a traditional manner. Much of the back story is in the items and souls you acquire, with most of the plot given from the few NPCs who are in the know and the environments. For example, your complaint the final boss is weak to what's supposed to be his element:

Spoiler

There's a reason he's the Lord of Cinder and not the Lord of Flame. The First Flame burned him to near nothingness. It used him as kindling in the same way you used humanity (which makes Solaire's quest that much more tragic) . His knights? Their armor wasn't blackened in demon fire. They were burned alive by the flame.

So hard to get it right the first time?

Unless you're going to tell me there's a sequel to Dark Souls in the works right now, go take the console/PC shit to 4chan or Gamefaqs.

[DeafMute]

Wouldnt suprise me if a 3rd game is in the works since dark souls was a sucess.

So starblade, am I wrong for thinking that this game lacks certain key things thats expected in this day and age?

[Starblade]

Considering the whole point of the Souls series is a throw back to older games and methods, including esoteric unlocks and discoveries and challenging gameplay? Yeah, it's kind of missing the point of Dark Souls. I'm not going to argue that it's flawless, mind you, there are plenty of things that could have been improved. There really isn't any reason you can't invite your friends as a soul or to have the game reset to main menu if you join a party with them, and God knows the netcode is bad. When I played at launch I could barely find anyone to fight or join with! Not having anything explained to you isn't one of those bad things, though. The game wouldn't be a fraction as fun as it was for me if I weren't playing it and finding new things and telling other people about it as they tell me the secret of the red drake and holy shit shooting its tail 50 times really does give you a free sword. It's a bundle of game design ideas we've left behind, some for better, some for worse, but I like that they didn't compromise on that.

[DeafMute]

I have to agree with you, I do like the feel of earning what I get from this game.
I guess I just wish the game had more soul to it, the mute main character isnt so much an issue as I first thought it would be and its tricky to pin point what areas exactly I would improve, well maybe the rolling/hit detection bs. Asin if it looked asif it hit on your screen, should be a hit and your right the netcode is bad for online. I hate PvP the most with all the laggy backstabs.

All that being said, love the boss designs, enviroment art, armor types and weapons/spells.
Thinking on it now its the minor things which bother me about this awesome game.

You still play Starblade?
PSN or Xbox?

[Shuma]

@Deafmute:

Well yes, and O&S are a joke if you're a piromancer, but i didn't parry Gwyn, and i didn't summon help to fight O&S, the appeal of this game to me is that it's challenging, i don't go out of my way to make the game harder for myself, but i didn't go out of my way to make it easier either. Ironically, i had no problems killing the Red Drake or Seath, and yes, Nito was piss easy and a disappointment, but not as disappointing as the **** dragon.

[Starblade]

I've got the Xbox version, and haven't played it in a few months but this thread is giving me an urge to boot it back up and go through a second time. I wonder if the 360 netcode ever improved like that one patch suggested. And I absolutely agree that the collision/hit detection is terrible, and for me it turned Crystal Caves into a completely unfun slog.

I don't agree though that the game is lacking in soul. The entire time I felt like I was playing out some Arthurian legend or something, especially when you hit Ash Lake, one of my favorite parts of the game.

[Shuma]

Ash lake is definitively my favorite part of the game, even the theme is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enkEiD8PC5o

I'm not even kidding when i say that the first time i got there i just stopped in awe, they really got that part right. I would have wished that we had more to do in it, but it still was... "pretty"

[DeafMute]

@Starblade. If you played it when it was newly released, afaik the current version of the game has had atleast 5 patches. and is supposidly much easier and stable. although since im on the free PSN, lag is forever an issue, hate how the fps drops to almost a crawl in blighttown too.
Play a pyromancer myself, and havnt gone to ash lake, is that after seath?

I feel asif I should revisit my rather negative take on the first few posts in this thread and hopefully clear it up by saying that I felt the way I did because I fount out much more about the game through the wiki online rather then ingame. that imo is poor design.

[Master Chief]

That was actually a purposeful design decision, the idea was that the game itself would be difficult and near-impossible solo, the community would have to band together via wikis and such to learn about the more cryptic items and secrets. Similar to the cooperative aspect of white phantoms. The lead said so in an interview, pretty cool in my opinion.

Ceaseless Discharge is fucking bullshit though, just glitched through a wall and one shotted me for like an hour. Game's fun though, but if you ain't clanking in full armor you ain't a Dark Soul.

[Starblade]

Play a pyromancer myself, and havnt gone to ash lake, is that after seath?

You know how you get to Quelaag at the bottom of Blighttown? Go in the other direction, towards the giant tree. You'll enter the Great Hollow. After that, keep going down.

a covenant

You'll find the Everlasting Dragon there, who you can enter a covenant with to turn into a half-dragon man and shoot fire out of your mouth.

As Chief said, you're not supposed to solo it, but they didn't explain anything either. They even put a link to the wiki on the back of the box.Though the effect is kind of ruined so late after launch, after people have mostly figured everything out, when it was day zero everyone was working through how the game was with each other, uploading half truths to the wiki which then were sorted out later, like the Gravelord Covenant. It's part of what made it so endearing to me, though I can see why someone would dislike that part.

[DeafMute]

Going to restart my playthrough, thanks for the ash lake tip about the dragon. his tail gives a sword btw.
Will try a new improved sunbro build thats mainly str and faith based, with pyromancy and the sunbro light spells. should be fun, now the only question that remains...Do I kill the sunbro leader for his armor...

---------------
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dark-...nfirmed/092537

Sequal confirmed.
"wider audience" new way of saying we want the cod audience.
Possible quick time effects confirmed?

[Hand of Asur]

For me DS is about the PvP builds more so than PvE. Some of the 120 comps are f'ing brutal ATM with WoG/BS combo going large. As per usual some one will work out a build counter Happy to help with dupping/transfers if needed (GMT +10) PS3 tag.

if you ain't clanking in full armor you ain't a Dark Soul.

If you ain't doing a NG+ run naked armed only with a dagger you ain't a Dark Soul :P

[Kronoch]

I just started with this game. I was curious to see what this incredibly hard game was all about. But this game isn't hard. It's just been made to annoy me on every concievable level. It feels like a badly designed game from ten years ago. There are a ton of reasons why I hate this game, but it kinda pointless to go into them.

My main question is this. Is this game ever going to give me a reason to play it? Is it going to give me motivations, or even a story? Are there characters that have good voice-acting and make any sense when they talk? Is there anyone that gives me the slightest hint of what I'm supposed to do? Is there even a backstory?

[Shuma]

Other than the intro and the item descriptions? Nope.

This game is not for everyone, but i'm curious, how far are you into the game, and why do you find it annoying?

[Starblade]

At a certain point in the game certain characters will give a plot dump, the rest you get from items, the intro, looking at what's happening (you can piece together what Blighttown's deal is, for example, or what happened to Londo), and thinking through what everybody is saying. Most of it you have to figure out on your own.

[Kronoch]

I've played about 9 hours and I don't have a clue how far I am into the game. According to my roommate, I spent about 3 hours running in the wrong direction. He took pity on me and told where I was supposed to go. Now I'm in some kind of place with some kind of key and I'm stuck. I can't use it on any door and I keep getting lost. I hate stumbling in the Dark.

The annoying stuff: The game constantly places enemies where you can't see them. Going to the menu/inventory doesn't pause the game. The character information screen is full of stats that manage to tell me nothing at all. People say things to you ONCE, and only once. If you live next to a busy road and a light railway like I do, then you're fucked because they won't repeat themselves ever. And the font is so small that I can't read the subtitles or which button I'm supposed to press. The manual is useless, and the inventory is shitty. Why is there a character creation when you spend most of your time as a zombie? Why doesn't the game tell me what the advantage is of being human? Why can't I just load a game from the ingame menu?

Why does my character (even the agile ones) take about 2-3 seconds to react whenever I tell him to do something? Why can enemies can hit, shoot and throw through walls when my character manages to hit a wall half a metre to the right when he's jabbing a spear forwards? Why can they also move and attack through each other during the attack animations when you can't? Why are the heaviest attacks homing attacks when the enemies use it, but not when you do it? Why can't you interrupt their slow/heavy attacks with your fast ones? Why is the flask animation so long that enemies have turned you into a ham sandwich by the time you're done? Why does the godawful lock-on system only react when there's a full moon and it's in a good mood?

When I think of a hard game, I think the combat is difficult and unforgiving, and that's fine with me. I didn't think they meant I had to be fighting the controls and the interface/menus. The combat from Silent Hill flowed better than this game.Yes, it is satisfying when you beat the group of enemies that you couldn't get past before. But the clunky controls, the complete lack of information/directions/objectives make this game a total chore to play through. And I can tell it's all by design, that it is puposefully counterintuitive and clunky and uninformative.

I really want to like this game, but it just doesn't let me in. I assume I'm going to have to fight all the gods from the intro. Can somebody tell me why?



Anyway, this game will not beat me. It's become personal now.

[Starblade]

The character information screen is full of stats that manage to tell me nothing at all.

It tells you exactly what you need to know. Your stats are the requirements to use certain pieces of armor. Anything beyond that increases their damage/damage resistance based on scaling (the letters E-S). Your encumbrance has three parts. Below a quarter encumbered is max speed and dodging, half is okay, over half you're too slow and can't roll (but do a hilarious looking flop). Stay below half.

Why doesn't the game tell me what the advantage is of being human?

Because the point of the game is to figure everything out for yourself.

Spoiler

It lets you summon other players to help you and you have increased curse resistance and rare item drop chances.

Why does my character (even the agile ones) take about 2-3 seconds to react whenever I tell him to do something? Why can enemies can hit, shoot and throw through walls when my character manages to hit a wall half a metre to the right when he's jabbing a spear forwards? Why can they also move and attack through each other during the attack animations when you can't? Why are the heaviest attacks homing attacks when the enemies use it, but not when you do it? Why can't you interrupt their slow/heavy attacks with your fast ones? Why is the flask animation so long that enemies have turned you into a ham sandwich by the time you're done? Why does the godawful lock-on system only react when there's a full moon and it's in a good mood?

In order, because you're doing it wrong or have a bad controller (the player character reacts instantly but every attack has a windup, you have to figure it out), a legitimately shitty design decision that shouldn't have been done, mostly the same (though its advantageous to you if you have a larger weapon, since you can just kill them all at once), because your attacks are too weak (heavy attacks with light weapons should do the trick, or larger weapons period) and if you're using light weapons you should be doing parries and ripostes, because you shouldn't be healing where it isn't safe to do so, and the lock on is kind of touchy like the collision detection.

As for fighting the gods, you'll have to figure out why on your own. The game won't come out and say why but you can piece it together if you put in the effort. The game doesn't hand anything to you, and that includes the plot.

[DeafMute]

Kronoch sums up most of the issues I found when I first started the game.
I too wanted to get a feel for the story as the intro movie is brilliant, I am still enjoying the game, was playing afew hours ago on my SL61.

I hope the 3rd game further improves upon the formula, just abit more of a stronger story direction, alittle more help with were to go and what to do.
Dont ever want to be spoon fed but afew tips isnt hard.

[Starblade]

Honestly as long as they have better net code, collision detection, easier to connect co-op (escorting some low level person through Anor Londo while I led the way was great. I even saved him from a black phantom then sacrificed myself at the boss. He lost, sadly) and more effort put into the final third (seriously levels are copy/pastes of enemies at a certain point), I'd be good to go.

[Master Chief]

It'd be cool if the next one was larger and had mounted combat but I don't know if it'd fit the mood.

[DoomKnights]

Has this finally come to PC? No? Screw you guys, I'm going home. *walks away*

*Would love to play the game, but alas I don't pay for a PS3 or want to pay for internet THAT I have already pad for.*

[Starblade]

I thought they were working on a port? Was it canceled?

[DoomKnights]

There was talk about it, but since then nothing, not a word or even showing hints of work. So, still waiting ^^

[DeafMute]

Aside from the fans begging for a port.
There was a picture that surfaced not long ago supposidly for a magazine with an image saying "YOU HAVE DIED" written in the letters within dark souls.
So either PC port inbound or Sequal.

Win-win eitherway in my case.

[Hand of Asur]

Is there even a backstory?

Kill demons/undead for souls.

It's just been made to annoy me on every concievable level.

Aye, my theory is Sony wanted to boost controller sales due to people smashing them whilst trying to play.

Are there characters that have good voice-acting and make any sense when they talk?

This is not the game you are looking for, try ME3. DS is at its heart a RPG that is dedicated to brawling, there is lore in the game but you have to find it yourself. For some that is a major plus, you are basically left to your own devices in terms of navigating around the game world and trying to work out WTF is going on, and that is the way it is. I like that aspect of the game in the sense that you are given disparate pieces of a puzzle and have to work it out for yourself. There is no hand holding and if you really want to get the most out of the story arc you have to work hard for it. For the most part this aspect of the game has contributed to building a community that loves to share new discoveries. Whether it be builds, weapons, armor or a piece of the story arc. However, at the end of the day it is an unapologetic brawler to its roots and that is why people play it for the most part. What is interesting is that gamers themselves become part of that story, especially with the covenants and the ongoing battle for control of the Forest.

As I said above, the PvP part of the game is really were the game's fighting mechanics begin to shine. Make a lvl 120-125 build and start PvPing to get the most out of the game. It is were Demons Souls found its longevity, and for mind, was one of the major reason Dark Souls was possible to make.

My only complaint with Dark Souls is no Nexus. I miss the Nexus...best central hub in a game ever! For some reason both Demons Souls and Dark Souls remind me of Hellgate:London in a good way.

[Starblade]

However, at the end of the day it is an unapologetic brawler to its roots and that is why people play it for the most part. What is interesting is that gamers themselves become part of that story, especially with the covenants and the ongoing battle for control of the Forest.

What? No it isn't. Double Dragon, Ninja Gaiden, No More Heroes and Arkham Asylum are examples of a brawler.

As I said above, the PvP part of the game is really were the game's fighting mechanics begin to shine.

Ignoring a few gamebreakers like the fog ring and certain magic spells I've long forgotten the names of, anyway. Before the first couple patches there was a single build anyone did because it was unbeatable due to latency issues and its inability to be targeted.

[Hand of Asur]

What? No it isn't.

Tea is tea.

The game fits into my definition of a brawler purely based on the fighting mechanics which kind of place it between a ARPG/RPG/Brawler. Call it what you want, I don't really care TBH. Genres and categories are designed to confine, isolate and control in order to create artificial wedges/divisions for which people can argue over until the cows come home or 20/12/2012 happens Can we call it even and just call DS a video game?

Ignoring a few gamebreakers like the fog ring and certain magic spells I've long forgotten the names of, anyway. Before the first couple patches there was a single build anyone did because it was unbeatable due to latency issues and its inability to be targeted.

All true, and that is why comps and tournies have rules and guide lines in terms of what can and can't be used. Stun lock spam chain FTW1!1 oh wait...

[Starblade]

Are there really Dark Soul tournaments? That sounds kind of cool. How would that work if you can't reliably connect to someone else because of how the system is set up?

[Hand of Asur]

Most of them are held on Japanese serveres ATM, but Dark Souls.wikidot.com usually organises comps for US/EU servers. Lag/disconnects are taken into account when negotiating rules for the comp. A good tourny will have most of these in place. Its just a matter of getting to know the PvP community and keeping an eye out for when one pops up. Demons Souls tournies were running all the way up to the release of Dark Souls and some of them had anywhere up 50+ people per comp. There are a lot of people who are more than happy to organise individual/group sparring sessions, so you can get decent PvP fights without all the random BS from regular invasions/jumpers/greifers/IMBA spammers etc.

Link to tournie held over the past couple of week-ends:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/60631...1801/694584873

[Kronoch]

I started playing the game again today after a break of about a week. Started a new character, adjusted my expectations.

And suddenly the game... clicked for me.

I don't know when it happened exactly, but it was about the time I hung around in undead burg and concentrated on mastering all the nuances of combat before moving on. All the annoying stuff doesn't bother me anymore. And I got further in 1 hour of gameplay than in the previous 9 hours on the other character.

edit: The minotaur just jumped backwards off the ramparts and died. huh...

[Saunders]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dark-...nfirmed/092537

Sequal confirmed.
"wider audience" new way of saying we want the cod audience.
Possible quick time effects confirmed?

Going back a few weeks to comment...

Actually, "wider audience" taken in the context of what they were saying sounds like they want to increase their exposure globally. To me, that sounds like a great thing because I feel as though localization and network issues (especially network issues!) caused a number of core issues for an otherwise awesome game. Their notion of a core gamer may be analagous to the Japanese gamer.

"The success of both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, which have each sold over a million [units] per title worldwide, has made us shift our thinking internally to not just core gamers, but to globalise our products, that they can be successful on a worldwide scale.

"That's now one of the key pillars we consider when we develop games in the future."

[Hand of Asur]

The minotaur just jumped backwards off the ramparts and died.

Environmental traps are embedded throughout the game. Use then to kill demons/invaders/gods.

#Hunter101 Plunging ATK is large

concentrated on mastering all the nuances of combat

I still prac on the Balance Beam @Nexus

[Mokino]

PC Dark Souls confirmed

Hopefully they took some time to polish it a bit. The console version, while decent, suffers from a moderate lack of polish.

[Afoxi]

So what is this game about and why is it good?

[Mokino]

Personally, I actually don't like it.

It's a single character dungeon crawler, essentially, that mostly earns praise for being insanely difficult. I find the game far, far more frustrating than fun.

[Patman42x]

it's not that difficult actually. Can be frustrating at times indeed though. Has an excellent atmosphere and art design for which alone you should give it a try

[Afoxi]

I like difficult single-play games. I may look into it.

But for now, activating ignorant-until-one-week-from-release mode!

[Shuma]

So there are scans floating around already, there are at least 2 new bosses, one is a black dragon, another is the white manticore from the art book. I can't wait.

[Kronoch]

I'm progressing slowly, but at least I've beaten all the bosses, including the optional ones. Until great grey wolf sif. This boss is so annoying. Apart from having a huge amount of health he rarely stands still, so I only hit him once or twice before he jumps away.

I think I'll get him next time, but damn this one is chipping away at my patience. Target lock keeps deselecting him when he jumps backwards.

I have the feeling that I'm missing a lot, but apart from mc hammer down in near the hydra I can't find any good items/enemies.

[Shuma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzSqBfPQIEk

The time has come. It apparently uses Games for Windows Live, but, on the actual site only the UK site has it:

http://preparetodie.com/uk/preorder/

US:

http://preparetodie.com/en/preorder/

Dunno what's up with that.

[Nalkor]

Mother fucker, it just had to be that lameass GFWL didn't it? Bioshock 2, Dead Rising 2, Batman Arkham Asylum, Batman Arkham City, really all the games I have that use GFWL cause me no end in grief when it comes to installing and updating the game. Steam is better, by far.

[Shuma]

Well, we're not sure yet if we'll be forced to use it, or if it's just Europe, but either way i'm fine with it. Also, it's pretty neat that the 4 knights of Gwynn will be in the game after this.

[Starblade]

This is going to be the first time I buy a game a second time for more stuff.

[Mokino]

Starblade, the extra content is being released as DLC for the console version (rumoured to be free.)

And GFWL appears to be all regions. I guess they didn't think the game was masochistic enough.

[Nalkor]

Seriously, why is GFWL even around anymore?

[Shuma]

Well i for one will buy the PC version either way, but:

Starblade, the extra content is being released as DLC

When was it confirmed? A lot of people have been bitching because so far it says it's PC only and because From Software had said they'd never do DLC. And how does it appear that GFWL is all regions only? It's only mentioned in the european site.

But anyway, seeing how the first petition worked so well, people now want to campaign against GFWL:

http://www.change.org/petitions/namc...r-windows-live

[Mokino]

http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/...s-coming-soon/'

It's not confirmed yet but I highly suspect it will be coming.