You clearly have no limits BA, (so sayeth the other BA, who is now BW). Jaw this the desk when I saw the detail work on the pelvis. Just amazing, truly.
You clearly have no limits BA, (so sayeth the other BA, who is now BW). Jaw this the desk when I saw the detail work on the pelvis. Just amazing, truly.
Time to break out the foam board mock up I made so many months ago and see where I went wrong. At that time I was going for a foam Warlord with a styrene veneer and after I totally miscalculated the legs I put the whole project on hold until I had some decent measurements.
I'm surprised how close I came to duplicating my target size as both of these models were built with absolutely no reference to the other. On the negative side the overall height with the knees locked in the following images will yield a 29 inch Warlord which is an inch taller than the DS model and 3 inches taller than my amended target height and 5 inches taller than my original estimation! Egad!
Granted the legs as they are pictured look a bit stilted (groan) and with knees flexed and stepping out in a dynamic pose the mean height should approximate DS's model but it will make any subsequent Emperor titans that much larger and impractical for the average battleboard.
Photoimpacted in carapace and superstructure at 100, 90, and 85 percent the 80% being ridiculously too small.
In the cold light of day I am leaning towards 90%.
The much anticipated torso build finally; I shall start with the Engineering level with the floor being the top of the planetary mechanism body rotation plate. I have reduced the overall size 10% witness the excess outside the gear plate uprights. The center console/axle support is one of the drums left over from a failed sleeve originally earmarked for the hip axles. That will support the center control monitor consoles in the center well.
The majority consensus is 90% is the way to go:
The Giant Washer TGW (AKA "The planetary mechanism body rotation plate") is the part I am working on at present. It will supply the Engineering/Logistics compartment ELC with a floor and have a hatch for access to the planetary gears and pelvic block/rear gunner platform. The central shaft housing will contain the fiber optic cables for the Integrated Logistics Systems ILS and the forward deck of the compartment will have the Terrain Mapping Computer TMC and Monitor to ensure proper Stable Footing SFM for the vehicle. On either side will be view ports to maintain a first hand view of the legs as a back up in case the monitors are scrambled WTF*. Thanks to Bibbles suggestion I now have ample room to install all these components.
There is no I in engineering.......er.... well there is but you know what I mean
*Watch The Footing
I have been debating how to shorten the upper legs without disturbing too much of the detail. I've known for quite some time that the thigh components were a bit too long. Your reply among others prompted me to take action so yesterday and today I removed the knee discs and a bit of the detail above the axle and cut and re-drilled the axle holes 1 centimeter higher. This necessitated shortening the disc side guides and flex limit stops and shortening the zipper-like trim one set of darts front and back 1 centimeter as well.
I wouldn't put too much faith in the Epic model as the leg components are far too bulky if translated into 28 MM scale. The epic model is fine for overall dimensions i.e. ratio of head to torso (even that is a bit small IHO) and leg length to torso but thigh 10 MM thick would appear ungainly.
The overall effect is positive and I am in the process of reassembling the structure.
Thanks for your support.
Alrighty then back together again and I may be imagining it but removing that centimeter gives this a more powerful look now although a might shorter the aura of menace is more apparent.
How not to build a Titan
First don't have any plan.
Second don't have any diagrams.
Third don't have any conception of what you are attempting.
Fourth don't bother to draw any of the above.
Finally build the whole damned thing inside out so when you find you did make a mistake all the interior work is wasted.
Anyway I'm about to cut the slot for the command center so I figure it's a good time for some catchup pictures.
Man I am going to pretend I didn't see this........................... Whom I kidding subconsciously I'm already figuring how to make a short segmented neck similar to the Chinese bamboo dragons we got as kidsYes the head has rotational abilities, and from what i remember from the old Titanicus comics they did its about a 90 degree rotational arc as well. tbh any more than 90 degrees would be foolish imo, as iirc the warhound and reaver both have the same degree of rotation.
hope that helps!
well they're plastic now but the idea is the same.
I'll sleep on it.
Thanks for the info #@$%^$!
Whoops, forgot the reason for this post installed the hinged side panels for the Engineering department. The ceiling will have indirect lighting and the rear panel will be removable for viewing........
Today was kind of a dress up and trim the various panels prior to building the head and neck and compartment directly behind the head whatever that area might be.
I also installed the torso on the legs for a scale reference which appears satisfactory. The cutouts in the hinged side panels will be observation ports to view the working of the legs and arms and will have clear styrene glazing so the interior lights will illuminate the underside of the carapace and the detail.
Due to a casual suggestion from one of my readers I have been side tracked making the damned head movable. Until that time I was blissfully unaware the the head had the capacity for movement.
Given that the compartments are essentially rectangular I saw little cause to make the neck tubular as was my first inclination. It was so much easier to adapt the double axle premise I used on the hip joints. The images below demonstrate the mobility of the neck in the up and down movement while the truncated triangle will mount the axle for the side to side movement.
The whole Head/Neck module will be removable on the finished product and is mounted on three slides per side to insert it into the torso with a very close tolerance fit in point of fact I may have to sand it down before it is painted.
This little side project was very time consuming but the psychological effect is overwhelming. Imagine the last thing the target sees before being blasted into oblivion as that great head slews around servo motors humming malevolently to transfix the hapless victim with a steely heartless crimson stare even as the plasma weapons begin to glow in prelude to firing.
Last edited by Blackadder; 22nd Jul 12 at 2:01 PM.
I notice from your text that a number of you are having a bit of problem with sanding. Forgive me from stating what you may already know but the information may be useful to those who follow these threads. I use two methods to sand: first on a flat and true surface such as a Formica counter top I lay a full sheet of coarse sandpaper; good stuff such as 3M aluminum oxide paper 60 grit. Next I sand only in one direction. If you sand back and forth you can't help but start rocking and end up with a convex cut. anytime you sand or file, only cut in one direction.
My second method of sanding is a square and true sanding block. I cut half a dozen of these 5/4 by 3 inch by 6 inch blocks many years ago and affixed the sandpaper (3M aluminum oxide) with 2 inch double back tape. when the paper wears out I peel it of and apply new. Again only sand in one direction and it is helpful to rest the piece to be sanded on the table so your cut is clean and true. I also use a steel emery board for tight places although I lost my best one in the move..........Drat!
Once the piece approaches the scribed or penciled line I switch to a medium grit paper for the final dressing. As the edge will probably have glue solvent applied it isn't necessary to use any finer than medium grit. Once glued and the edge is square but must be beveled I use medium or fine paper on block to true the edge.
I also use a really good and clean single cut file with a medium and fine tooth again only file in one direction not back and forth.
Although I have stated this tutorial before it bears repetition.
Not much point in my assembling the whole thing for such a minuscule amount of work but I must say I am gratified at the speed the carapace is coming together. Although I have procrastinated a bit since Monday I still managed to affix the neck shield and arm shield face plates.
Purists might question the employment of windows to view the weapons and leg components but being old school theres nothing like viewing things first hand instead of on a monitor. Therefore I have included viewing ports on the sides of the engineering and command deck under the carapace. There will also be a maintenance catwalk to service the weapons when in use and will be stow-able when not in use. Access to the catwalk will be from the Command deck which will also include fire control.
The Command deck will be modular for removal and the gaping hole in the floor will be plugged with the Engineering recessed ceiling lights access to change the batteries.
The Command deck slides into the forward armour face plate as seen in the next image.
Please don't ask for plans as I am winging this as I proceed. I tried the Blender program but I would have a long white beard before I could utilize it's benefits. I prefer to holistically design my projects keeping the design in my head until it can reproduced in fine styrene.
This construct is falling together like a house of cards. Had I not important engagements this day I believe I would have finished the carapace this evening; the basic structure at the very least.
When things go this easily it can mean one of two things; there is either a grievous mistake I am not aware of or I have hit the sweet note of the construct and am in tune with the author.
I beg the latter but will not rue the former as any mistake can be remedied with facile at this point.
I gotta stop reading Sherlock Holmes, the lingo wears off on me.
Quick Watson the needle!
A little Item before the daily toil, I have always wanted to include a curved girder in one of my constructs but finding a logical place in a Lucius pattern war machine is difficult. I finally hit on the idea of including it in the ceiling/void generator flooring where strength is needed to support the void generators but lightness is also necessary due to the height above ground of the vehicle at this point. I incorporated stress/lightening cutouts to cut down on the weight of the structure of the real life biped.
It's an interesting point at least I am given to understand that cutting holes in a girder actually increase its load bearing strength per mass. Are there any structural engineers in the audience that can confirm or refute this? I am also in the understanding that a hollow cylinder is stronger that a solid shaft of the same diameter. again clarification would be appreciated.
Just a point of conversation to clear up some of my ignorance on the subject.
I know I am wasting a lot of time on the interior but there is an interesting aspect of making a workable environment for the crew. If you don't allow for the crew there is no concept of scale. Yes you can plunk a 2/3 meters tall entity on a battle board and all the tiny 28 mm tall denizens look minuscule but the titan just looks like a scaled up human in armour. But give the titan an interior with decks and work stations seats and monitors and suddenly the scale of the thing grips you. FW models are well designed giant vehicles (at least the ones I'm interested in) but when in a setting other than a battle board there has to be something to convey the size it is supposed to represent.
In keeping with scale this construct needs heavy internal bracing to be believable. I may have to rework the girders in the Eng. compartment.
look so awesome BA... can't wait to see what else you got in store for the interior especially for the head!!
"For thousands of years we've waited in the dark, but now is the time to awaken and take what is rightfully ours" Unknown Phaeron transcript intercepted by Inquisitor Gabriel Khain
I know that it's a bit of a cop-out, but you can also take into consideration that, while still bulky compared to the Eldar constructs, the Imperium of Man has managed to improve its technology and materials. It's not outside of the bounds of imagination that the structures they build (especially STC items such as titans) are concordantly stronger and require less reinforcing than we would imagine with today's materials. It's also possible that the structure requirements/aesthetics remain and make it all the stronger for it being there.
As for the concept of holes, the theory states it should be true. By adding the flared edge of a second geometrical shape such as a circle (which is already a strong geometrical shape, you increase the amount of area that is aligned on the same plane, allowing the thinner material of the beam to act as a thicker material. Cuts down on overall weight (thinner beam) but increases the strength of said thinner beam.
Me - Dude! Don't eat that (habanero beef jerky), it's friggin' hot as f*ck!!!
Tim - Oh, it's not baaaaa...aaaaa....aaaa.....aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! It's like the devil p*ssed in my mouth!!!
First let me hypothesize that the whole concept of titans was to have some soldier shaped figures in the "Epic' arena. It was only when they were rendered into 28 MM scale that we ran into difficulty on how such a vehicle would be designed. To my mind the whole concept of a thirty meter tall bipedal target on a battlefield is ludicrous although the majesty of the construct cannot be denied. It would be too easy to topple one of these just by digging a great big hole and camouflaging it for the titan to step in.
Last edited by Blackadder; 28th Jul 12 at 11:06 AM.
Yes I definitely have to rework the Engineering interior.
The Command deck knees and hanging knees installed I don't know what the modern term for them is but in 18th century shipbuilding they were called knees. Surveyors would go out into forests looking for Oak trees with the desired angled branches called 'compass timber' and mark them for the cutters fell the trees and they were brought to the shipyard sometimes years before the ship was built. There they were seasoned and cut down to the proper size and installed in the hull to support the deck. Trees selected for the Navy were marked with the Admiralty broad arrow mark
signifying the tree was the property of the Navy and no one else could fell it.
So, BA, how were you considering doing the blast shutters for the various viewing ports (a single slab, rolling shutters, overlapping slats)? Will the cockpit also have adjustable shutters? And what are you considering for the interiors of each of these spaces? Have you planned any of that out yet or are you just working the shell and will fit the components in as they can later?
Right now I just need to concentrate on the basic hull and compartments and not be caught up in the fine detail; after all I haven't really established how deep the carapace extends front to back thats why the sheet styrene ends off square at the back at the moment. You have to remember I am working without plans just pictures of various interpretations of what a Warlord looks like although I hardly can improve on the DS model.
As far as shutters their not necessary. The glazing of the ports will be transparent depleted uranium or adamantium or crystalline titanium. I think I have a few sheets of the stuff lying about in spares.
Have you had a look at any pictures of submarine interiors? They're the closest thing I can think of to what the inside of a Titan might look like and in general they are absolutley crammed full of bits of equipment.
Wouldn't work if you're imagining a nice clean Star Track style interior, but worth a look to get ideas for crawl spaces, corridors that you have to stoop to walk through and operating position with magazines running under seats and so on.
Yes but after the fact. I was surfing google and found a lot of images of the Harper Goff Nautilus which has a lot of beams reminiscent of the ones I made. but more finely designed.
Someone asked that I include a figure with the model to get a prospective as to the scale. I found a tank figure sans base in my scrap box which should be a fair representative of an average sized human and glued a thin piece of plasticard to his feet. The result is astounding to me, at 26 inches the amended design height of this model the figure is minuscule.
BTW the carapace side and back plates are drying in these images and stiffen the structure immensely.
I was concerned at the flexibility of the carapace which had a tendency to droop under the influence of gravity so I assembled it upside down to negate that effect.
hey BA I just noticed the big screws in the hips.. are you going to cover those up?
While the assembly and disassembly is going on the screws are constantly being used so there is not much point in camouflaging them. Once the model is completed access to the screws will be covered with removable caps so the pose can be changed and the caps reinstalled.
I've come to the realization that although the legs are movable I only show one pose so here's some with the left foot forward.
Note if you will that the carapace skirt is too long and I'll be shortening it 15 MM also that the cabinets in my work area are too low to be taking pictures under from now on.
The scale height has gone from 120 feet/36.576 meters scale height to 159 feet/48.4632 meters. I'm still an inch and a half shorter than the DS Titan and I plan to shorten the engineering section half an inch which should round out the height to about 160 feet when finished and all the detail is added.
I happened to be crossing a bridge the other day over a sea level freighter port, Port Newark if you must know and I had my GPS set to give me the elevation above mean sea level. As I crested the bridge the readout was 130 feet and I thought to myself, "If I were in a Warlord cockpit this is how high I would be." I was looking down at everything even the cargo container gantries; believe me, that's high! A lot higher than 130 feet looks when you pace it out on the ground. I like to make references like that; Some times when flying the captain will say, We're cruising at 35,000 feet " and I think, that's the depth on the Mindanao trench." or 29,000 feet, "That's the height of Mount Everest." It kind of brings home the scale of what you're looking at when flying.
Bravo sir. The level of detail you add is amazing. I think I'm going to have to find a point 130ft up to get some perspective, I'm curious now as to how high it actually looks
Point of interest, someone on another forum asked me how I arrived at the height of my model; pure conjecture I assure you.
I had no precise figures so I rationalized from the FW models. Starting with the Warhound they made their model 10.5 inches tall thereabout. 10.5 divided by 1.125 (the scale constant for a six foot tall man) is 9.333 which means that a warhound is 9.3 times taller than a six foot tall figure therefore a warhound is 9.3 X 6 = 56 feet for the height of a warhound depending on the pose or 17.07 meters tall. going further the reaver titan model is approximately 16.5 inches tall according to the FW spec's so a 'real' Reaver by my calculations would be 16.5/1.25 X 6 = 79..2 feet or 24.146 meters tall. There is no model for a Warlord so I divided 16.5/10.5 X 16.5 = 25.905 inches X 6 ft = 155.4 feet or 47.387 meters which is what my model approximates. Going further using 1.57 as the new constant (16.5/10.5) gives you 40.6 inches tall for an Imperator Titan and 63.8 inches for an Emperor Titan the last two of which would be totally impracticable for the average game board. I much prefer making 9.5 inches the new bench mark making the Imperator Titan about 35 inches tall and the Emperor Titan 45 inches tall which is still too tall for practical gaming and actual scale height of 270 feet or 82.3 meters tall for the Emperor Titan.
Incidentally using 1.57 as the constant would give you 382.8 feet or 116.7 meters for the Emperor Titan.
Thats nice approach, thanks for taking the time to explain it. I'd have never thought of that.
The carapace is going together quickly, there is a discrepancy in the DS model that I didn't incorporate in mine in that the carapace isn't as deep front to back as the Epic model. Why Mr Smith chose to make it narrower front to back isn't known but for me the balance is important as I want it to stand without a base and with the legs in any position so I need the balance point to be directly over the waist pivot.
Right now the weight of the torso is 1.6 lbs about 0.725 kilo.
Yes these are the upper arm stanchions that connect the elbow to the shoulder under the carapace. Right now they look like very complex salt and pepper shakers to me but when inverted and affixed under the carapace they should do nicely. The length is right but they may need bulking up.
Meanwhile I need gun barrels. PVC is out of the question and I won't use cardboard. A couple of years ago I found an old beach umbrella on the beach (where else) it had broke as cheap stuff usually does and got left behind when the bathers had left the littoral boundary. The pole was made of plastic and it has been kicking around my garage for years. Damn me if the shaft isn't a 31 mm styrene tube. Now two feet of styrene tubing if you could buy it would cost $10 to $20 bucks; probably more than the whole umbrella did. Here's the lesson, watch the recycling bins they're full of gold.
is it bad that i specifically recognise the crewman as that one guy you can build with the old vehicle accessory sprue that came with a leman russ?
i had a whole squad of them when i got my emperors fist bunch'o'tanks.
Part of the problem of a construction of this type and magnitude is keeping the upper works light enough that it won't be top heavy. In particular the ruddy great guns stuck out a foot/0.3 meters from the CG imparting a tipping arm that can be measured in a substantial fraction of a pound/kilo. I have stated previously that PVC tubing will be too much mass for stability but to make a sturdy enough tube is difficult.
I have now what I believe to be the solution.
Starting with a full sheet of 'Evergreen 0.5 mm styrene I divided it into 6 equal parts of 50 mm width. The reason for this is that while bending a 50 mm wide strip tightly around a PVC tube is well within my capacity bending evenly a 150 mm sheet is not; you may prove better than I at that endeavor.
Once I have a proper overlap wound and cemented I opted to glue the remaining tail of the strip on as well for seam reinforcement.
I now had 6, 50 mm long tubes of the required diameter.
Sliding the relatively near perfect tubes back onto the PVC tube and mating the seams I applied a liberal amount of cement on the periphery of the seam I pushed the segments together until tiny beads of plastic oozed from the seam and allowed to dry the result being an extremely light near perfectly round 150 mm styrene tube to build my gun barrels around.
The gun barrels are basically done except for the detail. There was a lot of wrapping of layers of styrene.
The biggest problem was duplicating the bottle caps used in the original.
But the finished result is very gratifying especially since they weigh only 29 grams/one ounce each.
Not much going on today. I made the mount plate for the cannons and installed the keel reinforcements as these guns can't be solid or even wound barrels as would be for say battleships. They would have to be some kind of containment devices such as would be found in linear accelerators. Powerful yet light weight magnets would contain the plasma and focus it out the barrel to the target. Recoil would be out of the question for anything but the lightest projectiles and even these may probably have their own fuel supply such as with a solid fuel rocket.
An interesting note and something I was not aware of is that some battleship built before 1920 the main guns the 14 16 and 18 inchers are actually made of wound wire over a solid tube; Over 200 miles (325 km) of 0.25 x 0.06 in (0.635 x 1.52 cm) of high-tensile steel wire was used in the 18.0 inch Mark 1 . I did not know that. I had always assumed they were cast or at least solid steel.
Anyway note the thin strip of plastic collar at the gun base. The one on the left is affixed but the one on the right is just being started. Note that the starting end overlaps the centerline. This is because it's harder to make the end lie flat to the contour when gluing but if you leave a sacrifice tailing in the beginning you will have a smoother seam when you complete the collar. It's not really necessary on such a thin strip but on heavier strips it will save you a lot of grief getting your rings to stay put.
You would think that by now I would be inured to the tedious aspect of scratch building but no. I am basically a lazy fellow and repetition takes a great toll on my abilities which is why I never took up knitting. So many times when I was building Lucie I thought F-----t why am I wasting time on these damned toes when I could be out sha-----g. Anyway the barrels are supposed to be mounted in box like housings and attached to the box like housings are more tinier boxes all the same size. Well it was a job to make all these tiny boxes and the two big ones weren't any picnic either as they all have to be as light as possible but while the rest of you slept I managed to get them made and now I am going to take a nap.
Last edited by Blackadder; 15th Aug 12 at 3:46 AM.
The arm mounted weapons are basically done and I have to make the stanchions to mount them. My previously failed attempt at stantions was a waste of time and material as they didn't look right but I did find in my electrical goodybox a couple of variable degree connectors that look like they belong on a titan. I don't usually use prefab components but these have been kicking around for years since I refurbished a very intricate electronic control panel on would you believe a bakery production line.
First test drive of the new Volcano Cannons seems to be satisfactory. The apparent size is acceptable and while they aren't bulked out yet they appear to be massive enough as well. The balance is spot on even without securing the hardware I dare say that when the rear components are installed this model will have no trouble maintaining balance even when bending forward. The items of criticism are: the carapace skirt needs to be trimmed upward, the stanchion mounts are extremely pose-able/aim-able but need to be shortened, the stanchion mounts need to be cluttered up with a lot of high tech paraphernalia likewise the guns themselves but overall it's an acceptable start.
So, your shots made me pull out my Epic warlord because something just looks really off in the pics you have up there.
Part of this is what you've already mentioned about the armor skirt and I think part is due to the arms not having their armor plating, but they seem to be in the right position above the hips. That makes me think the lower part of the torso from below the connection for the head to the hips might be a spec too tall.
The second bit that bugs me is how static the stanchions are looking at the epic model I think this is fixed by angling them out from the torso rather than having them completely vertical like you've got now.
I appreciate the C&C; as I said this is the first view I have gotten of the arms attached and I acknowledge that the stanchions are too long likewise the carapace skirt. I have already marked the waist armour weeks ago for shortening but I had to see the model as an assembly and especially in a photo before I amend it because seeing it in a 2D photo brings out discrepancies that your 3D visual perception can't perceive. I'll have to research the angle on the stanchions because although aesthetics requires it I didn't see it on the DS model.
To keep the thread up to date a picture of the guns before I install the outer sleeve forearm shields. Sorry for the mis-nomenclature according to the information on the 'net these shields are called 'vambraces'
Apparently something Lara Croft might wear as well?
HA! got ya smartass! It not too often the Blackadder has to admit mistakes but theres a bigg'un in this post. I applied the 'vambraces' to the guns and lo' they are not long front to back as they should be. I could take the easy way out and say they were foreshortened in the image or the wide angle lens distorted the image but the flat out truth is I miscalculated and the photos revealed the discrepancy. Now I hope I have a viable solution with out having to rebuild this labor intense component "Spaced armour" might save me from a marathon overnight rebuild...............
Note, Had I not lengthened the barrels they would have been okay..................Just sayin'.
For your primaris grade weapons testing stage, I can highly recommend house cats for test subjects.
Knife King of Doltland
I'm not surprised. Anything within three feet of you seems to end up full of knife shaped holes.
You will be hearing from the ASPCA summarily
There's an incredible amount of superfluous detail on the main guns/cannon/weapons to apply calling for a moratorium on the overall build but I have to see how much space will be required before I can continue so................... here is where it stands as of today.
Note both these guns are the same size within a tenth of a millimeter, I don't know why they look so different in size in the photo!
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