Drinking Culture

[Vintage]

Totally agree, trying to piece together what happened the night before is just weird and at some points it can be quite disconcerting. It does make for a great drinking tale a few months down the line though

Just remember my golden rule and you'll be fine: "If I don't remember it, it didn't happen."

[General Kong]

Vintage speaks the Truth

[Nurizeko]

An interesting philosophy but there is a reason I'm a member of a FB group called: "Going out for a quick pint next morning ending up on crime-watch".

I'm a social drinker, and that usually involves getting drunkish, but I don't like most beers or ciders and I really can't be bothered touching the stuff for the sake of drinking it by myself in the day.

[Shoota Fodder]

How early do people start drinking in the states? The 11pm thing makes sense if you go out to the pub straight after Uni/work at 5-6pm-ish and eat out.

[Guardian X]

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but after seeing a documentary about British drinking and the trouble it causes, I have to ask: why the massive (and massively harmful) drinking culture over there? It's not like there's something horribly depressing going on that people are trying to escape from however they can, right?

And I can't determine if the newscaster in that documentary is saying "Worthington," "Wallington," or "Warlington." Can anyone clear that up for me? And has anyone been to that British town in person to see that kind of carnage firsthand?

[Codex]

I think he said Warrington

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington

but then again I've never been to Cheshire, so I have no idea.

EDIT: paste fail

[Kirjava]

why the massive (and massively harmful) drinking culture over there? It's not like there's something horribly depressing going on that people are trying to escape from however they can, right?

Dude, we live on an island where it rains almost all year and the summer consists of two or three bright days in May. Our economy is in the toilet, our infrastructure can't stand up to a bank holiday weekend and the X Factor is considered compelling television. A better question is surely why wouldn't we have a drinking culture?

[Aron_DeTomado]

It's not like there's something horribly depressing going on that people are trying to escape from however they can, right?

Well, there's Britain.

Also, recommending daily averages is rather useless in a binging culture. Yes, drinking 2 pints of beer everyday sounds a bit on the heavy side, but to suggest that you shouldn't drinking more than 2 beers any day is rather laughable.

[comradegrumpy]

@ Kirjava. Australia has a massive drinking culture too, and is almost the exact opposite of Britain (at least with regards to the points you mention). In Perth, where I live, it regularly doesn't rain for several months in summer, the economy is going so fast that our Federal Reserve Back has to keep jacking up interest rates, and frankly, the place runs like a greased machine (unless you want to catch a bus after midnight. There aren't any). People still go out, get pissed as parrots, and beat the tar out of each other in the streets. Actually, come to think of it, the X-Factor is a pretty high rating show here too. Not quite everything is different.

Personally, I love a beer. I occasionally love many beers, all in the same night. Who you're drinking said beers with, and where you're drinking them is a big factor, however. Also, beer never seems to love me in the morning. I think it just says that at night to get me into bed.

[Kirjava]

Clearly Australia is chock full of reasons to want to get so lashed you can't feel feelings too

Though maybe it's the X Factor that's the common theme here...

Edit: why are my posts doubling up at the moment within my posts? Postception...

[darkelf]

comrade, that might have something to do with 90% of the wildlife trying to kill you in rather painful and unpleasant ways

[Shoota Fodder]

@Guardian x
Looks kind of like Glasgow on a Friday morning at around 3am. (Thursday is club night)

I don't know why we drink so much. I drink a lot mostly because most of my friends drink a lot and my parents drink a lot, and I'm assuming my friends parents drink a lot as well. I have absolutely no idea why it exists, it's just the way things have been since the start of time. I blame the Romans. Or the Normans. Mibby the anglo-saxons or the Celts. Oh and the Vikings, invading Largs (grrr).

[Codex]

Well, I think a lot of it is mutual encouragement through social acceptability. How that started, who knows.

As someone who's moved to England during an important developmental phase of my life, it's made me very English in my thinking. I don't think I would've taken to drinking (or smoking, or a lot of other things) if I hadn't been in this environment namely Bristol Uni. My sister on the other hand went to America, and she doesn't drink much at all. Significantly I would say that my sister and I had very similar viewpoints on alcohol and smoking while we were at school, but now they've completely diverged. I would definitely put that down to a change in my opinion due to the society around me.

[Mantaray]

i refuse to work at my shop after 6pm. i cannot be botherd with drunk people. people trying to get drunk. underage kids trying to get alcohol. people trying to get alcohol for underage kids. the list goes on.
worst of all. if under-age kids succeed in getting alcohol on my watch because through some miracle of makeup they looked older then 25. im the one that gets a fine and criminal record.
the drinking culture in the UK is a load of BS.

[Paladin]

How early do people start drinking in the states? The 11pm thing makes sense if you go out to the pub straight after Uni/work at 5-6pm-ish and eat out.

The college crowd generally starts hitting bars and clubs around 9-11 and stays out drinking until like 4am.

Except in California where they get thrown out of the bars and clubs at 2AM and go to Denny's for their after-clubbing munchies.

It's generally unwise to be driving at 2:01AM.

[Vaarok]

Since I have always lived in the countryside, I simply can't fathom it. Going to a bar, or club, arranging transport back, paying for expensive drinks, and all for the dubious company of loud noise and drunk people? It's more hassle than it's worth.

Woodchuck cider, Raki, or a rum-and-coke on occasion to take the edge off a long day and aching muscles, but it's not a social thing for me.

[Nurizeko]

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but after seeing a documentary about British drinking and the trouble it causes, I have to ask: why the massive (and massively harmful) drinking culture over there? It's not like there's something horribly depressing going on that people are trying to escape from however they can, right?

And I can't determine if the newscaster in that documentary is saying "Worthington," "Wallington," or "Warlington." Can anyone clear that up for me? And has anyone been to that British town in person to see that kind of carnage firsthand?

FYI most British people aren't drinking themselves under the table all the time, even though going 'on the lash' is an admittedly big part of British culture.

Most British people live in cities, and cities are as a rule not only more stressful places (we can't afford to make giant urban sprawls with big houses and big yards and lots of quiet neighbours) but people living in them have to find something to do, and a lot of activities are really inconvenient or come with inconvenience AND a price tag.

Not to mention a lot of shit weather compelling us to spend as much time in doors as we can for lengthy periods of time.

How do we have fun then? Well...dancing is cool, everyone loves to socialise to an extent and getting a bit sloshed isn't a bad feeling at all.


The culture of 'getting wrecked' is something else, and while I've gotten pretty drunk at times, I've only pushed myself beyond my limit once, the rest of the time I am able to remember what I did, stay in control of my actions and generally not end up in a cell or a ward.

The UK overall is a highly secular non-religious country which has shed a lot of its conservative leanings, and generally is too liberal to provide too many of the heavier pressures on behaviour reharding substances that can still be found in the states and what-not.

Simply put we enjoy drink amongst other things because the state and society does not tell us we can't.

[Kirjava]

The UK overall

Much simpler response

[Guardian X]

Originally posted by Nurizeko
FYI most British people aren't drinking themselves under the table all the time, even though going 'on the lash' is an admittedly big part of British culture.

Most British people live in cities, and cities are as a rule not only more stressful places (we can't afford to make giant urban sprawls with big houses and big yards and lots of quiet neighbours) but people living in them have to find something to do, and a lot of activities are really inconvenient or come with inconvenience AND a price tag.

They could always take up tabletop or video gaming. More money in GW's pocket, and more DoW series content! Failing that, what about reconnecting with some older but historical English activities, like falconry (I've noticed quite a few falconry centres in England), or English archery, or English swordsmanship? They didn't call it the English Longbow without good reason, and one of the best swordsmen around was the Englishman George Silver.

Originally posted by Nurizeko
Not to mention a lot of shit weather compelling us to spend as much time in doors as we can for lengthy periods of time.

Hey, I got a good idea of what to do with all the unwanted rain in the city; set up rainwater collectors and use the collected water to nourish more urban greenery (which will in turn improve urban air quality), or sell it to water-starved locales, or save it for farms/greenhouses! The increasingly chaotic climate means that having a large water reserve on hand will help to ameliorate the situation.

Originally posted by Nurizeko
How do we have fun then? Well...dancing is cool, everyone loves to socialise to an extent and getting a bit sloshed isn't a bad feeling at all.

The problem is when people use it as an excuse to tear into each other or attack public service vehicles like fire brigade trucks. And you don't see drink-fuelled "English hooliganism" for the most part at sports events in America or Canada. And in the first video I posted, why would other people get involved in a fight over a taxi cab, injuring an old woman in the process? Does drink somehow make it okay? Who put those kinds of ideas into their heads? Average, decent, people normally don't conceive of doing that sort of thing.

Originally posted by Nurizeko
The culture of 'getting wrecked' is something else, and while I've gotten pretty drunk at times, I've only pushed myself beyond my limit once, the rest of the time I am able to remember what I did, stay in control of my actions and generally not end up in a cell or a ward.

Unfortunately too many people don't exercise that kind of self-control, to the degree that there are now specialized ambulances (colloquially termed "Booze Buses," not to be confused with the newer, larger varieties) running around London and other towns during the holiday season to deliver drunks to field hospitals, rather than A&Es/Emergency Rooms (to relieve the burden on the latter). People in Britain (like everywhere else) don't like paying tax, but how many of your tax dollars are spent on the aforementioned services for drunkards like these, or used to pay for the medical services dispensed to people living with, or dying from, alcohol-caused liver diseases that were clearly preventable? I wouldn't be surprised if you could save enough money to clean up the sink estates ten times over by having everyone in Britain deciding to go sober forever at once.

Originally posted by Nurizeko
The UK overall is a highly secular non-religious country which has shed a lot of its conservative leanings, and generally is too liberal to provide too many of the heavier pressures on behaviour retarding substances that can still be found in the States and what-not. Simply put we enjoy drink amongst other things because the state and society does not tell us we can't.

Perhaps it is time for a sea change in attitudes. And it need not come from religion at all. There are plenty of non-religious reasons to limit your alcohol intake; you have more fun, you get to watch drunker people make fools of themselves, you spend more of your evening conscious, presentable, and with your memory functioning, etc.

I lived near the Elephant and Castle in London for a brief time, and didn't encounter any of the lager louts/ladettes myself, but then again, my stay was not during a holiday. Of course, I wasn't expecting the kind of carnage you can see right in the opening minutes of Sir Michael Caine's Harry Brown movie (it's a movie about the increasingly violent youth-perpetrated crime in Britain, and the opening scene shows a couple of yobs taking a joyride on a motor scooter and gunning down a mother pushing a pram with her infant inside for no reason, before being pulped by an oncoming lorry that they failed to see in time), but I am aware I could very well have been a target walking the streets of that locale at night, had some grotesque spiritual descendant of Alex DeLarge from A Clockwork Orange (AKA your average violent chav) decided I needed a knife in my ribs because he drank too much and I was "making him angry."

"Mother England" may have survived the plagues, the Irish Troubles, and being bombed to hell and back during the World Wars, but according to what I've seen, "Her Majesty's Dominion" may yet be laid low by a more insidious foe--the bottle, just as China was laid low by the British with Opium. It's especially troubling now that British middle-class professionals, the largest tax-paying bracket, are now turning to drink to cope with stress in ever-greater numbers, even.

[Jonny]

I wouldn't be surprised if you could save enough money to clean up the sink estates ten times over by having everyone in Britain deciding to go sober forever at once.

While I agree with the general tone of the rest of your post, I doubt this is true. When buying alcohol the government not only gets it's 20% cut from VAT it also gets a huge chunk of people's money through high alcohol duties. If everyone suddenly went teetotal there'd be a large hole in the country's finances.

I've never enjoyed getting drunk. I've drank because I like the flavour of certain things, although lately I don't even drink those, and when I was younger I drank to get obliterated as fast as possible every night because life was shit, but I've never done it because I like getting intoxicated. I they made non-alcoholic beers, wines, ciders, whiskey, mead and others that tasted the same I'd swap without a second thought.

I'm not sure either that the drinking culture itself has changed. My grandfather in the 1930's used to drink 15 pints of nasty locally brewed dark ale every night and go trolling around town with his mates looking for Irish navvies to beat up. I'd say rather that the change has been that the British drinking culture has expanded away from just working class men to claim women, professionals and others who wouldn't be seen dead drunk in public half a century ago.

[Shoota Fodder]

There are plenty of non-religious reasons to limit your alcohol intake; you have more fun

No you don't. Your move.

*Edit: This is a satirical response to show that opinion is an incredibly important factor when dealing with alcohol.

[Vijil]

Alchohol is an easy way to have fun. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. We're lazy - having the same amount of fun in other ways requires more effort. I can totally understand when people just do that all the time.

Here in NZ we have a strong drinking culture but probably not as bad as the UK.

Among my circle of friends we've mostly stopped getting drunk. Almost every weekend we'll play paintball or football or go for a hike up a hill somewhere to check out an LoTR set or go mountain biking or something and then maybe go out for a yummy feed and a few quiets. I'm into craft beers and sake at the moment... We don't get drunk any more - ever! And frankly I far prefer it this way. I'd like to think we're leading by example but I'm not that optimistic.

Speaking of craft beer, this is one of the bright points recently. Craft beer is becoming rapidly far more popular here and people are beginning to shun cheap drinks in favor of drinking less but better. There are craft bars popping up all over the place selling at $10 - 14 or so a glass and they're doing very well. The government have also recently begun to crack down on off licenses with no new ones being granted in certain problematic parts of the country. It's bad enough with half the corner stores selling drinks so that's a great move imo.

[DeafMute]

When it comes to british drinking from my PoV, its all about the crowd with you, assuming you got decent friends who know there limit its all good.
I only drink until im tipsy-drunk which happens quiet fast tbh.

About the only thing that bothers me about going out is the little 18yr old shits who think they are the hardest mofos walking the face of the earth, oh and fast food places, disgusting food hygiene =/

[Mantaray]

Perhaps it is time for a sea change in attitudes. And it need not come from religion at all. There are plenty of non-religious reasons to limit your alcohol intake; you have more fun, you get to watch drunker people make fools of themselves, you spend more of your evening conscious, presentable, and with your memory functioning, etc.

people who drink excessively want to make fools of themselves. spend the evening nearly unconscious, un-presentable and with no memory.
every reason you listed as one to not get drunk. is actualy, exactly the reasons people want to get drunk.

[Rotlung]

I previously disliked alcohol, until one particular chinese new year celebration in Malaysia a couple of years back. I started to like beer ever since...

I started to drink on a somewhat weekly basis (no alcohol when doing revision or just working through university work), but ever since I started my semester exchange in UK, my alcohol consumption has pretty much gone through the roof, especially since alcohol in UK is much cheaper than that in Singapore...

I personally just like the flavour of beer. The tipsy/drunk part is just part of the experience. I think it's fine to get a little tipsy provided you're in a safe environment or with friends you can trust. Getting drunk is quite a terrible experience on the other hand though. Drinking in order to get tipsy/drunk doesn't sit well with me - after all, I'm not into clubbing. I prefer going to a pub and leisurely enjoying a couple of drinks instead.

[TDATL]

When buying alcohol the government not only gets it's 20% cut from VAT it also gets a huge chunk of people's money through high alcohol duties. If everyone suddenly went teetotal there'd be a large hole in the country's finances.

Yep, and that isn't even touching on the fact that suddenly you would have hundreds of people out of work as their skill sets become obsolete. Pub owners, brewers, and everything else in the alcohol market chain would see a pretty big hit.

Even if none of that happened, people would still spend that money on some other form of entertainment (games, movies, sports, ect.) So it wouldn't be going to cleaning anything up anymore than it already does.

To the more general topic of alcohol and the culture surrounding it:
I personally find alcohol to be mildly repulsive but have no problem with others drinking it in moderation (or simply away from me.)

[Pocktio]

Thank you bogert.

Anyways I'm going to take this down the route of 'people have nowt else to do' and say that in the areas I'm familiar with, and have grown up and lived in for most of my life are very quiet. People regularly get sloshed at the pub but then they slowly waltz home. It's generally in rougher areas this happens, and would probably happen without excessive drinking. It just happens to be more fun to commit crime while drunk. People in these kind of areas don't really have any respect for anything, so long as they are entertained. It's not really selfish it's just they don't get much to do with their lives so why bother kind of attitude. Like the booze buses for examples, it's kind of shitty but when I see police and paramedics giving out plimsolls then something is seriously wrong. It's just going to encourage people, I can imagine bragging about how I got so mashed the police had to turn up to give me free shoes! It was awesome!

Then again I can't think of any alternatives, or ways to instill respect. If people had respect for both drinking and the state, they would go out and enjoy themselves with their mates. Even if that meant getting trolleyed, sure. It's when people think the police are just there to serve them, or get in the way of their fun is when things are wrong. That's what I consider binge drinking. It's a combination, just getting smashed is fine.

I myself have had a very sheltered upbringing, I work with people from varying backgrounds and to them going on a night out and having a fight is standard. I was told a story last night by my fundraiser who was railing against getting arrested for punching someone after he got ratted on by the guy he punched. He seemed to think that is was patently absurd to get arrested for lamping someone chatting shit on a night out. 'It's not like a proper crime' to which I replied, well yes technically it's called assault and definitely is a crime. These people seem to think it's something you just do, there shouldn't be reprecussions it just 'is

[AshaD]

I've just returned from Saloufest 2K12. Drinking culture there was obviously over the top. I never drank before last year and I was 22 but I have to say I did really enjoy myself. Behaviour out there was typically English however. So much trouble...

[Bowkers]

Hey Pocky-are we going to get stupidly drunk for gamesday this year like last year?

[Malachi]

Alas, the Voice of Reason is upon us!

I'm Polish, and I got slightly terrified when I visited UK this year. We consume a fair share of alcohol here, it's definitely customary to go drinking at weekends, but I don't see people doing such stuff like trying to eat their own puke. Or maybe it's because I just don't go to places where teenagers drink. I have some of favorite pubs around here, where I mostly meet my friends, drink and talk. I especially like to have a beer at the outside of a pub, in the summer. There is one place in my town that has a table placed on top of an actual medieval guard tower, that I once fell from halfway and wrenched my ankle while drunk is my favorite spot for a summer drink.

Also, relevant:

[roflmao]

Well, at least in America, in the 19th to early 20th century drinking was a massive part of the culture. People don't realize this, but the government got as much as 40% of its money from the excise tax on whiskey. The average American drank 7 gallons of alcohol a year. That's the equivalent of 90 fifths of 80-proof liquor, nearly two bottles a week. Per person over 15. Considering that a lot of people don't drink at all, those who were drinking were drinking a lot.

So, actually, one of the compelling reasons to repeal Prohibition is that during the time when income fell dramatically, there was a huge incentive to replace the income tax with the whiskey tax to regain revenue for the government.

And Americans came from the British, so you pre-Americans have been doing it for a long time I presume.

[Codex]

but I don't see people doing such stuff like trying to eat their own puke.

Believe me when I say it isn't representative of the UK population. But, perhaps it's a symptom.

[man4857]

For me, I never understood the point in drinking, or getting drunk. My buddies when we go out they would drink and I wouldn't really mind but I would stay away from it.
Drinking and getting drunk is just things I never wrapped my head around and doesn't make sense to me. That's my 2 cents.

[Danustar]

is this the post wehn youre pissed thread? You lguys rock.

[scoiatollo]

No that's the thread where all the cool kids brag about their damaged liver, the thread you refer to is older and started by Bowkers

[Sword_Monkey]

Alcohol is in the end, when you look at it closely, a range of beverages of varying flavour and strength that come with an intoxicating effect.

1) Pick your poison: Each unto their own, find out which you like, if any. Some people say they can taste alcohol in almost any alcoholic beverage even the weakest and say they don't like the taste. Fair enough. Otherwise there's a drink out there for everyone. Often things like beer, straight spirits, and dry wine take time to get used to, but once that taste is acquired you enter a whole new world of taste and choice. I personally love beer and port, and have a penchant for absinthe as my body can take it.

2) Poison: It's a poison, a drug. This is two-fold. Whilst in your body it will circulate through your blood and have an effect on your brain that varies due to amount ingested, concentration and type of alcohol. Alcoholic beverages are full of all sorts of odd and zany chemicals that you only get from mixing organic matter up and leaving it alone for months on end. So the results in terms of 'drunkenness' can vary from drink to drink. The second aspect is not how alcohol and other chemicals effect your brain but how they effect your liver. This is the poison aspect, you're putting something potentially very damaging into your body, a chemical the body doesn't demand you consume for any internal process, but one that it is prepared for. So it filters and removes the alcohol. Too much will overwhelm your body and could end up permanently scarring your liver, and even other body parts.

Some people don't like alcohol the chemical, others don't like any beverage they've tried, some don't like the feeling of being drunk, others don't like the idea of damaging their body.

But then there are yet others who like, or don't notice alcohol's own taste, they like the taste of many beverages and enjoy the drunk feeling, and they know when to stop to prevent permanent damage.

But this is a sliding scale, you might not like the taste of any beverage, but love getting drunk with friends, or you might be addicted to the chemical because your brain is particularly receptive to its effect. You may not know how far is too far, you may buckle under peer pressure and try to keep up with your 250 pound friend, when you're barely 150 pounds.

The main issue is education, and not in terms of schooling, but just being told at any early age that there exists a whole range of beverages that can have ill effects on your body but can taste very nice. That your body will react differently to your friends' bodies when imbibing said beverages and that it requires a modicum of maturity and responsibility to treat these beverages with respect and enjoy them fully. Taboo and rules are not frequently an efficient way to educate and too many people see alcohol as way of resisting authority and being rebellious when all they are doing is damaging themselves.

I'm done.

PS @Bowkers yeah drunkly drunkly at Gamesday, I'm totally in this year. Let's get smashed!

[Fish Of Doom]

the thread you refer to is older and started by Bowkers

as always, we all blame bowkers.

[Nurizeko]

He invented alcohol, true story.

[Mullertime]

Let's say you go to a restaurant... it's overpriced, it's far too crowded, you're surrounded by unpleasant people, the music and atmosphere is atrocious and the staff just don't seem to care. The general consensus from this is "That's a shitty restaurant, I'm not going back there again!"

Now change the word 'restaurant' to club and we have a completely different result! People say "I wasn't drunk enough!"

Excuse me?

Have clubs really made you believe that the reason you had a poor night wasn't that the club was awful... but that you didn't drink enough!?

How people have believed this stuns me. I used to love clubbing. There was a local place in my town that used to do Indie Nights on Thursdays. Looking back, I went there stone sober and had some of the most fun there (I'd only turned 18, found drinks expensive and I didn't like the taste then). I'd spend a couple of quid to get in... and came home buzzing. The music was just right, and I felt comfortable dancing like an idiot as everybody else was. No alcohol required at all

To me... that's what's most messed up with the drinking culture: Many believe that you have to get drunk to have fun. In essence, they don't appreciate or respect the nature of alcohol. The alcohol isn't used as an extra to the night out... it's seen as the staple. The thing is... alcohol isn't. Alcohol essentially inhibits and that's about it. It doesn't 'create' fun. And I think a lot of people in the UK don't quite see this. They drink to have fun, and get a sense that drinking alcohol makes them happy. So if they're not happy - then they assume that they haven't drunk enough! So they drink, find they're miserable - but continue to drink as they're led by the ridiculous notion that "more alcohol will make you happier!". It's why I think we have so many unhealthy drinkers. The strange thing is... my European mates drunk tons, but they seemed to "respect" it and focussed more on having fun with their mates than drinking. Many of the UK lot seemed more focussed on the drinking than actually having fun

But that said, I'm wary to say how much antisocial or unpleasant behaviour is truly caused by alcohol. A lot of the time I can't help but think that people often use alcohol as an excuse. A smokescreen if you will... a reason to justify what is otherwise ridiculous behaviour

I could bore you all with possible theories on dopamine and how that could create an addiction-style compulsion - but I'd probably end up turning you lot to alcohol in doing so

[Codex]

Bristol has more than its fair share of shitty clubs. After first year, I vowed never to go to a club that I didn't like. I have, since, but that's because my friends went. It was fun because of my friends, but alcohol does make the shitty clubs less shitty... until you remember where you are. I've had that feeling before, sinking... in the gut.