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Blizzard DOTA

  1. #1
    Member General Kong's Avatar
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    Blizzard DOTA

    Yep you heard right, they are making their own DOTA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx1JD...ature=youtu.be

    Personally I find DOTA as a genre that you go to if you have no original Ideas, it is repetetive, always the same, and trying to make a FULL GAME is just rediculous like LOL or DOTA 2, so seeing this is a big disappointment and yet another question of why even bother

    So, what are your thoughts on this forum?
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  2. #2
    *checks the date to see if its April 1st*

    Bit early if it is

    That said if it IS true then it looks fairly fun; seems they are focusing on Blizzard IP for the content so anyone who's a starcraft, warcraft or other games by them fan is likely to get some fun out of it. Plus Blizzard are known for balance crazyness so it might also up the game for the other DOTA games on the market to improve their own internal balance.
    The only thing I will say is "Hurry up with HEART OF THE SWARM!"

    *and take online all the time requirements out of singleplayer Diablo 3*

  3. #3
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    Assumed ppl knew already, this was announced back in blizzcon last year. =/

  4. #4
    Yeah, isn't this the whole reason Blizzard and Valve were at it in a legal battle? It's nothing new, well, maybe the trailer is i don't know.
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  5. #5
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    The trailer came out in October, so no.

    From what I heard, this variant went even further than LoL and removed last hitting altogether.

  6. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #6
    Error Shifter Codex's Avatar
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    No last hitting? Will this still be DoTA? No creep denial, no last hitting... next thing you know they're going to remove sentry wards or something.

    I've spend hundreds of hours on the original WC3 mod. It was great fun at the time, but I don't think I would ever play it again. Although the competitive scene for this kind of game is massive, so no wonder people want to be tapping into it.
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  7. #7
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    Well, they aren't just cloning DotA. Nor do I believe this is an effort to make the thing for e-sport considerations. It's probably going to be used to spearhead the Heart of the Swarm Marketplace thing.

    http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Blizzard_DotA

    @OP
    The AoS/DotA genre can actually be very varied and interesting. The problem is, DotA became the dominant version as it was best supported over longest period of time, so all others died out and it became the template for cloning. Blizzard seems to be straying quite far from the said template.

    Hmm, this link seems to be a faster summary:

    http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...arcraft-2-mod/
    Last edited by konfeta; 30th Mar 12 at 6:53 AM.

  8. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #8
    Error Shifter Codex's Avatar
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    Well, it's a bit difficult not to think of it as a clone when the trailer is called

    BLIZZARD DOTA TRAILER

    :P

  9. #9
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    Meh, marketing. I liked it more when it was called AoS maps.

  10. #10
    What? No HoN/LoL flamewar on a MOBA topic?!

    mind = blown
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  11. #11
    I am a sun God Ammon Ra's Avatar
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  12. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #12
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    What? No HoN/LoL flamewar on a MOBA topic?!
    Nobody cares, clearly.

  13. #13
    Member Rivy's Avatar
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    No last hitting? Will this still be DoTA? No creep denial, no last hitting... next thing you know they're going to remove sentry wards or something.
    I actually like that. Last hitting is based on the mechanics of WC3 DOTA, which imo existed because of the base game limitations, and denying just sucks (that one of the things I hated when I tried DOTA2, among other details !).
    I think the problem is hardcore DOTA players hate change (just like Starcraft and Counter Strike players) so any change like this is met with "they are dumbing the game down".
    As long as new MOBAs can bring something new to the table, I say keep them coming n_n
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  14. #14
    Denying is actually one of the things that distances scrubs from pro's. It annoys me to no end in LoL that I have to allow a hero to gain exp and gold for free and I can't do anything to stop it.

  15. #15
    Pros and scrubs... that's funny since you said one aspect is knowing when to suicide to keep the enemy from benefiting from the battle. Let's be honest, you were probably the type to kill themselves in Planetside whenever you got low on health, just to 'deny' the enemy EXP. It's childish, simply put. You realize that you've lost in a situation and instead of being mature about it, you just pout and then merely delay the inevitable while denying the proper experience for other players. Despite what you may think, denial is not a tactic that will terribly cripple the enemy, it's a lame speedbump tactic at best.

  16. #16
    Member Rivy's Avatar
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    It annoys me to no end in LoL that I have to allow a hero to gain exp and gold for free and I can't do anything to stop it.
    I'd say you can stop it by zoning your enemy out. I find that it makes for a more entertaining laning phase, not having to focus so hard on the micro so you can spend more time harassing and poking.

  17. #17
    How is denying the enemy a possible advantage a 'childish' tactic? I hate 'lol such a scrub noob' players as much as the next guy, but it just sounds like you're whining against perceived lame tactics.

  18. #18
    I'm not whining, far from it. I just find the idea of suiciding to be laughable to the point I can't help but find it childish, trust me.

  19. #19
    Its funny because your point of view paints a picture of a guy shouting to his opponent NO YOU STAY STILL SO I CAN HIT YOU, which seems equally as childish to me. Denying the enemy in DOTA is an intended game mechanic, whether it fits in with your idea of fair gameplay or not. Complaining about not getting a kill because someone suicided is childish (and wrong) when it's an accepted and intended part of the game.

  20. #20
    No, that's how you are interpreting my context, which is not coming across properly due it being purely text. People wanna suicide to try and 'deny' me, fine, go ahead, I'll still fucking laugh to myself that they up and took what is in a way, the easy way out. I gave up whining like how you think I am long ago, instead, I find a sort of joy whenever I see such antics, because it tells me that the pros cannot handle losing at a game.

  21. #21
    @Nalkor - What? I never played Planetside, thank you very much. I know I missed alot but oh well.

    Denying is an intended mechanic in games when it's there for a reason. For example, DOTA 1, Valve's Dota 2, Heroes of Newearth. The game is not about kills only, it's about gaining experience and gold, which lets you get an advantage over the other team. Not using it properly will cripple both you and your team. In these games, and many others, it's not a rage mechanic just to annoy the other player. If you fail to notice this, I guess you're not a competetive player.

  22. #22
    I just don't play those kinds of games period because well, they never appealed to me to begin with. They might now since it's been several years, but I still listen to buddies of mine who go on and on about their matches. However, being informed that such a tectic is encouraged through mechanics actually makes the idea of it even more hilarious to me, that a rage mechanic is encouraged. Such actions have always come across as rather pointless to me, a few unique situations of it that are encouraged do little to make me think otherwise, even if I should given the circumstances of the game. As most of my gaming centers around FPSs, ARPGs, Turn Based Tactics and so forth, the idea of sacrificing a unit purely out of spite is a childish notion to me, and unless the unit has a big self-destruct thing going for it, my mentality is to try and keep it alive as long as I can.

    We may simply be arguing our own points perfectly, but our individual experiences on such actions through different genres (mine usually discourage such actions, LoL and such encourage them) make it difficult for the other to understand our own valid points.

    As for missing out on PlanetSide, I kinda did too, started after CC, waiting for PlanetSide 2 to be released.

  23. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #23
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    Denying yourself, at least in traditional DotA and HoN, is not something that easily attained. You shouldn't be so quick to label it as "childish" - it's a perfectly valid maneouvre for denying you XP if you're not good enough to get the last hit in.
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  24. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #24
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    I find folks who use the terms "pros" and "scrubs" tend to be elitist assholes.

    These games are built for an ultracompetitive scene so elitism and arrogance runs through the communities at an insane rate. Don't try to argue with "pros" as they're very set in their ways.

  25. #25
    And people who define themselves as casual can be equally as bad. Look at TF2 for example. It's chock full of casual elitists who scream like autistic children if you so much as mutter the word competitive. It's these same people that ruin team games by doing something useless and saying ITS ONLY A GAME LOL STOP BEING SO SRS.

    I despise both groups of people.

  26. #26
    I agree with Mokino. I don't mind a game being competitive or else it'd likely be boring, unless the genre was that awesome, but it can get to the point of obsession where other gamers are likely to say "Chill the fuck out a little."

  27. General Discussions Senior Member  #27
    Senior Member roflmao's Avatar
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    Hey, huge update on this: DoTa confirmed to be free to play!

    http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...y-with-a-twist

    What do you all think? Is f2p good for this game, or bad? I personally think it's awesome.

  28. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #28
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    Errr... Wrong Dota, dude.
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  29. #29
    Considering that the main leading DOTA are all free to play I see it more like they have to be free to play to actually get a foot hold on the key market.

    That said (and I admit I skim read) did they actually say what they were doing? I read a lot of stuff talking about actions they want to reward for and how it will be different to all other free to play games and something about facebook and steam -- but I didn't actually see a clear statement on what they were doing -- just lots of waffl.e

  30. #30
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    overmind2000 - DoTA 2 and Blizzard DoTA are different games. roflmao linked to DoTA 2, which is valve's game.

  31. General Discussions Senior Member  #31
    Senior Member roflmao's Avatar
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    Sorry.. *facepalm*

  32. #32
    Then again, if Blizzard wants to get into the market they ought to release it free too.

  33. #33
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    Sorry, did you just mention Free and Blizzard in the same sentence. You must be crazy

  34. #34
    No. I mentioned Activision and free in one sentence :P

  35. Child's Play Donor  #35
    I do hope for their sake its free, considering all their competition is free AND they are suing (spelling?) Valve for DOTA2 by their name? Yeaaah. Nothing is better at destroying any future relationship with mod makers for your games then them not releasing it for free (or Dirt Cheap).

  36. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #36
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    They are suing over the DotA name? I want to read this. Any link?

  37. Child's Play Donor  #37
    Sure, you can google a lot of articles but here is a quick one http://kotaku.com/5883938/blizzard-a...over-dota-name (If your really keen on reading the news on your favorit Game site I'm sure you can find some news about it :P There has not been any decision made over it but....)


    edit : Also according to the official site http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/map...mods/mods/dota its free to play as well if you owned starcraft 2 (Not directly but one can read between the lines in the FAQ)

  38. #38
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    So technically, its not free to play Sohtaraz as you need to own Starcraft 2.

  39. Child's Play Donor  #39
    Akranadas, quote from FAQ: Currently we plan to offer a way to play Blizzard DOTA for free, possibly by including it as part of the StarCraft II: Starter Edition. However, we have not yet determined what type of content restrictions would be placed on those playing for free. We're also discussing the possibility of offering exclusive content to players, such as special heroes for owners of Wings of Liberty™ and Heart of the Swarm™ (in regions with standard box business models, just for example), but this is also still to be determined. We'll announce more details once those decisions have been finalized.


    But... I have no idea what that means honestly. Sorry I should have quoted that earlier on the thread my bad.

  40. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #40
    ...and when the Kamas flow... Afoxi's Avatar
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    If anything I'm siding with Valve on that lawsuit, considering they have Icefrog. The last person to keep the mod updated?

  41. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #41
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    Which, um, doesn't mean anything with regards to copyright law, does it?

    It would come down to if/to what extent the mapmod itself (as in, the IP contained within) belongs to Blizzard depending on their terms of use/ownership of the Warcraft 3 editor used to create DotA - at a guess, at least.

    All I know is making a DoW mod with a load of made-up 40k characters, then taking those Warhammer 40,000 characters to another company and making a game would probably get GW's lawyers onto me (with reasonable cause, not even GW going "RAWR DESIST" like they are known to do). I mean, the characters and names within DotA were originally drawn from Blizzard's existing WC3 content (and their ingame universe). I have no idea if later heroes carried this trend on. This content was then ported, 1:1, to DotA 2.

    On the other hand, Valve have removed blatant references, renamed the sides involved in the conflict and so on. The hero names are still the same, though, no idea how much that would infringe IP rights.

  42. #42
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    Blizzard want to make it community property so no one actually can own the name DOTA.

  43. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akranadas View Post
    Blizzard want to make it community property so no one actually can own the name DOTA.
    If this is the case then my opinion will change.

  44. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #44
    The One Called Sailor Mun Mokino's Avatar
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    Gorb most of the characters had unique names not taken from Warcraft lore and many of their skills were also changed from the base game. DOTA recycled the models out of necessity due to how wc3 handled such things

  45. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #45
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    They were still distinctly WC3 characters that followed the naming conventions of the base game and I swear names were shared (though, more importantly, races and unit types were - Batrider is a relatively recent example of this).

  46. #46
    GENERIC Fantasy races and unit types being IP, such as ORC WITH BIG SWORD is probably the funniest thing I've ever heard.


    Edited for clarity, for those who missed the point.
    Last edited by Infidelicious; 24th Apr 12 at 5:50 PM.

  47. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #47
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    You're right, the Skaven race isn't a trademark-protected set if intellectual property devised and owned by Games Workshop. Except that they are, which makes this pretty funny, right?

  48. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #48
    The One Called Sailor Mun Mokino's Avatar
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    I'd argue WC3's are generic enough that they might not be offered the same protections.

    Part of the reason DOTA2 revamped the appearance of all of the characters was probably to avoid IP issues.

  49. #49
    If anything, Valve is as guilty of ripping off WC3 as Blizzard is with Warhammer.

    Also, the whole DOTA dispute - wasn't it said on these forums that if you don't protect your IP all the time, you lose the rights to it? Blizzard didn't seem to be particularly interested when Demigod was being released, or Heroes of Newearth OR League of Legends. Only now they noticed how popular those became, and what with Valve making their own dota (and succesfully, too) did they became jealous. In any case, DOTA is public dominion now, and shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked as it both means dota as in games, and as in game mode.

    You can't (or shouldn't be allowed) to take something from popculture that became popular (no matter its origins) and say it's yours because you were rich/fast enough to trademark it.

    Edit:

    @Gorb - you're right, Skaven race is protected. Generic rat-man races aren't.

  50. #50
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    I think he's referring to Elves, Orcs and Dwarfs Gorb.

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