Orcs Must Die 2 - Now with Co-Op

[Croaxleigh]

If you haven't played Orcs Must Die, you should probably be ashamed of yourself. If you have, prepare for a joygasm this summer when the sequel is released with co-op gameplay (featuring a new character, a "Sorceress" who uses magic and "mind control" to kill the orc hordes), new enemies, new traps and a new upgrade system.

A little more info here: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...t-pax-east.ars

And here's a trailer:

[WingedKagouti]

I'm definitely looking forward to this, OMD is a fun game.

Of course, something has to be done with what happens in the ending of OMD for a sequel to make sense. Then again, given the "War Mage"'s general understanding of magic...

[Saberdark]

Awesome. Loved the first one, was disappointed when they said they weren't working on another. This is pretty much exactly what I pictured in a sequel to it and summer is way sooner than I would have thought.

Ending is easily fixable. "Umm...about the whole magic disappearing thing...yeah, turns out I was wrong." He wasn't exactly the smartest guy on the block.

[Patman42x]

wicked. now i have to finish the first one sometime this year. This and Torchlight 2 will be amazing.

[Paladin]

Ending is easily fixable. "Umm...about the whole magic disappearing thing...yeah, turns out I was wrong." He wasn't exactly the smartest guy on the block.

That'd be a form of Deus ex Machina. It's considered really poor writing to start a continuation by contradicting the end of the previous installment. You can contradict implied events, but not explicit events. Besides, it'd be easier, more palatable to the fans, and just plain feel like less of a cheat to simply say someone opened a new portal because they wanted the magic back. With ebil warmage girl torn apart by her former minions, it would even make sense to do so.

[Rincewind]

Nice! I loved the first one, killing Orcs and comparing high scores, but it was definitely missing coop.

[Integrity]

Why does God love me so much? This news is arguably better than the XCOM2 announcement. I'll be dropping full price on this, probably x2 or 3.

[WingedKagouti]

That'd be a form of Deus ex Machina. It's considered really poor writing to start a continuation by contradicting the end of the previous installment. You can contradict implied events, but not explicit events. Besides, it'd be easier, more palatable to the fans, and just plain feel like less of a cheat to simply say someone opened a new portal because they wanted the magic back. With ebil warmage girl torn apart by her former minions, it would even make sense to do so.

It'd be just as justifiable by saying the "War Mage" fumbled the spell to close the rifts. It may have been a simple spell every War Mage knew, but given the magical understanding displayed by the "War Mage" I'd say it's reasonable to claim that he messed it up somehow.

[Gorb]

I cannot state how excited I am for this game. Couple this with TL2 and I'm going to be having fun.

That'd be a form of Deus ex Machina. It's considered really poor writing to start a continuation by contradicting the end of the previous installment. You can contradict implied events, but not explicit events. Besides, it'd be easier, more palatable to the fans, and just plain feel like less of a cheat to simply say someone opened a new portal because they wanted the magic back. With ebil warmage girl torn apart by her former minions, it would even make sense to do so.

Well then how would you explain it, given that you seem to think that a deus ex machina cannot be properly applied in the setting and context of said video game (which is completely non-serious, full of fourth-walling and the like?).

[Paladin]

It'd be just as justifiable by saying the "War Mage" fumbled the spell to close the rifts. It may have been a simple spell every War Mage knew, but given the magical understanding displayed by the "War Mage" I'd say it's reasonable to claim that he messed it up somehow.

Again, it would not. They already said that it worked in the ending of the first game. Going back on that later is a cheat, a form of Deus ex Machina.

Well then how would you explain it, given that you seem to think that a deus ex machina cannot be properly applied in the setting and context of said video game (which is completely non-serious, full of fourth-walling and the like?).

I already said how I would do it. Have someone open a new rift. The ending and lore strongly implied that the rift was not natural, that it had been opened from the side of the human world in the first place, so clearly nothing's stopping them from opening another one...

[Saberdark]

Isn't that the same thing though? I recall the ending saying magic was sealed away forever. Regardless, the setting is made up of sillyness so they could use pretty much anything as a justification and get away with it.

It occurs to me that it might be a prequel. The Warmage looks somewhat older than before and IIRC the evil sorceress used to be a member of the Order. Seems like this new character has a lot of her powers too, such as the mind control. Could be that the Warmage in this one is the younger version of the Mage who died at the beginning of the first one and he's teamed up with the Sorceress to fight off the horde.

[Gorb]

Again, it would not. They already said that it worked in the ending of the first game. Going back on that later is a cheat, a form of Deus ex Machina.


I already said how I would do it. Have someone open a new rift. The ending and lore strongly implied that the rift was not natural, that it had been opened from the side of the human world in the first place, so clearly nothing's stopping them from opening another one...

Except that, as Saberdark said, all magic had been sealed forever.

Going back on that, by your logic, is a cheat. Does that mean we should all avoid the sequel like the plague because they used magic as a deus ex machina in order to allow for a sequel, plot-wise?

[Trizzdog]

Orcs Must Die! 2 begins days after the ending of the original game. With the rifts closed and the magical Order dead, the War Mage finds himself suddenly thrust into a new battle against the mindless orc mob. He has a powerful, if questionable, new companion in the Sorceress, an ex-War Mage responsible for the destruction of the Order.

Something to consider while you guys speculate.

[Saberdark]

Heh, that'll show me for not reading descriptions and then wildly speculating.

[FriendlyFire]

Are we seriously discussing the story for a game which effectively could go without one? Here's something that passes for a gun, here's a ton of traps, go shoot Orcs. That's the game.

I'm just happy that Robot's doing well and that OMD2's coming out. Coop is going to add a whole new dimension to this game (and maybe motivate me to go past the first five levels...).

[Saberdark]

There is a demo out now on Steam. Lets you play part of the story as either character and I think it supports the co-op.

[Mokino]

It's Orcs Must Die, for the most part. Same gameplay (though the sorceress does have a somewhat different trap selection.)

[Mantaray]

got the pre-order during the sale. i put hours of fun into the first one, anecdotes and all. seriosuly good shit.

[Ewokz]

I spent so much time on this game, pre-ordered as soon as possible and I nabbed the 10% off.

Not too sure how much time I spent on the first one but it must have been at least 50 hours I think. Can't wait for this to release, 5 stars on nightmare here I come

Got to say I share pallys concern about the story, hopefully they explain some decent reason for the return of magic. Explaining it with how the rift was somehow sentient might be a start?
Plus the wizards never really had any idea what would happen if they closed the rifts.

[Mokino]

The demo already explains why the war mage and sorceress have magic again, though of course the actual reason for what occurs is kept hidden.

[Kirjava]

How about a Dolt Co-Op Challenge when this comes out? We can pair up and have a little competition, see who's best at gibbing Orcs. The winner gets to smell Bowkers.

[Ammon Ra]

i wonder what happens when bowkers looses...

[Methuselath]

We make bowkers smell bowkers. A nothing smells more bowkers than bowkers' own day-old socks.

PS: That means I'm on for the competition.

[Ewokz]

I'd be up for that, I played the original to death so it'd to be nice to test myself again someone else

[MagosMechanicus]

This thread made me pick up the original again and finish the campaign (bought this about the same time I bought Dungeon Defenders, which kinda lured me away because it had co-op). That reminded me how much fun it actually was, so now I'm definitely up for co-op in the sequel once release rolls around.

[Kirjava]

I reckon we've got enough for four, maybe five teams... Maybe we can push it up to six.

[Integrity]

IM AWFUL AT VIDEO GAMES

But actually, I wasn't half bad at OMD!, so I'd be in for this.

[konfeta]

So, anyone seen a list of all the bonus skulls? What I've seen so far:

1 skull for beating your previous high score
1 skull for beating a level
1 skull for beating a level with no rift damage taken
2 skulls for for beating a level without getting hit (note, that the staff shield upgrade doesn't let you get this if you use it to block an attack)


1 skull every X kills milestone.

Also, man are coinforges gimped on early levels. No where to put them.

[Integrity]

I've seen those plus 2 skulls for X kills milestone (big milestones and small milestones?) and 1 (/2?) skulls for improving your killstreak record.

Also there's a co-op one that I can't quite recall. It was called something to the tune of "Buddy Victory" or osmethne.

[Ewokz]

Anyone want to play some endless mode? I fancy trying to actually get above level 20, as most of my defences seem to fall apart around there. No idea how your meant to get to 100, the sheer hunter spam at level 19/20 is stupid even with ice/bladestaff. My poor guardians

I have managed to 5 skull Warmage though, currently into nightmare but it is quite the bastard. I've mostly been focusing on crossbow, mana amulet, lightening, ice amulet (sometimes), coin forge (sometimes), arrow walls, tar, brimstone, archers, paladins and barricades (sometimes). What're you guys running with?

I generally use magic and cross bow head shot spamming while my guardians and traps cover the other side of the map. Its far from perfect though, I usually have to keep an eye out for the inevitable troll/ogre/elemental spam. Which leads onto my main criticism so far, the game seems to designed for co-op, with a few levels being damn near impossible to do in SP due to the sheer amount of entry points, no idea how I'm going to five star "Crunch", I had serious enough problems with it in Warmage.

[Maktaka]

@Ewokz I'd be up for such an endeavor. I got to Wave 18 last night with some middling equipment on the first endless map. It would be interesting to see how far one can get with two players active (and some more upgrades to my traps).

Edit: Ow my index finger. The charm staff is brutal on one's digits with all the trigger holding to charge it up. I need to buy that crossbow if only to have a mana-less weapon that doesn't hurt so forking much.

[konfeta]

I'd love to use barricades, but dear God, they spam Kamikazes so much more often now. Just not a worthwhile investment except for last ditch emergencies.

[Thorno]

I'm up for any Orc killing shenanigans.

[Ewokz]

konfeta fully upgrade them and they can take a ton of hits, they can also heal too.

[Integrity]

BARGH Ewokz and I managed to get to wave 22 or 23 before I went to school. I need more skulls to upgrade my gear better. Fortunately, grinder arrays are still wonderful.

@Maktaka: That scepter is so nasty on the digits but so very useful for so very many reasons. I hate it.

[Ewokz]

Yeah the knol hunter spam at around 20 is kinda stupid too, I was mucking about with combinations a lot so we might be able to get further with more complementary items. A level without the rift I've found is way tougher too, need a whole item slot or just waiting for potions to survive for a decent period. Need to get a fire amulet for the ice ogres really (head shotting 3 of them is problematic), and the ice amulet is too good to pass up, plus with all that I kinda need the mana trinket. Only get like 6 slots too :/

EDIT: Just managed to hit wave 43, no doubt could have gone higher if I'd picked up 'shrooms. Coinforges really help in the early game, and autobalistas are great for knol and big thing killing throw in some tar traps and arrow walls and the enemy gets pretty destroyed. I replaced the coinforges with tar traps when I ran out of room, as they aren't to useful when you've filled every available space.

[Maktaka]

Wait, tar traps? Those aren't in the game. Which is a shame, because those stupid Kobolds run so fast they can get by most traps before they trigger, and I relied on tar traps in OMD1 to slow them down enough for trigger-traps to hit them.

[konfeta]

Maktaka, you must have betrayed the Warmage for that hussy.

Shameful.

konfeta fully upgrade them and they can take a ton of hits, they can also heal too.

Upgrading only lowers their cost IIRC, and you have to choose between the HP upgrade and the regeneration upgrade. And kamikazees still plow right through them.

[Skrzyp]

Anyone have any tips for the Upstairs Downstairs level on solo? It's really annoying having an exit right close to two entrances with now way to even block off one side.

[Weavern]

Skzyp, easiest method I found was to use lightning aoe, and juggle the downstairs while building up sufficent defences for downstairs to protect itself. You then either need to stagger or build defences to stop the wave 12 ogres while doing similar. Crossbow+thunder = awesome! Headshots tend to make short work of most ogres.

Off topic, does anyone else feel like the game just abruptly ends? I was playing and expecting an act 3, and just got an ending....

[Goobers]

Anyone have any tips for the Upstairs Downstairs level on solo?

I built a little fort full of archers and a couple of dwarves at the bottom gate and they agro'd and killed off pretty much everything that came through the doors. You can also block off a side at the flat area on the stairs with about 3 barricades, just don't block both off so they attack them. I'd also carry the Fire and Ice rings to quickly deal with the ogres, but once I built that fort around the lower gate instead of trying to block off all the access routes the map became very easy.



Also, the Blunderbuss is awesome, easily one of the best, if not the best weapon available.

[konfeta]

Hm, I like the Blunderbuss for the part where it doesn't need upgrades to make use of it's primary attack. Mana and skulls betters spent on other spells IMO. Its DPS seems to be the lowest for Warmage weapons, though. Also, why does it knock back without the knockback perk? Doesn't that make that specific perk useless?

Anyone using Trinkets? I like the mana one (back to back lightning storms is win), I tried the Trap Reset one (but didn't notice any difference).

Also, I decided barricades are usable against kamikazees, just need cleverly placed archers behind them.

[Integrity]

I dealt with Sappers by having cleverly placed Brimstone in front of my 'cades.

The Trap Reset trinket looks pretty neat (and seems to help) but doesn't seem to affect Grinders one bit so I don't use it anymore.

[Mokino]

Brimstone is just incredibly useful in general.

I'm running (on the sorceress) with staff, alchemist satchel, barricade, brimstone, acid sprayer, autoballistas and paladins currently. Sometimes switch out the paladin or satchel for a trinket.

[Skrzyp]

Thanks for the help. In the end I made some killzones downstairs with maces/tar/arrow traps supported by some archers in the middle.
Anything going upstairs was killed by a combination of ice ring/crossbow/old tyme shottegunne

[WingedKagouti]

Brimstone + Tar in front of the various doors/entrances is my basic setup. It's not perfect, but it stops a lot of the Kobold Sappers.

Edit:
The traps/weapons not shared between the War Mage and the Sorceress are
Arrow Wall <-> Acid Sprayer
Tar <-> Ice Vent
Healing Well <-> Mana Well
Blunderbuss <-> Sceptre of Domination
Dwarven Hammer <-> Polymorph Ring

[Ewokz]

The polymorph ring is a life saver in endless mode by the sound of it, the ability to turn the big stuff into orcs will probably stop a ton of the larger things from making it past your defences.

Plus if all else fails, turn into an ogre yourself and rip them to pieces while your partner chain stuns and freezes them.

[Thorno]

why does it knock back without the knockback perk? Doesn't that make that specific perk useless?

The knock back perk lets it knock back the bigga monstas amirite? Very useful.

On Upstairs Downstairs I refunded my skulls and just spammed maxed out Archers and Paladins right at the entrances, it was glorious.

[Ewokz]

Me and Thorno had a few games earlier on one of the endless levels, managed to hit 39 twice but couldn't make it to 40 for the 5th skull. Man I hate those Cyclops mages.

[Weavern]

So far solo, i've managed to consistently get to wave 42-43 on endless #1, with arrow, tar, spike, spring, lightning, crossbow and the inferno floor vent. Solo I definatly highly recommend the healing talisman. Still trying to finda consistent way to get past the 40s, they just thro too many large creatures for my trap setup to kill. Maybe fully upgraded spore traps ould provide a better foil, but the DPS just drops off due to the wave. Perhaps need to go spring/abyss.

Anyone have any good combos for endless waves? I hear sorc polymorph ring works rather well especially on earth lords.

WRT coop, I find it exceedingly annoying how few traps you have access to. 6 slots? I mean I know you are trying to get people to work togeather but essentially you only gain 2 trap slots between you compared to solo. Yes you might have more dps due to a second player, but the enemies are stronger.