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So, Arizona plans to ban trolling...

  1. #51
    Member TDATL's Avatar
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    You thought Grammar Nazis were bad before? Now when you "annoy" or "offend" them with your imperfect grammar and spelling they will be able to call the law on you.

    A whole new level of trolling.
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  2. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #52
    Error Shifter Codex's Avatar
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    You thought Grammar Nazis were bad before? Now when you "annoy" or "offend" them with your imperfect grammar and spelling they will be able to call the law on you.

    A whole new level of trolling.
    No, Grammar Nazis moving to Arizona to exploit the new law would be a whole new level of trolling :P
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  3. #53
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    That point is moot.

    One could simply claim that the 'Grammar Nazis' are "annoying" or "offending" oneself.
    It takes a lot of argument
    to convince most people
    that they are lying.

  4. #54
    I found your post to be 'annoying' LoCo, get ready for Arizone style police justice!

  5. #55
    Member Carl's Avatar
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    @Moe: Ohhh I’m fine with that kind of thing being covered, but as buguba points out this law is pretty broad, in fact applying any existing harassment laws to the internet results in them being too broad. Starfisher really touched on what I was saying much better. There are so many situations where weather something is offensive enough to be considered harassment is so subjective on the internet that it all falls apart. I agree there are some obvious situations where the loopholes need to be closed (as you pointed out). But many laws like this aren't just targeting those loopholes.

    It also still doesn’t address the international issue. Virtually every internet law ever is going to fall afoul of this sooner or later because people can safely do things from beyond the reach of the law. This used to be the purview of big crime bosses and nobody else. Now depending on your own country and where the target lives anyone right down to the average joe can do it. he greatest issue policing has had since it's inception just became mainstream.
    I don't know what i'm talking about, ignore me.

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  6. #56
    Member TDATL's Avatar
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    Don't think you are safe LoCo. The US already extradited one New Zealander about their internet activities and US law absolutely loves precedent.


  7. #57
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt they are going to clog the justice system in Arizona with petty Internet taunts. You guys are taking it to the extreme and thinking it'll be fact.

  8. #58
    I've seen this defense a lot lately. Just because they put an absurd provision in a law doesn't mean they'll bother to enforce it! Well maybe they wont, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a bad thing to have on the books. Having it there sets a bad precedent, and nothing is stopping someone from having it enforced if they want it to be.
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  9. #59
    Wait wait, you saying that i will be able to sue, if i'm annoyed by someone. So what if i think this law is trolling and annoying me, i can sue the law maker for trolling me with a stupid law?
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  10. Modding Senior Member Dawn of War II Senior Member  #60
    For the First Time in Forever Buguba's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt they are going to clog the justice system in Arizona with petty Internet taunts. You guys are taking it to the extreme and thinking it'll be fact.
    Of course not. At some level, like with any law, the offence has to be serious enough for the party in question to bring it to the courts. Considering the amount of money involved with prosecution and defense, the likelihood that anyone will be tried on the grounds of an annoying Facebook post is about zero to none.

    Like Siber said though, its existence still sets a bad precedent. It shows a lack of understanding on the part of Arizona's government concerning how the internet operates. Moreover, in a genuine case of harassment, it significantly lowers the standard for what a "reasonable person" would have to deal with. In some ways though, this is almost like the PATRIOT act (albeit an extreme example). The likelihood that the government would ever tape your phone calls is about zero to none. That doesn't change the fact that it can happen.
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  11. #61
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    Most Countries already have Online victimisation laws which this amendment essentially is.

  12. Child's Play Donor Technical Help Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #62
    Hydra's Super Marshal GeoffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buguba
    There is absolutely nothing about this proposed amendment that is unusual or excessively draconian. The only surprising thing is that it has taken Arizona so freaking long to update their laws.
    Yes, there is. I'll highlight it for you in case you missed it:
    This would make it a "class 1 misdemeanor" for any person to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy, or offend someone else by use of an electronic or digital device.
    This makes the law SIGNIFICANTLY more broad than any other international harassment laws.
    I didn't miss anything, but apparently you did... Instead of just posting what I thought was the real information, I actually checked what other US federal and state laws said, and found that "annoy" is used in federal law, as well as a lot of state laws, like Massachusets, Arkansas, Delaware, Hawaii, New York, and Pennsylvania (and that is just from the states I checked, there may be others as well). So, as I said, there is nothing unusual about this at all. Your thread title is misleading and needlessly panic inducing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TDATL
    You thought Grammar Nazis were bad before? Now when you "annoy" or "offend" them with your imperfect grammar and spelling they will be able to call the law on you.

    A whole new level of trolling.
    This is just so ridiculously wrong that it is not even funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buguba
    Like Siber said though, its existence still sets a bad precedent.
    It doesn't set any precedent at all. It simply brings Arizona into line with other states and federal law.


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  13. Modding Senior Member Dawn of War II Senior Member  #63
    For the First Time in Forever Buguba's Avatar
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    Most Countries already have Online victimisation laws which this amendment essentially is.
    You're right. I'm actually really sorry about all this too, because it looks like all of this is significantly less of an issue than I thought it was. I went around doing more research on the matter to see if there were any other state laws that were similar to this Arizona amendment, and the majority them are just about identical. Just as I was about to write some big response on how you were wrong too.

    I'm sorry you guys, it looks like I made this out to be a bigger deal than it really is. Maybe I've watched one too many TV shows where the justice system gets so wrapped up on one little word that the bad guy gets away. My mistake.

    I didn't miss anything, but apparently you did... Instead of just posting what I thought was the real information, I actually checked what other US federal and state laws said, and found that "annoy" is used in federal law, as well as a lot of state laws, like Massachusets, Arkansas, Delaware, Hawaii, New York, and Pennsylvania (and that is just from the states I checked, there may be others as well). So, as I said, there is nothing unusual about this at all. Your thread title is misleading and needlessly panic inducing.
    You're right. I think I got sucked into the whole ZOMG GOVURNMENT WANTS TO CONTROL TEH INTERWEBZ thing. I posted this before I saw your response, but you're still correct.

    If anyone else has any doubts, take a look at some of the harassment laws throughout the United States here: http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/...ment-laws.aspx . The majority of states cover the concept of "annoyance" through electronic devices or otherwise in their laws. I apologize for the misinformation.

  14. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #64
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    Glad that's been cleared up.

    Of course not. At some level, like with any law, the offence has to be serious enough for the party in question to bring it to the courts. Considering the amount of money involved with prosecution and defense, the likelihood that anyone will be tried on the grounds of an annoying Facebook post is about zero to none.
    Just out of interest, I don't really know what classification of misdemeanour it would come under. I was wondering surely these misdemeanours, at least with the less extreme cases, could be handled with an immediate fine? In the UK system cases are divided into two categories- those that are dealt with out of court with a summary fine and those that are required to go to court (indictments). Is there a similar classification under the US system? Even if they were to start clamping down on offenders, I doubt it would create a huge number of extra court cases. They just generally don't seem to big enough deals to waste the court's time. Plus all the legal expenses? Sheesh.

  15. #65
    Member TDATL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffs
    This is just so ridiculously wrong that it is not even funny.
    awww! I was aiming for the funny. I know I should have included a smiley of some sort but none of them seemed to fit the mood I was aiming for.

  16. #66
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    Some people here do not have any sense of humour at all, it's true, TDATL.

    And frankly, I'm very surprised a word as vague as "annoy" has precedent for being used in laws. It just strikes me as being too open to interpretation.
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  17. #67
    Disciple of Khaine darkelf's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt they are going to clog the justice system in Arizona with petty Internet taunts. You guys are taking it to the extreme and thinking it'll be fact.
    Oh, it might not be common. But it will be possible to do that. The law just says that someone has to be offended or even annoyed, doesn't have to be the intended recipient. It makes a great tool for getting someone punished if you can't find anything else on them, just dig up a facebook post and say it offended or annoyed you and suddenly they're a criminal.
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  18. Child's Play Donor Technical Help Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #68
    Hydra's Super Marshal GeoffS's Avatar
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    @darkelf, that's not what the law says at all. Unless the prosecution can prove that you intended to cause offence then there is no crime. It's quite clear in the text of the proposed amendment, please read it.

  19. #69
    White Knight Police Black's Avatar
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    Hi can we stop talking about law as if we have no fucking idea how it works. Seriously you guys interpret laws in the most naive ways.
    Last edited by Black; 6th Apr 12 at 11:47 AM.

  20. General Discussions Senior Member  #70
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    Still not sure how this doesn't cover Westboro Baptist Church.

  21. Child's Play Donor Technical Help Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #71
    Hydra's Super Marshal GeoffS's Avatar
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    The Westboro Baptist Church is probably sitting right on the borderline of legality with a lot of their shit. It would be an interesting test case if they were to be prosecuted under the federal statute, but it's probably not going to happen soon. Government agencies tend not to like taking on risky or borderline cases for fear of creating case law precedents.

  22. #72
    TBH I think Arizona is just being meta as hell.
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