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The Fitness Thread!

  1. #51
    Member PetarB's Avatar
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    Shorinkan Shorin-Ryu <- link to my dojo's website, which, coincidentally, I happened to design, develop and maintain.

  2. #52
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    nice! i'm a hayashi-ha shito-ryu guy, although i've also dabbled in shotokan, and have trained with people of other styles (and i also trained a couple of styles of kung fu).
    I'm short and misanthropic. I'll bite your nipples off.

  3. #53
    Member Inquisitor Lok's Avatar
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    Having a super awesome metabolism has always helped me keep thin despite my lack of consistent exercise. I swear i try and begin to work out my upper body regularly 3-4 times a year whenever school begins to die down and get a good groove on for a few weeks then i stop for many weeks on end once things start picking up. The only form of excercise i seem to be able to keep up for more then 2-3 weeks is running. And even then i only tend to when its nice outside in the spring and summer as i cant stand running on the elliptical i have... During the summer ill typically run roughly 12km every other day in about an hour which always feels beyond amazing. My only problem is that i cant sustain running when it becomes quite cold out or begins to snow as i run on trails by my house, which is the main reason i think i enjoy running so much (the beautiful changing scenery)

    For those gamers who get bored with most exercise and aren't really turned on by or good at the usual traditional sports, I can't recommend paintball highly enough for getting out and running around all day without even noticing the exercise you're getting. Same applies to airsoft or RAM. I found that my years of FPS gaming actually did help. Try something new and interesting and you might just kick butt at it. Turns out I'm pretty darn good (by NZ standards) at close quarters gunfights!
    Haha i just got into airsoft about a month ago after a friend finally convinced me to buy a rifle in a clearance sale. I must say the one game ive been to was an absolute blast and i cant wait for exams to be over to go a hell of a lot of more often. The game i went to was relatively slow paced (it was a zombie themed game xD) but holding an 8lb SCAR in a ready position for 3-4 hours nearly constantly was one hell of a work out xD. Also i will also chime in with paintball being fun too

  4. #54
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    damn, that's a fair bit running! most i've done is just under 5 km, back in time immemorial when i still had lungs worthy of the name

  5. Child's Play Donor General Discussions Senior Member  #55
    Long distance runner Harmanoff's Avatar
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    I'm firmly rooted in the weights are BORING-camp. Both free weights and machines, i cannot comprehend how people put up with that kind of activity. Good for those that see the charm in it of course.

    Something happened to me around the time i turned 25 or maybe 26. I don't know why but suddenly i started to enjoy running so now i do that. Another few years ahead and i realized biking is the only way to travel. And then finally two years ago or so i realized gym classes is the only form of strength-building excersize i don't hate. You just sign up, go there, follow orders for an hour and your done. Perfect.

    I too had a spinal disc injury a few years back and unless i keep my abdomen strength up it will get progressively worse. And these days i play classic guitar for hours on end which means sitting down which is typically bad for the spinal discs. So.. there is no option to working out.


    Socrates: To be is to do.
    Sartre: To do is to be.
    Sinatra: Do be do be do.

  6. General Discussions Senior Member  #56
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    There's something about lifting more weight than you ever have before that's pretty cool. I found weights terribly boring until I discovered a sensible program that resulted in real strength gains. Fucking around with a weight for a while is boring, but if after a month you're fucking around with 50lbs+ more weight, it's a lot of fun.

    Kind of like leveling up, except you're getting bigger instead of a number somewhere in memory.

  7. #57
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    @harmanoff: if i might make a suggestion, the single best thing you can probably do for your abdominal strength is gymnastics training (particularly ring work). no weights, either, generally, unless it's stuff like a weighted vest or belt while doing pull-ups or ring work, which isn't really any different to the original drills, just harder. gymnasts as a rule have inhumanly strong core muscles, so if you find an affordable school nearby, or have the patience to try out some basic exercises at home (always paying 500% attention to safety parameters, of course), it might be worth checking out .

    examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ80DDIeNE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EKWhquE_uQ

    there are also some highly recommended bodyweight training programs called "you are your own gym" and "convict conditioning", which might be of interest.

    ----------

    to add to what starfisher said: one thing that is of utmost importance in all strength training is technique, for reasons of both efficiency and safety. this means that for optimal training you must learn (i like learning) about technique, and how it relates to the physics of the exercise in relation to your anatomy (i like both physics and anatomy), which means that when you do an exercise correctly, you're paying attention to multiple details and making multiple small tweaks to make sure you're doing it right (which keeps me busy, and busy means not bored). in fact there are a lot of exercises, such as olympic lifts like the clean or the snatch, or a lot of kettlebell lifts, that simply can't be done at all if you don't pay attention to technique (which provides a challenge, which i enjoy). and lastly, heavy exercise results in the release of both happiness related chemicals (iirc the specific one is serotonin) and testosterone (serotonin = "WHEEEEEEE", and testosterone = "FUCK YEAH!!!"). therefore, lifting weights makes me feel good.

    plus, i can pick up from the ground any given person from within 90+% of the world's population (barring a relatively few extremely large people), whereas i am 5 feet tall and weight around 130-ish pounds (1.50 mts, 57 kilograms). so i also feel fucking badass, even though i'm not even really very strong yet .

    ----------

    random strong people video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GWzi...eature=channel

    strong people are strong.

  8. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Modding Senior Member  #58
    Adventure Time Ira Aduro's Avatar
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    I just an android app called Calorie Counter. You tell it what your height/weight is, how much a week you want to lose, and it tells you how many calories you need to consume. You input what you eat and it tracks against your calorie limit. People are constantly adding foods and you can share your goals and progress with friends. So my wife and I have started doing that as well as going to the gym. I started up a ride class and it is an excellent way to burn through 400 calories or more in an hour. I go to the gym at least three times a week and the days I'm not doing ride class I read a good book while doing the exercise bike. Got through the second book in Song of Ice and Fire this way. It's a win win for me since I want to lose 20lbs and I want to read more. In the end though for me it's less about a certain weight and about being trim.

    having a garden/yard to work in is a good way to get active as well.

  9. #59
    I'm genetically inclined to be a skinny Asian nerd. I am 6'1" and used to be 152 lbs (69 kgs) in college. I tried to weight-train intermittently, y'know to not look like a beanpole. It's at this time that I mained only big guys in fighting games, as a personal motivator. You can also see why I chose Orkz when I started Dawn Of War.

    But it's not until I moved to Asia that I started weight-training regularly, ironically, since I didn't expect Asia to be big into muscleman gyms. Now I'm in Singapore and gyms come standard with any condo complex. You literally take an elevator to the ground floor and there's a gym. I prefer the staff gym at my workplace, though. Bigger, air conditioned, 3 TVs (I enjoy A Minute To Win It...), and lots of girls.

    After 3-4 years of this now, I'm now at 159 lbs (72 kgs) and I feel like I'm 1 of the stronger guys in that gym, though I look skinnier. I think because I'm intelligent about my routines and I work all groups, rather than just try to impress some imaginary onlookers with bench presses. My goal is to look like Bruce Lee, because I don't think my body type can exceed that.

    My usual routine:

    -- Military/Incline Press, Flys
    -- Pull Ups
    -- Free-weight Rows

    -- Calf Presses, Squats
    -- Deltoid exercises
    -- Some minor routines when I feel like it, such as Abs.

    I have background in Tai Kwon Do, but I want to practice Boxing with a sandbag, as a fun way to work out my forearms and hands... but it's ridiculously expensive to buy and hard to find in Singapore. Sad face.

    I'm currently taking the following supplements, though at much less than the printed dosage. Anyone have any comments on them?
    -- L-arginine/ L-ornithine
    -- Whey protein/ Amino acids
    -- Tribulus Terrestris extract
    -- Jack3d
    -- Universal GH Max

    I have Universal Creatinine but afraid to use it. :P

  10. General Discussions Senior Member  #60
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    I've never seen a supplement that had proven effects beyond those you could get just by eating real food. I mean, unless you're taking anabolics or growth hormone. Basically, if it's in a supplement, it probably doesn't do anything, because if it did, it would be banned by competitive organizations. Eat more meat and liver and you probably won't need the supps. Although some people do seem to like caffeine as a workout enhancer. Can't hurt unless you OD and give yourself a heart attack.

    If you want to be big, you have to eat big. Gaining 7lbs in three years isn't getting big, but then again you're talking about Bruce Lee as your goal body, which isn't really getting big, just ridiculously lean. So you're probably right on track! If super-leanness is your goal, check out Leangains for some ideas.

    For reference, I'm 6'3" and weighed ~160 in late 2009. Now I weigh ~190, and this is actually fairly pathetic progress in terms of weight gain. I'm not quite as lean as I was, but I'm still in the 10% BF range. If you asked me in 2008, I would have said the same thing you just did, that I was a genetically skinny nerd and it would be impossible to gain any muscle mass. This is false. You're skinny because you don't eat a lot, which is probably because you're like me and think you eat a lot and feel full. But believe me, you're not eating a lot of food. I've been there, been told this and ignored it because I was different, but eventually I realized it was true.

    If size is your goal, pick up a copy of Starting Strength, do the big four lifts and overeat like crazy for a couple months. After you've gained 40lbs and are lifting 200% of your previous maxes, you'll have some experience being fat and strong and can make decisions based on that. If you're a skinny fucker like me, losing all that gained mass will NOT be a problem. Just go back to eating and lifting like you normally did and it'll melt off over a couple of months.
    Last edited by Starfisher; 11th Apr 12 at 5:07 AM.

  11. #61
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    Whilst buying the food groups needed to put on the weight is certainly suggested, sometimes its simply not cost effective so am I wasting my money on this starfisher?

    http://www.supplement-reviews.co.uk/...-iso-7-review/
    Its what im using pre / post workout.

  12. #62
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    what starfisher said.

    re: the weights routine: while your routine is not bad, per se, to grow you need a shitton of heavy muscle stimulation (although do bear in mind this applies IF you want to grow a shitton of muscle and/or strength). the best way to do this is to use as many muscles as you can at the same time to move heavy shit (contraction of a muscle helps nearby muscles contract harder as well). the best way to do this is to do heavy compound lifts, the biggest of which are the squat, deadlift and bench press (often called "the big three", since they're the ones used to compete in powerlifting). other monster compound lifts include the barbell row, the overhead press, and the olympic weightlifting lifts, like the snatch and the clean and jerk (and the ones not used in competition like the power clean and power snatch).

    once you have done those compound lifts, which essentially depend on the strength of the weakest link in your kinetic chain, then you use assistance exercises to hit the rest, a lot of which are compound moves as well (pull-ups and dips, for example, other lifts like dumbbell or kettlebell variants, atlas stones, etc, and some machine lifts). isolations, like curls and calf raises, are mostly "vanity lifts", so to speak, in that most people have no need to do them (although they can help with certain things), and in that they can not replace big compound lifts. pro bodybuilders, who use performance enhancing drugs to increase both their capacity to exercise, and their capacity to recover from exercise, which is much more important, have work capacities that are physiologically unsustainable for most non-juiced people (unless they're elite level already), so they can spend their entire day fucking around with isolations to help specific muscles grow, or simply to get in that little extra oomph everywhere after they've done their compounds.

    they still do heavy compounds, though.

    here's ronnie coleman, a pro BB-er who's juiced to the gills, doing an 800 lb deadlift: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI5bCcPQN1k (ignore the yelling and fucking around, that's bascially motivation that helps the guy lift more weight. and that's fucking HEAVY)

    here's layne norton, a 'natural' (ie no roids) BB-er, doing a 675 lb deadlift: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgD581bhSB0

    here's a pic of franco columbu, a bodybuilder from arnie's era, deadlifting around 700+ lbs: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qWfhpO6oxJ...0/columbu2.jpg

    here's a pic of reg park, bodybuilder from before steroids existed, who most definitely did not do mostly isolations: http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2.../image002b.jpg

    and here's the before and after of eric cressey, a well-known guy in the fitness community for his health-oriented approach to lifting, who has a 600 lb deadlift:
    before: http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2...sey-before.jpg
    after: http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2...esseyAfter.jpg
    (source: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ons_100_pounds)

    basically, if you want to grow, you have to lift heavy, and eat and sleep enough to fuel growth while you recover. lifting heavy means getting stronger, so you need to get strong before you even start getting big anyway, and getting stronger means full-body compound exercises, which in weightlifting means squat, bench and deadlift (and in bodyweight training means really hard shit like gymnastic ring work, one-arm pushups, one-arm pullups, one-leg squats, etc, which can also be done with extra weight).

    also, here are two more random videos of strong people:

    strong wimminz:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjuULPqI-WY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NpC2...eature=related (<3 iceland annie)

    strong manz:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_A4q50xZpU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n3BdkWEDZ0 (80 kilogram dumbbell)

  13. General Discussions Senior Member  #63
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    Hrm. Well, it depends on your local food costs I guess. I recall meat being a bit more expensive in the UK than it is here, but even so, in principle anything that goes through a ton of processing and concentrating is probably going to be more expensive than the original ingredients.

    Let's take a look:

    PhD Synergy ISO: 2000g for $70.

    So a tub has 1.1kg protein.

    To get that same amount of protein, you'd need ~4.1kg of steak. In the US, for a decent cut, that would be $5/lb, so you'd end up with ~$45 spent on steak.

    Meat has basically all the stuff that this particular blend contains, except for the carbs. Toss in some potatoes (cheap everywhere) and some vegetables and you have that covered. The super-doses of creatine you won't get from a steak, though, so if you're really interested in that you can buy creatine on the side for pretty cheap. At least in the US you can.

    Of course, this analysis assumes you're only eating the supplement, which hopefully is not the case! Realistically, you're paying that $70 on top of what you already eat. On a true meat and vegetables (potatoes count here too) diet, you'll already be eating your supplement, basically. If you can tolerate dairy, full-fat milk can act as your mass-gainer "supplement" on top of your nutritionally complete high-protein "real food" plan.

    But let's step back from that for a moment. Where are you in your training history, realistically assessed? My personal take on supplements is that they might help you push past a genetic barrier, but are pointless for people who haven't gotten there yet. Have you truly exhausted the gains you can get from just basic programming and diet? Probably not. Most people haven't. Unless you're training at an elite level in a sport or are already squatting a couple hundred pounds, consistent programming and high-protein/"real food" dieting is all you really need to progress. Supplements are popular because they promise faster results or have made people believe that normal food isn't enough to get you strong. But neither of those two things are true, really. The supplements that actually work are called "steroids", and people have been getting ridiculously strong and big for a hundred thousand years without whey-protein isolate and creatine.

    So my recommendation would be to save that $70 and spend it on more meat and vegetables. If you can stomach organs like liver, you can even get mega-doses of various vitamins and minerals for pretty cheap, if that's your thing.

  14. #64
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    on the nutrition side, this is a really interesting article that, while aimed at bodybuilders, who have specific needs as regarding weight loss and weight gain, still goes into great detail as regarding the nutritional science involved, and is thus a worthwhile read for anyone inclined to start watching what they eat, since the info can simply be reverse-engineered and applied to non-bodybuilding diets: http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-...ting-diet.html

  15. #65
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    If only more women wasnt afraid of doing some weight lifting. Keep toned, have alittle strength of there own instead of just letting there bodies go.
    So many fatties in the UK.

    -Edit
    The food I usually eat is white rice, pasta, roast/boiled potatoe with veg, the meat side of my diet is pretty much chicken, Ill have to look into getting some steaks. As for how far im in my program, afew months ago I caught a nasty case of acute toncilitus, lost 2stone and dropped to 11stone, which made me look a mess so Ive only recently gotten back into training and your right, im one of those who saw this protien/creatine suppliment and though -easy peasy.

    It definatly helps in the recovery area and I am noticing differences between when I was discharged from hospital and now, back upto 13stone atleast =D.
    Deadlifting 50kg, asmuch as my bar can handle, benching 30kg on all 3 bench workout types -decline/incline & standard. kickbacks for 7.5kg, military press for 15kg. Little baby steps but you got to start somewhere right?

    As for when I train, atleast 5 times a week. This is were a training partner would be handy, work off of one another but atm its a no go.
    Last edited by DeafMute; 11th Apr 12 at 6:27 AM.

  16. #66
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    when i'm king of the world, it will be mandatory for all women to lift weights as soon as they can walk

  17. General Discussions Senior Member  #67
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    I can sympathize with the sickness stuff. My freshman year of college, I was ~137lbs and had active Crohn's. I remember thinking how awesome it would be to be able to bench press 135lbs (the bar + a 45lb plate on each end), and never quite getting there. Now that's a trivial warm up

    Just gotta keep at it, keep adding weight. If your bar can only handle 50kg, time to get a new bar!

  18. Child's Play Donor General Discussions Senior Member  #68
    Long distance runner Harmanoff's Avatar
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    Fish of doom:

    Bodyweight training is exactly what i like! Aside from running and cycling that is. On some excersises i will use free weights but in general they are light and i go for large numbers of reps instead. The typical strategy for the classes i do is 45 seconds of intense work, 15 seconds rest or change of excersize, then repeat twice. With 10 different excersizes that's 30 minutes of efficient training. To me thats the sweetspot where i feel a good return on my effort without feeling bored.

  19. #69
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    @harmanoff: definitely see if you can get some gymnastics strength training, then. the gains in strength are ENORMOUS.

    if you wanna try some stuff out at home, you can start with some basic isometric holds on the floor (see this for some basic instructions and info). it takes a SHITTON of time, compared to weights, but it works, and it works well.

  20. #70
    It would be a waste of time for gained mass to just melt away once I returned to eating and lifting "normal amounts". Given my insane metabolism that's most likely what would happen. If that's the case I'm happy with my progress right now.

    I do have a question about the compound lifts you're describing... ok, bench press I can get behind -- big pecs. Squats too -- hard legs. But, deadlift? Why would I want to risk injuring my back in order to get big lower back muscles? I'm not a manual laborer and my weight-training is for vanity and fun. Why would I train myself to be able to deadlift weights? That wouldn't give me bigger arms and pecs. To burn calories? I don't need to burn calories my baseline metabolism handles that just fine.

  21. #71
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    Core strength? balance when you lovingly stare at yourself in the mirror?
    What use is your vanity training if your upper and lower parts are massive but your back/gut are lackluster?

    Oh and if you feel youre risking injury, deadlift at a lower weight, worst thing that can happen to any weight trainer is downtime due to an injury.

  22. General Discussions Senior Member  #72
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    Given my insane metabolism that's most likely what would happen. If that's the case I'm happy with my progress right now.
    You don't have insane metabolism. You have a stunted appetite.

    You sound exactly like me from 3-4 years ago. I know this is futile, because at the time I would have dismissed any random internet guy telling me that I wasn't a special case in terms of leanness, because I KNEW that I had a ridiculous metabolism. I mean I ate whatever I wanted and I was skinny! But really, it's true: you just don't eat as much as other people on a consistent basis. Really. It's hard to believe, I know. But that's it.

    If you want to build muscles, you need to stress your body. It's a fairly common meme in strength circles that if you want big biceps you have to deadlift - not because deadlifts work biceps directly, but because they are so stressful that your entire body gets a burst of hormones saying "GROW MOTHERFUCKER" every time you grind out another heavy rep. They also cure fuckarounditis.

  23. #73
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    1 - the deadlift does not risk injuring your lower back unless you're a fucking moron and don't maintain a good lumbar arch while lifting retardedly heavy weights. your hands will give out WAY before your back does, in any case. with chalk use to improve my grip strength, i've lifted 120 kilograms (240 lbs), which is more than double my weight, and am regularly lifting 105 kg without it at the gym (should be going for 110 in a week or so).

    2 - the deadlift is a full body exercise. deadlift twice your weight, and you WILL grow, ALL OVER.

    3- what do you think you use to hold the weight? your pubes? the deadlift will give you big arms and shoulders simply because of the tension needed to hold on to the weight. it won't work your triceps, but that's why you add pressing motions as well.

    4 - of all the lifts, possible you have to choose the deadlift to complain about a healthy risk? the deadlift is THE simplest and safest lift there is, bar none (where the bench press is the most dangerous). the weight is on the floor. you bend at the hips and knees, keeping a straight back. you grab the weight, and stand up while keeping a straight back. you put the weight back down with a straight back. if you fail at any point, you drop the weight, and nothing happens. done. doesn't get simpler and safer than that.

    read this: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...tion_for_power

  24. #74
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    Im following what this guy is saying/doing concerning Deadlifts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BTQe...eature=related

  25. #75
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    +1. hulse's stuff is epic. his multi-part series on deadlifting is among the best free video-resources you can get concerning it.

    links:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdjuX-GRby8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aafbP...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBoM0...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5axf...feature=relmfu

  26. #76
    Member Carl's Avatar
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    Myself, i jus go to work, there's enough lifting and carrying there to keep my upper body in shape, albiet not mr muscles, and the footwear i have to wear is heavy enough and restrictive enough that i've got legs like proverbial tree trunks. Dosen't tottally keep the weight off, (i do have a slight puanch due to my sweet tooth ), but i'm not overweight according to a BMI so it's not a major amount of excess.
    I don't know what i'm talking about, ignore me.

    Thousands of years ago, Egyptians worshipped what would become our ordinary housecat. The cats have never forgotten this.


  27. #77
    I mean I ate whatever I wanted and I was skinny! But really, it's true: you just don't eat as much as other people on a consistent basis. Really.
    But, but... I EAT A LOT! When I cook pasta for a meal, I fill the entire salad bowl. I never use a regular plate or regular bowl. When I buy a plate of shrimps (with cocktail sauce) from the supermarket I eat the whole plate in 1 go! I eat junk too; when I eat at McD's I regularly order 3-4 hamburgers on top of that to munch at home! I eat 4 eggs every single breakfast in addition to whatever else. I eat double servings for lunch, cuz Asian servings are pathetic (unless you're in Hong Kong). I order the Double-up Chicken meal from Ashton's after every workout. WTF else am I supposed to do, eat a steak/liver every single night?!

    Lecture on deadlifts, fuckarounditis page
    My name is Mlai, and I'm a fuckarounditic.
    Ok, that's it. From now on when I go to the gym, I will do only 4 things: Squats, Deadlifts, Chin-ups, and Bench Presses. Until I burn. No more moseying on to machines n' shit.

  28. #78
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    Machines are only useful for learning a technique but even then youll learn said technique faster without the machines aid.
    Basically your body stresses alot more working free weights. All you need are dumbels, a multi-set bench, bar and weights. sorted.

    Mlai, Im no food expert but I think cutting back on the burgers would be better, drinking plenty of water helps process all this much better, also allowing the body to absorb all the extras your throwing its way.

    Typical day for me is.
    - Oats, sometimes add raisens to stop me being bored of it /w my Protein shake, I use water so my body absorbs it faster, milk will add an extra hour ontop and Ive had people tell me it breaks down the good elements within the shake so I avoid.
    - Afew hours after 2-4boiled eggs / Pint of water.
    - Whole meal sandwich, alittle salad with afew chunks of chicken.
    - Pasta w/ bageutte or Rice with meat
    - Protein shake before sleep.

    Sometimes Ill slip in another whole meal sandwich depending if im hungry or not. Its not just what you eat its also how often since the body can only take on so much at a time. Someone correct me if im wrong here but water plays a massive role in your bodies ability to take on all what you are feeding it.
    Last edited by DeafMute; 14th Apr 12 at 2:54 AM.

  29. #79
    Smile! I'm here! Mullertime's Avatar
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    I'm quite lucky with fitness (I apologise now if I write FitNesse - It's a program we use a lot at work and I'm in the habit of typing it). I live a good distance from the train station, so get a brisk 20-25 minute walk to and from there every day. I walk everywhere if possible. That definitely helps

    In terms of weights. As bad as this may sound, I work on what I like doing. Instead of doing a workout because someone told me "this is good for you!"... I like to do what feels nice and what gives me a good feeling after. Personally, this keeps me going back. If I enjoy the workout process, I'll enjoy doing it. I wanted to start building muscles, and my gym allowed a free personal trainer session. The woman tortured me with the very workout I hate - Pushups. I've never liked them... but the majority of the workout were variations on this. And funnily enough I didn't go back. I wanted to, but the sheer unpleasantness of it all turned my body against me. It said "why? I hate this shit"

    I took up training again after starting work (the routine really helped) - And got to my old uni gym for under £10 a month. And my friend (who is built like a fucking tank) told me to simply push my weights. Instead of doing 3 sets of, say 10kg (A mistake I used to make. It's great for tone, but pointless if you don't have much to tone!)... do 10Kg, then 12Kg, then 15Kg... etc etc. So I did. I found the muscles I wanted to work on and just found my favourite exercises for them. And I'm enjoying the results And to me... it's easy because I enjoy it. I pulled my lower back a few times - where I'd worked so much on upper body that it was starting to basically overpower the lower in some exersions (Like a swing in badminton). So I thought "I need a workout for my lower back" - Got some advice off others and picked the one I enjoyed the most (A face-down version of sit-ups), and it's now part of my routine.

    It's as Fisher said - It's like a computer game with the Level ups. I keep nudging more weights and I'm seeing results, and that's what keeps me going back. If I get bored of a workout, I pitch it and find a suitable alternative. To me, the results of fitness are worth shit if you don't enjoy the process.

    I admit, I use machines to, but I use them more for meditation (no, really). The control on it lets me focus more and just enjoy the simple "inhale, exhale" of the motion. It's incredibly theraputic (my particular favourite is where you sit down and push out with your legs. I really feel refreshed after doing a string of those, constantly moving up the weights if I can)

    since i actually have to go through all the ritual of getting my stuff ready, getting out of the house, going to the gym, changing there, etc instead of just lazily eyeing the weights and ending up not exercising
    So, so true. My dad has a "bull worker" to work on upper body and I could easily do sit-ups, leg raises et al... but I much prefer going to the gym on a weekend. Go figure...
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  30. #80
    The problem with my staff gym is that it's a pussy gym -- the dumbbells go up to 10 kgs. That's it. That's why my deltoids aren't growing any bigger. I tried to hold 2 dumbbells in each hand but my hands aren't big enough LOL.

    BUT, if I just want to do bench presses, chin ups, squats, and deadlifts... then yeah this gym has the equipment for that. But for #1, #2, and #3... I'm gonna have to fight with everyone else for the Smith Machine. I forsee I'll be doing a whole lot of #4 (deadlifts) while waiting my turn for the Smith Machine. That should make Starfisher happy.

  31. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #81
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    @Starfisher: I am also firmly in the camp of "I eat a shitton and simply have a great/amazing way of dealing with it in terms of my metabolism". I can (and have) eaten less on a regular basis, due to student finance (the lack thereof, most students are familiar with this ), however I generally eat well enough enough to train three times and week and sleep relatively normally (i.e. around 8 hours instead of a lazy student's 12 hours of sleep a night).

    When I went through my self-imposed "get some muscle, you scrub" regime a few years back I jumped up to four regular meals a day (parents are chefs, plates are big) and snacks inbetween just to satiate the raging hunger. I put on a couple of stone in a year or so (I didn't really track it, I just wished to put muscle on my skinny frame). Now, a couple of years on, I maintain my current state/work on muscle strength (rather than bulk) through swimming/water polo exercises and I'm back to eating normally.
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  32. General Discussions Senior Member  #82
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    Heh, I don't mean to come off like a dick trying to force you into a different program. I AM trying to come off like a dick and convince you that your metabolism isn't special, because that might have helped me out a while back if I had been able to believe it. But, again, I wouldn't have listened to me either, so whatever. If you really want to test your "my metabolism is awesome" theory, start clocking everything into fitday or one of those calorie counters and you'll see the truth. I didn't gain any weight until I did that and realized that what I perceived as a ton of food was actually not that much. Also, a gallon of milk a day helped a lot.

    Stepping back from the whole "this exercise is TEH BEST" schtick, if you're accomplishing your goals, your program is solid, by definition. Your goals might not be my goals and vice versa, but so long as your accomplishing them, then you're doing well. A lot of exercise preaching is done with the underlying assumption that person A and person B both want the exact same thing - or worse, that only one thing is correct to want - but that's not realistic. Don't let the random rantings of the internet deflect your from your goals.

    Personally, I've been skinny and weak my whole life. I used to do pushups and pullups and run/bike everywhere, and I had sub-10% bodyfat. I liked to call myself a muscular skeleton, but I was more skeleton than muscle, and I was pathetically weak, even if I didn't quite realize it at the time. So, I'm interested in seeing the fat and strong side of life for a while. We'll see how it goes. But that's my bias in all of this. A couple years ago, it would have been biased towards long distance cycling. Before that, running.

    It sounds like your gym doesn't have an actual power rack or squat rack - only a smith machine? Kind of a shame. Smith machines take a lot of the work out of a squat and make it kind of hard to learn good form.

  33. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #83
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    My family is skinny by nature. We eat like horses, in general.

    How would you account for that, beyond my family having a distorted perception of the phrase "eat like a horse"? Are we somehow violating biological theory by being able to process food efficiently (or perhaps inefficiently, I wouldn't know the reason for being able to eat beyond your apparent size, short of tapeworm)?

  34. #84
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    Starfisher does speak the truth.

    Heres alittle pic to perhaps drill home that if you eat enough, put in the time youll end up with a body fit for the front of menshealth.


  35. #85
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    I have to second Starfisher here, after I started clocking my calorie intake I realised that I really wasn't consuming as many calories as I thought. What you thing is a high metabolism is probably just a lack of specific foods high in calories. I found that most meals (including fast food) clocked between 300-1000 a piece, with breakfast being less on average. Even given a low amount of exercise, I still needed to supplement my meal intake with nearly as many calories of snacks in order to gain weight. I second the milk thing too, I was eating around 5000 calories a day to quickly increase my weight by about a stone, a litre of milk really made it easier.
    (Formerly "The Herald")

  36. #86
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    @mlai: if you're doing lateral raises, but the dumbbells are too light, you might wanna try the bent press. it's a little bit tricky to learn, but it's an insanely fun lift that engages the entire shoulder structure AND the triceps. probably the only lift that i like as much as i like the deadlift (and i fucking LOVE the deadlift).

    here's an example done with a kettlebell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_A4q50xZpU (note the rotation of the arm, and the slight dip of the knees before standing up, both of which massively reduce pressure on the shoulder joint, and therefore reduce injury chance. also STRAIGHT LOWER BACK ).

    ----------

    also, dumbbell snatches (example 1, side view) are a pretty nice exercise as well. i do them with kettlebells, which i prefer, but kettlebells are not always available, so meh.

  37. General Discussions Senior Member  #87
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    How would you account for that, beyond my family having a distorted perception of the phrase "eat like a horse"? Are we somehow violating biological theory by being able to process food efficiently (or perhaps inefficiently, I wouldn't know the reason for being able to eat beyond your apparent size, short of tapeworm)?
    You don't eat as much as you think you do. It's really that simple.

    Here's the process I went through:

    1) Said the same thing you did. Can remember eating entire tubs of ice cream, entire bags of pretzels/chips, huge portions at meals, people constantly gawking at "how much you eat". Skinny as a rail since I was 12.
    2) One day decided I wanted to be strong
    3) Research
    4) Discover the concept of "hardgainer", which is what you're describing - magic metabolism, can't put on weight. Was disappointed. Continued researching.
    5) Discover anti-hardgainer rhetoric in the form of Starting Strength
    6) Decide to test all of this
    7) Discover eye-opening reality: when I put my "mountain of food" into a calorie counter, it didn't come out that high.
    8) Eat way more, drink a gallon of milk a day, gain 30+ lbs in total.

    Hardgainerness, metabolism, whatever, solved! It's still HARDER for me to gain weight than other people, but this isn't because I'm magic, it's because my appetite/body resists eating as much as I need to to actually gain weight. The reason I'm not fat despite eating with zero discpline all my life is that my body's response to the modern food spread is to feel full. This is fairly consistently observed in studies, for what it's worth. Naturally skinny people routinely over-report how much they eat, while naturally fat people routinely under-report it. "I ate so much and I'm so stuffed" is actually a subjective judgement, and a skinny person hits that point well before a fat person.

    edit: Another piece of this puzzle is consistency. A skinny person might binge eat and eat a shitton of food, and remember that binge. They forget the time they had a piece of toast for breakfast or only at a small sandwich for lunch. You have to eat big consistently to be big, not just eat big randomly.

  38. #88
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    Just finished this, lord do my tri's hurt lol.
    Highly suggest this workout, for those who dont know, tri-ceps will make your arms look much bigger then the bi-ceps ever will.

  39. #89
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    deltoids > triceps

  40. #90
    @ Hardgainer:
    Ok Starfisher, I'll believe that I don't eat as much as I need to eat in order to gain weight. I still believe I have magic metabolism compared to chubby ppl who cry at their dieting diets; but I can accept the fact that I can break thru my magic metabolism if I eat MORE.

    When I was in Taiwan on an extended vacation, there was a period of time when my relatives took me out to restaurants and over-stuffed me with rich foods every single day. Fish, pork, beef -- all ridiculously farm-fresh. I remember not only feeling overstuffed (because I hate seeing restaurant food they paid for go to waste), but also the richness of the food made me feel ***over-enriched*** (to the point of discomfort like I want to just lie in bed). And I do recall being quite surprised at my reflection in the mirror at the end of my vacation (my parents' condo had a ground gym too).

    Man, if I gotta eat like that, I've got my work cut out for me. How the heck do I eat like that during work days?!??

    QUESTION: How do I fit "feasting diet" into every single day, considering I wake up at 0630 AM to go to work, eat lunch at the staff cafeteria (40 mins effective lunch time), and get settled at home at 0800 PM (ready to eat dinner, usually take-out)?

    I am NOT a cook. I HATE COOKING. Cooking takes time and by 0800 PM I want to play games/ watch anime ASAP, before I have to sleep.

    It sounds like your gym doesn't have an actual power rack or squat rack - only a smith machine? Kind of a shame. Smith machines take a lot of the work out of a squat and make it kind of hard to learn good form.
    No prob then. While the others are pussying around on the Smith Machine, I'll use the short barbell to do the squats; I'll use the front-grip technique. It's supposed to be the better grip anyways, right?

    @mlai: if you're doing lateral raises, but the dumbbells are too light, you might wanna try the bent press.
    Cool, I'll do that with the Smith Machine weights. They're plates but they have similar grips.
    Ha, you guys are gonna make me the pioneer at that pussy gym. Ppl will be like "Holy shit what's with this guy's whole new routine he's HARDCORE."

    also, dumbbell snatches (example 1, side view) are a pretty nice exercise as well.
    Sadly I won't be able to fit this in. The dumbbells are too light, and if I try this with the plates I'll smash my face.

  41. #91
    Fish of Doom, you sound exactly like someone from /fit/. Any inspiration from there?

  42. Child's Play Donor General Discussions Senior Member Homeworld Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member  #92
    Ignorans, te absolvo Homdax's Avatar
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    I am to old for this shit.


    Then again, I have a BMI of 28:ish so I am in the risk zone, belly shows, hair is falling off, face is fluffy.

    I am your target. Weighing in at 93kg and 183 centimeters the numbers seem decent, in theory.
    Until I get over my depressing blob I wont train in public and I had no room for weights a la Deafmute, but that is about to change. In May I plan to purchase some stuff and do some slow lifting and pressing so we shall see. I find running boring.

  43. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #93
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfisher View Post
    You don't eat as much as you think you do. It's really that simple.
    But it wouldn't just be me. It would be my entire family not eating as much as they think they do (in addition to not serving me as much as they intend to/think that they're serving). As I have said, I can understand not eating as much as university; given my sporting tendencies, I can tell when I'm not eating as well as I could (or should).

    My brother eats (easily) one and a half times the amount I eat, and always has done. Consistently. Yet he is thinner than me, and doesn't do the exercise I do. Evidently, he doesn't eat as much as me, despite, um . . . eating more than me

  44. General Discussions Senior Member  #94
    terrible, terrible damage Starfisher's Avatar
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    Well, all I can ask you to do is run the experiment. Actually weigh and measure everything you eat for a week or two.

    There are a ton of people who make entire careers studying this, and the overall answer is that skinny people think they eat more than they actually do. When skinny people move beyond the "nuh-uh, I eat LOTS of food it can't be true!" reaction and actually check to see how much they're eating, they discover that, yep, they just thought they were eating a lot.

    This is really pronounced for tall folk, I think, because maintenance calories for someone very tall can be high relative to the rest of the population. You look like you're eating a lot compared to other people, but of course "A lot" is relative, so you think you have a magic metabolism. In reality, the "magic" is just that you have more base mass to feed, and you're actually eating the same amount of calories compensated for your basal metabolism.

    Remember, this is in the context of "hardgainers", which is a term indicating that they can't gain weight because of their magic metabolisms. The real problem is that they have a hard time eating enough - they can trivially gain weight once they understand why they weren't before. It's just a very difficult thing to move from a lifetime of believing that "I just can't gain weight" to "oh that's easy, but I have to eat a lot and I don't like eating that much."

  45. #95
    Member Fish Of Doom's Avatar
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    i'm the parasitic quintuplets that live in your spleen. your spleen is in Buenos Aires.
    @dauntless: nope!

    @mlai: smith machine bent press sounds fucking hilarious . seriously curious as to how that works out (no pun intended). remember to adjust your position since the bent press inolves arm rotation, though. practice it with a light weight first (you can do it at home with anything of a suitable shape), THEN try it with the bent press. the trick is to lower the body more than you press the arm up, and picture yourself trying to screw your read deltoid down into your ear by pushing off the weight you're holding. then you dip your knees to adjust the shoulder angle and stand up.

    @homdax: exercise itself (done in high-intensity*) can help deal with depression, so if you can get started with something, you might want to at least try. i would recommend starting with a simple routine of pushups, bodyweight squats (if you can't squat correctly right off the bat, do box squats, but obviously without the weight, and gradually use lower platforms, then try squatting without), and if you have a way to do them, inverted rows (to balance out the pushups and prevent your shoulders from being dumb). post here or shoot me a pm if you need any info. never too old to start, anyway. hell, i help my 62 year old mother at the gym, and am slowly getting her into some light weightlifting to help fix her posterior chain.

    *high intensity doesn't mean that you kill yourself, or blow out your lungs, it means that you're making a big effort that expends a lot of energy.

    ----------

    edit: fuck you double post.

    MOAR EDIT: re: squatting methods: the clean grip for the front squat is better than the cross-arm grip for the front squat, because the cross-arm grip can lead to shoulder imbalances. apart from that, the different squat variants are different exercises, with different uses. front squat is good when you don't have a rack, but you lift less weight (particularly if you don't know how to power-clean), and don't engage the posterior chain as much (since your torso is more upright, and your back does not have to support the bar), but it's easier to combine with other lifts (it follows all of the variants of the clean, and the grip is mostly the same as is used for vertical pressing movements) and uses the quads more. the back squat on the other hand uses more posterior chain activation and lets you lift more weight (particularly low-bar).

  46. #96
    @mlai: smith machine bent press sounds fucking hilarious . seriously curious as to how that works out (no pun intended).
    Well obviously I don't mean bent pressing the machine. I mean the free plates that are used for the barbell attached to the machine. This particular set of plates have handles on them.

    @ Starfisher:
    So you haven't yet told me your experience on how to eat more.
    I mean, ok, you say "Eat more." All well and good. But, how?
    If you were a skinny dude, then that means you also had to overcome the "Ok I know I must eat more, but how do I stuff all this food down day after day when I'm not hungry? And where do I find the time? I eat this much and all I feel like doing is lie down, how am I supposed to study/work?"
    Keep in mind you/me are not starting from "anorexic habits" to "eating normally." You/me are starting from "eating so much that other ppl gawk with envy" to "now eat twice that amount."

  47. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #97
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    No but mlai you're not eating as much as you think you are. Evidently.

    @Starfisher: I'm relatively underfed now I am at uni; I recognise that. Unfortunately it's not something I can do a lot about

    However, when my (chef) parents give me large meals (at home), and my brother eats roughly 50% on top of what I eat . . . and he's still skinnier than me, that lends credence to the possibility that some people might just be able to eat more than others while maintaining a set body weight/mass.

  48. Forum Subscriber  #98
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    It might be that you just don't eat often enough. I use to eat large meals and then wonder why I was thin, but it turned out that I just didn't eat enough overall. Some days I wouldn't bother eating at all and other's I'd have my first meal of the day at 10pm.
    I hate being full and I don't really ever feel hungry so eating has always been a chore.

    When I actually started to force myself to eat frequent small meals instead of one large one, I began to put on weight. Since I've gone back to college that's all gone out the window though, but hopefully I'll get some meat on my bones over the summer.
    BOD is my Shepard

  49. #99
    Member Shoota Fodder's Avatar
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    I suffer from super skinny problems as well. I actually do roughly what Sentinel does, but I still don't think it's enough. I doubt if you were to do a calorie count, it would come out at over 2,000, but I'm full and tend to feel sick after most meals. I guess I'd rather drink than eat.
    "Celtic fans right now sit in silence and watch, and hope that the damage doesn't get any worse from this Graham Carey free kick. Away by Wilson. Teale. Still options waiting in the middle for St. Mirren...OH, AND THEY HAVE ANOTHER ONE! It's stunning! It's absolutely stunning at Hampden park! And it's Steven Thompson, who scores his thirteenth goal of the season, and that might just be the goal that takes St. Mirren into the league cup final!" - 27/01/2013

  50. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #100
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    @Sentinel: when I was at home, I didn't get a chance/want to turn down food. As I've said, uni is a different ball game

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