Results 1 to 29 of 29

Company of Heroes Patch

  1. #1

    Company of Heroes Patch

    I use to play CoH, and I've played both 2.601 and 2.602. I've found out that the 2.602 made a huge impact on the American faction; in 2.601 I would always win, but ever since 2.602 came out I would always lose. Like the rifleman man they got soooo weak. Maybe it's me, but has anyone else gotten this problem?

  2. Modding Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #2
    Celéstial by heart Celution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    If you check the patchnotes:

    Code:
    =====================================================================
    Company of Heroes
    =====================================================================
    
    
    v2.602 – Operation Torch	07/08/2011
    
    
    Maps
    
    
    3 new maps have been added to the game:
    	o    2p Carpiquet
    	o    6p Refinery
    	o    6p Steel Pact
    
    
    3 new community map have been added to the game:
    	o    2p Duclair
    	o    2p Egletons
    	o    4p Alsace Moselle
    
    
    The following maps have received significant balance changes:
    	o    2p Beaux Lowlands
    	o    2p Flooded Plains
    	o    2p Ruins of Rouen
    	o    2p Sturzdorf
    	o    2p Wrecked Train
    	o    4p Duclair
    	o    4p Lorraine
    	o    4p McGechaen's War
    	o    4p Point Du Hoc
    	o    4p Rails and Metal
    
    
    Bug Fixes:
    
    
    Units no longer continue to crawl after recovering from Suppression
    Chance for a kill critical on vehicles is now properly being updated when they've received other non-kill criticals (5% bug)
    Unbuilt Tank Traps cannot be repeatedly spawned around enemy vehicles
    All vehicles now properly have vehicle cover
    Registered Artillery can no longer target field defenses
    Registered Artillery can no longer be refunded after use
    M18 Hellcat can now be detected
    Goliath can now be detected
    Recon Squads can now detect camouflage while moving
    Teller Mines no longer have a chance to miss vehicles in vehicle cover
    The Hotchkiss now properly shares experience with other PE units
    ATHT's using Focus Fire now have intended accuracy vs moving British infantry
    Hetzer Veterancy requirements reduced to standard
    M10 Veterancy requirements increased to standard
    Panzer IV Stubby now prioritizes light vehicles over infantry
    StuH now prioritizes infantry over vehicles
    PE Panzerschrecks no longer convert to Wehrmacht Panzerschrecks when dropped
     Geschutzwagen wrecks can now be salvaged for Munitions
    Luftwaffe reinforce time reduced to standard
    Paks and Nebelwerfers can now use Medkits
    AT Grenades now collide with enemy vehicles
    Hetzer and Jagdpanther CP reward increased to standard
    Panther Battlegroups are much less likely to fail to spawn the second Panther
    Medics no longer detect camouflage
    Snipers and weapon teams can now pick up Supply Drops
    Tank Traps can no longer be placed so close together that they block infantry
    105mm Howitzers are now re-crewed with 3 squad members
    Removed the chance for the Pak38 support members to one-hit kill infantry
    Bombing Run no longer does double damage to Vet 3 StuGs
    M10 no longer has increased accuracy vs skirted PanzerIVs
    Wehr Officer 81mm Mortar Bombardment can no longer be interrupted to produce false smoke
    Panther Battle Groups and OMCGs will not refund their cost if partially called in on an unfinished building
    AT Guns no longer avoid their reload time by resetting the gun after a shot
    Panthers now properly benefit from Tank Destroyer's APCR upgrade
    Nebelwerfer rockets no longer have a chance to instantly kill all occupants of a building
    Sappers with the Demolitions & Disposal upgrade are no longer negatively affected by the Lieutenants movement aura
    Pioneer Call-in now has proper requirements after the HQ is destroyed
    PE Armored Cars are no longer resistant to engine damage from mines
    Ranger Bazookas no longer drop with greater frequency than other slot items
    Propaganda War’s chance to not trigger on targets has been removed in most instances
    Snipers are now able to re-enter camouflage after a reasonable duration after exiting a building
    “Burst Fire” effects have been reduced on the Ostwind, Puma, and PE Armored Car
    Kettenkrad’s can now repair resource points that have had Scorched Earth used on them
    American Medics are now selectable (to see unit health)
    Demolition Charges can now be targeted by weapons
    Stickybombs can now be interrupted by retreat commands
    Panzerfaust can now be interrupted by retreat commands
    
    
    General
    
    
    Speech
    Some speech files missing from Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite upgrades have been restored
    
    
    Medics
    
    
    Health reduced from 120 to 60
    
    
    Snipers
    
    
    Accuracy vs garrisoned units increased from 75% to 100%
    Will no longer automatically seek cover before firing
    
    
    Flamethrowers
    
    
    Damage vs units in open cover reduced from 1.0x to 0.85x
    Damage vs units in negative cover reduced from 1.0x to 0.75x
    Damage vs Soldier Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.95x
    Damage vs buildings increased from 0.5x to 0.6x
    Infantry Flamethrower max damage reduced from 40 to 30, min damage increased from 15 to 25
    Sherman and Churchill Flamethrower max damage reduced from 40 to 35, min damage increased from 20 to 30
    Halftrack Flamethrower max damage increased from 30 to 35, min damage increased from 10 to 30
    
    
    Grenades
    
    
    No longer have a chance to miss the targeted location
    
    
    Abilities
    
    
    Weapon using Abilities can no longer be used while Pinned
    
    
    Base Buildings
    
    
    All base buildings can now reinforce
    
    
    American
    
    
    Engineers
    
    
    Suppression threshold increased to match other infantry
    Suppression recovery threshold increased to match other infantry
    Upgrading with flamethrowers now increases your suppression modifier by 1.5x
    
    
    Mortar
    
    
    Barrage scatter angle reduced from 15 to 10
    Set-up time reduced from 2.4s to 1.5s
    Pack-up time reduced from 2.8s to 1.9s
    
    
    .30 Cal HMG
    
    
    Pack-up time reduced from 2.5s to 2.1s
    Ready aim time decreased from 0.3 to 0.1 (it will aim faster)
    
    
    Anti-Tank Gun
    
    
    Reinforcement cost reduced from 71 to 26
    Accuracy vs Anti-Tank guns reduced from 0.5x to 0.1x
    Accuracy vs Infantry reduced from 0.15x to 0.05x
    Accuracy vs Snipers reduced from 0.15x to 0.02x
    Targeting priority vs Snipers reduced from 10 to 5
    Weapon health increased from 300 to 390
    
    
    Sherman Crocodile
    
    
    Range increased from 20 to 25
    Vet 2 1.5x Penetration bonus replaced with a 0.8x Cooldown bonus
    
    
    M18 Hellcat
    
    
    Speed increased from 6.0 to 7.2
    Acceleration increased from 1.5 to 2.0, Deceleration increased from 3.8 to 4.4
    Vet 2 bonus is now 1.5x Penetration rather than +1.25 Range
    Hellcat penetration at short range increased from .65x to .75x, medium range from 0.55x to 0.69x, and long range from 0.4x to 0.63x
    Target table now identical to the M10's
    Damage bonus from camouflage reduced from 2.0x to 1.5x
    Penetration bonus from camouflage reduced from 5.0x to 1.5x
    
    
    M26 Pershing
    
    
    Cost reduced from 900 Manpower to 800 Manpower
    
    
    Off-Map Combat Group
    
    
    M8s and Hellcats now spawn with their upgrades
    Population requirement increased from 12 to 15
    
    
    Off Map Artillery
    
    
    Damage modifier vs Pak38s reduced from 2.0x to 1.33x
    
    
    Jeep
    
    
    Received Accuracy from the Pak reduced from 1.0x to 0.75x
    Received Accuracy modifier from the Pak while moving reduced from 0.75x to 0.5x
    Received Damage from the 57mm ATG reduced from 1.0x to 0.5x
    
    
    Strafing Run
    
    
    Significant changes to make Strafe more effective against groups of units and less effective against single units
    
    
    Sticky Bombs
    
    
    Deflection Damage enabled, set to 50%
    Accuracy increased to prevent thrown Stickies from missing their intended target
    
    
    Riflemen
    
    
    Received XP bonus from BARs and Stickies reduced from 5% to 0%
    Received XP bonus from Supply Yard 2 increased from 20% to 30%
    
    
    T17
    
    
    Cooldown lowered from 2-2.5 to 0
    Reload increased from 1 to 3.5
    Health increased from 175 to 265
    Vet 1 Health bonus reduced from +175 to +50
    Fixed an issue where the T17 had a harder time penetrating the rear armour of some vehicles
    Fixed an issue where the T17 would fail to penetrate Snipers
    
    
    Wehrmacht
    
    
    Kampfkraft Center
    
    
    Now requires a built base structure or a FHQ
    
    
    Pak 38
    
    
    Number of camouflage shots reduced from 3 to 1
    Cost reduced from 310 Manpower to 290 Manpower
    Reinforcement cost reduced from 57 to 23
    Accuracy vs Anti-Tank Guns reduced from 0.5x to 0.1x
    Accuracy vs Infantry reduced from 0.15x to 0.05x
    Accuracy vs Snipers reduced from 0.15x to 0.02x
    Accuracy vs Shermans increased from 1.0x to 1.1x
    Accuracy vs Cromwells increased from 0.8x to 1.0x
    Accuracy vs Pershings increased from 1.08 to 1.15
    Targeting priority vs Snipers reduced from 10 to 5
    Weapon health increased from 300 to 390
    
    
    Panzerschreck
    
    
    Accuracy vs M8 Greyhound Armour increased from 0.73x to 0.85x
    Accuracy vs M3 Halftrack Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.85x
    Accuracy vs Stuart Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.85x
    Damage vs Stuart Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.7x
    
    
    88mm Flak 36
    
    
    Accuracy vs Infantry reduced from 0.5x to 0.15x
    Accuracy vs Snipers reduced from 0.25x to 0.05x
    Targeting priority vs Snipers reduced from 10 to 5
    
    
    Puma
    
    
    Received Accuracy bonuses while moving from Vet removed
    Level 2 Veterancy sight bonus increased from 4 to 10
    
    
    Officer
    
    
    Build Time reduced from 45s to 25s
    
    
    StuG
    
    
    Acceleration increased from 1.7 to 2.5, Deceleration increased from 2.0 to 3.0
    
    
    G-Wagon
    
    
    Damage lowered from 250 to 185
    MG Gunner now requires Vet 2
    Vet 3 bonus reduced from 0.5x Reload to 0.75x Reload
    Accuracy vs Anti-Tank Guns reduced from 0.65x to 0.2x
    
    
    Nebelwerfer
    
    
    Suppression radius reduced from 18 to 13.5
    
    
    StuH
    
    
    CP cost lowered from 3 to 2
    Cost lowered from 600 Manpower to 500 Manpower
    
    
    Tiger
    
    
    CP cost increased from 4 to 5
    Cost lowered from 900 Manpower to 800 Manpower
    
    
    Assault Grenades
    
    
    Maximum damage lowered from 35 to 25, minimum damage lowered from 25 to 10
    Low health kill critical chance increased from 0% to 30%
    
    
    Knights Cross Holders
    
    
    Now passively regenerate 21.12 Health per Minute
    Received Damage from BARs, Brens, and Thompsons reduced from 0.85x to 0.78x
    
    
    Firestorm
    
    
    Damage vs 105mm Howitzers reduced from 1.0x to 0.35x
    
    
    Medkits
    
    
    Cost reduced from 35 Munitions to 30 Munitions
    
    
    Goliaths
    
    
    Goliaths can no longer be Buttoned
    Goliath rotation speed increased from 45 to 65
    
    
    Rocket Barrage
    
    
    Long AoE increment damage increased from 0.1x to 0.2x
    AoE accuracy increased to 100%
    
    
    Panzerfaust
    
    
    Damage vs Bren Carriers increased from 1.3x to 1.45x
    Accuracy increased from 100% to 200% at all ranges
    Accuracy vs infantry halved
    
    
    Blitzkrieg
    
    
    Cost reduced from 150 Munitions to 125 Munitions
    
    
    Manpower Blitz
    
    
    Cost reduced from 200 Munitions to 175 Munitions
    
    
    MG42
    
    
    Cost reduced from 260 Manpower to 250 Manpower
    Build time reduced from 40s to 35s
    Pack-up time reduced from 2.5s to 2.1s
    Weapon health increased from 300 to 390
    
    
    Halftrack
    
    
    Received Accuracy bonuses while moving from Vet removed
    
    
    Motorcycle
    
    
    Received Accuracy bonuses while moving from Vet removed
    
    
    Schwimmwagen
    
    
    Received Accuracy bonuses while moving from Vet removed
    Cost reduced from 240 Manpower to 225 Manpower
    Build time reduced from 45s to 40s
    
    
    Volksgrenadiers
    
    
    Reinforce percentage reduced from 0.5x to 0.4x
    Capture speed increased from 1.0x to 1.25x upon reaching Skirmish Phase
    
    
    Light MG42
    
    
    Drop chance reduced from 60% to 30%
    Long Range Accuracy increased from 0.1x to 0.13x
    
    
    Commonwealth
    
    
    Kangaroo
    
    
    Cost increased from 240/10 to 300/45
    Health reduced from 650 to 550
    Speed reduced from 6.5 to 5.85
    Build time increased from 35s to 45s
    
    
    Staghound
    
    
    Damage vs Infantry Armour reduced from 1.75x to 1.5x
    Damage vs Airborne Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.75x
    Damage vs Heroic Armour reduced from 0.85x to 0.75x
    Damage vs Sniper Armour reduced from 1.5x to 1.0x
    Damage vs Soldier Armour reduced from 1.5x to 1.0x
    Accuracy vs Elite Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.75x
    Accuracy vs Soldier Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.75x
    
    
    Sappers
    
    
    Now have the Wirecutters ability
    
    
    17 Pounder
    
    
    Health increased from 400 to 450
    Accuracy vs Anti-Tank Guns reduced from 0.5x to 0.1x
    Accuracy vs Infantry reduced from 0.15x to 0.05x
    Accuracy vs Snipers reduced from 0.15x to 0.02x
    Targeting priority vs Snipers reduced from 10 to 5
    
    
    Lieutenants
    
    
    Now receive a 0.85x Received Damage modifier at Vet 1
    Vet 2 Received Accuracy modifier increased from 0.9x to 0.75x
    Now receive a 0.75x Received Accuracy modifier at Vet 3
    Lieutenants' aura's stackable damage modifier at veterancy level 1 has been reduced from 1.125 to 1.04
    Lieutenants' aura's non-stackable damage modifier at veterancy level 1 has been increased from 1.025 to 1.11
    Lieutenants' aura's stackable damage modifier at veterancy level 2 has been increased from 1.025 to 1.065
    Lieutenant's aura radius increased from 25 to 30
    
    
    PIATs
    
    
    Penetration modifier at short and medium range reduced from 2.0x to 1.0x
    Reload modifier at long range reduced from 1.6x to 1.2x
    Projectile speed increased from 10 to 15
    Penetration vs skirted Panthers reduced from .15 to .112
    Penetration vs skirted PIV reduced from .449 to .337
    Penetration vs skirted StuG reduced from .332 to .249
    Damage vs Infantry Armour reduced from 0.5x to 0.33x
    Damage vs Heroic Armour reduced from 0.5x to 0.33x
    Damage vs Elite Armour reduced from 0.5x to 0.2x
    Damage vs Sniper Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.2x
    Damage vs Soldier Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.33x
    
    
    Mortar Pit
    
    
    Build Time reduced from 90s to 60s
    While under construction received damage modifier increased from 0.5x to 0.75x
    
    
    Damage reduced from 20 to 18
    Supercharged range decreased from 100 to 90
    
    
    Recon Section
    
    
    Recon Sections can no longer build Trenches
    
    
    Churchills
    
    
    Churchill and AVRE Population lowered from 14 to 8
    Churchill Crocodile Population lowered from 16 to 10
    Churchill 6 Pounder gun AoE distance increased from 0.1/0.25/0.5 to 0.15/0.5/1.0
    
    
    Bofors
    
    
    Build time reduced from 90 seconds to 60 seconds
    
    
    Bren Carrier
    
    
    Self-Repair ability is disabled while the Carrier is garrisoned
    Garrison disabled while Self-Repair is active
    
    
    Panzer Elite
    
    
    Halftracks
    All Panzer Elite halftracks have received an update to their pathfinding
    
    
    Panzer-Jaeger Kommand
    
    
    Build time increased from 115 to 135
    
    
    Gewehr 43
    
    
    Maximum cooldown reduced from 1.8 to 1.65, minimum cooldown reduced from 1.25 to 1.15
    Suppressive Volley Fire now Suppresses the target
    Suppressive Volley Fire slow duration reduced from 20s to 5s
    
    
    Incendiary Grenade
    Hotkey changed from “Y” to “N”
    
    
    Kettenkrad
    
    
    Sight Range increased from 35 to 55
    No longer autotamically moves out of the way of other vehicles
    
    
    Schwimmwagen
    
    
    Sight Range increased from 35 to 55
    Mark Target cooldown increased from 10 seconds to 45 seconds
    Mark Target Munitions cost increased from 0 to 15
    Incendiary Trap trigger radius increase from 0.5 to 2
    Incendiary Trap’s damage-over-time modifier vs British infantry increased from 1.0 to 1.25
    
    
    Infantry Halftrack
    
    
    Accuracy vs Light Cover increased from 0.75x to 0.8x
    
    
    Panzerschreck
    
    
    Accuracy vs M8 Greyhound Armour increased from 0.73x to 0.85x
    Accuracy vs M3 Halftrack Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.85x
    Accuracy vs Stuart Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.85x
    Damage vs Stuart Armour reduced from 1.0x to 0.7x
    
    
    Scout Car
    
    
    Detection radius increased from 9 to 18
    
    
    Vampire Halftrack
    
    
    Divert Supplies now camouflages the Vampire while active
    Population reduced from 4 to 2
    
    
    Munitions Halftrack
    
    
    Cost reduced from 200/15 to 200
    Population reduced from 4 to 2
    
    
    Armoured Car
    
    
    Detection radius lowered from 9 to 0
    Accuracy vs garrisoned units increased from 0.4x to 0.45x
    Vet 2 and Vet 3 increase Health by 20 each
    Build time increased from 45 to 55
    Overdrive ability hotkey changed from “O” to “V”
    
    
    Marder III
    
    
    Sight Main Gun LoS bonus increased from +5 to +10
    Tracking speed increased from 10 to 20
    Accuracy vs Anti-Tank Guns reduced from 0.65x to 0.2x
    Population reduced from 8 to 5
    
    
    Anti-Tank Halftrack
    
    
    Accuracy vs M8 Greyhound Armour increased from 1.0x to 1.05x
    Treadbreaker cost increased from 40 Munitions to 50 Munitions
    Population reduced from 6 to 4
    
    
    Hotchkiss
    
    
    Accuracy vs Infantry increased from 0.5x to 0.6x
    Stuka upgrade cost reduced from 150 Munitions to 100 Munitions
    Stuka Barrage cooldown reduced by 10 seconds per Vet level
    
    
    Bergetiger
    
    
    Population reduced from 10 to 8
    
    
    Hummel
    
    
    Population reduced from 12 to 10
    
    
    Base-Sector Flakvierlings
    
    
    Population reduced from 3 to 0
    The only thing that was changed to Riflemen is their received veterancy from BARs, Stickies and the Supply Yard upgrades. I didn't notice anything about Riflemen being weaker, as Axis infantry wasn't changed that much either. Though I think patch v2.602 ruined the game in several ways, as it fixed things that weren't broken and the patch wasn't put together by Relic, but unfortunately by the guys at GR.org.. (no offense to the guys tho), so the patch is built to their taste, and not really put together how Relic wanted the game to be. But this is a whole different story.

  3. General Discussions Senior Member  #3
    Senior Member roflmao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Veracruz, Mexico.
    They balanced PaKs. That right there makes it superior to 2.601.

  4. Company of Heroes Senior Member  #4
    And some of things that are listed in the patch notes were not implemented or somehow dropped from actual patch (eg, PE ACs still detect). Also, while fixing other things, they broke stuff (eg, the issue with how some vehicles are now able to pass between US and Wehr TTs).

    I didn't know Relic didn't work the 2.602 patch. Maybe, that explains why it had such poor QA and file management (which is what suspect led to the lost implementations and other issues). But, even Relic was guilty of file management in past because older patches saw things like a bug would be fixed in one version than returned in a later version.

  5. Modding Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #5
    Celéstial by heart Celution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Relic did make the actual changes, but as far as I know they didn't put together most of the changes. All this comes from the opinions of the guys at GR, which in my opinion was a bad choice of Relic. Sure they fixed PaKs the right way and sure they nerfed strafe a bit, but there are a lot of changes, like Black said, that either weren't even applied, broke the game or fixed things that weren't broken.

    All in all, it makes me feel that Relic thought those guys were speaking for the whole community, which is pretty stupid and not true at all. The lack of proper patch notes also reveals Relic put minimal effort in it.

  6. #6
    Member ARMYguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cleveland OH
    Certainly better than no patch. Id kill for a dow2 ret patch to fix my IG HWT, even if it was community made.

  7. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #7
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    Unfortunately that's an engine issue(s), which is why the attempted fix by the balance designer didn't work out too well.

    @Celestial: GR is probably the most active CoH board at the moment (unless the community site is still struggling along?). GR has also generally been a place Relic pay attention to for feedback given the existence of high-level (or otherwise competitive/tournament-playing) gamers (for DoW II as well).

    I don't agree with a lot of how they do things over there, and how discussions generally go . . . but I'm not going to knock Relic for going to the one place still trying to give feedback (as the CoH subforum here is quite dead, no?).
    I am an Iron Warrior! Iron Within, Iron Without!

  8. #8
    Senior Member CaptHurricane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, YURP.
    Several people over on Gr.org do claim to have had some input to the latest CoH and you cannot claim they did not have the best of intentions.

    The bug fixes were great but is true that almost all of the changes to unit stats (i.e. re-balancing) have turned out to be misguided.

    The irony of the situation is that most, if not all, of those self styled 'experts' quit playing once they had achieved their dream patch.
    "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you - you'll be a man my son".
    .......................................Rudyard Kipling , Afganistan, 19thC.
    "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - you may have missed something very important".
    .......................................Royal Marine, Afganistan, 21stC.

  9. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #9
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    It does make me wonder why you seem to think your interpretation of balance is so much better than theirs.

    Surely the same could be said of them with regards to you?

    In the end, Relic will listen to whomever is vocal, educated and informed. Or rather, they used to (certainly with DoW II, before the layoffs).

  10. General Discussions Senior Member  #10
    Senior Member roflmao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Veracruz, Mexico.
    I think part of the problem is that the inherent complexity of CoH just makes it impossible to balance for all playstyles and matchups. Unlike SC2 where the system is rock-paper-scissors, CoH has an intricate set of hard and soft counters. What determines battles is just as much about army composition as it is situational, unlike SC2 where 90% is army composition.

    So you can only ever achieve quasi-balance. I've just come to the realization that CoH will never ever perfectly be balanced, and that's fine as long as things are not too dire .

  11. Company of Heroes Senior Member  #11
    Senior Member Q77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Teh Netehrlandz
    I think part of the problem is that the inherent complexity of CoH just makes it impossible to balance for all playstyles and matchups. Unlike SC2 where the system is rock-paper-scissors, CoH has an intricate set of hard and soft counters.
    ^ this. The only way to get a 100% balance is to mirror sides. With so many different kind of units and playstyles the whole imbalance (-not talking about bugs) is more a matter of opinion and personal playstyle than a certain disadvantage.
    Now thát's a Knight's Cross.

  12. Modding Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #12
    Celéstial by heart Celution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    In a way you are right roflmao, but the game is very well capable of being balanced, without mirroring everything. You could say v2.602 is kinda balanced, but along with v2.602 stuff that should never have been changed, got changed for no reason as well as certain changes in the changelog never being applied in the first place. Along with some other very known bugs/inbalances which got completely ignored or 'fixed' in a weird way.

  13. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #13
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    The thing is that "should never have been changed" is a subjective viewpoint. This is what I don't get, and have never really gotten - I frequent here, GR, DoWIICom and the Heroes of Newerth forums (GR has a HoN forum as well as a DoW II and CoH forum) and I don't understand why people are so elitist with their own opinions.

    I mean, elitism is good and well if you can back it up (given that RN effectively runs on it in terms of rule enforcement ), but when it comes down to niggly-piggly issues about the strength of a specific unit (that is often evaluated in isolation or in a specific UP/OP build order in order to bias the thread discussion in a certain way) why can't everybody accept that other people have just as valid opinions as they do, unless proven (beyond reasonable doubt) otherwise?

  14. #14
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Because we've played/been playing this game for several years Gorb, we understand the complexity of the game (its far more complex than Dawn of War 2) and even taken part in modding the game so we understand the values that are at play within the core of this game. GR.org is a fraction of the company of Heroes community and you can't obtain a full picture from sampling a handful of individual's opinions on balance then apply that to the whole game without some people going... ah what?

  15. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #15
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    What's to say they haven't been playing the game as well, that they have understood the complexity, and that they have been involved in modding as well (though that last one is unlikely, beyond Kolaris and possibly one or two others)?

    Nice DoW II bait, by the by~

    EDIT: r.e. "sampling a handful of individual's opinions", this goes back to my first post in here - what makes you guys so special? Why should Relic listen to your changes, and your opinions?

    It's just amusing because you'd rather focus on criticising other people suggesting other changes (how much use has your Strategy subforum gotten in the past year guys? How much of an effort has anybody put into contacting Relic? The former I can see for myself; the latter I honestly don't know about) using arguments that apply to anything you'd ever suggest r.e. the state of the game as well!

  16. #16
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    You are still selecting opinions from a small pool of potential opinions, thus limiting the amount of data you could collect. There is also the fact that, people tend to agree with people they seem as better than them in terms of gaming, GR has an elite group of Company of Heroes players that hold sway over the masses of other players there, this results in them getting the same opinion as the elites by simply admiring them.

    If you want to gather a more global representation of the opinion on a certain topic, you don't just talk to 10 people, you talk to 100.

  17. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #17
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    I don't think I ever disagreed with that notion, going on what I've written here so far.

    In fact, this kinda brings us (or me, at least) full-circle to my first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorb
    @Celestial: GR is probably the most active CoH board at the moment (unless the community site is still struggling along?). GR has also generally been a place Relic pay attention to for feedback given the existence of high-level (or otherwise competitive/tournament-playing) gamers (for DoW II as well).

    I don't agree with a lot of how they do things over there, and how discussions generally go . . . but I'm not going to knock Relic for going to the one place still trying to give feedback (as the CoH subforum here is quite dead, no?).
    Again, how active has this place been in the past year or two?

    I'm thinking not that great, personally. Not that I am claiming it's the fault of those still around here, and still trying their best. All I'm saying is that it makes sense for Relic to concentrate their efforts around the most (apparently) highly-skilled players and/or active debaters, wherever they reside.

    That, and cross-site bias irks me. It gets on my nerves when GR folks dismiss RelicNews as well

  18. #18
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    There is no cross site bias, I've worked with GR.org people before (hell, they did an interview with me in the past). They are a good bunch of people, but the issue is they consentration of people leads to stagnation of ideas as everyone eventually agrees.

  19. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #19
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    Except that the thing I took issue with was the subjective disagreement between people in here and the precise balancing of 2.602; the general principle of listening to a wider range of people over a smaller subset is, of course, a sound principle.

    It would also be handy if you answered my question(s) - how active is this place? How much of a position was this community in to give feedback to Relic at a time when they were asking for it? I have no idea if this was done or not, hence why I ask

  20. #20
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Before 2.602 dropped, this community forums was quite active. Relic had active posters on this forum during that time, but the question of what connect for patches never arose from them. This forum only died after the creation of the CoH Community forums by Relic.

  21. Modding Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #21
    Celéstial by heart Celution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    I have to agree with what Akra said, for the most part. The fact that Relic only stood open for feedback from the 'trusted' people at GR.org, is quite offending to the rest, kind of giving the rest of the community the feeling that they aren't as important or have no idea of how things are going. As well as what Akra said, gathering information from such a small amount of players is quite bad in general, due to people from the same location (in this case GR.org) often are good friends and over time support and share each others opinions, therefor Relic got their feedback from a bunch of people who have formed their idea of how they think the balance should look like.

    Relic didn't even put effort in announcing that they are taking feedback from the community, not even on their own community site. It also seems that like Relic put minimal effort and zombie applied what the people at GR.org had put together, evidence of this is the layout of the changelog; it looks totally NOT like how Relic has done that for the past 5 years, and in this changelog there are even shortcut words like "G-Wagon"...

    I never said my opinion is the best and everything I think about balance has to be applied, but I think how Relic has acted with v2.602 was kind of rude and unprofessional. When I look back at it, I can summarize it to the following: "After 1.5 years of nothing, we will make a patch with minimal effort. Let's go to GR.org, see what they have collected they wanted to change, this is how all of the community thinks, so we will apply this".

    I know that sounds a bit rude, but that is the message that haunts me every time I think about how v2.602 was made and applied.

  22. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #22
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    Fun fact about GameReplays: they went to Relic asking to submit balance arguments. It's not necessarily a matter of Relic being open to the idea - hence why I asked what you guys had done.

    Also, according to Krandy, 2.602 was in development for a long time; people were aware of it. What prevented you from raising issues with Relic developers? I recall seeing threads here dedicated to 2.602 (as evidenced by the tag in the thread title(s)).

    Again with the negative bias, Celestial. I'm sure you wouldn't have complained if Relic had only listened to you guys, and the folk over on GR were hurt about it (throwing about terms like unprofessional, really. They are under no professional obligation to listen to the community in the first place).

  23. Modding Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #23
    Celéstial by heart Celution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    I disagree with you Gorb, I was well aware of that Relic was working on patch v2.602 and ever have tried to contact Relic about it through several locations and people, but every time things got completely ignored and they weren't open to it at all.
    Last edited by Celution; 24th Apr 12 at 9:01 AM.

  24. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #24
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In the past
    Well that's fair enough then - I did ask, several times, what had been done. In that event I can understand how you feel

  25. #25
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    We knew about it, and I am pretty sure we had a thread here of propose balance changes intended for Relic to watch as we updated, Relic even commented that they did check this forum for ideas on balance, yet we can see that the patch is simply lifted from GR.org due to the language in the patch itself.

  26. Modding Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #26
    Celéstial by heart Celution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Exactly. And that feels rude towards us who also were willing to help and get CoH to a better state but all our efforts were ignore, instead they turned their heads only towards the people at GR.org. They did fixed numerous stuff that everyone wanted to change but about other stuff many disagree with and we let Relic know that, but they completely ignored that, which leaves us feeling less worthy and such stuff. I wish relic would have done it differently by creating some sort of closed beta which you could have applied for or something in that direction.

  27. Company of Heroes Senior Member  #27
    Senior Member Q77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Teh Netehrlandz
    Hm I dont agree it was rude, eventhough I love relicnews there's only a few top players-coh addicts on here and has been. The thing with GR is, its a gaming community where as relicnews is a fanforum. GR has always been more dynamic about the game (replay system, broadcasts, vidcast, SNL etc) and has always had a much larger staff dedicated to keeping in close contact with Relic plus all the hardcore play-all-day players are located there.
    This also results in convenient ways to test a patch; Broadcasts, vidcasts, good replay system and a lot of feedback speed up things.

    The facts are just that the game is way too old for them to have a dedicated team consisting of developers and testers etc on it so they did the most logic thing, listen to the biggest fanbase, wich is GR, if you like it or not. At the time of testing, wich site do you think would have had the most responses on the changes? GR or relicnews? I watched their testfase closely and at that time there was hardly any activity on here, yes we had a balance-ideas thread but there were about 10-15 people posting in it - GR has ten/twentyfold that. How many community leaders did RN have who were in close contact with Relic at that time? Gr had several. I cant blame Relic to go with that solution.

    Regarding the patch, I too would have loved to see RN being involved in this but I doubt there would be any differences basicly because most changes are generally agreed on plus the feedback of the RN members would be tiny and probably too little to make a difference.

    Personally I think the patch works well eventhough there are still some bugs but once again, these are only well documented on... GR.

  28. #28
    Member ARMYguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cleveland OH
    I have been out of the loop in coh for a while, what are these changes that people here arent agreeing with? I dont remember anything from that patch as being "omg" game is ruined, in fact i remember it being more fun.

  29. #29
    i dunno, i thought 2.602 was great. We had already put in most of the changes they implemented into our mod to try and damage control some of the horrendous pre-patch stuff (TOV units anyone? PIAT spam vs PE?) so i was relieved by how easy it was to integrate the changes.

    90% were common sense changes. i mean, 3 shots out of cloak from a pak? thats rediculous. not to mention buggy from the bonus stacking etc... I guess my only gripes would be the hellcat and geshutz got changed in a kind of fundamental way and the staghound was never made the CCT-lite it was supposed to be but can't complain

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •