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Hey guys,
in my last thread I focused on the negatives of our beloved series. Now arise the question: If Homeworld 3 is ever made, how it should look like? What are your dreams of an ideal new Homeworld? What did you expect as a fan, and what is your wildest dream in the subject?
If you have something on your mind, please write. Any small idea is appreciated!
Mmmm, nothing tbh. If Homeworld 3 is ever going to be made, it'd probably look vastly different than we see it today. If not a brand new monster of things, including:
A. Progenitor integration of fleet stuff
B. Multi-galaxy stuff
C. removal of Races as we know it (I'd be more inclined to see Kiith-based fleets rather than race-based, it develops the story behind each one so much more)
That said, I kinda liked PTV's (Path to Victory) view on Homeworld, just my personal preference. Unlike Norsehound's statement being static comms, I feel dynamic communications develops a game so much more when used properly. Obviously there's cases like Cata and other games where you'd want to turn off voice comms altogether.
Also, the game is artistic to a core, but why I think Homeworld series suffered in was lack of knowledge about the game itself, and conflicting lore-issues (Barking Dog basically bullshitted the campaign, although it's not to say the product was terrible). I kinda liked Homeworld best, with Homeworld 2 ranking close, but Cata belongs as an off-shoot of it's own brand, in my opinion.
As far as a Homeworld 3 though, I don't see it happening as something similar to either homeworld 1 or 2 at all, maybe converting the whole mothership idea into flagships for more unique fleet options, but that's just my idea of it.
I know I sound like a broken record, but...
1) Axis rotation
2) Three races would be cool (it's the magic number!)
3) Formations as they were in hw1 / cata.
4) The same "lost in space, with lots of mysterious lore/history to explore" feel.
5) Terrain interaction (placing explosives on RU patches, having heavier objects have a 'gravity' to them, stuff like that, stuff like that).
But I know it will never happen. Sigh.
1) stay away from beast stuff.
2) kiith based story line ( i really wanna know what happened to somtaaw and their command ships.)
3) multiple campaign story lines would be cool
4) more progenitor based stuff and history revealing
5) terrain interaction like what complex mod team has done to HW2.
6) revealing more of homeworld lore... ( just how and where did makaan managed to get access to THREE of the most fearsome ships in the galaxy. just think if he could bring the main gun to bear on sajuuk.)
What is this "terrain interaction" besides gravity and explosive on asteroid?
What do you think exactly by progenitor integration of fleet?
Anyway. I am thinking of fighter ranges. Instead of fuel. Some races (not all) must bring with them a fuel frigatte, or bigger ship. That does not mean that they refuel themselves in the middle of the battle, but that fuel frigatte must be with them. If destroyed they must head back to mothership.
What is the better the static/almost static mothership of HW1/2 or the almost warship-like mothership as in cata?
And what about this? In multi your mothership is almost static but you can hyperspace one time per game.
Last edited by Thecain; 15th May 12 at 12:19 AM.
Ok this is my dream for a ridiculously intense hw 3
Each player can rotate the plane of their ms which in thurn orients whole fleets, to avoid confusion.
Also bring in fuel for all ships. When placing a move order you also decide the duration of the burn, so your frigs can go much faster but arrive with less fuel.
A realistic mass/ fuel burn to weight ratio, with proper scales and devastaing weapons.
The play area would be much larger relative to the models, and the fleets bigger. Maybe have a play area so big you have an entire planet as your ms with a corresponding gravity well
or perhaps asteroid stations and mships but in massive belts, really make the asteroids huge
that is insane Mad, a realistic mass/fuel burn ratio would be.... well beyond what most full-gaming studios care to consider in their design aspects I would think.
fuel for all ships would be good... Only then you'd have to explain lore-wise why fuel all of a sudden is back in the mix
Terrain interaction is in Complex? wtf?
All for Kiith-Based stuff, but like I said, each to his/her own strength's and weakness in fleets, which is built from a "home station" of sorts, which gives you a flagship to start maybe? Just an idea...
i think the limited fuel is not a good idea. (even for fighters)
multiple story lines for each faction (preferably kiiths) is super cool.
planets as MS?... erm... what?
there are three factors that make or break the game for me (1-Story line 2-Gameplay 3-Story line)
As for the bigger maps I agree, and I also think that at the endgame it would be okay, that the map is starting to shrink just to get the players together. Maybe its an option. But not that big maps as Sins of the Solar empire, but big like Cataclysm multiplayer maps, but horizontally and vertically as well.
Dunno about lore wise, you could explain it gameplay wise, that hw has always been technical and for hw three they were going to increase the ampount of technical tactical skill needed by another order of magnitude. Who knows what conditions arelike on the other side of the wormhole with sajuuk? perhaps all the rarest metals needed to build hyperdrives has been mined by another race?
Maybe there is a super race on the otherside whos ships behave like spacships actually would under power in real space (it always annoyed me how ships drives never cut out when they had reached max speed, what is this mysterious high resistance force stopping frigs from going faster than 300 m/s)
Maybe this race forces the kushan to turn off their forward Verniers, who knows. Not saying that the fuel supply would be small and it would be enough to happily pod around at 300 m/s throughout the whole game if u want. But the ability to go to hard burn and really get up some pace in a massive playsphere would be the natural evolution for realistic space rts for me. In my dreams lol
a physical phenomenon called: Momentum.what is this mysterious high resistance force stopping frigs from going faster than 300 m/s
considering the lore is based on real physics then the fusion drives of a ship can put out x amount of ion mass with a speed of Vx. if the ship's mass is equal to y, then the max speed of the ship would be: Vy= (x * Vx) / y.
But in space there is no resistance so surely that formula would be for the acceleration of the ship not the max speed
Inless the engine was really pussy but taiidan models have 3 massive drive tubes. Spaceshipspeed limited to 300 m/s? lol your really going places in space at that speed.
In space if you continue to apply thrust u get more acceleration
if the drives truly were so weak as to only allow 300m/s then it would take weeks to get up to speed.
Chemical boosters on ships. a well as selecting the lentgh of burn you select a braking distance to bring you back to relative speed to engage. Man movment and combat would be insane.
Missiles with selectable submunitions that set off massive explosions in space, trying to hit enemy ships at massive speeds at massive distances. True engine physics in space and docking points to resupply fuel and ammo.
Instantaneos translation in hyper carrying velocity thru hyper and coming out with all guns blazing
Can you imagine?
Navid i see what you mean as in the stats the ships weigh hundreds of thousands of tonnes (some) and the fighter is a mile long lol. Maybe when they go through the wormhole they get wiped out at high speed by some more realisticly sized ships withmore efficient drives? I mean theyre a race of giants arent they if the fighter is kms long?
Last edited by Madgrenade; 16th May 12 at 1:34 PM.
nope... it is for the max speed... in fact the momentum of something is it's mass multiplied by it's velocityBut in space there is no resistance so surely that formula would be for the acceleration of the ship not the max speed
consider a ship as a system consisting of 2 parts... 1- the ship... 2- the fuel (ion) mass. in this system the total momentum is always constant (if there is no external force) so if the ion propulsion moves out from the back side with a defined speed then the speed of the ship should be such that the total momentum of the ship/fuel system remain zero.
acceleration is defined by the instantaneous difference between the momentums of the ship and it's propulsion... when this difference reaches zero... then the acceleration would be zero.!
Last edited by Navid_A1; 16th May 12 at 1:47 PM.
But surely you can get the ions coming out faster than that. The space shuttle was faster. These guys srsly must be at least half a km tall to ride in the hw ships. With that tiny top speed it would take years to match delta v to another object. Its just surely not feasable to have ships so big
Also once you reached your measly top speed of 300 m/s then there would be no reason to continue running the drives as there would be no force acting to brake the object. When you stop a hw ship the drive dies and it just stops which is pretty funny.
Last edited by Madgrenade; 16th May 12 at 2:01 PM.
Navid_A1 is correct in the total momentum of the ship+its fuel is conserved, so there is a max speed of the ship. However, otherwise Madgrenade has the right of it. Max speed is reached when it has expended all its fuel. A space craft with its engines continually on and holding a constant top speed is nonsense, it should continually accelerate until it turns its engines off or runs out of fuel, which are both practically the same thing. Unless of course it is fighting some form of resistance or gravitational acceleration. Ship movement in Homeworld is not consistent with any real world physics and is simply a gameplay construct.
Navid is incorrect in his definition of acceleration. Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity. It is related to momentum, but not in that fashion.
Personally, while nods to real science is fun, physically accurate gameplay doesn't have much place in Homeworld. That's not what Homeworld is.
To address the OP, my dream HW3... honestly it'd be a rereleased HW1. Don't screw with the story much, hell keep the old VA work and music as much as possible, roll in the UI improvements that have happened since then, get some new netcode in there, fix the old MP exploits, revisit the original concept art and do it anew in modern graphical fidelity in a modern engine. Maybe move on and redo Cata the same way. Then move forward and do a new HW2 that junks everything from HW2 and starts over. Forget the dustwars docs, forget the cores, forget everything and start over from the basis of 1 and C.
Realistic? No, not really. There are HW3s that I find much more likely to happen than this. But if you want to know my dream, that's it.
Last edited by Siber; 16th May 12 at 2:35 PM.
Co-founder of Homeworld:@
Open to new members
If you put constant force to an object it's velocity will grow. Like gravity: every second your speed is increasing if you fall. So if you afterburn on a jetplane it will accelerate, until your fuel is empty. That is the problem. If you afterburn the whole time it is less than 10 minutes, until your tank goes dry.
The problem with real physics is that you must decrease velocity too. So you start your journey accelerate, than halfway you turn the craft to your rear and burn your engines just to be able to stop at the end. The battle is much harder to even think of. Basicly your can't control your units that good. If they start a motion, they must take the time to stop.
Last edited by Thecain; 16th May 12 at 2:56 PM.
I think there is definitly room for some more nods, such as drives that cut out when top speed is reached and are used only for maneuvering and definitly bring back fuel for fighters.
Also all ships should create wrekage that carries its velocity and can be salvage for ru or refit depending on damage(If you can catch it before it sails out of play). And if a battlecruisers/ dessies engine was hit while it was underway that should mean it is unable to stop until engines are repaired. Could mean a new role for ramming frigs and emergency tugs.
Well thats an interesting concept to think of.
acceleration = dv/dtNavid is incorrect in his definition of acceleration. Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity. It is related to momentum, but not in that fashion.
force = mass * acceleration = m * dv/dt = d (m *v)/dt = dp/dt
since the mass of an object is constant the rate of change in velocity is equal to rate of change in momentum (multiplied in the constant m).!
#20
In space you can accelerate all the way up to near lightspeed if you have enough fuel. End of story. There are no max speeds when there is no resistance. If 300ms was the genuine top speed of a frigate, it would never be able to stop.
Anyways, perhaps have the ships turn off their main drives when they reach their normal speed, and then have an "war emergency speed" option where a ship or group of ships will accelerate to the halfway point, then turn and decelerate for the second half. It would be much faster, the only catch being that once you give the order they have to complete the move and can't be rerouted or randomly told to stop!
My ideal for HW3 is that there are megaliths and a resourcing system based on terrain, more like CoH. Turret frigates would attach to megaliths. Shipyards would be permanent structures on megaliths that you can't bring with you. Scrap the crappy little bunches of asteroids and gas pockets. I don't care what era it's set in - maybe a prequel showing how the exiles got exiled?
that's right. but that's possible if they have unlimited fuel.!In space you can accelerate all the way up to near lightspeed if you have enough fuel. End of story.
maybe frigates and large ships tend to keep the speed around 300 to be able to maneuver at the time of emergency. so they can quickly bring the ship to a halt ( in docking maneuvers or lining up against targets )
that's very nice even to imagine ... it's what HW2 was going to be...My ideal for HW3 is that there are megaliths and a resourcing system based on terrain, more like CoH. Turret frigates would attach to megaliths. Shipyards would be permanent structures on megaliths that you can't bring with you.
i do.I don't care what era it's set in - maybe a prequel showing how the exiles got exiled?
i like mysteries. i don't want to play a story that i know bit by bit. i want to be surprised (in a good way)... i want to see the unseen... i want to know about the eye of araan.
So think about this megalith structures gameplay as in Starcraft? Like the space platforms there? So it's like a traditional RTS?
What is the eyes of araan?
homeworld 2 final cutscene:What is the eyes of araan?
Hey guys. I'm thinking, if multiple storylines are set. What would happen, if certain races don't have certain classes of ships. For example Vaygr don't have corvettes, except for commant corvette. Hiigaran don't have fighters: max scout. I never liked kushan/hiigaran fighters anyway. Don't you feel too that some ships are just really unnecesary?
#25
The more different the races are the harder it is to balance for competitive play. So that's part of the reason thecain. As for megaliths it wouldn't really be like starcraft in the sense that you'd still be doing most of your fighting in space and there'd still be a Z axis. There probably wouldn't be much or anything in the way of ground units besides turrets and some structures or modules.
You can see from concept art and the docs that HW2 was originally meant to be like this. Marine Frigates were designed for taking over ground based structures, not ships. Platforms were meant to attach to surfaces, not float in space. The shipyard was never meant to be a ship unto itself. They were going to change the resourcing system too - the ideas eventually found their way into DoW and CoH instead.
Navid, a prequel could have plenty of mystery and unexplored stuff to investigate. We aren't given much information at all about why the exiles were exiled - all we really know is that it happened. That's a massive story that could be told, and yes, the eye of arran could be included in that if done right. Just need to use a little imagination!
Interesting concept. That's how it became territorial. But if you know the map, you know where the enemy should be. Less mystery in it, I guess. But it's a good concept I like it.
Why they cancelled this megalith concept? And what about this resourcing thing? How it should be different?
it can have plenty of mysteries indeed... like how the bentusi found the first core... why they shared the technology... the T-MAT (who are they... why are they evil... what are their intentions) - how the hiigarans found the second core... why they bombarded the taiidan homeworld... how they hid their core from the taiidani invaders (not why the exiles were exiled... i think we know why). even the progenitor back story can fit in with a bit of wild imaginationNavid, a prequel could have plenty of mystery and unexplored stuff to investigate. We aren't given much information at all about why the exiles were exiled - all we really know is that it happened. That's a massive story that could be told, and yes, the eye of arran could be included in that if done right. Just need to use a little imagination!
but i want to see a sequel... (it gives me the sense of uncovering mysteries)... a prequel can be so much fun... but it somehow lacks the sense of... exploring the unknown...!.......... having both would be a dream come true.
And what if it is just an episode of the HW universe. It's sequel, but it is not about the fate of the Hiigarans, but a story about isolated events. Like in the Dawn of War series. You the story of one war, but don't know the whole story of...for example the space marines.
Gamewise, storywise and plotwise id like to see a prequel to the 3 games, Just before the hiigarans were exiled from hiigara because of their blindness etc, wiping out the taiidani homeworld with their mighty fleet with sajuuks wrath and then getting the crap kicked outta them by the bentusi. Then you all know the rest for that story.
Hey guys. I never join these things, then I had hopes that some of the people on this forum might actually have some say in the development of HM3- if relic survives what may/may not be going down at THQ.
Even though I was a kid, watching Kharak burn was one of the most emotionally intense things I have experienced (outside of my own actual life). It bought my loyalty to this brand, and to the subsequent lesser titles. I played that mission until I saved all 600,000. Then I captured every ship I could and put a hurtin on the emperor. I did like cata tho- loved the idea of being the underdog mining Kiith. Here is my perfect HW
1) Story line. I wouldn't be writing this now if it wasn't for HW 1's story line. Maybe its just me, but I think sequels are better than prequels. Knowing what is going to happen eventually is always kind of a let down that prequels can't escape. So I would like to know what happens after the "era of sjett" (or maybe we could just forget about HW2?). For those of us interested in the Kiith system (I can't believe how rich it is) I think 1000 years is more than enough time for the Hiigaran people to prosper to empire, and then fracture based on the old cultural lines. With a divided Hiigaran Empire, and perhaps a persistant imperial empire, an external threat to all people (resulting in unity) would be a satisfying storyline... although the same thing sort of happened in cata. I am a doctor, not a writer if any of you are please make the storyline awesome. Obsess about it.
It would be could to have options in mission selection with different missions bringing the possibility of recruiting new populations or gaining new ships/techs (sort of similar to starcraft, but ideally more complex)
2) Fighters. I read the entire manual (with awesomely lore rich) that came with the first game an embarrassingly amount of times, including the nuanced tactical debate between the pro-capital ship admiral and pro-fighter admiral. After reading the debate I thought that fighters where the way to go, only to find out that in pretty much all the games two missile destroyers will demolish every fighter force. In the games there really is no need for fighters unless you have maxed out your capital ships and have the extra resources. I definitely love the idea of giving fighters fuel back, but they need to be have more powerful weapons OR you should be able to build a lot more of them.
You can already shrink the fighters down to there normal size by selecting the NLIPS option in the HW2 menu. They are that large so they are easier to see.
3) Capital ships. HW is better than all the other space strategy games because of its focus on tactics. It could learn something from SoSE by letting capital ships level up and have names. Also, I think HW would benefit from greatly increasing its unit caps. That said, it would be a sin (heh) to follow the vastly inferior SoSE too much. These games are fun from a macro view but really skirt all tactics. Despite differing angles, all combat pretty much is 2D and vector has no bearing on combat. Nor does ship placement. There is no way for an smaller force to beat a larger force.
Personally, I would love, LOVE to see true actual physics play in ship movement, with fuel for capital ships. It would add significant strategic value as one would have to maintain fuel ship supplie lines. Stopping ships during their travel from point A to point B would cost fuel and time as they would have to build up speed again. With no max speed ships would get going really fast- this would be type of travel that no gamer has experience yet. Absolute fidelity to physics would be entire unique to HW. In itself it could make the story line more real. It would be difficult for gamers at first because for some unknown reason we are accustomed to air resistance in space, but it could be made easier to factor in with an info read out showing destination ETA, and estimated fuel at arrival, etc. Ships that run out of fuel would have to turn back to the mother ship, burn their last reserves, and limp home- all the while being harassed by fighters (which should be longer range). Also, the idea for some kind of max burn is excellent.
4) Unit Caps- are really BS and unrealistic. Instead, it would be cool to have a max population sustainable with the MS/fleet that could be distributed to your ships (maybe with %functioning based off of %staffed). When ships are destroyed a salvage operation could return some of your people, but really most of your population would have to come from recruitment from other sources (planets, nomadic fleets, etc). This could add a whole diplomacy angle especially if different populations brought different abilities to the fleet. Diplomacy in its own right could add a lot of depth to the campaign and lend to the multiple possible endings that are so popular/demanded today.
5) Combat- bring back HW1 formations and tactic orders. As a mentioned about, 2 axis strategy is weak- and HW3 should not only stick with its realistic roots by keeping the 3 axis, but double down and try for a real physics system. A complex game makes for a loyal fan base and in my opinion is HW's best shot at doing something totally unique. Of course this sounds good on paper...
5) The black and white cut scenes have to come back! Also, the music selection should be carefully selected- kharak burning to adagio for strings sung by quire of voyces really made that moment poignant.
Just some thoughts. Sorry for the essay but I really want to see this game! In my observation great games come from people who love those games- or at least that love is why they put the kind of depth in a the game that makes it great. This depth always show up in the little things- like interesting and compelling backgrounds behind researched techs, or minor race profiles, or inter/intra kiith politics- all of these ingredients make a rich lore. I clearly loved HW 1 and have come out of my shell because I think you all do too. Thanks for reading if you still are.
----------
Hey guys. I never join these things, then I had hopes that some of the people on this forum might actually have some say in the development of HM3- if relic survives what may/may not be going down at THQ.
Even though I was a kid, watching Kharak burn was one of the most emotionally intense things I have experienced (outside of my own actual life). It bought my loyalty to this brand, and to the subsequent lesser titles. I played that mission until I saved all 600,000. Then I captured every ship I could and put a hurtin on the emperor. I did like cata tho- loved the idea of being the underdog mining Kiith. Here is my perfect HW
1) Story line. I wouldn't be writing this now if it wasn't for HW 1's story line. Maybe its just me, but I think sequels are better than prequels. Knowing what is going to happen eventually is always kind of a let down that prequels can't escape. So I would like to know what happens after the "era of sjett" (or maybe we could just forget about HW2?). For those of us interested in the Kiith system (I can't believe how rich it is) I think 1000 years is more than enough time for the Hiigaran people to prosper to empire, and then fracture based on the old cultural lines. With a divided Hiigaran Empire, and perhaps a persistant imperial empire, an external threat to all people (resulting in unity) would be a satisfying storyline... although the same thing sort of happened in cata. I am a doctor, not a writer if any of you are please make the storyline awesome. Obsess about it.
It would be could to have options in mission selection with different missions bringing the possibility of recruiting new populations or gaining new ships/techs (sort of similar to starcraft, but ideally more complex)
2) Fighters. I read the entire manual (with awesomely lore rich) that came with the first game an embarrassingly amount of times, including the nuanced tactical debate between the pro-capital ship admiral and pro-fighter admiral. After reading the debate I thought that fighters where the way to go, only to find out that in pretty much all the games two missile destroyers will demolish every fighter force. In the games there really is no need for fighters unless you have maxed out your capital ships and have the extra resources. I definitely love the idea of giving fighters fuel back, but they need to be have more powerful weapons OR you should be able to build a lot more of them.
You can already shrink the fighters down to there normal size by selecting the NLIPS option in the HW2 menu. They are that large so they are easier to see.
3) Capital ships. HW is better than all the other space strategy games because of its focus on tactics. It could learn something from SoSE by letting capital ships level up and have names. Also, I think HW would benefit from greatly increasing its unit caps. That said, it would be a sin (heh) to follow the vastly inferior SoSE too much. These games are fun from a macro view but really skirt all tactics. Despite differing angles, all combat pretty much is 2D and vector has no bearing on combat. Nor does ship placement. There is no way for an smaller force to beat a larger force.
Personally, I would love, LOVE to see true actual physics play in ship movement, with fuel for capital ships. It would add significant strategic value as one would have to maintain fuel ship supplie lines. Stopping ships during their travel from point A to point B would cost fuel and time as they would have to build up speed again. With no max speed ships would get going really fast- this would be type of travel that no gamer has experience yet. Absolute fidelity to physics would be entire unique to HW. In itself it could make the story line more real. It would be difficult for gamers at first because for some unknown reason we are accustomed to air resistance in space, but it could be made easier to factor in with an info read out showing destination ETA, and estimated fuel at arrival, etc. Ships that run out of fuel would have to turn back to the mother ship, burn their last reserves, and limp home- all the while being harassed by fighters (which should be longer range). Also, the idea for some kind of max burn is excellent.
4) Unit Caps- are really BS and unrealistic. Instead, it would be cool to have a max population sustainable with the MS/fleet that could be distributed to your ships (maybe with %functioning based off of %staffed). When ships are destroyed a salvage operation could return some of your people, but really most of your population would have to come from recruitment from other sources (planets, nomadic fleets, etc). This could add a whole diplomacy angle especially if different populations brought different abilities to the fleet. Diplomacy in its own right could add a lot of depth to the campaign and lend to the multiple possible endings that are so popular/demanded today.
5) Combat- bring back HW1 formations and tactic orders. As a mentioned about, 2 axis strategy is weak- and HW3 should not only stick with its realistic roots by keeping the 3 axis, but double down and try for a real physics system. A complex game makes for a loyal fan base and in my opinion is HW's best shot at doing something totally unique. Of course this sounds good on paper...
5) The black and white cut scenes have to come back! Also, the music selection should be carefully selected- kharak burning to adagio for strings sung by quire of voyces really made that moment poignant.
Just some thoughts. Sorry for the essay but I really want to see this game! In my observation great games come from people who love those games- or at least that love is why they put the kind of depth in a the game that makes it great. This depth always show up in the little things- like interesting and compelling backgrounds behind researched techs, or minor race profiles, or inter/intra kiith politics- all of these ingredients make a rich lore. I clearly loved HW 1 and have come out of my shell because I think you all do too. Thanks for reading if you still are.
*cries softly* Your optimism is admirable , only idea for home world 3 is for leave home so someone can mess with the IP. Also, converting sajuuk to a active mother ship.
No qaurter back men, only forward or we will hold this line forever!!!
[IMG][/IMG]
Row Row Row Fight the Powha
It's great to see people who are passionate about this game, about all its aspects, not simply 'bigger ships bigger guns'.
For me, like many others, it was the story that made homeworld such a compelling game. I would stray away from the 'unifying threat' kind of storyline. IMO that storyline is a total dud, it's a gimmick offered by unimaginative writers, it's boring and it ignores all the rich and subtle complexities that could be offered by the HW universe.
Certainly there is potential in the inter-kiith tension/conflict scenario, and as others have said, it would be best to move away from highly separated races altogether.
In HW I loved the idea of a revolution/civil-war going on in the Taiidan Empire at the same time as I was carving a bloody path through the galaxy. The way the revolutionaries used the struggle of the mothership as a beacon of hope and resistance, while the Imperialists tried to snuff it out of existence, brilliant.
Would it be interesting to have the Hiigaran Empire fracturing and disintegrating much as the Taiidan Empire did? Although the nature of the Hiigaran Empire was probably much different, what potential conflicts might exist within it?
Does the Kiithid social structure still exist, what forms might it have taken over the centuries? Is it gonna be an inter-kiith struggle, much like the inter-national struggles we have today, or are kiith interests only a part of a more complicated matrix?
Here's an idea, call it bullshit propaganda if you will:
After the retreat of the Vaygr, and the uniting of those hyperspace things (wasnt too keen on the 'Sajuuk' element, seemed a bit fantastical to me), massive areas of the galaxy are opened to a Hiigaran Empire without any serious enemy (think about the West after the fall of the Soviet Union). With a galactic council that becomes increasingly pro-Hiigaran, and a potentailly unlimited amount of space to expand into, the Hiigaran Empire becomes incredibly wealthy and powerful. With increased social (and physical) mobility, traditional kiith structures break down, their cultural power diminishes, though they still maintain a powerful presence in the Empire. Loyalties are now fostered towards a united Hiigaran Republic, societies on the fringes of Hiigaran civilization are either assimilated or destroyed. Many years pass. Increasingly, the wealth of the galaxy becomes concentrated in the hands of a fairly small number of Hiigarans. Where once technology had made great leaps forward, now it obsesses over small technical improvements, particularly in military technology. Economic depression leads to a number of revolts on outer-rim worlds, sparking a swift and brutal reprisal, especially for Hiigaran standards. Mass media tries to undermine the credibility of the revolts, positing that everything is just fine, blaming the violence on a small number of 'terrorist' individuals. But Hiigaran worlds are being militarized, police powers grow out of control, travel becomes restricted, wealthy gated communities import luxury goods and all the while Hiigaran workers get poorer and poorer.
Enter the player, the leader of a tiny guerilla fleet of disenchanted Hiigarans. Seemingly at war with the entire galaxy, hunted by the Hiigaran military, they hide in deep space and await their inevitable doom...
Last edited by Jingo; 7th Jun 12 at 1:06 PM.
I want to back off of the Space Mysticism, and go back to regular old Space Opera. HW 1 had an incredible storyline but HW2 got to be kind of silly with the religious bent they added to everything.
What I REALLY want is drop-in / drop-out multiplayer. This would be mmo-esque but not impossible, I think.
The galaxy consists of X number of star systems / empty space areas / megaliths / whatever. Each system is given resources that spawn occasionally and resources / environments are different from system to system so players have an incentive to keep moving around. Resources wouldn't stay the same over time, a system that contains "titanium" or whatever might contain "uranium" instead 5 days later. The total number of systems should be such that they aren't all populated... perhaps even as many as 50% being empty at a given time. The rough idea is, you want players to encounter each other frequently but not constantly. Instead of having a "game", where one fleet fights another until there is a victor, systems are "open" and can be entered or left by anyone at any time. Maybe a battle is going well for you until your opponents' friends show up. Maybe you successfully force an opponent to withdraw his fleet, and you decide to regroup and harvest resources for a while.
Players are represented in the game by their Fleets. These consist of the Homeworld Fleet that we all know and love, The Mothership surrounded by support vessels. Players Fleets can harvest resources in an area, build new ships or research new technologies with those resources, and of course fight one another. Your fleet in space is essentially the same as a regular homeworld level. Travel between systems would be accomplished by hyperspace jump. Your mothership gets hyperspace by default, but it must be added to lesser capital ships (like the carrier or Battlecruiser in HW2 multiplayer). Each Hyperspace Jump requires resources, and each hyperspace capable ship can only bring so many small ships with them. Your Fleet is PERSISTENT. You keep only what you create yourself, and anything left behind (destroyed, damaged, or too far away from hyperspace capable vessels) is gone when you leave an area. Abandoned ships can be boarded and salvaged by others. If your entire fleet is destroyed, simply start over with a new mothership somewhere quiet, and rebuild!
Other rough ideas I haven't fleshed out yet
-Motherships can "level up" or unlock upgrades, meaning there's some penalty to starting over. You can't just suicide your fleet constantly if you want access to the cool stuff. This could be resource or tech based, like a lot of the upgrades in HW2
-Preventing a defeated enemy from running away. I'm not sure what the best plan for this one is, but my first idea was to put a charge-up time on hyperspace jumps. the more ships / longer distance the jump, the more charge up time required. This would probably be fairly long but uninterruptible, adding drama to the battle as suddenly you have a time limit to do as much damage as possible before their fleet disappears. Capital ships charging up their drives can't move or attack, but gain extra shields or some other method of survivability. Smaller ships can defend the capital ships right up until the Jump without being left behind, but if the jumping ship is destroyed they will be left.
-Small fleets need some advantage over big fleets, or there will be just bullies roaming around with mega-fleets. I think making hyperspace costs scale in such a way as to make a truly invincible fleet impossible to transport is one idea. I don't like the idea of forcing people to build their fleet in certain directions, if you want a doom fleet you should be able to build it. But perhaps it's stuck in that system? Obviously this is important for balance. Another idea is that smaller fleets can hyperspace jump farther away, meaning they can get "lost in space" while the larger fleet lags behind and eventually loses the trail.
-Sending scouts to other systems to see what's ahead. No idea how this would work. Maybe some sort of scouting drone that tells you how many ships / players are in the next system? These could have upgrades like advanced drone that sees exactly what types of ships, or cloaking drone that observes them undetected.
-Possible progenitor tech to be discovered. Maybe you find a clue in system X that leads you to a functional dreadnought hidden in system Y, but you have to defeat a progenitor guardian before you can take it. The dreadnaught gives you considerable firepower but once it's gone, you've lost it, and you'll have to find another. Ideally these would be so rare that hunting for them would be difficult.
-No "Victory". I think this open style allows people to do what they want. Do you want a massive War Fleet? Go for it. Maybe you want a harvester fleet that trades resources to other players? Sure! A stealthy, small fleet that relies on high tech to cloak itself away from prying eyes while it explores for ancient tech? You bet.
The basic idea is to try to take the "wandering civilization" of the single player game and put it into a multiplayer context. It would be tough to balance, but what a universe it would be!
Thoughts?
#34
>Somewhere< on this thread is my in-depth description of what I wanted Homeworld 3 to be. I'm not feeling up to digging it up, however I'll try to put it in succinct points.
1. Return of the Taiidan, Turanics, and interaction with the Vaygr. All of these races have great potential on galactic politics and their relation to the Hiigarans. Using the character of these empires and making them active against the Hiigarans in a third war would be interesting, deep, and somewhat resembling a plausible war in that it is the culmination of many national interests, instead of good v evil.
2. The Antagonists with moral justification and not just "For the evuls". I wanted to bring the Taiidan back under a benevolent Emperor who called out the Hiigarans for hoarding Progenitor technology and not sharing it with the rest of the universe. His motives are just, and so are the Hiigaran's for being the Bentus-appointed keepers of the mantle of wisdom. On the other hand, there are some Hiigaran leaders who want to use that power to cow the other races into submission.
3. More focus on the longevity of ships. Frigates in Homeworld 2 die with discouraging ease. Frigates in Homeworld 1 had some lasting power. Somehow the former needs to be meshed into the latter.
4. Focus more on the ships, less on the resourcing model. Taken at face value one can think ships in Homeworld are hot-off-the-press cheap to manufacture and are incredibly expendable. In making Frigates less squishy, remove the resource model and say these ships are manufactured by serious shipyards and made to last.
5. Semi-sandbox strategic mode. My proposal for Homeworld 3 would be something of a sandbox set in the eastern half of the first version of my map. The player fleet and fleets of friendly NPCs would be going against enemy NPC forces. Some events and battles would be scripted into the scenario, others would be random events. Using the T-Mat as secretive manipulators of both events, a timer would be in place to force the players into battles to attain their campaign objectives before the T-Mat are successful with theirs.
6. Complete a trilogy. Homeworld was about reclaiming Hiigara. Homeworld 2 was about taking the mantle of the Bentusi and the progenitors. Homeworld 3 should be about the battle of Hiigara's spirit: whether they descend back into being universal conquerors or use their new power for benevolent purposes. This will be Karan's swansong.
Native Taiidani
Author: Children of Kadesh, Children of Kadesh (book 2), The Taiidan Civil War, The Fire ,Tradition, Outcry (oneshot), Chronicles of the Nadiim-Basad,
and maker of the Map of the Homeworld universe, and the Homeworld 2 Grand Strategy Game. Responsible for Cataclysm 2nd. Also has a running short story collection.
I like the idea of fuel for fighters only. For the big ships and their huge reactors rigged for deep space it should be refuel every few long jumps. Perhaps from suns.
Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
HW3 need little improvements...HW2 is a masterpiece...Fuel for fighters is a good idea..
Homeworld 2 facebook group-->https://www.facebook.com/groups/HW2online/
#37
argh the necro.
I will say this: if HW3 ever does come out and doesn't have megaliths (well implemented), I wont buy it. The lack of them is the single main reason I didn't bother actually buying HW2 when it eventually did hit the shelves.
#38
You missed out Vijil. Even without the derelicts it's still a pretty great experience. Maybe it's a little more formulatic on the hard counters, but I find the experience in HW2 to be full and engaging compared to how empty Homeworld 1 seemed... and how gimmick-ridden the Cataclysm fleets were.
#39
Oh I did buy it eventually, and enjoyed it (though it was much too hard and I ended up using cheats out of pure frustration, 30+ attempts at any one mission is just ridiculous). Was overall still disappointed due to what could have been.
Megaliths are a must. it's a pity HW2 got rid of them in the last minute.
Quote from Norsehound:
Ramming frigate....It's not a unit, it's an in-game avatar of an internet troll.
Everyone has a different experience. I loved the feeling in HW1 of not know what we were going to find next. HW2 I kind of felt exactly the opposite. I didn't feel 'engaged' at all. I must admit I did not like the cheese of Cataclysm.but I find the experience in HW2 to be full and engaging compared to how empty Homeworld 1 seemed
I like this idea:
3. More focus on the longevity of ships.
Then again, I feel we are talking into the wind here. I'd love to see a new HW game. One can only wish...
#42
I should clarify by saying I was referring to the multiplayer/skirmish experience. It fits well with the campaign theme of trundling through the empty parts of the galaxy to find a secret route home. But the homeworld experience in Multiplayer only gets populous if you spend the time cranking out an enormous fleet. Homeworld 2 MP just feels like more is going on and you have a real fleet under your fingers.
Hopefully improved cpu intelligence
MOD ability
Big galaxy where you choose your own path to the goal. What ever that night be.
Oh did I mention... MOD ABILITY!
projenitors can GTFO! they shouldent exist, homeworld 1 historical documentation is as followed:
"Toward the lower aft portion of
the ship lies the large shielded area containing the
Hyperspace Module. This is a direct copy of the
one found under the sands of Khar-Toba, but
expanded twelve-fold to accommodate a vessel of
the Mothership’s mass."
thus. there are more than 3 frikin hyperspace cores. and this also means that there are at least 4 to start with anyway. because the kadesh had red waveforms.
so projenitor = fuck
eye of aaran = possible, as long as it was not made by projenitors because then it would = fuck
sjet should be dead by hw2 anyway. cataclysm was 15 years, and hw2 has completely different ships. so another 20/30 years? she should be old woman, not the same as she was in hw1
#46
IMO, they should do a sandbox style of game. You can build your fleet and go anywhere in the galaxy. You have to explore/fight/investigate your way through the plot. Think HW meet Star Control 2....
Why not create thousands of mini-maps where each map would have a few planets where players could anchor stations to, such as Tanis, so that motherships could be built and sold to other players?
To access a new map area the player would have to use a special gate that allows them to cross the void between each system. Players could form their own clans and conquer systems to capture resources and relics like the engine core that powers Mothership to advance their clans system claims.
Capturing or discovering various relics could also be used to develop new ships that could then be used by other players in their fleets once they have researched the new design that has been purchased from another player or given to another player by another player.
There could be laws established in a system where fighting was not allowed to happen. If fighting did happen then special units would be deployed by the system owner to destroy the ship that attacked first.
Once again requiring research to be conducted in order to use the special units.
To gain control over a system the player or player guild would have to first defeat the local NPC and take over each of their stations in orbit around the planets in the system map.
Once that happened the clan could create it own system laws and rules.
The game play would still be centered around the player controlling alot of ships at one time but with a much more diverse and exciting theme of game play.
One area would involve mission running. The player would accept a certain type of mission from the Mission Agent Hub in a system. Once complete the player would receive various rewards like RU, ship tech that could be fitted to a ship in a hangar to increase the ships abilities or even items of value based upon the storyline that could then be sold or traded. Such items when being held onto by the person would give their ships special abilities.
#48
Honestly I can't stand non linear games. Never finished one. Storytelling is always so weak, and isn't made up for by the gameplay. So it's a big NO from me as far as a sandbox/non-linear/MMO gametypes go. Well crafted linear storytelling is always better as far as player engagement and emotional involvement goes, and that's precisely why HW1 did so well. There's a reason pick-a-path novels never really took off - it kills the story.
Hi guys,
I'll try to keep this short or direct.
1 - I would make HW3 easier to make singleplayer isolated missions or campaigns by the fans, even including tools for that;
2 - I would exploit the fall of the Taiidans, the rise of the Vaygr and the spionage of Hiigara and the Bentusi. I would create a story where the Hiigarans would have made an assessment to diminish it's war machine ($$$$$ costs), meanwhile the Taiidans where going weak by it's own with the strugle of subfactions, the death of Elson or his allies as an organizational force, ending the story suggesting the ressurgence of Makaan, the arguments for the 3 core and how Makaan could have taken over the Vaygr. I would create also the concept of post-orbital races, which means races that are not able to hyperspace, have militar airspace technology and any desired resource in their worlds in order to be attacked or assaulted. Maybe the collection of them would become the Vaygr. In practice, small dedicated fleets that could be expanded by mods after the release;
3 - Paralel to a campaign I would offer SP missions ship-oriented, to force you learn how to use some of the ships. A tactical approach with a micro-storyline;
4 - Since they are absent for 10 years now, I would create a 3 race plot and assymetrical fleets, and I know it is hard to balance;
5 - I would keep the "mechanical" design appeal and the diversified weapons systems;
6 - I would explore better the mind-blowing background of suns, moons and planets associated with space bases to attack, defend and destroy, like mods have been doing. I mean, a space-base is stablished nearby a planet appeal, in a LOOK like the last mission over Hiigara. I would exploit structures more to be used in SP and MP;
7 - If I would be an executive trying to launch a game, I would bring the modders closer to the commercial strategy. Like selecting some serious mods (also making contracts) and releasing the game to them first before a major release, so by the time the game is launched you already get some new features as WIP in the communities - the things that the company didn't have time to create or were cut-off. Inside the game in skirmish mode you could even select these mods (and others later) as contractors and order their ships for specific roles in your warfare. I think Path-to-Victory has done that (correct me if I am wrong) but instead of selecting an icon and a ship comes from hyperspace, you receive a shipyard with the mod badge;
8 - A more defensive game where you have key ships (targets) to defend or you won't be able to achieve whatever (smells complex here)...
Please use the numbers to comment, criticize or request explanation.
Had this thread before.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...lay-Suggestion
Others:
1. Really good story with no multiple endings(hated multiple endings).
2. No spoilers on trailer or game play like today's games
3. New Multiplayer modes that keep you going, like the examples from above linked.
4. New Ships, factions and Research tabs. Example from above for research(linked)
5. Not a MMO. For some reason that Relic/THQ decides it should be an MMO(God No!)
6. New possibilities. Examples: Bring your passive upgrade ships from single player into multiplayer / set those passive upgrades in multiplayer option before starting the game. (Skill Tree Upgrade idea is passive, upgrade once, limited/restricted, upgrade one thing you cannot upgrade the other(link above)) or playing a different faction for another campaign.
7. Don't change the game play, back to HW2 style with a more upgraded format at the most, learning curve isn't too difficult or it is not like Sin of the Solar Empire.
8. Probably a special Bentusi Campaign or some other special DLC/Bonus Campaign.
"Space is full of mysteries. For every planet there could life, for every dust there is history, for every galaxy there could be danger waiting for you to explore."
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