6th edition 40K?

[Fixer]

Had my first game of 6th edition last night using my Lion Guard Assault marine army Vs an Ultramarine mostly on foot army.


Points to note:

• Only half your army can be in reserve unless they're units that always start in deep strike (like demons or drop pods)
• Bonus to reserve rules mean that descent of angels is now even more awesome. That's an 8/9 chance to deep strike 2nd turn instead of 3/4
• Shooting rules mean that mobile units with guns can do some serious damage to units with special weapons/characters.
• Deep striking 30 assault marines to the flank of his army then bolt pistolling down the closest special weapons and knocking out Sgt spared me a lot of return fire.
• As such, positioning your special weapons and Sgts in units is now really, REALLY important but also that there are now some smart ways to position things.
• My 4x Plasma Honour Guard unit is the king of awesome.
• Vehicles are much, much more vulnerable. I lost a Predator to a drop pod tactical squad glancing the rear armour to death.
• Drop pods now deploy disembarked units 6" away, so they're much more versatile.
• Warlord abilities are fun.
• Mephiston is still a complete monster. Since fleet isn't a run move, he gets to use his plasma pistol more often now as well.
• I now get armour saves and also FNP saves against dangerous terrain so my guys are much happier about jumping or deepstriking in unsafe places.
• Hammer of Wrath really powers up jump packs. With 10 free automatic hits, that's equivalent to 20 extra attacks on the charge at I10
• You can only use hammer of Wrath if you haven't used the jump pack in the movement phase, so long range charges are less dangerous.
• Challenges in close combat mean you'll probably be wanting to add some storm shields to sergeants or have decent characters attached to close combat units. If the only guy in the unit doing damage is the one with the Sgt with the powerfist, you want to make sure an enemy character isn't forcing you to accept the duel and get murdered or declining and ending up out of the combat.
• Night Fighting rules are no longer 'how far you can see' instead they are bonuses to cover saves and max range of 36" shooting.
• There' no more 'cannot rally within 6" of the enemy' so Combat tactics has the potential to be useful in this edition.

[ph03nIXx]

Good points, both because I play DoA and because there are a few things I totally overlooked while reading.

One thing though:

Mephiston is still a complete monster. Since fleet isn't a run move, he gets to use his plasma pistol more often now as well.

What? From what I gathered form the rules, there is no such thing like Fleet move anymore - only rerolling run and charge dice... or is it just me loosing your point due to my enlish-inept-ishness?

[Fixer]

Previously fleet meant that you could run and still assault.
Since fleet now gives you rerolls on charge distance I can now shoot my pistol and enjoy an improved charge range.

[ph03nIXx]

yeah, that's what I was thinking. So only missunderstanding on my part.

[RGilbert26]

What bugs me is that they've added flakk missile but nothing in the FAQs for who can take them.

[OhJohnNo]

You can only use hammer of Wrath if you haven't used the jump pack in the movement phase, so long range charges are less dangerous.

Where does it say this in the rules?

[another penguin]

Oh,John,No: Its on page 47.

"Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement or Assault phase - they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn."

"a model that uses its jump pack to charge gains the Hammer of Wrath special rule for the remainder of the turn."

[ph03nIXx]

@Gilbert

I'd say they don't need to FAQ it into the codex. Looking at the comprehensive Weapon Table in Appendix II, the one that features EVERY DAMN WEAPON IN EVERY CODEX - nice work, GW *no sarcarsm intended* - says Missile Launchers may fire flakk missiles. So I'd guess that list takes precedence, just like the unit overview takes precedence over 5th Ed. Codizes.

[SilverTabby]

Escept that the BRB says Codex trumps BRB, and that *some* missile launchers have the ability to upgrade to FLakk missiles.

[ph03nIXx]

that *some* missile launchers have the ability to upgrade to FLakk missiles.

which would be? I haven't seen said weapon change in any FAQ - overlooked?

And while the Book says Codex Trumps rulebook, the FAQs of older codizes got an extra paragraph concerning differences that don't add up to the rules in the BRB in general and in Appendix II especially, which essentially says where rules are written out differently, they are taken to be identical with the rules in Appendix II - Hull points, unit types, weapons are explicitly mentioned.

[RGilbert26]

@ph03nIXx - Unfortuneatly in the rulebook under weapons, for missile launchers it specifically states that some can be upgraded with Flakk Missile, it does not say which or all have it. So this means that until such time as either they are FAQed or a new codex comes out, you can't use them.

[adeptus]

Well I alo had a game of 6th ed the other day, and to make things fun we used the allies rules as well, so I was facing off against Eldar/DE with my SM/IG. Got a few things out of this too Firstly autocannons are now very awesome for the glancing rules, though I dont have one Iam definitely considering a maxed autocannon dread. Secondly mech armies really have to rethink their strategies because they really wont work the way they used to, the eldar/DE were largely mech and were beaten back by my relatively poor anti tank. As has been said before positioning is hugely important with being able to kill units front to back. Deep strike is more forgiving now and with refined reserve rules will be a greater part of games i think. Finally I found the rules actually lead to more memorable moments during the game, the greatest of which in mine was having a lone meltagun stormtrooper (cos its a lot easier to stay in the fight with morale) shoot down a raider in front of my tactical squad which had moved but still fired all weapons and killed 9 wyches on board and dealt 1 wound to the haemonculus, who was then dispatched by a snap fired krak missile, priceless

overall I'd say a lot of rules will be harder to make into abusive lists and dont cater to certain very powerful builds but rather tones down some extremities and makes the game more fun imo

[Brother Wolf]

Alas, 11Aug is probably the soonest I'll get to play 6th ed for the first time, but I'm looking forward to it. It'll probably be my Tau that takes to the table vs DesertFoxx's Salamanders. One thing I'll note while everyone is chattering about the core rule changes are the overall changes to how Building & Ruins are used. Building's especially, with he new rules for transport capacity, shooting in/out and assaulting, building are a very big change. Much for the better, as now I feel like we can have real buildings and not just ruins. The fact that multiple units can fight over the Fortress of Redemption, (it is a 4 part building), is just very cool and it certainly make me want to get off my butt and finish up some bridged buildings.

From what I have digested, I am VERY pleased with 6th ed. Sure, glancings can now take down vehicles, but not having to leave a squadron-mate behind until it's totally toast is going to make those Leman Russ squadrons just plain MEAN.

[OhJohnNo]

You know, it strikes me that the Allies rules do a great job of making older codices like the Tau one stay relevant until their new editions. They were getting progressively weaker against newer codices, but being able to cherry-pick some of the better units out of them and use them alongside your main, newer army is a sort of symbiotic relationship that works well.

[SilverTabby]

Me, I'm going to use the Allies system to make an army I've wanted to do for ages, and won't win any battles but will be awesome fluff-wise.

My Sisters Penitent army will be getting enough actual penitent units to make it a viable theme! Coteaz (renamed, remodelled and refluffed) will be leading in an additional two arcoflagellant units, and a jump-pack equipped Penitent Engine for mass death (mostly on my part) and giggles...

[adeptus]

on a similar level to SilverTabby, a smller core of CSM and IG allies allows for some awesome Lost and the Damned recreation

[Brother Wolf]

I think there is plenty of room to both break the game and have uber fluff! To those who want to break the game, (recent example from another blog was a typical Tau army w/ Deathwing termies as troops folding in for allied objective taking), that's their business.

But for those who just want some flavor, it's an amazing opportunity. My Steel legion troopers standing alongside their Black Templar or Salamanders allies at the battle for 'insert name'-hive! My Goff or Evil Sunz Orks being guided by the deft hand of fate via some Eldar intervention. Tau w/ far better values Gue'la allies, fresh from their defection from the Imperium. Emperor's Children once again marching to war with Daemonettes cavorting alongside. And of course, much like tabby is planning, the Sisters striding to war as either main cohort or allies alongside fellow heroes of the Imperium. The modelling choices are endless. Doing Allied objectives alone is worth the price of admission, (a Salamanders apothecary cradling the broken form of an allied Commissar is once I've wanted to do for ages).

Yes, GW wants us to buy more models. Yes, they have given us the capacity to 'legally' take more than one army in a standard game and even more than one FOC in a 2k+ game, (finally, I can legitimately play Shrike & Khan in a 3k game with 2 detachments as my 'Hunt for Voldorius' project). Does that diminish the enjoyment we have for this hobby? Does is stifle our creativity? Certainly not, but being allowed to bring that creativity to the table on any given Sat is icing on the cake.

[Mantaray]

that this means to me. is now you can indoctrinate imperial guard again into my SoB army.
bolter bitches with tank support? armybook fixed. (except the non-scaling faith points)

[adeptus]

only thing is, competitive tournaments are gonna be a bitch now lol

[Fixer]

I get the feeling that tournaments will be filled with lots of Imperial guard allies. Especially Valkyries and Vendettas.
Or allies with things that can shoot down aircraft.

My two AC/Las preds have had trouble shooting down a single Dakkajet. AV12 is going to be a pain in the ass.

[OhJohnNo]

I also loved the way Grey Knights had not one single "Battle Brother" on the chart. Nice bit of fluff adherence there.

Yeah, the allies are definitely my favourite of the new rules. Perhaps the main motive from GW's end is money, but I say we shouldn't care - they benefit from more people buying more stuff, and we benefit from being able to create awesome new combined armies.

The possibilities with my Tau/BAs are endless. Endless.

[FerociousBeast]

Personally, I think the whole allies matrix should just go away and all armies have the opportunity to ally with any other army as "Allies of Convenience." The thin fluff justifications for the various tiers quickly break down when the tag team of Logic and Consistency step into the ring.

[OhJohnNo]

Probably with a provision "Tyranids hate everything, can't take allies"

[RexOmniaLupus]

I like the allies chart, and there are even a few decent bits of fluff that come through if you know what you're looking for (like the Dark Angels/Space Wolves rivalry.) That the Space Marines have a stronger alliance with the filthy Tau xenos than to some other Imperial factions is a bit weird, but it mostly adheres to fluff so I think they did a good job overall.

[Fixer]

I think the Allies table will be great for friendly matches. I can field my Lion Guard AND my Salamanders. Epic mayhem to follow.

Tournaments? I expect we're going to see a ban on allied forces. There's just too many powerful combinations to list. Biggest one I've seen so far is the Harlequin/Farseer/Dark Eldar combination. 2+ rerollable shadowfield save with a 2+ 'look out sir' roll. Decent positioning and your unit is untouchable.
Eldar alliances may be common too.
One farseer on a bike with a small squad of jetbikes. Runes of Warding. That'll shut down any psychic powers on the board. Especially now there's no invulnerable saves against perils and that now the only decent anti-psyker comes from Runic Weapons or said runes of warding.

We probably haven't really scratched the surface yet. It'll take a couple of months before people get the really broken combinations.

Every tournament is going to suffer from that. I play at a mix of hardcore and friendly competitions and even with the more fluffy based tournaments you'll see hardcore WAAC armies turning up. There's a lot of forces that will almost certainly curbstomp a single codex army or the possibility for games which end up as a overly complicated game of rock/paper/scissors.

Could be doomsaying here but as a tournament player I think we're going to need an official Adepticon style rules pack or competitive play of any kind is going to rapidly become pointless.

[Elerium]

Don't forget though, the Grey Knights have a lot of Psyker killing weapons that are often shafted because they may fight armies that aren't Psyker reliant..

Then there's the DA Librarian Psychic Hood that effectively has a chance to nullify all Psyker powers across the entire board as well.

[Fixer]

Afraid not.

Psychic hood is specifically mentioned in the DA FAQ to be the new wargear ruling in the BRB http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_..._6th_Ed_V1.pdf

The way they work now is by giving you a bonus to your 'abhor the witch' saving throw. If you're within 6" of an affected unit. Usually a 5+ in total.
So, you only get a 1/3 chance to save against powers which damage you and can cannot prevent enemy casting self buff powers like fortune or guide.
Compared to a runic weapon which can cut out all psychic powers with a 50/50 chance within 24" and the Runes of Warding that have an even better chance to stop you and a 50/50 chance of melting your brain.

It's Rune Priest or Farseer if you want effect scary psychic defence.

Also I've generally found GK anti psyker abilities to be more like the icing on a cake filled with DAMN that's awesome. They're nice to have but the army is already massively capable

[Elerium]

Ah well, I guess it makes some sense for the Elfdar to have the best anti-psykerism tools at hand, after all they've been around long enough to face things that mankind still has trouble comprehending.

By the way, do the Allies restrictions prevent the taking of special characters as I've been hearing or is this just a bogus rumour?

[Fixer]

Nothing I know of.

In fact the rulebook FAQs have been updated with rules clearing up things for allied forces. (Vulkan cannot twin link an ally's meltaguns for example)

[Faek]

I'm not quite sure how the Rune Priest does psychic defence but then i was casting Buff's on my units the entire game so i'm not sure.

Eldar Farseers are however excellent as you said at psychic defence. In a 2000 point game i can easily take two farseers with Runes of Warding which due to a (very stupid in my opinion) change in the FAQ makes enemy psychic test 4D6.
Farseers are also one of the psykers most likely to get their ability "off". If Runes of Witnessing is taken you roll on 3D6 (and discard the highest) which is virtually impossible to fail. Rolling Double Ones is however quite possible this way. The inclusion of a warlock in the Farseer's squad however allows you to reroll pyschic/leadership tests (for a small price) which would making a Perils of the Warp even more unlikely. And in said unlikely occurance Farseer's have a 3+ save for Perils of the Warp (the only save for Perils in the game at the moment i believe.)

All that sums up means that the Farseer is great at defensive psychic stuff.

[RexOmniaLupus]

I don't have an Eldar Codex available at the moment, but I would guess that the wording of Runes of Warding makes all enemy Psychic tests on 3d6. So if you're not Battle Brothers with Eldar (i.e. Tau and Dark Eldar, who have no Pyskers), bringing Farseers is going to make your own Psykers unusable as well since Allies of Convenience and Desperate Allies count as enemies you can't target. Plus you do have to take an Eldar Troops unit, not just a Farseer. All in all it's not going to be super cheap if all you want is some extra Psychic defense. For some armies I'm sure it will be valuable, but there are definite drawbacks to making alliances so we probably won't see a certain alliance jammed in every list. Only time will tell if certain combinations prove broken. If any are, it will probably be some Battle Brother combination that lets Independent Characters hang out with squads they shouldn't have, or some Psychic power or buff that affects cross-Codex units in an manner not forseen by designers. Allies of Convenience is really more like playing two separate, smaller armies at the same time, so any brokenness there would be more on the strategic level, where one army can shore up the other's weaknesses.

[Ten Tigers]

Hi guys. I've been out of the loop for a while. Its been a busy ass summer... Does this mean 6th edition has been released or are people just playing with preview copies at their local GW stores?

[ph03nIXx]

@TT

Yes, 6th is out since June 30th. Have been trying to get through the book ever since - don't have the time though with work and all that...

[Faek]

Indeed the codex does say that Rex. The FAQ changes it to "All enemy psykers must roll an extra dice when taking Psychic tests suffering Perils of the Warp on any roll of 12 or above." You're though about the allies. I hadn't considered the effect it could have on allied factions psykers but all that really means is that you take them with an army that isn't planning to use psychic powers, e.g. Some guard, tau, DE, Some SM, etc.

The cheapest Eldar troop selection works out to 60 points. That's 5 dire avengers which is kinda useless so I think manning up and taking a farseer on a jet bike with Jetbike guardians would probably be more effective. That would probably top out at about 250 points for a reasonable number of jetbikes. If I could get my hands on more jetbikes I'd give it a try myself