Computer Science vs. Computer Engineering

[Vintage]

I'm starting university in the fall and it's time for me to choose a major. Two of the hundred things I was thinking of going for are either CS or CE, but after speaking with advisors for both I couldn't really get a strong grasp of which route to take. Both advisors were pretty vague and basically said CS is all programming, CE is programming and hardware. They also said that students of CS and CE typically land the same jobs after obtaining a degree. This isn't really enough information to make a solid choice on which discipline to study for the next 2 to 2.5 years.

I was wondering if anyone here has obtained or is working on a degree in either of these fields, or is knowledgeable about them. If you are, why did you choose one over the other? If you've already finished, what kind of employment have you had since you graduated? Before you chose, did you find yourself in the same position I'm in? If so how did you wind up choosing one over the other?

[Starblade]

Computer Science is coding and theory, Computer Engineering involves circuitry and more hardware, as far as I know. My CS program had bits of CE in it. As a Computer Scientist, I've been hired to work as a "consultant" on financial systems, debugging and fixing errors and adding new features to existing code. I work solely with and around programming languages, databases, and code. Computer science also deals with algorithmic analysis and formal language theory, of which I remember close to nothing.

[Mac_Bug]

be a CE, get a ring

[roflmao]

Problem with CS is that software changes so rapidly that I don't think it adequately prepares you for the job. The theory is very good and essential for proper coding (you don't want to end up in thedailywtf, now do you), but if you do go the route of CS don't expect to be able to just land a job without having to learn some technologies you are not familiar with.

[Starblade]

Problem with CS is that software changes so rapidly that I don't think it adequately prepares you for the job.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this.

If you go CS, don't expect a job without experience and projects already under your belt. Take any paid internship thrown your way (avoid the unpaid ones unless you're truly desperate).

[Rotlung]

I've always accepted that computer engineering is something like a mix between computer science and electrical/electronic engineering. CS is pretty much focused on software, programming, algorithms (you will do a lot of that) and generally higher level programming (C/C++, Java, etc). CE on the other hand will have you handle a fair amount of programming even at the higher level (less than CS), but you will also need to have a firm understanding on computer architecture (memory, bus sizes, some ICs, RAM/ROM, etc) and lower level programming languages (like assembly). Some circuit theory will usually be required as well (not sure if you need to work with transistors at the theory level, but at the very least you should expect to have to deal with logic gates, you know, the AND/OR/NOT thing). There isn't as much a focus on developing efficient algorithms for higher level functions like sorting data in CE, whereas CS will have a lot of that.

I hope that provides a little detail on the differences between the 2. I can't provide any advice on the job part though, sorry!

[roflmao]

@Starblade: Well I'm kind of generalizing based on my own personal experiences, I'll admit.

Depends on what branch of you get into really. Some areas don't move as much, others are moving at the speed of light. Obviously web is the area where things are changing at 120mph, but I guess other areas that stick to C and other base languages stay relatively the same. I don't see DB technologies moving that fast for example so if you specialize in that you won't have a hard time keeping up with the times.

e.g. Most CS degrees will give you Java knowledge. I have yet to see one that will give you the Struts, Hibernate, jBoss and Spring knowledge you need to make a serious web application in Java. Sure, those are just frameworks/libraries and not really languages, not exactly hard reading material, but you won't get hired without that knowledge.

[Starblade]

Depends on what branch of you get into really. Some areas don't move as much, others are moving at the speed of light. Obviously web is the area where things are changing at 120mph, but I guess other areas that stick to C and other base languages stay relatively the same. I don't see DB technologies moving that fast for example so if you specialize in that you won't have a hard time keeping up with the times.

Oh right, I wasn't thinking about web development. I work in C++ and SQL, mostly. I also know some assembly, PROLOG and VB, but it's been years since I've used them.

Most CS degrees will give you Java knowledge.

This and C#. From what I've been told, my university is starting to phase out C++ for them entirely. At the time I only had one class worth of Java and a semester for web development (guess how little you learn from a language a week), but I was caught in between a pretty big restructuring of the curriculum. As a result I am not that great at web stuff, though I know a tiny bit of html and xml.

e: \/\/\/ This is a good point. CS is a damn big field.

[roflmao]

Yeah, sorry. I just instinctively juxtaposed my own personal experience before realizing my job experience is just a narrow field of CS in general.

But haven't you heard of noSQL?!? lololololololol.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Inquisitor Lok]

I've always accepted that computer engineering is something like a mix between computer science and electrical/electronic engineering.

Computer Engineering is pretty much this. I know a few people doing CE at my school and they take a number of circuitry and various programming/ algorithm based courses. Where as my brother (who just started a CS degree last year) is pretty much focused only on the programming side of things.

As for which to pick, im pretty biased and would say go the engineering route (just because engineering is awesomely fun - if you dont mind putting in some hard work in the 3rd and (presumably) 4th years that is xD) however, i know very little of which degree would actually help you in life more (So i wouldnt take my advice to heart :P - all ive heard from my bro is that its a highly competitive field)

[Starfisher]

This will depend heavily on where you go. I was a CS major at Rochester Institute of Technology, and I had to take circuits, assembly and hardware architecture classes. The CE guys had to take a lot of my classes.

Computer Science, in theory, focuses on theory. Lots of stuff about the theory of computing, the math involved, algorithms and whatnot. You can translate those into any specific language later on. If you're looking to take a more vocational approach, they have Software Engineering majors, which focus much more heavily on projects and solving specific tasks with programming languages.

In the end, the chances of you graduating with a good grasp of the language and technologies needed at your future job is close to zero no matter WHAT major you choose. It will be up to you to take electives that broaden your experience and work on the side in whatever the buzzword technology is in the field you're looking to get into. Get internships and work experience even if it takes blood sacrifice.

I don't know what it's like now, but when I graduated, a Masters in CS was equivalent to a year of experience to employers. In other words, it was totally worthless if you had a year of solid internship under your belt. RIT had a good program where you had to have a year of internships to graduate anyway (you were expected to skip a quarter or two of school to accomplish this) so I waltzed out into the workforce with lots of experience to flaunt on my resume.

I now work with another guy who graduated around the same time with a CE degree. We are doing the exact same job. I work at a company which makes electronic test equipment, so an engineering background will look good on the resume, but for the work I'm doing it's barely necessary.

edit:

Oh, and no matter what you do, spend some time at school learning how to learn and design experiments. Take a philosophy course or two, read on the side, whatever. When you pop out of school exactly equivalent to every other CS major mostly ignorant of the technology being used in a industry, your ability to quickly adapt to and understand a company's particular mix of languages and technologies is what will make you a valuable college hire. If I'm interviewing an intern or college grad, I almost don't care what languages they've programmed in or what projects they've completed, since none of that is relevant to what we do. I want to see some evidence that they are capable of rational thought and can learn quickly, because that's what will determine if they're useful in the long run.

[Vintage]

Thank you very much for your replies everyone. Is it true then that if I study CS or CE I can still get hired for the same jobs? I have no intention of going for a masters either way.

@Starfisher and Starblade

What made you decide to choose CS over CE?

[Starblade]

What made you decide to choose CS over CE?

I had no choice. My university only offered CS, though there were some electives that would be right at home in CE. A few courses had to do with microprocessors and circuit design.

I have no intention of going for a masters either way.

I don't know about CE, but the general opinion I've ever heard about a master's in CS is "it's that thing you get when you can't find a job". I was about ready to hit up grad school before I found employment. Based on my job search, you can start at a somewhat higher position at higher pay than as a Bachelor, obviously. I've only got a BS myself. Also everyone who has said "nothing you learn will prepare you for your real job" is right. I learned a lot of cool and interesting stuff I will never, ever use.

[Starfisher]

Is it true then that if I study CS or CE I can still get hired for the same jobs?

Er, well, not every single job that will hire a CE will hire a CS and vice versa. Just most. I can think of one position in my division which would require CE and which CS would probably be at a disadvantage without strong EE background (firmware/hardware design sort of role). If you're asking which one will give you the most opportunity, there really isn't an answer. In four years who the hell knows which will have the stronger demand. It's a good bet that both will be strong degrees to hold, though.