Servers are populated!

[Arbit]

The steam sale helped out. I even got some seize ground games in on the Chaos Rising maps! Incredible.

[Akranadas]

Enjoy it before everyone gets bored!

[Kalimac]

Yes, there's a large amount of level 1-25 players right now, which is fun. Very easy to get games, even though I usually don't have much problems in that regard.

[Ramrod]

I'm at work, argh!

[FerociousBeast]

Yeah, I'm one of the newbs. I may stick with it a little longer, but man I get pounded hard in multiplayer. Plus I'm not sure I like the way the game feels. Feels too lurchy and chaotic, especially with the melee.

Anyway, I'm not sure if I just really suck (I don't, usually, in the other games I play), but I really can't make any headway in Space Marine multiplayer. I run around a little bit, spy some bad guy off in the distance, then if I don't kill him with my first two or three shots, I have to roll away quickly or his stalker puts me down ridiculously fast. Meanwhile, some Raptor or ASM jumps down on top of me and finishes me off.

I'm low level, and while I'm low level I'm finding it very hard to gain much XP each match. Nasty.

[Kalimac]

The multiplayer is unfortunately kind of hard against new players, as higher level players have both better perks and more experience.
But maybe I can help somewhat. What class and weapon/perk combination are you using the most, and what game mode do you prefer?

[Pseudonymn]

The multiplayer is unfortunately kind of hard against new players

This would be an understatement. The game has an assortment of instakill perk-weapon combos that really make starting fresh a lesson in frustration for new players.

[Gorb]

Meltagun, Lascannon . . . hrmm. Plasma Cannon Charged Shot (which was moderately nerfed a while back).

Thunderhammer/Daemon Maul? That said, that can be seen and dodged ten miles off unless you're sitting with your scope on and not thinking of Assaults/Raptors landing behind you.

That's all I can think of. Stalker Bolters takes at best two headshots to drop an Assault (the weakest of the classes, not sure how it stacks up against Impenetrable) and the dual-shot perk actually makes headshots harder.

I agree that it's hard on new players (and that we lack a comprehensive Tactica of sorts for new dolts), but I disagree that there are too many "instakill" attacks.

[Caeltos]

I love the multiplayer, but for the most part, the lag is just to darn frustrating

[FerociousBeast]

I haven't settled on a favorite class yet. I've been trying out the new weapons as I get them, mostly. The frustrating thing is that I'll get killed a bunch of times by stalkers, then I get the stalker myself and try it out and I'm like why doesn't it work for me?? Same with the power axe which i just got. Perks and weapon experience I guess.

Pretty disappointed with the game to be honest. I've waited a long time for it to be a low sale price (I didn't want to pay $50 or $30 for a game that got really mixed reviews), but now its finally arrived I'm finding a generally low player population and a game with kind of strange controls and handling. I'll probably be heading back to Mass Effect 3 soon.

[Pseudonymn]

I'm pretty sure I didn't say "too many" but rather an "assortment" of instakills, which you obliged by listing. And they are (were?) chosen with enough regularity to make encountering them virtually guaranteed. Hence, being a lowbie is a lesson in pain while you're someone's point fodder until you can earn the perks you need to either be in that position yourself or have a shot with counter-perks. And, no, picking up someone's kit is a poor, poor substitute.

In reply to the above, if I recall, the power axe was just about universally panned as a useless weapon having fallen somewhere between the chain sword and the hammer but not stacking up against either in a square fight, even with perks. Chainsword swings faster for better health regen and the hammer just hits harder (read: instakill for the unwary).

[Gorb]

I don't understand what is strange about the controls, Ferocious? What trouble are you having? As a PC user, I could rebind to my heart's wishes - you playing on the 360?

@Pseudo, I recall getting your killer's gear being a favourite feature over on the SM community forums (which were surprisingly active) and something quite a lot of people enjoyed considering the unforgiving nature of the game.

Even with that said, killing someone with a Bolter is perfectly doable (especially considering all the XP earned for assists, point capture and the like). And yes, the Power Axe (though aesthetically satisfying, imo) didn't compare to the other two main close combat weapons.

Finally, you didn't have to say "too much". You were hardly praising the "assortment", were you?

[FerociousBeast]

As for the controls, the key bindings are fine, but I find the POV just a hair off and the movement feels like slow skating somehow (definitely not like a 400 lb. warrior moving superhumanly fast). Those are quibbles though. My biggest problem is that I don't like how melee attacks make you lurch forward.

Not deal breakers, but could be better.

[Pseudonymn]

You might have me confused with someone else, Gorb. I never thought the kit retrieval thing worked particularly well considering the pace of the game combined with the fact that you only get the goods for one life. For lowbies especially, it doesn't afford much if any time to get to know the load out very well. Also, I wasn't aware that "assortment" connoted anything other than a collection of things. You perceive a disparagement where none exists; I was merely stating the facts, and I think you're still trying to paint lowbies who are new to the game as perfectly situated to deal with the increased threats that a perked out level 40 can bring to bear.

Stim packs alone tilt the balance in favor of the one who has them against the one who does not. The bolter alone is inadequate. Lowbies die disproportionately compared to those who have done nothing more than play the game for a greater length of time regardless of transferable skills from past gaming experience.

[Arbit]

There is no perk that makes a tac more durable so if you are losing a stalker v stalker duel, it's coming down to he's shooting your head better and faster. I dislike the double shot perk for the stalker; as Gorb says it makes head shots more difficult to pull off and it makes the screen bounce around too much.

A good starter setup is the stalker bolter plus tactical readout (displays health/shield bars over everyone's heads). Stay back and pick off the weak ones, and retreat when your opponent has a significant health edge over you. It also gives you a really good idea of how much damage weapons do. Once you are more comfortable and get an innate sense of how wounded someone is, take the fast respawn perk. It's great. Respawn at the front lines in about 4 seconds, vs waiting 4 seconds and having to jog for another 10+ to the front. If you're playing seize ground, don't worry about dying too much; it doesn't matter, and if you have to respawn once or twice to kill a guy capping one of your points then it's worth it. (yes, the fast respawn perk makes it so can spawn on a point in the process of getting decapped, so fast that the guy that killed you doesn't even get a chance to heal)

I don't remember when the weapons and perks unlock, but you can get the double weapon perk for stalker + melta fairly early on, which is a very solid all-around build. Given equal levels of skill, that should let you go toe-to-toe with level 41s. A HB dev can be pretty effective with just the iron halo or feel no pain perks but you will have to play very defensively to make sure you do not get caught running around in the open by, well, anything.

Capture the flag is a good one to play when just starting, because the spawn rate is very fast and the body count is high. You can farm xp by killing asm/raptor chumps that think they can just jump in and nab the flag unopposed.

edit: Ah, looks like at level 15 you can have everything you need - two perks, the two weapons perk, access to both melta and stalker, and access to one more perk of your choice. You can take anything for the second perk but Larraman's, fast respawn, and meganades are tops IMO.

[Kalimac]

I'd actually argue that the difficulty for new players is not so much perks and weapons as it is awareness and map knowledge. Learning to predict the movement and actions of the enemy is more often than not more crucial than having the better loadout. Sure, in close encounters with meltas (or any encounters with the Plasma Cannon) the gear and weapons of your own are important, but in a lot of other aspects of the game I'd say perhaps not so much.

General best tips for a new player would probably be that you're best off being on the move, constantly (I don't play Heavy Bolter, but I think the same thing applies even there). However, don't overextend into fights or locations where you have even the slightest feeling that you are inferior in numbers, unless you know you can handle it on your own. Retreating is often a necessity during games, so leaping head-forth into the battle isn't always recommended, although it does feel awesome (especially as Assault). When facing a Devastator, don't save your grenade. It's better to drop one at their feet, and lose one grenade, than not doing so and lose your life.

When playing Tac and facing an Assault, roll forward instead of backwards. When playing Assault, always use your ranged weapon (never use True Grit, it is awful) as much as you can before heading into melee. Aim for the head with the bolt pistol and see what happens.

Btw, I thought we had a thread on these kind of tips, but I didn't find any when I looked just now. May be wrong.

[Gorb]

As for the controls, the key bindings are fine, but I find the POV just a hair off and the movement feels like slow skating somehow (definitely not like a 400 lb. warrior moving superhumanly fast). Those are quibbles though. My biggest problem is that I don't like how melee attacks make you lurch forward.

Not deal breakers, but could be better.

Ah yes, the POV is something that apparently causes issues with a small portion of the playerbase. I can't remember why it was set to what it is, but I do remember that causing everything from minor irritation to actual headaches.

I like the movement with the melee attacks, personally. It means I don't literally have to stop to attack and it gives a sense of momentum behind this 400lb. juggernaught I am controlling. Heck, I love Space Marine precisely because I actually felt like a Space Marine. DoW II made me feel like I was commanding actual Space Marines (as supposed to the thousands of Astartes I killed or got killed in DoW I by Cultists, Imperial Guardsmen and the like ). It's something I think Relic finally managed to nail (prior to getting a tonne of staff laid off ).

You might have me confused with someone else, Gorb. I never thought the kit retrieval thing worked particularly well considering the pace of the game combined with the fact that you only get the goods for one life. For lowbies especially, it doesn't afford much if any time to get to know the load out very well. Also, I wasn't aware that "assortment" connoted anything other than a collection of things. You perceive a disparagement where none exists; I was merely stating the facts, and I think you're still trying to paint lowbies who are new to the game as perfectly situated to deal with the increased threats that a perked out level 40 can bring to bear.

Stim packs alone tilt the balance in favor of the one who has them against the one who does not. The bolter alone is inadequate. Lowbies die disproportionately compared to those who have done nothing more than play the game for a greater length of time regardless of transferable skills from past gaming experience.

My apologies, I don't think I worded my previous post well. I didn't mean to insinuate that you thought it worked well at all. I was trying to say that a lot of other people liked it.

And, no offense intended, but you have barely played MP. You have no real experience of weapon or Perk balance. You do not really have an understanding of what benefits gameplay and what doesn't. I will gladly bow before your game experience with regards to SP, but in terms of MP (given that I have played the game in total for longer than you have, I think) I feel (ego, ego) that I have a better knowledge base. Now I'm not telling you to roll over and play dead, I just want to make clear that I have played a helluva lot of MP.

It is perfectly easy to survive for quite a while on one life. From my experience with Seize Ground (less so with Annihilate or whatever the kill'em'all game mode is) what usually gets you killed quickly is trying to contest a point, or attacking a guarded point simply to disorientate the defenders. Tacticals have great mobility with their roll and Assaults, despite being the most fragile class in virtually every matchup, have the ubiquous jump/jump-dash (the latter of which I was finding more useful towards the end of my time playing the MP). Devastators have a harder time of dodging, but can simply look at your firepower and lay down twice as much in that time (with higher shields usually to boot).

Yes, you die a lot. Yes, you may not find the stealing your killer's loadout useful at first (good thing it's optional, eh?). But as you rapidly associate with your favoured weapons (remember that it's easy to gain levels up to about 20; I think I was up to 9 or 10 in a scant few hours back in the pre-release event I went to) you learn to use the killer's loadout option more effectively. This is me speaking from my own experience, naturally, but I think quite a few other dolts agree. Certainly, people agreed that it was a great equaliser considering the level-based progression of the MP game modes.

Addendum: with regards to "painting newbies", if you're good at shooting games, you're good at shooting games. If you're not a fan or can't get the hang of them, you tend to avoid them on principle (unless you really like the setting). All you need to get kills in Space Marine with the basic Bolter is situational awareness, basic knowledge of the game (attained by playing, what, the first level of the SP game?) and FPS experience (i.e. "this is how you control 3D movement and this is how you point and shoot. Seriously. The gf does not get it ).

[Arbit]

I'd actually argue that the difficulty for new players is not so much perks and weapons as it is awareness and map knowledge.

Totally agree with this. That's why I suggest tactical readout (awareness aid) and fast respawn (more time spend running around = more time getting to know the maps). Totally agree with your other tips, too.

The standard bolter is pretty ass-tastic though, you gotta admit, and a chainsword with lifeleech is just so much better than one without*. Giving noobs subpar equipment, plus the experience deficit (experience with the game, not XP) really makes them fight an uphill battle.

*In theory; I don't have this perk because I am a terrible ASM/raptor.

[Gorb]

Health steal on hit really helps the Chainsword if you're not good at repositioning yourself. Impenetrable and Air-cooled Thrusters is usually how I roll for maximum jump-dodge and to get the drop on those pesky Devastators. Air-cooled Thrusters I consider a default Perk that you should never, ever replace.

The standard Bolter is actually okay. It takes two clips to take out a Tactical, IIRC, which is not as great as the other weapons, but I think I'm also basing that on body shots/spray. You can also close with melee which as much as people complain about, is surprisingly good at 'locking on' to a target (the same thing the Chainsword excels at somehow but the Power Axe seemingly doesn't have). If you play with it enough and get Kraken Bolts, well . . . let's just say I saw a lot of level 41s with nothing but a Bolter and Kraken Bolts (and then MasterImbaCrafted Grenades and whatever the heck they wanted).

[Kalimac]

Swordsman's Zeal isn't that good once you learn to use your jetpack efficiently enough. I used to have Air-cooled Thrusters and Impenetrable, which worked fine, but to get that extra bit off attack bonus I changed the Air-cooled for Ground Pound instead. It was hard to adapt in the beginning, but now I can move just as fine without the air-cooled perk, just takes some getting used to.

Also, on my Stalker bolter loadout I use Larraman's Blessing plus Serrated pocket knife, to deal with assaults. I refuse to use weapon versatility as the Stalker + Melta combo is arguably the cheesiest build in the game, and the Stalker bolter perks aren't really necessary.

[Arbit]

What with the chainsword locking on, I don't really feel that bad about using stalker + melta. I've also had ASM stay at about midrange, hop around, and work me other with the bolt pistol.

Does the extra damage from serrated knife apply to the charge attack?

[Gorb]

Don't think so.

However, Stimulant WhateverItsCalled, Furious Charge and shoulder charge one-hit KOs a Tactical from full. Such a shame you're made of paper with that build though

[Pseudonymn]

You know, I get the feeling that you must think I believe the perks make the game impossible to get a head up in. As it is, I played just enough to get into at least the low L30's despite my handicaps and despite my preference for SP overall (simply because it played smoother, if more boringly). I think I've made it clear in the past that the game is in fact enjoyable, or at least it would be if it fricking worked for me properly.

Simply put, I've been around the block with this game and I've been playing FPS games, both on and offline since like, oh, I dunno, Wolf3D so please don't patronize me. I believe I'm qualified and indeed have some idea about what's going with the game and all I'm saying is that the perks make it "more difficult (frustrating)" for the lowbies. Not "impossible". Simply. More. Difficult (frustrating). In particular, more difficult (frustrating) than it needs to be. I mean, here we are with a game that all but fell off the Steam usage stats page until just recently for want of players (I wish to hell I had taken that screen shot like I thought to do when I checked it last), and people in this very thread who've said they're having their assmeat handed to them by players with gear that they do not have access to. And yet we're still arguing about a mechanic that makes it that much more difficult for these people to get into it, frustrates them, and quite possibly further damages the longevity of this game. Should we not be looking at this from their point of view rather than those of us who already have the uber perks? You do want this game to attract and keep more players, don't you? I'm not saying it's the factor for people quitting, but surely it's a contributing factor for some.

I don't know why it is, but it seems as though people just simply refuse to acknowledge that by adding buffs to vanilla kits through use of perks, making those kits a greater threat on the battlefield over and above any acquired situational awareness, that game can and is perceived as more frustrating for lowbies. Telling them to suck it up doesn't promote the game's longevity very well when the system is set up to be inherently unfair, intentionally or not. You just didn't have that sort of advantage over other players in the past, the perks and their accompanying buffs I mean. Everyone had access to the exact same equipment right off the bat. The only thing separated you from the other guy was raw talent and experience with the map/game you were playing.

I honestly don't know if this is a product of the modern FPS games that have fed their audiences a diet of cover-based shooters like CoD where perks have become mainstream and where, as Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw puts it over at Zero Punctuation, health is regenerated by munching, "On some nourishing gravel until it all grows back (03:20)," or if it's just, to borrow a word, people's egos getting in the way of acknowledging that perks give definite advantages to those who have them over those who do not.

A buff is a buff. Either you have it or you don't. Either you have that advantage in your pocket or you don't. And in a square fight against someone of equal skill who does, the one who doesn't has an uphill battle ahead of him, is likely to die disproportionately to his opponent for the amount of effort invested and will experience elevated levels of frustration, which in turn increases the odds that he'll just give up and quit a whole lot sooner. If even one person quit playing the game over this, that's one less person contributing to the P2P pool that runs this game.

I've never understood why people defend so vehemently a system that chases people away from a game that desperately needs to keep as many players in the game, playing the game, as it can. Ask yourselves what it is you want out of this game and tell me if buffing high level players with always-on, always-available Quad Damage runes (lolHammer + Killing Blow) is still a good idea.

There is no perk that makes a tac more durable

lolwut?
Combat Stimulants (Level 9)
Master-Crafted Wargear (Level 19)
Larraman's Blessing (Level 25)

[Edit] I see posts where people are basically making my point for me.

Air-cooled Thrusters I consider a default Perk that you should never, ever replace

So not having it is a bad thing, right? Too bad it's only available after Level 31, I guess.

a chainsword with lifeleech is just so much better than one without*. Giving noobs subpar equipment, plus the experience deficit (experience with the game, not XP) really makes them fight an uphill battle.

Why's he allowed to say this and I'm not?

[Arbit]

lolwut?
Combat Stimulants (Level 9)
Master-Crafted Wargear (Level 19)
Larraman's Blessing (Level 25)

[Edit] I see posts where people are basically making my point for me.

Yes, none of those things are really going to help. Stims last, what, 5 seconds or something? And as soon as I see that icon over your head I go for cover and you wasted your stims, if I didn't already blow your head off while you were busy shooting up. Larraman's gets you back into the fight faster, it doesn't give you more health. It's two tacs, both with the same amount of health/shields, both with the same weapon - it almost inevitably ends up with one tac dead or rolling for cover, regardless of what perks you have.

Regarding your other stuff, I don't think anyone denies being higher level confers an advantage, just that it's not a huge deal. The playing field levels out pretty fast (around lvl 15 when you get two perks) and you can play in ways to limit the advantages a higher level player has. I think the stalker bolter is a pretty good equalizer, as is the melta.

Most importantly, if you like the game, then you'll find a way to deal with it. I think this XP leveling crap is bullshit too but it can't be denied that filling up bars and leveling stuff is a powerful incentive to get people to play games. Even if that lowbie is getting trashed, he's still picking up XP here and there for team wins, capping points, getting assists, etc. and he feels like he's making progress. The pot o geneseed at the end of the space rainbow is one day he'll have tricked out shit, too.

That's how it's supposed to work in theory, anyway. I'd rather do away with it but I'm not going to let it stop me from enjoying a good game, either.

[Gorb]

Pseudo, the passive-aggressiveness is beginning to get to me. I have been nothing but polite and apologetic where necessary, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't crow about playing FPS games since Pong when I claim your experience of SM MP is sub-par. It's like crowing about your prowess of SC: BW and then wondering why DoW I has different units with different damage values and what the heck are LPs?

1. I never said or implied "impossible". Nor did I disagree that it was an uphill struggle. My original point was geared around insta-kill weaponry. My second point was geared around staying alive in a single life, thus maximising efficiency of the killer's loadout mechanic. I haven't really made a third point beyond casually debating game balance and beneficial strategies.

Please, at least read my posts before accusing me of letting other people post what I'm apparently not letting you post.

2. Actually I came into the game a week or so later than everyone else due to delivery issues with my game copy. After finishing the SP (bearing in mind I don't actually play much games anymore, final year and now into jobseeking - certainly, I know others have these restraints but I'm comparing myself to the people that were level 40 in five days ) this did actually put me at a level disadvantage in MP. I played games with my friends, absolutely whored the Stalker Bolter (til I unlocked decent Assault perks and also the Tac's Meltagun; I think I had to unlock that IIRC?) until I (roughly) caught up.

The level difference can be overcome if you have moderate aptitude at FPS games. Yes it isn't a level footing. Yes it isn't ideal. Yes it punishes those who are unfamiliar with the FPS market moreso than those who aren't, but I am honestly surprised that Pseudonym, the man who famously complains about the "dumbing down" of DoW II, is complaining that Space Marine MP places your skill at the forefront of your playing ability (barring a few issues like the Plasma Cannon and whatnot, but the balance patch largely fixed the issues players had with MP balance).

I wish you looked at DoW II with the same forgiving eye you are giving SM's difficulty curve, honestly.

3. SM's health system is moderately different from the mainstream CoD (and different from even Halo and the like due to the regenerating health which helps keep the combat fast-paced, rewards a higher skill ceiling and also makes death hit harder - unlike in GoW, where the regeneration mechanic is much more obvious due to the reliance on ranged weaponry (no Assault Marines to wreck you when you're hiding in a corner, for shame)), so I'm unsure of what you're getting at with the Yahtzee reference.

If you think Killing Blow is such a massively overpowered weapon and Perk combination, perhaps try using it in MP and see how well you do. You'll find it doesn't actually match up favourably to various other classes, and that as soon as you get a single kill with it people will roll up with Meltaguns and anti-Assault Devastator builds until your pesky little thrusters crash and burn. I know this from experience, both as and against Assault players (didn't quite get the Devastator build right, but I got my anti-Assault Tactical play down to a tee).

This just shows how much you don't know about SM MP, at least at a decent/high level of skill. I'm sorry if this hurts you in some way and I am not being patronising. I am telling you that you don't know as much about the game as you think you do. Killing Blow is, on paper, horrendously strong. In actuality . . . it's moderately strong, but is also something of a one-trick pony.

EDIT@Arbit: Larraman's has been a lot better (especially in Exterminatus) since it received a decent buff in the balance patch a while back.

That said, you're underselling Combat Stimulants. Higher damage, less damage received. As an Assault player you can activate it in mid-air (what was worse for ASM players was that the buff icon didn't pop up - however coldplay confirmed that the buff was still in effect, the icon not appearing was a complex UI issue - if you know that now, you have an edge on your opponent who won't know you're on da good stuff).

I had started to find it more reliable than grenades since the grenade nerf (that also nerfed Master-Crafted, but I'm not sure they hit the right nerf buttons there. Ah well, the net effect was achieved) though Blind Grenades still have their use on some maps.

Also, Devastators with Iron Halo and Combat Stimulants are a monster to kill, especially as an assault (/downright impossible without Killing Blow if they have a Stomp Perk of some kind, or perhaps Reactive Armour).

[FerociousBeast]

There is no perk that makes a tac more durable so if you are losing a stalker v stalker duel, it's coming down to he's shooting your head better and faster. I dislike the double shot perk for the stalker; as Gorb says it makes head shots more difficult to pull off and it makes the screen bounce around too much.

Oh, there's no doubt about that. I find it difficult to get headshots in this game. Maybe cuz I've not acclimatized to the small heads on the Space Marines? *shrug*

I played a little bit last night and got up to level 12, I think, and just unlocked the meltagun and kraken bolts. I did a little better than before, but still only averaged about 5 kills a match. I made sure to play seize ground, though, so i could get XP by capping.

Hopefully with the melta things will start going better. I really hate getting one shotted by those things. Aggravating.

[uncle_anaesthesia]

melta and serrated blade go really well together.
if you want to get high kill counts go as dev and back up another player, team work is very effective. iron halo feel no pain never looses to assaults unless they have the one shot hammer. i find shooting their nads in close quarter very effective

[Goko]

As to people that have s POV problem like me heres a nice little fix

https://www.widescreenfixer.org/

It's called widescreenfixer and is brillant. It pretty much nails that headache i get from close pov's out the park but ever giving you the choice to set your pov or setting it to a reasonable 90frames depending on how much time they spend on it. Just download it run it in the background and Bingo POV problem solved .

Now back to the brawl!!!

[Cyke]

I couldn't play this game due to having an old computer, but I just got a brand spanking new system last month, and awesome luck, the Steam sale was right on time. Bought the game and every DLC cos I'm a huge 40k nerd, and I figure Relic/THQ could use the $ badly, too.

Tore through the campaign (which is a 40k wet dream tbh, the Astartes here are as powerful as in the novel fluff) and hit multi.

I'm from Asia, and when I played it at my friend's place back in December there were more Asian players (four green latency bars was common).
Now I'm always just getting one red bar, and there's a lack of games particularly on the DLC game modes, but screw that, I'm having a blast (even if it's because the latency handling is written to overcompensate and advantage lagged out players too much, as has been stated).

Got a lucky 10 kill streak with the default Devastator config (armed with a Heavy Bolter), still trying to figure out the right combination of regular/heavy melee attacks to kill people in a fair fight with Assault. Copied someone's loadout with a Thunder Hammer and the Perk that kills in one hit, that thing is awesome for knocking out planted Devastators, still learning as I go.

Wish I'd upgraded my hardware and gotten the game ten months ago back when there were more players in Asia (and in general)!

I know THQ/Relic are not in good shape financially right now, but I think if they released dedicated server software and the development SDK and charged ten bucks for it, folks would buy it (I would). Dedicated servers and the option to run server-side custom mods would help revive the playerbase, charging for it ought to give Relic a little cash injection, and a revived playerbase means they can milk us with more DLCs. I'd pay for more of this shit.

[Pseudonymn]

charging for [dedicated servers] ought to give Relic a little cash injection, and a revived playerbase means they can milk us with more DLCs

/Facepalm.

This is why modern games get shipped with "less" than their siblings did less under a decade ago. We collectively are all only too ready to roll over for Uncle Dev and the thing that seems lost on the wider community is the sense that we are not there to service them, rather the other way around.

[Cyke]

bb-b-b-bbut I have all this money, and I want them to have it..

[Gorb]

It's okay Cyke, I was waiting for Pseudonym to latch onto something else to rail at the world of games development for. I thought my last post had ended it, given that he hasn't replied

Unfortunately, with regards to buying dedicated server software and the like, I don't think that Relic have the personnel who can develop it (I'm not sure who worked on Space Marine with regards to those employees that were recently let go) nor will such a small return help THQ in any noticeable way.

That said, I'm glad you took the plunge and are trying to enjoy the game!

@Pseudo: games developers exist to make games. They don't have to roll over and acquiesce your every request, as long as they themselves are satisfied with the game they have shipped.

And actually, games could possibly be "shipped" with less because the games of yesteryear are glitchy, reliant on positioning and pathing abuse and generally extremely hard to explore (see Tomb Raider and Jedi Knight - both fantastic sets of games, imo, but some of the world-traversal elements required on basically squeezing out extremely pin-point moves from incredibly specific locations on a block of stone or wood). This makes the games hard to complete in general (particularly when levels are usually the same stuff reskinned - a major complaint of modern games, but there are very few old games with a truly new experience every time you load a new level), which means if you're on any form of time budget something will get annoying. If something gets annoying, you don't play it for pleasure. Playing a game should be a leisurely activity, not a torturous affair of finding out which surface incline you can and can't jump on (by a matter of degrees).

If that's what you want from a game, then fair enough, but that doesn't really match the word "play", or a "leisurely activity"

[Pseudonymn]

For a guy who's supposedly tired of my "passive aggressiveness", you sure seem to like picking fights with me. Are you sure you want to do this?

[OutriderVS9]

It means he likes you

This is why modern games get shipped with "less" than their siblings did less under a decade ago. We collectively are all only too ready to roll over for Uncle Dev and the thing that seems lost on the wider community is the sense that we are not there to service them, rather the other way around.

THIS is actually a really good point. The ONE thing that always throws me in a crazy loop of hate and rage with more than half of the online-capable games that I own are the terribad peer-to-peer matchmaking systems (Spess Mahreeen being one).

[Gorb]

For a guy who's supposedly tired of my "passive aggressiveness", you sure seem to like picking fights with me. Are you sure you want to do this?

You can debate constructively without being aggravating or aggressive, you know

[Slade_Templar]

Are you guys all on PC?

Maybe I should grab this on the steam sale, already level 41 on xbox; but I am pretty sure barely anyone plays on there anymore.

I think they should have done the 'unlocks' for new players differently, as I personally think its pretty harsh on new players; at least there is the copy loadout function I suppose.

[Zallis]

There was a small but solid player base even before the sale. If you played during mid day (in north american times, anyways) you could normally find a game fairly easily.

And I find the loadout stealing to be more detrimental to learnign the game than anything. I literally killed a guy 20 times because he kept stealing my loadout and coming after me but he had no real clue how the game worked. The end result was that when he couldn't steal me loadout, he'd take someone else's and have ot learn what was going on all over again. He'd keep switching between all sorts of roles and would never have the chance to figure out how to get good at one. It's a minor problem and goes away as you play more, but can be quite frustrating I imagine when you're first learning.

Also, if you like winning, try not to be the best player on your team. The match maker tries to balance teams by putting good players with a larger number of worse players, but the inevitable result is a good player with a bunch of retards fighting against a moderately good team. The match maker also decides how "good" you are based on score, so if you're off killing tons of people but never capturing points, then you'll be in for some incredible frustration if you want to win a match.

Also, keep in mind the most important aspect of seize ground is avoiding the points at all costs. That's why it's called seize ground, and not bury-your-head-in-the-sand-like-an-ostrich The ideal team consists of a bunch of lascannon devs and stalker tacs sitting outside spawn trying to snipe eachother. The occaisional assault should be thrown in just for you to laugh at as he futilely tries to capture a point (what a ridiculous notion) and gets shot to hell.

Finally, the pile of skulls beside someone's name on the matchmaking screen indicates that he's in a party with someone.

[FerociousBeast]

Good info, Zallis, thanks. Particularly the pile of skulls thing. I was wondering about that. I suppose partying up with someone ensures that you stay on the same team?

I'm not so sure about your seize ground strategy, though. I can usually quickly get into a corner and so avoid the sniping. Of course, then you're a ripe target for an ASM or grenade, which does happen, but more often than not if I can get in the corner I get the cap or at least the uncap.

I've stuck with the game, by the way, and am now level 22. Much easier! I've even topped the leaderboard a few times. The limited map rotation is annoying though. The game feels like a beta, or one that's waiting for a promised DLC... which I guess it is in my case since I haven't bought any of the ones out there due to all the negative reviews.

[Kalimac]

You can still get moved to the other team even if you are in a party with one or several friends, but it doesn't happen very often.

Also, the worst criminal in Seize Ground is neither lascannons nor stalker bolters, but the huge shitstorm that is the plasma cannon. Combine one (or heaven forbid a couple) of those and then maybe a vengeance launcher, plus a huge amount of assaults with frag grenades, and you have yourself a merry little party brain aneurysm over the most heavily contested point. See: Waste management.

[Gorb]

FerociousBeast, the DLC game modes are good. You definitely should've picked them up while they were 75% off, in my opinion.

The main critique is that they divide the playerbase, but if more variety is what you want, you should certainly get them (as I figure most active SM players would've picked up any and all DLC in the recent sale. I got myself Dreadnought Assault, at last, for one).

[FerociousBeast]

Well, the divided playerbase is what I meant. I read that it was really hard to get any value for the money since few others played those modes.

[Gorb]

It's funny when the main criticism of a DLC can be solved by getting people to play the DLC

If that puts you off, then so be it! However it was £1.62 per DLC during the 75% sale, which is far less than a pint of bad lager. Take the dive, in my opinion.

[Zallis]

I was only joking about the seize ground strategy. It just seems to be how everyone plays: avoid the point, bury your head in the sand so you can't be sniped, swear excessively when the other team wins, etc. As a general rule, "good" teams keep attacking even after they hold the majority of points. Keeping pressure on the enemy prevents them from retaking points quickly, barring ninja capping by assaults.

And yes, the matchmaker tries to put parties together as much as possible, but sometimes it isn't possible (like if you have a party of 8, but you're the only ones in the lobby, the game will split your team up). This generally happens when you try to join a match as a party, since the teams are filled by alternatively. The biggest party I've seen has been like 6 people.

And yeah, DLCs are kind of dead. On occaision, the game will switch to them despite everyone having chosen classic.

[Thorno]

You can always get a game of Dreadnought Assault. However, anything to do with Chaos unleashed is a rare treat. For me at least.

[Slade_Templar]

You can always get a game of Dreadnought Assault. However, anything to do with Chaos unleashed is a rare treat. For me at least.

Any of you have any idea of how Dreadnought assault is on xbox? Am I going to be able to find a game?

Played a bit yesterday, Classic Seize Ground isn't hard to find at least.

[Pseudonymn]

It's funny when the main criticism of a DLC can be solved by getting people to play the DLC

I find this rather disingenuous when in the first place the core game itself never had a sufficient player population to play the game online reliably anyways. Reliably in the sense that connection speeds are sub-par for the kind of game that it is; not in the sense that, yes, it does load up and you can join games in progress. Getting mileage out of a game is more than just being able to turn it on and shoot at a cluster of pixels and I don't feel that you've adequately acknowledged this by your comment. The truth is IMO, for most people, they probably would get better mileage out of even a half pint of cheap, bad lager.

[Gorb]

The core game had a perfectly serviceable population, however as the initial rush declined (see Steam achievements as a measure of how much of the game population made it past the first part of the Campaign, nevermind into MP) you started to see "lag" occur as less players spread more thinly led to host migration issues. People got fed up with these isolated incidents, in turn giving up, further exacerbating the problems that they were suffering from.

As for mileage, I believe your subjective opinion has already been noted on that particular subject. I was merely advocating what I thought a good use of less than 2 British Pounds Sterling was (as a drinker of decent tolerance and moderate tastes myself).

[Pseudonymn]

I still feel like you're attempting to obfuscate the viability of this game, in particular as it relates to its MP. The decline that you're talking about began after only a month(?) or so after retail release. Like the zombies in Dead Island, which I'm now enjoying quite a bit btw, Space Marine's MP scene lurched about until it finally succumbed and died as a result of its injuries. The only reason it registers on anyone's radar now, less than a year later, is because it was sold at 75% off. I have to admit, I was surprised to see 5000+ new players playing this game just after the sale, but without drastic and much needed improvements (discussed to great lengths elsewhere - none of which are likely to happen), the necromancy that brought this game back from the dead won't last any longer than it did before; indeed, shorter I predict if current usage trends are any indication.

Before purchasing this game or its accoutrements, people should be made aware of the facts. All of them.

[Gorb]

This thread (and others) demonstrates that the game is perfectly viable (given how small we are with respect to the rest of the Internet). Can you play MP these days? The only reason I (mistakenly) assumed earlier that you hadn't played much was due to your earlier (much earlier, in the early days of the game) complaints with regards to how unplayable MP was and how you could play that even less than you could play the broken SP (due to sound stuttering).

Additionally, the game is 75% off again, including all DLC.

But wait!

The Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine Pack contains everything for Space Marine, was released yesterday and has a sale price of £9.99 (80% off).

That means all of the DLC and the base game packaged together. You save £40 from the base price, and a coupla pounds from buying everything individually (as torturous as shoving those orders through Steam would be)!

[Pseudonymn]

I'd say that's just classic denial. And I'm not doing that debate all over again. Incidentally, I don't see how you can accuse me of being passive aggressive, rude and insulting, etc. when you let loose with gems like this, among others:

I was waiting for Pseudonym to latch onto something else to rail at the world of games development for. I thought my last post had ended it

The post referred to here was a wall of text for which I had no desire to formulate a response, not that it ended anything. I'm just tired of this little dance we do. I've said my piece and I really don't intend to debate you further on the matter.