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Higgs Boson particle discovery announced

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    Member Skullcap's Avatar
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    Higgs Boson particle discovery announced

    Well today is the day, 45year search for the particles which made the universe and the LHC has found pretty strong evidence the "God Particle" has been found, aka Higgs Boson.

    CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

    Geneva, 4 July 2012. At a seminar held at CERN1 today as a curtain raiser to the year’s major particle physics conference, ICHEP2012 in Melbourne, the ATLAS and CMS experiments presented their latest preliminary results in the search for the long sought Higgs particle. Both experiments observe a new particle in the mass region around 125-126 GeV.

    “We observe in our data clear signs of a new particle, at the level of 5 sigma, in the mass region around 126 GeV. The outstanding performance of the LHC and ATLAS and the huge efforts of many people have brought us to this exciting stage,” said ATLAS experiment spokesperson Fabiola Gianotti, “but a little more time is needed to prepare these results for publication.”

    "The results are preliminary but the 5 sigma signal at around 125 GeV we’re seeing is dramatic. This is indeed a new particle. We know it must be a boson and it’s the heaviest boson ever found,” said CMS experiment spokesperson Joe Incandela. “The implications are very significant and it is precisely for this reason that we must be extremely diligent in all of our studies and cross-checks."

    “It’s hard not to get excited by these results,” said CERN Research Director Sergio Bertolucci. “ We stated last year that in 2012 we would either find a new Higgs-like particle or exclude the existence of the Standard Model Higgs. With all the necessary caution, it looks to me that we are at a branching point: the observation of this new particle indicates the path for the future towards a more detailed understanding of what we’re seeing in the data.”

    The results presented today are labelled preliminary. They are based on data collected in 2011 and 2012, with the 2012 data still under analysis. Publication of the analyses shown today is expected around the end of July. A more complete picture of today’s observations will emerge later this year after the LHC provides the experiments with more data.

    The next step will be to determine the precise nature of the particle and its significance for our understanding of the universe. Are its properties as expected for the long-sought Higgs boson, the final missing ingredient in the Standard Model of particle physics? Or is it something more exotic? The Standard Model describes the fundamental particles from which we, and every visible thing in the universe, are made, and the forces acting between them. All the matter that we can see, however, appears to be no more than about 4% of the total. A more exotic version of the Higgs particle could be a bridge to understanding the 96% of the universe that remains obscure.

    “We have reached a milestone in our understanding of nature,” said CERN Director General Rolf Heuer. “The discovery of a particle consistent with the Higgs boson opens the way to more detailed studies, requiring larger statistics, which will pin down the new particle’s properties, and is likely to shed light on other mysteries of our universe.”

    Positive identification of the new particle’s characteristics will take considerable time and data. But whatever form the Higgs particle takes, our knowledge of the fundamental structure of matter is about to take a major step forward.
    http://press.web.cern.ch/press/Press.../PR17.12E.html

    So looks like a moment of scientific history has been made, not bad for a 45year search, can the scientists now discover how to do unlimited energy source and solve world problems >.>

  2. General Discussions Senior Member The Studio Senior Member  #2
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    If they can figure out how to manipulate the Higg's Boson's properties to alter mass, we could still be on track for hoverboards by 2015!
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    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
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    I always read it as the Higg's Bottom and I don't know why.

    More seriously, this is (as always) interesting news. For SCIENCE! However, I just hope it's not a false alarm akin to the previous report on the subject which was leaked early/prematurely or whatever and then debunked. Or that it's not some random particle imitating the Higgs (/'s?) Boson (or an overcomplicated scientific explanation involving two Higgs Boson particles orbiting each other like Romeo and Juliet or something).
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  5. General Discussions Senior Member The Studio Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #5
    Beware of Zombified Terrorists Langy's Avatar
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    Now they just need to find some way to exploit their knowledge of the Higgs Boson in order to do something cool.

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    If they have found the Higgs Boson that's already something cool.


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  7. #7
    If they can figure out how to manipulate the Higg's Boson's properties to alter mass, we could still be on track for hoverboards by 2015!
    I believe that's when all the teenagers would die in deadly 120 mph crashes into the ground, poles, cliffs, well anything.

    I'm hoping they can make new light weight, but tough material to make tanks planes and space ship out of. If that possible with the higgs.
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    Can't wait for my portal device shower curtain.

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    Member Carl's Avatar
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    p.s cool news
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  11. General Discussions Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member  #11
    I can baluga my lawnmower Belgarion's Avatar
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    Forgive me if this is simplistic but I just saw an explanation of what a Higgs field is and it strikes me as being very similar to the ether of old science
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    Man, I would just so punch people in the face who keep asking "how is this going to help ME????" If people are so against money being thrown to scientific discovery, maybe they should just go live in a cave. Fuck sake the world is full of these people! /irritated.

    I've been waiting for this news for ages though. If I'm right, Star Trek replicators by 2100!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Langy
    Now they just need to find some way to exploit their knowledge of the Higgs Boson in order to do something cool.
    Such an easy task .

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    White Knight Police Black's Avatar
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    Forgive me if this is simplistic but I just saw an explanation of what a Higgs field is and it strikes me as being very similar to the ether of old science
    The only similarities are that they both permeate all spacetime, like any field.

  15. #15
    This is the scientific version of finding the car keys, right?

    What are the likely outcomes of such a discovery? What are the benefits to mankind?

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    Member OhJohnNo's Avatar
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    Clearly, having found the scientific keys to the universe, we can at last control our own destiny!

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    So now what do we do with these hadron colliders?...

    I'm personally hoping for only the most epic of sandwich making experiments.
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    Why stop at sandwhiches, we can make super cooled beer with no ice in it. Not to mention Z.P.M's Because i would like 1 of those right about now.

  19. General Discussions Senior Member The Studio Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
    This is the scientific version of finding the car keys, right?

    What are the likely outcomes of such a discovery? What are the benefits to mankind?
    As far as I can tell... absolutely nothing, aside from the knowledge. If the Higgs Boson was actually useful for doing something, it would have made it much easier to discover.

    Something that's theoretically out there but extremely difficult to detect and/or prove is something that's not all that important on the grand scheme of things, because just that 'difficult to prove'-ness makes it generally useless at helping everyday life.

    Still, basic science is cool, and the confirmation of the Higgs boson gets us one step closer to truly understanding physics and the universe, which could lead to Cool Stuff in the future. But we'd need a lot more than just confirmation that something we were pretty sure was out there is actually out there before it'll impact everyday life.

  20. Child's Play Donor Gamers Lounge Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Homeworld Senior Member  #20
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    So now what do we do with these hadron colliders?...
    Smash Higgs Bosons together and see what happens.
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    Member Derivative's Avatar
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    Will people finally stop calling it the 'God particle' since it has nothing to do with the Almighty? That's what I'd like to know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg
    What are the likely outcomes of such a discovery? What are the benefits to mankind?
    "What use is a newborn baby?" - Ben Franklin
    Simply put, There's not a use for finding the boson yet. A discussion about it in detail can be found here.

    As for the hadron colliders, they can be repurposed into weapons of war! They're essentially giant ion cannons anyway.

  22. Child's Play Donor Gamers Lounge Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Homeworld Senior Member  #22
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    What are the benefits to mankind?
    Knowledge and understanding.

  23. #23
    Counts as Mephiston Fixer's Avatar
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    I figure the next use of the LHC would be dark energy experimentation. Trying to find the hidden parts of the universe.

    It'll make the cosmic accountants happy.

  24. General Discussions Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member  #24
    I can baluga my lawnmower Belgarion's Avatar
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    I was actually looking forward to there being no Higgs and the mad scramble for a new theory. Me and Stephen Hawkins would both lost

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    Member Skullcap's Avatar
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    What are the benefits? Hm, well in the text in my first post:
    All the matter that we can see, however, appears to be no more than about 4% of the total. A more exotic version of the Higgs particle could be a bridge to understanding the 96% of the universe that remains obscure.
    I think that pretty much sums up the benefits, understanding Higgs means understanding the rest of what made and makes things exist in the universe and matter in general, as outlandish as it may seem, things like star trek's replicators and other things we see in sci fi potentially can become a reality in years to come. Plus with better understanding means better theories are put together and hopefully spurs more scientific innovation and discovery.

    Ideally, from my point of view, I hope understanding and manipulation of higgs allows science to find unlimited energy and further find ways of making new materials which are resilent, yet light in weight so that eventually we can start actually making spacecraft which allows us to travel further into the solar system in less time and start tapping into resources in the solar system, the earth only has finite resources and room anyway.

    Its cool either way you look at it, with all the doom and gloom of economy and generally shittiness of the world be nice if there is a switch around and a sudden boom in all scientific fields from this discovery.

    Lets just hope this isn't like the faster than light particles goof up, more information will be available near end of the month anyway once they go through it all.

  26. General Discussions Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member  #26
    I can baluga my lawnmower Belgarion's Avatar
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    I think if we understood Higgs fields/particles the gravity and speed limits for particles with mass may be circumvented but that is just a wild dream

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    Member Lautaro's Avatar
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    @Belgarion:

    That sounds suspiciosly like Mass Effect...

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    NOT confirmed that it's the SM Higgs Bosun, but it *IS* a new bosun.

  29. General Discussions Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member  #29
    I can baluga my lawnmower Belgarion's Avatar
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    Yeah they are back peddling now and say it seems to be the Higgs like particle

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    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derivative View Post
    Will people finally stop calling it the 'God particle' since it has nothing to do with the Almighty? That's what I'd like to know.
    Anything that could potentially unlock the secrets behind the state of the Universe (and thus possibly reaching back into its history to look at its creation) involves approaching the territory of the Christian God (and probably more than a few others) as He made the firmament, the heavens, stars and everything beneath.

    I could be wrong, but I think discovering the Higgs Boson was related to unlocking the mysteries surrounding the creation of the Universe. The Christian God, in their biblical text(s), created the Universe. Therefore there is a parallel and given that a lot of scientists reconcile science and faith (of varying religions and denominations), it made sense to advertise (yes, advertise) the Higgs Boson as such.

    Just my 2 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer View Post
    I figure the next use of the LHC would be dark energy experimentation. Trying to find the hidden parts of the universe.

    It'll make the cosmic accountants happy.
    Read an interesting thing in New Scientist the other week (I don't regularly read actual magazines/publications, not since Focus as a high school kid, so I have no idea how verifiable its articles are, in case I made some kind of newbie mistake reading that publication) about how they're still discussing dark matter and whether it actually exists (apparently there's an alternate theory but it hasn't gained much traction due to being relatively new, IIRC).

    So yeah, this could be neat.

    Apparently neutrino detection is all the rage these days. Giant underground tanks of ultra-pure water (underground to avoid being thrown off by neutrinos from cosmic . . . rays? Can't remember the damn article properly) to capture the evidence of supernovae of far-off stars. I really should get into reading SCIENCE again, it's thoroughly fascinating and I enjoy how much of the basic science I actually remember.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberjumper
    NOT confirmed that it's the SM Higgs Bosun, but it *IS* a new bosun.
    A Higgs bosun orders the lesser particles around to keep the atom ship-shape.
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  32. General Discussions Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member  #32
    I can baluga my lawnmower Belgarion's Avatar
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    It was meant to be called "Goddamn particle" because it caused so many problems for quantum mechanics but an editor would not put it out as that so we got the "God" particle.

  33. Child's Play Donor Technical Help Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #33
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    Re: "God particle": Belgarion is partially right. The main reason, as stated by Leon Lederman, author of The God Particle: If the Universe Is the Answer, What Is the Question?, was that the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive, that I have given it a nickname ".

    NOT confirmed that it's the SM Higgs Bosun, but it *IS* a new bosun.
    The confidence interval is 5 sigmas for the 125GeV value.There's still data to analyze, but we should see a publication from this pretty soon. Officially the results are still preliminary, as this press release reminds us, but they're being very cautious. This probably is it.

  34. General Discussions Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member  #34
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    here is a nice explanation of what is going on http://www.collidingparticles.com/episode01.html

  35. #35
    I watch those 9 min episodes, and I know less now than what i knew before. I think i got knocked out with a knowledge black jack.

  36. #36
    Questions for those who know more than I do:

    Which of the effects of mass does the Higgs Field (and Higgs Boson) explain?

    1) Inertia
    2) Gravity

    I don't think those effects are the same, as the first influences all particles response to external applied forces, while the second is a force between everything.

    And, if the Higgs Boson doesn't explain gravity, is there still the disagreement between the Standard Model and General Relativity?

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    White Knight Police Black's Avatar
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    The Higgs field doesn't have anything to do with gravity except that it gives mass to certain particles. It is not even the largest contributor to mass that we know of. Baryons get most of their mass from the strong force, and we don't know what dark matter is. The most important thing is that the Higgs mechanism hopefully describes why the weak force is short-ranged (because it gives mass to W and Z bosons) while the electromagnetic force acts on all scales (because the photon is massless). This is a question because the standard model predicts that at high energies the weak and electromagnetic force are actually the same thing, so why the bosons have different properties at low energies is a big question.

  38. #38
    So for shear example here, you saying if we have two people running at high speeds, they will have the same motion, but at lower speeds each person motion differs.

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    White Knight Police Black's Avatar
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    What.

  40. #40
    Member MadCatChiken's Avatar
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    The most important thing is that the Higgs mechanism hopefully describes why the weak force is short-ranged (because it gives mass to W and Z bosons) while the electromagnetic force acts on all scales (because the photon is massless).
    Well aren't W and Z bosons rather heavy particles doesn't that account for the short range of them because they lose their energy much faster during interaction? (I haven't done particle physics in like 2 years and forgotten most of the concepts.. )
    Last edited by MadCatChiken; 7th Jul 12 at 11:56 AM.

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  41. Child's Play Donor Technical Help Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #41
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    To get a little better understanding of this whole thing it might be important to explain that part of particle physics where particles couple to fields etc, otherwise none of this makes sense to anyone.

    In high school or non-physics degree college physics you learn about a bunch of subatomic particles, starting with the ones that make up atoms. You have your neutrons, protons and electrons. Particles are represented as these tiny little balls. And you learn about forces, and the one that's most relevant here is the electromagnetic force, which happens to be one of the four fundamental forces. Each force has an associated "messenger particle" that, if you will, is used to "exchange information" between players acting upon each other with a certain force. In the case of EM, that particle would be the photon. If I'm an electron flying through an electromagnetic field, I will feel a force and react accordingly by speeding up, slowing down, or changing my direction. Me feeling that force is accomplished by means of messenger photons.

    So when they talk about the Higgs Boson coupling to the Higgs field, it's somewhat similar, except here you're talking about a field that acts kind of like molasses, and the particle is the messenger telling you that you're wading through said molasses.

  42. #42
    Just breakign waht you said down into very lame terms, two people running in high speed will have the same properties like the two particle in high energy then the at low speeds both people will have different properties?

    Also my high school physics was poor at best..

  43. #43
    Member MadCatChiken's Avatar
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    You can't compare two people to two particles as they're different things so no, first of all the particle might have a positive charge a negative one or none at all which is going to affect how it interacts with other particles. Going with what Moe was saying and going the EM field. Having a particle with a negative charge (ie an electron) would cause it to deflect away from the EM field (Positive) it's flying towards and the speed and mass of it can affect how much of that deflection occurs. Greater speed - greater force. If a person was to run into an EM field near the speed of light or at normal running speed, the effect is still going to be the same. (Nothing will really happen unless you negatively/positively charge yourself first) I hope I'm sort of right.. >.>

    PS. I was taught interactions, quarks, strong/weak nuclear force etc at A-level physics.. Just forgotten most of it.. :P In fact just read what Moe or Black say they're much more knowledgeable in the subject.. xD

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    Member Logic_Bomb's Avatar
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    This thread has been waiting for a good summary like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8xUd...layer_embedded
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  45. #45
    Member Skullcap's Avatar
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    Well a update from bbc website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19076355

    In a nutshell one of the teams working on the papers has moved the scale to 5.9 Sigmas(which meant it was a 1 in 3.5million chance it was a fluke result, but now the 0.9 increase in the Stigmas turns the chance of it being a fluke into 1 in 300million , meaning better chance it is the Higgs), they also found a few W bosons just chilling out to. More data needing to be compiled and so forth but they seem pretty upbeat about it so far.

  46. #46
    Does something like this give hope to us that wild science (space travel, teleportation, etc) is truly possible?
    Because the primary reason wild science is felt to be impossible is that we think we know the fundamentals of reality, and only fringe elements remain unknown.
    News like this reminds us that we know very little of reality. So just because we can't conceive of practical space travel with our current knowledge (practical or theoretical), doesn't mean it's not actually absurdly easy to those aliens who understand the "unknown unknowns."

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