DOW2 Activity drive

**Codex** · 4th Jul 12 10:16 AM

Summer Is Coming.

Okay, it's already here, for some people (ahem not UK). Now I know that this is probably more suited to the Gamer's Lounge, but since that is a rule mostly to avoid cluttering active forums, I think it's appropriate here.

SO. What I propose is that we make a community drive to enliven our DOW2 lives.

What with increased numbers online, it would be nice to take advantage of that and try to increase the longevity of this spike in numbers. DOW2 is a brutal scene to join up to as a noob, as are most RTS's. So what I think we should do is create groups of games with observers, both for rotational purposes and in order to teach those with less experience in the game. Rotation is great for making a group of players go further than just the couple of games that one member can do (or is willing to do).

Even though this is a community drive, bring your friends! Let observers in, be friendly, really try to give the community a fighting chance to not dwindle into the <1000 people that characterised June.

Post your steam ids here:

http://steamcommunity.com/id/helena

**Pocari** · 4th Jul 12 11:01 AM

And go hang on the http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ProjectL2P chat in case some nubs show up... the group kind of disintegrated after the layoff thingy but there might be people interested in that now.

**Codex** · 4th Jul 12 11:03 AM

Yeah l2p was great. I also want to stir up this community too, see if we can't get some regular dolt games going.

Barring being busy, I'm always willing to help.

**ph03nIXx** · 5th Jul 12 12:31 AM

I'd be in, 0rph and I tend to play less, but still regularly anyway - with work stuff, I'll only be around in the late evenings (CEST) though.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/pXDc

**Castigon** · 5th Jul 12 7:55 AM

It's very noble of you, guys, and I want to see DoW2 alive and kicking again too,
but right now it's really looks like this:
http://imageshack.us/f/515/prikol.jpg/
Without patches and bugfixes there's no hope I guess...

**Gorb** · 5th Jul 12 8:32 AM

No, with attitudes like yours there's no hope. It is perfectly feasible for players to keep a game alive through community efforts.

Good initiative Codex., I'd join but I can't play at the moment. Hopefully in the next month or two

**ThunderHost** · 5th Jul 12 8:53 AM

The hive mind approves and looks forward to more biomass for consumption

**Kalvera** · 5th Jul 12 11:53 AM

I'm rubbish but would love to join in some time!

http://steamcommunity.com/id/kalvera

**Aerozap** · 5th Jul 12 1:52 PM

Well, I can't promise that I have the willpower/energy to actually get back into playing DoW2, but I am willing to observe a few games from time to time. Codex or anyone, yell at me on Steam if you're putting a custom play-and-observe game together. I actually miss those quite a bit, even if I'm far outside the competitive sphere nowadays.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Aerozap

**Codex** · 5th Jul 12 2:20 PM

Aerozap, I didn't realise you still existed.

**Arbit** · 5th Jul 12 2:32 PM

I'm on and off with this game, but if you catch me online I can usually be coerced into playing some games.

I'm west coast USA and it seems like a lot of you are European/east coast USA so it's not a match made in heaven, but you can at least add me to pad out your friends list.

Link to me Steam profile

**Frigidair44** · 5th Jul 12 3:45 PM

Seems like with the recent sale on steam the population numbers went back up to the 2000's. It was 4000+ last Sunday, and right now in the middle of the day (California time) the population is close to 2500.

**Codex** · 5th Jul 12 4:07 PM

I know right! Amazing

**Demiurg** · 9th Jul 12 10:04 AM

Not sure if I'm suitable for helping out with this as I never got too high up the ladder, but glad to hear of the renewed numbers, I'll definately help boost them this week (UK based btw).

**Fenra** · 10th Jul 12 4:07 PM

Will be willing to jump in, feel free to invite to any matches coming up

I'll be on.

**Codex** · 10th Jul 12 4:13 PM

Hokay. So. I've got parents over, and graduation to deal with, but I'm going to try make pushes on weekends from now on. Look forward to seeing you guys!

**Pocari** · 15th Jul 12 4:06 AM

If you are looking for something DoW2-related to do, http://www.goodgameslive.com/ is casting GDF (Grim Dark Future) Cup 12 starting NAU. There will be a 2v2 cup next weekend, it seems (details best found on GR).

**Buguba** · 15th Jul 12 7:46 AM

Wasn't multiplayer effectively broken last patch?...

I wouldn't mind getting back into this game, but I'm looking over some of the most recent patch notes and... *shudder*

**Codex** · 15th Jul 12 8:08 AM

Well, Apo is pretty shitty outside of 1v1 due to how easy it is to focus fire him, and hormagaunt's speed can be a right pain in the arse in 1v1, but otherwise it's not really that broken. Any specific complaints?

**Gorb** · 15th Jul 12 8:28 AM

I was under the impression game balance was in a decent state, with a couple of outliers (IG, I think, through Catachans and bugged HWTs).

**Codex** · 15th Jul 12 8:57 AM

Oh yeah, bugged HWTs for sure, and Cats are a bit too strong right now. That said, they're hardly uncounterable. Unlike the other day where I was shown that in 1v1, 3 horms will basically own on most maps simply because of their 6.5 speed, and their combat utility out of the box. If they want to fight, they need to bring a bigger army, since hormagaunts are greatly reliable by themselves. However, if the opponent blobs and hence the battle becomes unfavourable for the nid, they can just disperse and cap the map. Vanilla horms are also decent at gen bashing.

Throw in a HT or a RA and you've got a nightmare on your hands.

**Castigon** · 15th Jul 12 10:19 AM

Duh... c'mon, Codex, you sound like game isn't broken, but you know better than most that it IS.
Grats with your graduation btw.

**ThunderHost** · 18th Jul 12 4:01 AM

I'm sorry, but there's been iterations of this game that were WAY more broken than this. If you wan't to see the faultiness in something, you will. I prefer to see an enjoyable game:-)

**Codex** · 18th Jul 12 5:27 AM

After I wrote a lengthy amount of strategy, I basically ended with

TL;DR: This patch is better than 90% of the patches that came before.

But, I wanted to address something.

3 shootas of course is very strong if you get them get the ball rolling. But then of course you could argue that Ork T3, or Eldar T2, or SM T2 is too strong if you don't push them when they're weak. Against shoota heavy builds you have to push early before they become strong. And yes I agree fully upgraded shootas are too strong right now. They don't lose much dps until they lose their big shoota members and the shoota nobz make them hard to force off or wipe. However, referencing 3 shootas clouds the issue. It's like saying, terminators are too strong right now, so 2 terminators are OP. Sure, it's far harder to get 2 terminators out than 3 shootas, but the principle is still there- you effectively have to allow 3 shootas to happen in order for them to roflstomp you before you get T2.

I gave a lot of strategy, including effective ways for all 6 races to nullify the FC. A heavy investment in AA and IH makes him nigh unkillable in the early game, but the FC's real strength lies in buffing and defending his troops using battlecry, and then using the buffed damage to trap or just attrition committed enemy troops. A tough to kill FC is all good and well, but his real strength lies in battlecry, which gets crowded out by iron halo. If the guy is buffing up on those kinds of wargear without getting any real damage on top, all he becomes in a money sink if the enemy loads up on stuns, slows and suppression.

A classic example of isolating the FC from his troops would be against Chaos. If you go ranged, the enemy should grab a havoc and then noise marines. If you get ASM, get the havoc anyway, and when the ASM jump in, the instant suppression from the havoc will prevent the FC from supporting his ASM, and hence the ASM get swallowed by a sea of heretics+ AC. No T1 wargear bar the stormshield will help with this, and thus IH and AA are pretty useless in this regard. You just end up delaying T2, which is where your goodies are at (and this is coming from an SM player who loves his heavy T1). This is why I find that the teleporter pack works better: forgetting for the moment the wargear's flexibility, it means he can be anywhere he needs to be on the battlefield, supporting and defending his troops with damage or battlecry at a moment's notice.

Even if with 3 wargears AA+ IH provides great durability for a damage platform, he still has to run into melee to do his damage. Another reason why I still go with AoA in T1 and then into teleporter pack, especially in 1v1, where map control is very much more important.

**Castigon** · 22nd Jul 12 2:01 PM

You know, ThunderHost, I just can't take DoW2 seriously anymore, I don't feel I play something
where I can compete others. Nearly every match I play end up in abusing some OP units/abilities
by me or enemy. Victrory comes if opponent just simply unaware, or somehow can't get his
fancy abuses on the field - this said for VERY rare even matchups, the other time its just most
primitive roflstomp with micro some newbie, or myself, where you can do nothing.
Point is - game's dead. Every time I enter, I see some things broken, and before patch (or other
games with same bugs but alive support) I keep in mind that its obviously will get fixed by the
time, in DoW2 it will never happen, so only thing is left for me (or others I suppose) is just
launch some matches (3v3 mostly) for lulz, without any desire to get better or learn game
more, because there is no sense left in it...

I gave a lot of strategy, including effective ways for all 6 races to nullify the FC

actually I haven't heard any crying about FC for a loooong time, is he really neads to be nullified? =)
WB or CL are much more pain in the ass IMHO...

**ThunderHost** · 23rd Jul 12 8:34 AM

@ Castigon
What's your point? It's been like this for ages, abusers will abuse. Noobs will get slaughtered and people will rage. If the game is truly dead to you, then move on and have fond memories of your good times with it.

**Fenra** · 27th Jul 12 2:20 PM

I think you missed the point, I'm feeling the same way about certain BO's and such (Nobz are key in my mind).

It's been grinded to a certain point that if you build a certain way, your opponent with either A. Know the counter, in which you're mostly already dead, B. Deploy wtf-was-that micro talents to win, in some cases will be hit-or-miss, or C. flail about helplessly as you rip him to shreds, game won before it started. Not saying all games are like this, but most games are for me (3v3 yes, but still.... it's all that's played on the custom level). I feel with plugged support, the game is nearing it end-of-days, just my opinion. Not saying it's not fun, by gods I played more hours on this than allot of games, but I feel it's coming to a close for allot of people, is all that's he's trying to convey.

**ThunderHost** · 27th Jul 12 5:01 PM

@ Fenra
And I respect that point of view , but it is most definitely not what I read from his post.
And yes, the game is/will go stale as no more patches are coming out. So either get on Caeltos & his goonies bandwagon and join the "elite-mod" pr accept that there's nothing we can do apart from not letting us self be subject to experiences(from computer games) that we don't want to be a part of..
I play on a semi-regular basis with comradegrumpy, also from this forum, and I think we still manage to get decent games. Granted, there's a lot of BS, but if you know it's coming, you can prepare for it.
Also,
If you're so above your opponent that you can ROFLstomp him, I'd say try something else. Triple HBD/Quadruple Termagant/Stay t1 forever/whatever makes the experience improve you. Disadvantage yourself, even if it means you might get hammered by a noob. After all, you know that you did it on purpose;-).

**Fenra** · 27th Jul 12 5:35 PM

I once did that in a 1v1 ranked, I had all the points and I just ended up spamming Wraithguard in hopes my SM opponent would use his FC against me.... Didn't work as planned

**Codex** · 28th Jul 12 3:19 AM

This guy Ronin Ryuichi completely turned the game on its head for me. It's one of the reasons I've become more aware of how matchups go through phases. He loves surprising my standard build with 3 melee 1 ranged, no upgrades. This is completely different. 2 CSM is pretty hopeless against that early on, so are 2 shoota builds, or even a balanced standard 2 scout 1 tac struggles. If he gets initiative, you've got power to lose and he doesn't, or at least it's problematic because he's not aiming for a T1.5 unit whereas you probably are.

He beat me a few times in quick order when I had just gotten my build wrong. Or you could say he got his build right. Anyway, he taught me that dogma in this metagame, even at this late stage of patch balance, is narrow minded and the metagame can still be shaken up.

Of course there's the dynamic of melee build just working better in 1v1 than 2v2 and 3v3, due to the preponderance of focus fire... but that's another topic.

**Castigon** · 29th Jul 12 10:42 AM

Codex
I saw some of your replays, and you are talking about another level of gaming here,
also I noticed that Ronin really has some surprising tactics/builds in some matchups,
but I got a feeling, that you micro was (in those reps I saw) better in most cases,
despite you lost a few times.

P.S. I really like this game, and I really won't give this up, but MP becoming
more and more useless to me, can you guys give me some advise about mods
for single player usage?
It would be great to play MP mods, but there would be no one to play with,
so I would appreciate something campign-like or skirmish-like where
I DON'T compete with bot, just have some fancy objectives?...
Space Hulk would be great if not broken so bad =(
Hope there are any...

**Gorb** · 29th Jul 12 11:51 AM

The point of this thread is, hopefully, to get players to play with, Castigon.

With any luck some of them will be up for playing with mods as well.

Unfortunately I can't think of any Single Player mods off of the top of my head; you should check out Heretek Cabal for more information.

**Arbit** · 29th Jul 12 9:42 PM

Castigon, you could try Caeltos' Elite mod, which is a balance mod but spiced up with a bunch of new units including chaos termies, fire dragons, and others. I think it has a decent following over on gamereplays and it's still developed by Caeltos. Never tried it myself.

**Codex** · 30th Jul 12 4:00 AM

Sure, my micro is better. But that's because I micro like a squirrel on caffeine. If anything that gives evidence to the idea that builds and tactics that are unconventional can still do well against the standard metagame approved build.

Also, real internet on the 1st! Woo

**fuggles** · 6th Aug 12 12:53 AM

You could always try my win condition mod for a bit of variety;
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...th-Retribution

Works on and offline and I'd be up for playing sometime, although I have no idea how to play Dow2 in honesty! Quite like the look of the Grey Knight mod though as I like shiny things.

**Ruzdreg** · 6th Aug 12 5:46 AM

I myself have stuck with the game ever since I got Retribution, which was a couple of months before the Tau Commander release. Although, I mostly stayed hidden away in The Last Stand.
Unfortunately, my internet is playing up (it's terrible in my new location and now unusable with all the kids off school) and so I've had to abort the online aspect of the game altogether, as I can't play a single game without loosing connection or suffering outrageous lag.

... but I want to play The Last Stand!

I just hope a decent number of people will still be around when the Summer is over.

**Castigon** · 6th Aug 12 8:38 AM

Thanks for your tips guys.

fuggles
Some of your winning conditions made me laugh, definitely gotta try it out

Ruzdreg
If you finish one or both arenas or get any hero to lvl 20, you will see how boring
and unvaring this mode is by itself... When you can control a single unit with
max. 4 abilities in very small room for any tactic... it's just killing boring, you really
haven't lost much unable to play this mod, and if someone says it's fun, remeber:
he is a liar!

BTW guys, found some cool stuff here:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...n-1-0-released!!)
I have played old Adratus' Reincarnate Mod, it was fun, but AI was a bit messy and bugged, also
overall balance wasn't complete in terms. Though I tryed out Armageddon and its real fun, AI is nearly
awesome, not in a way of tactics but in way that you feel game more WH40k-like, especially vs Orks
or Nids. Swarms and swarms of them will give U a bit of a run and great fun on Expert. Also there are
great improvements in some races (Chaos and SM especially), and this mod feels 100 times
more balanced than vDoW2 IS in its current state. Tryed with my friend in comstomp: IG + SM vs
2x Nids - truly epic battle. Cap moved to 200 and U can have only 4 vehicles on the field, it prevents
comp from abusing armor, so there are much blood, bodyparts and synckills.
I personally recommend!
P.S.
Good job, Adratus.

**Ruzdreg** · 8th Aug 12 12:17 PM

My internet seems to be sorted now (I hope), so I can continue once more. Oh and I absolutely love The Last Stand, even though I have done everything with it (including getting ALL achievements related to the game mode) and spent 100+ hours on it, I just can't put it down. Well, as the Orks say "Killing makes me feel like killing some more!"

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