It's still there, but its toned down a lot since the Dark Knight.Looking forward to seeing this, but does Bale still put on that ridiculous voice when he's Batman?
It's still there, but its toned down a lot since the Dark Knight.Looking forward to seeing this, but does Bale still put on that ridiculous voice when he's Batman?
It is? I didn't notice that at all; it sounded exactly the same.
Go back and watch the Dark Knight, he's way more clearer in Rises.
SpoilerThey did tweak the audio on Bane, and I found Bane to the more compelling and interesting of a villain, and I everything about him just made you fear him. He's a genius, terrifying bruiser and whatnot. When his mask got hit during the end and he goes into rage-mode and starts throwing punches made you realise he's much more terrifying then one would think. I also really digged the human-nature showcased at the end with Bane.
Tom Hardy did marvelous work on Bane, given the fact he only has his eyes and movement to showcase his acting in this. He's facial expression was menacing, and the fact he didn't need to sound like a gorilla to come across hostile was awesome in my honest opinion as well. The line "Does it look like your in charge?" followed by his actions and etc, just clarifies it. Apart from that, I really applaud Gordon-Levitt, he was the hidden-gem performancer in the movie alongside with Anne Hathaway, Tom Hardy is a brilliant actor, probably one of my favorite nowadays, it's not one of those "OH SHIT THIS IS SO GOOD" stuff.
As well, Gary Oldman was also top-notch, and the soundtrack was brilliant. I particulary did find the "Bane" theme to be perfect with his scenes as well, it really alongside with the acting of Tom Hardy just fueled the character furthermore. Also, did anyone notice- the Killer Croc reference at the movie?
One thing I also did like, is how they NEVER unveiled the "true-identity" of the Catwoman, as per say, the Alias- which is quite frankly ridicilous, she just had the reference of "cat" in a line, and her-moves were, relatively cat-like, yet at the end of the day, you knew she was a top notch burgler/thief. I think that was a pretty smart way to go. Oh, the whole Rhas'a'Ghoul Daughter thing was pretty predicatable- and somehow I found the short-lived romance with her pretty stupid, considering how Bruce Wayne was struggling with his past still, then just jump on the next chick train, only to again move onto Catwoman, which I found also odd, because I got the impression she was a lesbian- or well, she's into both. Either way, I did like the conclussion.
One thing I wish for more tho was Cillian Murphy, shame he never put on his mask and had another go with people. Also, Bane "dying" scene was pretty dissapointing, but I think it's up for grabs on what actually went down, who knows what that body of his can take, afterall- he survived the onslaught of those inmates in the prison cell. (Which again- I loved because they didn't bring back the dreadful comic "LOLREVIVE" pool, they just gave it a different type of "metaphor") pretty smart.
Alot of love to the original stuff, but keeping it true Nolan style, I give it a 9,5/10 Fingers up.
There wasn't a Killer Croc reference, alligators in the sewers is a common urban myth in NY, the city Gotham is based on in DKR. He was making fun of the idea that there is an army in the sewers.
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Caeltos, I did not find Bruce Wayne's new 'appetites' unrealistic. When you change your lifestyle like he did, certain other... ahem, primitive instincts, start moving as well.
I think it was a reference to Killer Croc Starblade because iirc, Blake say "Is there any Killer Crocs Down there too?" when referring to the conversation he had with the police about the army in the sewers.
Also, I always though Gotham was more based of Chicago than New York.
I dont think its based off any one city. It has elements from several major cities in the US including chicago and new york.
though in that vein Gotham seems to be based on east coast cities while Metropolis has a more LA San Fran west coast feel to it.
I'm pretty sure he straight up says "Did you see any alligators down there too" or similar and never says the word "crocodile", but if it's the former, then yes it's a reference.I think it was a reference to Killer Croc Starblade because iirc, Blake say "Is there any Killer Crocs Down there too?" when referring to the conversation he had with the police about the army in the sewers.
Apparently, both Gotham City and Metropolis are part Chicago, part New York ("Gotham" is a nickname for New York City in real life). Metropolis is supposedly those cities in the daytime; Gotham is at night. They're basically supposed to be any city on the east coast, from what I hear.Also, I always though Gotham was more based of Chicago than New York.
Bane's voice sounded kind of off in his first scene. I thought with a plane interior like that he shouldn't have come across that clearly. It sounded like it was coming from a headset when you wore it, rather through the air. Maybe I got used to it because it didn't stand out as badly mid-way in the film and onward.
Was anyone perturbed by Bane turning out to be just another lackey for another villain? True, he did most of the heavy lifting and it is a vast improvement over hired muscle and chauffeuring, but still. Bane was still fairly impressive but it would have been greater if he was the sole show-runner behind all of Batman's problems as I originally presumed he would be. While Talia isn't unexpected, it was implied that she planned the whole thing, which kind of steals Bane's thunder even though he was impressive of an adversary. Maybe that's something that made me not think Bane was as impressive of a villain as the Joker was, but there's a few things more you can say to that.
I have to confess some shipping impulses during the film between Talia, Wayne, and Selina. Catwoman seemed more interesting (in several senses of the word) than Talia did overall and I was kind of happy that there was a way out of crime for the character. On that note, I felt this was a good way to "End" Batman, if the saga ever felt it needed to have an end aside from riding into the sunset and picking the story up 50 years later with McGinnis.
John Blake was an interesting character and a refreshing take on the Robin idea by making him a cop/detective aiding batman instead of swinging right into the cape and tights. A friend disagrees with me, but I think it was nice to have him not really be Dick Grayson or any of the robins. The ambiguity of things at the end when he discovers the Batcave is also interesting depending on who in charge wants to return to the series. He could become Robin to a returned Bruce Wayne, he could become Nightwing to establish himself differently from Batman, or he could become the new Batman after receiving sekret training from ninjas or something.
Alfred's moment over the Wayne gravesite, and when Batman gives his hints to Gordon, were the most touching moments in the movie for me.
Overall I thought it was a nice way to end Batman. Dark Knight was a hard act to follow, and in the end I think Avengers was a better movie, but it was still a good way for the series to end.
As a final thought, anyone thought the bomb carry at the end was kind of familiar?
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Not sure about Bane's voice, but I guess the mask was perhaps meant to transmit his voice in a special way that makes localisation hard.
Kind of makes it ominous, plus it means enemies can't locate him in the dark while he can still keep talking.
The Dark one has Arrived.
NorsehoundThis didn't bother me, because Talia and Bane seemed like equals to me. Bane was still Batman's equal, he still did all the planning and work that we saw.Was anyone perturbed by Bane turning out to be just another lackey for another villain? True, he did most of the heavy lifting and it is a vast improvement over hired muscle and chauffeuring, but still.
I'm glad it wasn't just me. I was hoping they'd say the line too.As a final thought, anyone thought the bomb carry at the end was kind of familiar?
This was easily the most action packed motion picture adaptation of Albert Camus' La Peste I could ever have hoped for.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
I seem to be in a minority, but I was disappointed, particularly by Bane- gott in himmel but he sounded ridiculous to me. It was best at the beginning and end, when dealing with the emotional stuff, but in between... Eh, pretty ropey. Not a patch on the previous two.
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Oh I agree with you Kirjava, the starting and the ending were great. The padding in the middle was quite boring.
I keep saying this, but the best bits were when we saw Batman being batman, the police chase and Batman returning to Gotham were awesome. The Bruce Wayne and Blake parts... not so much.
Yeah, that was my main criticism of the movie as well. There was not enough Batman and too much Bruce-Wayne-In-A-Cave.
endingAlthough I loved the ending reveal that Bruce isn't dead. In the IMAX me and my friend turned to each other with huge grins on our faces when Gordon discovers the Bat Signal. I went to it again in regular theater with another group of friends and I had to hide an identical grin. Afterwards they said to me "How could you just sit there knowing what was about to happen?!"
The first film didn't have much Batman either, considering.
Let's sail in this sea of charms
Let's drown underneath the stars
It wasn't a bad movie, but I think the expectations after the last movie were simply too high.
That combined with imo pretty bad cuts and too much story for too little time (they should have made 2movies out of it imo) made it a rather mixed bag.
Just got home from the cinema. Overall a great movie, but I much prefer the two previous ones in tone and theme.
The greatest strenght of Batman, as I see it, is his diverse and compelling villain counterparts (which for example made the previous movie so amazing). This made me a little disappointed by this movie, as I simply didn't find Bane that interesting. Sure, he is menacing and down-right evil to boot, but he lacks something for me to find him very intriguing. The side characters however, including Gordon, Alfred, Selina Kyle and Blake were amazing, especially the two latter ones. I've always liked Anne Hathaway, but I think she nailed this role and did a fantastic interpretation of Catwoman. JGL is one of my favorite actors at the moment, and he definitely delivered here as well.
The movie had some great scenes (most of them being the non-fighting ones), and I loved the ending. A very nice conclusion to Nolan's Batman saga, although I found some of the parts in the middle of the movie lacking.
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I don't want anyone to think I didn't enjoy the film- it was fun. But I expected more from it, and I've identified the problem with it, for me at any rate.
There were simply too many moments that took me out of the moment, so to speak. The police charge, for instance, was absolutely ridiculous- they should have been gunned down like soldiers assaulting a trench in World War One. And Bane's voice, Connery-esque as it was, kept approaching helium levels. It made his dialogue difficult to take seriously.
And Miranda Tate wasn't developed anywhere near enough for her reveal as Talia Al Ghul to be particularly interesting. My overwhelming sensation was, "Oh, they got Talia in."
Going to see it again on Wednesday, maybe I'll reassess how I feel about it. But I feel very deflated.
Fridge logic nitpicks after the movie:
Spoiler(1) Did Bruce Wayne just throw a rope down into the prison? If it's not an actual prison anymore they didn't make that clear enough, cuz all those ppl seem like criminals to me. They may be Bane's enemies... but hey Bruce, rival gang bosses, arms dealers, and terrorist leaders can be Bane's enemies too. If they looked like concentration camp survivors it'd been more clear.
(2) Yeah, the Large Charge Of The Gotham PD was stupid. Totally WTF.
(3) Talia Al Ghul was unnecessary in this movie. The plot twist can be seen coming from a mile away. Her being a villain didn't add anything to the plot. And her reveal undercut Bane as the villain.
It's ok that she's a mole and Ghul's daughter, but she should have just been Bane's GF and subordinate. I'm not being sexist; it's just that Bane is the central villain who got all the screentime and all the sell, so don't take that away and make him a minion.
If you want to see more fisticuffs, and more of the Tom Hardy who played Bane, watch Warrior. It's a "Rocky movie" about UFC. Also in Star Trek Nemesis (when he was little), Bronson, and Inception.
Total homage of Frank Miller's TDKR, arc 2.also really liked how tired batman was during his fight scenes with bane and how effortless bane dominated him.
I was fully expecting Batman and Bane to fight their final match in a mud pit, LOL.
OMG so true.Bane = Transylvanian Sean Connery.
I knew he sounded like someone from 007. I had been guessing Q.
As long as it's not Johnny Depp.I think the riddler could be just as menacing but I see what your saying.
I've had enough of the celebrity merry-go-round from the previous Batman franchise. Especially any celebrity who has dealings with Tim Burton.
Why does Bruce still bother with the batvoice, when everyone in this freakin' movie knows his seekrit identity??Go back and watch the Dark Knight, he's way more clearer in Rises.
Movie #2 = Crime drama, with Batman in it.
Movie #3 = Crime drama, with Bruce Wayne in it.
Last edited by mlai; 28th Jul 12 at 7:03 PM. Reason: Spoilers but I don't agree with using it.
The idea that Talia would be Bane's subordinate is so laughably ridiculous for a franchise that has kept the character identity from the comics/earlier films intact.
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SpoilerWhy do people think Bane was a minion and not her equal in the film? What line led you guys to believe that? After the reveal it seemed pretty obvious to me they held each other in equal regard.It's ok that she's a mole and Ghul's daughter, but she should have just been Bane's GF and subordinate. I'm not being sexist; it's just that Bane is the central villain who got all the screentime and all the sell, so don't take that away and make him a minion.
I'm pretty sure its supposed to be psychological for Bruce. Batman is another person for him. Though, I like how it showed no one is really afraid of Batman anymore. In Begins, he scares the shit out of everyone. In TDK, the crime boss mocks him for it. In Returns, Bane and no one else really gives a shit.Why does Bruce still bother with the batvoice, when everyone in this freakin' movie knows his seekrit identity??
Last edited by Starblade; 28th Jul 12 at 9:09 AM.
I dunno Starblade- in TDK, Maroni and the other crime bosses are scared of Batman (hence why they have their "group therapy sessions in broad daylight"), but the problem for Batman becomes that they're more scared of the Joker, because he'll straight up kill them. So when BatBale is dangling Maroni off the building and afterwards, it's not so much that he's not scared of him, it's that the criminals are "wise to your act. You've got rules. The Joker, he's got no rules. Nobody's gonna cross him for you." In TDKR, just like in Begins, the League of Shadows guys aren't scared of Batman because they know everything he knows. None of the main villains (excepting perhaps Scarecrow, but that could just be his own exposure to his own fear gas in Begins) are afraid of Batman in any of the films, because either they know how he operates (League of Shadows) or they're straight-up crazy (Joker).
That's the reason he's not scary anymore. Everyone has figured out the game. See anyone shying away from Batman in Returns (no, the hundreds of armed goons aren't League of Shadows, just Bane and Talia. The rest were recruited along the way)? In TDK they aren't frightened of Batman, they're afraid they'll fuck up his plans. Joker's mocking them. One of the guys in the "group therapy session" gets smug as fuck right before Batman breaks all two of his legs. He's not afraid of him; listen to his tone, watch his face. Batman learned from the League of Shadows but he slipped up, he's become too public a figure. The tactics Batman employs have diminishing returns. They aren't; but if they were to do another movie it would be interesting to see how they deal with Batman after the events of TDKR.So when BatBale is dangling Maroni off the building and afterwards, it's not so much that he's not scared of him, it's that the criminals are "wise to your act. You've got rules.
Don't really care about what she has been doing in the 60 years lifespan of the comics. This movie is not exactly canon considering Bane is now from League Of Shadows and sports a Sean Connery accent.The idea that Talia would be Bane's subordinate is so laughably ridiculous for a franchise that has kept the character identity from the comics/earlier films intact.
I'm looking at in-universe story:
Spoiler(1) Her father is dead. LoS in tatters.
(2) Bane comes back and occupies the vacancy. LoS is now his crew.
(3) She's so good of a mole, her business/industry is all legit. Otherwise Bats would have noticed it already. She has been in his radar for years, after all. He would have checked out her entire background, considering she's interested in his most-prized tech.
(4) So, she has no underworld connections anymore. All dried up. Except, if she makes nice with Bane. If she works for him, she'll have the muscle and she'll provide the legit resources. It doesn't make her revenge any less potent.
That's another thing. Bane should consider nobody his equal. So if they hold each other in equal regard it undercuts Bane. And when Bane made lovey-dovey eyes at Talia, his entire sell has crumbled.Why do people think Bane was a minion and not her equal in the film?
Not saying you can't have an evil power-couple. However then you have to present and develop the pair as that. Bane is built up for 2.5 hours as the sole badass and then, "Hi, I've been the good little girl this whole movie but now plot makes me his equal." I've known she's a mole since they first showed her the reactor, but I didn't expect a Giant Flea From Space trope twist.
Last edited by mlai; 28th Jul 12 at 7:05 PM. Reason: Spoilers. And TV tropes is not dumb; Bruce Wayne is dumb.
We should be using spoiler tags by the wayBane's entire thing (besides the acid steroids) is he is literally Batman's equal in all aspects.Bane should consider nobody his equal.
I didn't say, and the film certainly doesn't show, that Talia is physically or mentally his match. I said the film doesn't show one as the minion of the other. What about the end of the film led you to think "Talia is superior to Bane and Bane is just her underling, despite the last two hours of film showing him working independently, leading, fighting, and planning"? I'm not seeing it. Is it because she told him to stay behind and keep Batman from interfering?Bane is built up for 2.5 hours as the sole badass and then, "Hi, I've been the good little girl this whole movie but now plot makes me his equal."
I don't know what a Giant Flea From Space is but I'm going to guess it's a dumb tv tropes thing.
I never said the movie was canon, mlai.
I said the series had kept the roles of the characters well. Bane appears to be no exception, so why would they make Talia someone's candy girl? She isn't Harley Quinn.
And yes, spoiler tags please. Haven't managed to see it myself yet (hence the lack of actual debate).
Hm, can we not just chuck "SPOILERS!!!" in the thread title and have people enter at their own risk? Not only does a conversation consisting of spoiler tags become tricky to follow, we're kind of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Also, I see your point about the fear thing Starblade, though I do agree with mlai about the impression given regarding the relationship between Talia and Bane. It came off that way to me as well.
I'd rather use the spoilers so we can talk about the other Batman movies as well. It's still a new release, after all.
- I did not like Miranda Tate becoming a bad guy at all. It was a contrived last minute reveal that literally didn't add anything for me to the movie.
- I liked the fact this movie had a clearer direction. Begins didn't have a clear villain. TDK had a clear villain, but no mission. Begins had a clear villain with a clear enough mission. Good.
- Too long. Not enough Batman. Too much crippled Bruce.
- I liked the Robin twist.
- Ending was satisfying.
- Bane was an awesome villain. Maybe not as good as Joker as a persona, but he totally ramped presentation up to a whole nother level. In terms of rival power, he blew Joker out of the water.
Last edited by roflmao; 28th Jul 12 at 5:41 PM.
A word on spoiler tags.
The thread topic is "The Dark Knight Rises." The movie came out in the USA July 20, 2012. In the rest of the world 4 days earlier. Today is July 29.
Why spoiler tags? Why would you enter if you haven't yet seen the movie?
The only reason I harped on spoiler tags in the Game Of Thrones thread is because ppl were discussing book spoilers. If I haven't watched the TV lastest episode and I got spoiled by TV spoilers, it's only myself to blame.
This is a trilogy, and nine days is not a long time.Why spoiler tags? Why would you enter if you haven't yet seen the movie?
Also, it's July 28 here in the states.
Sucks that I have to say this, but just got back from watching the film a second time.
The more I see it/think about it, the more I really dislike the messages this film's plot is presenting: Don't encourage the poor rise up against the rich. They are going to go Robspierre on you with death or death courts, and nuke the city! Instead we should trust the billionaires to do what's right, because everyone is a good guy deep down.
David S. Goyer's themes are also present in Black Ops 2, who's villain he describes as a "Julian Assange like character, the self proclaimed leader of the 99%". Oh and apparently anonymous are the guys hacking the armed drones in the game, if the V masks in the trailers are anything to go by.
I may be wrong, but it seems to be a bit more than a massive coincidence that Bane and his subordinates literally invade wall street and attack the rich etc, say everything but "the one percent" and "occupy", and that we're supposed to be cheering for the heroic cops selflessly giving their lives without a second thought throughout the movie.
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They say everything but that because the script was written before the Occupy movement existed.
Also yeah, the film has some awful political messages at face value. The film isn't saying all billionaires are saints, though; Bane was brought in on the whim of one of the billionaires. Bruce Wayne has abandoned several charities in his seclusion. Bane's message was an illusion, as well; it was never about a revolution (and, by the way, the actions in TDKR have nothing at all to do with what the Occupy movement is pushing for; they aren't striving for anarchy). The people aren't the ones holding the city hostage; Bane is. The film is explicit on this. I'm not so sure that there's anything about any modern movement (it's been said that TDK was inspired by a Tale of Two Cities and the French Revolution, though, good call) feel that it's more of a response to the Joker in TDK. Bane gave them the push that the Joker failed to do.
On the other hand, the bad guys invade a city and declare themselves liberators, overthrowing the government using military vehicles and weaponry decked out in desert camo and using shock and awe tactics, claiming to be there for the people and propping up a new regime while secretly fulfilling ulterior motives. An attack on the city was done before by the leader's father. Remnants of the old guard fight back in scattered, disorganized groups in small cells while kangaroo courts are held for any surviving elites.
Also, Black Ops 2 is indefensible. Fuck that and fuck Oliver North.
I agree with what Starblade is saying, in that the film doesn't present either side (rich/poor) as strictly black and white. Both sides have aspects of humanity and aspects of villainy.
However, because of how film #3 touches on current events (the growing wealth gap in USA), I feel Batman hasn't moved with the times. He has rid the city of the mafia, GJ. But then he decides it's time to retire, and not only stops being Batman, but also stops being a responsible community leader. This allows the short-sighted self-enriching social elite (of which Taggett is a gross caricature of, but not by much) to move in and suck on the life of the city. These ppl don't break the laws because they make the laws, and they make the populace miserable just like the mafia did, but Bruce Wayne is too blind to it. He really does live in an ivory tower and think the only criminals are the ones packing guns.
Yes and the excuse to not use the new tech that had cost his company's fortune to research? WTF, talk about paranoia. Maybe he's never heard of nuclear energy.
I thought the theme was all about power and those that control it.
No one (bat)man should have all that power.
He's a crazy person who doesn't want to turn the next best thing for humanity into a nuclear misslebomb but at the same time makes everything he finds into a weapon. One of the major themes of the film is Bruce Wayne finally getting over the past and moving on with his life. It's why there's so little of Batman in the film.WTF, talk about paranoia. Maybe he's never heard of nuclear energy.
Exactly Starblade, I got the feeling that Rises was all about power, and just because you can use something powerful; doesn't mean you should (the Fission Core/Clean Slate)
The plot of the movie is lifted from Albert Camus' The Plague. Srsly you guys.
Also, I think the theme of the movie is pain, where as the two earlier ones dealt with fear and chaos, respectively.Originally Posted by imdb
The ultimate villain is a well adjusted millionaire. Which is one more reason I completely disliked the last minute reveal. Not because of whatever underlying political message you want to read into the movie, just because the move was one hundred percent inconsistent with Bane's professed philosophy. It broke the movie.
I just came back from seeing it; really enjoyed the film. Personally I'd place it above Begins but just below Dark Knight.
SpoilerPartly because Nolan's political asides felt like more of a distraction in this one than they were in Dark Knight but also because I (still) just don't get Nolan's League of Shadows. Begins makes their plot to destroy Gotham out to be a "the cancer is too widespread, we must amputate" type decision, but Rises spends its entire first act going "Gotham is crime free now" again and again, to the point of Blake complaining the police have nothing bigger to work on than late library books. Their stated mission is more than accomplished. Why does this organisation still want to destroy this one city so badly it will wipe itself out in a nuclear blast to do it?
Winter is coming.
SpoilerI have one question. Do you guys think cops in real life will do that, just run in with no guns and whoop some mofo terrorist ass!! DO ya? Those cops was awesome, even more so than bat man.
No qaurter back men, only forward or we will hold this line forever!!!
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Which one, the one he told everyone or the one he actually held? He was lying to Gotham, remember; he doesn't actually give a shit about the people or giving the city back to them or any of that. He wants to blow the whole city up.Which is one more reason I completely disliked the last minute reveal. Not because of whatever underlying political message you want to read into the movie, just because the move was one hundred percent inconsistent with Bane's professed philosophy.
SpoilerThe "organization" consists of Talia and Bane, who are doing it out of revenge towards Bruce and to fulfill Ra's goal of burning it to the ground to prove his point or something, I guess. It didn't make a whole lot of sense back in the first movie either.Their stated mission is more than accomplished. Why does this organisation still want to destroy this one city so badly it will wipe itself out in a nuclear blast to do it?
Commissar, I think in real life someone would eventually remember they are holding a machine gun and the guys running at him aren't. I thought that was the worst scene in the movie, honestly. Having the Bat swoop down and blow up the turret on the tank was just silly.
I have to admit that one moment was one of my only problems in the movie, it stuck out far to much in my mind when I was watching it.
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I thought police charge was more due to the fact that those guys had been living underground for the last 4-5 months on just basic supplies. They were all angry as fuck at these criminals taking over their town, they were all hopped up on adrenaline and they wanted to get in their and kick some asses (hell you even saw a traffic cop, which his hazard vest and everything charging in there) to get some revenge for all the other cops that they've killed.
It wasn't what the cops did that was so surprising, it was that they didn't just get gunned down by the bunch of "mercenaries" after a few seconds.
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