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#1
A new preview is up :
http://mature-gaming.com/uncategoriz...f-heroes-2-pc/
Seems to focus more on enviromental aspects like the cold being a factor. Not sure if any of this applies to Multiplayer though. Also the KV-1 gets confirmed it seems plus the Katyusha, but that one was a given i'd argue.
And an additional preview. Showing a few new screenshots, including a heavy 120mm mortar
Last edited by Imperial Dane; 24th Jul 12 at 9:15 AM.
Nice find Dane - cheers!
Ice and snow drifts as an environmental hazard? Too cool
On the 120mm Polkovoy Minomyot obr. 1938...I wonder if the Germans will get their copy of that - the 12cm GrW 42?
Rock Paper Shotgun has one too. Troops can die from the cold, and ice can be broken and then refreeze afterwards. Sounds like the maps themselves will be changing a lot during battles, which is cool.
Something else came to mind - will they be handling muddy roads the same way as snow? The rainy seasons in the fall and spring - and of course the spring thaw - turns the numerous dirt roads that criss-cross Russia into nearly impassible quagmires due to traffic churning up mud...and yes, even to this day large dirt roads exist in Russia. The Russians call these seasons and the conditions that arise as rasputitsa..with great exasperation the Germans referred to this as "General Mud".
During the first winter, the Germans found to their dismay most wheeled vehicles and horse-drawn weapons / transport could become completely bogged down on these roads, resulting in massive traffic jams and delaying the transport of badly needed supplies and equipment. Practically the only vehicles that could traverse this morass were fully-tracked ones and even those did so with varying degrees of success. Often times, the Germans would use captured Soviet tanks (minus their turrets) to help haul trapped vehicles out of the mud and ferry supplies along these "roads". And it wasn't just the Germans that were affected by this...
On a further note, I hope not all the maps are winter themed
#5
Pretty sure they're not. Recall some concept art showing a ROA soldier in winter and non winter themed uniforms.
And don't think the germans will get a similar heavy mortar. Probably the 82mm mortar again. Also looks like Snipers (soviet at least) will be deployed in teams.
Getting more and more skeptic, really. I don't really want to manage stuff like unit temperature, it's right up there with ammo and fuel supply management on the tedium un-fun scale. Here's hoping it plays a minor role in actual gameplay and only concerns specific areas/conditions.
- sincerely, the Sign Painter
The 120mm mortar team looks to be 5 men, judging by how everyone in that screenshot has exactly the same uniform and gear.
If you look closely, only one of the rifles has a scope. My guess is that a Soviet sniper team has only one marksman, and the other man is the spotter. To go along with that I also guess that the scoped rifle is probably a slot item, so it gets passed to the spotter when the marksman dies.Originally Posted by Imperial Dane
Seriously?it's right up there with ammo and fuel supply management on the tedium un-fun scale
Part of COH's fun factor is fighting over vital bits of territory that grant special resources that allow you to get more powerful units and abilities. Even the act of disconnecting a seemingly insignificant strat point to isolate an opponent from a fuel point they need to get tanks or a munitions point to deny the use of off-map artillery adds a much appreciated sense of tactical and strategic depth to the game.
Frankly, the more depth that Relic adds to COH, the better the gaming experience will be for RTS gamers that like that sort of thing
Noticed that too - a sniper and possibly a spotter. However, it's possible we're looking at two snipers from 2 squads of 1 each (although that's a bit unlikely given the closeness of the two snipers and the difference in the rifles - one's scoped and the other doesn't appear to be so). Speaking of Snipers, I wonder how they'll treat the German ones? Scoped Kar 98K or scoped Gew 43?Also looks like Snipers (soviet at least) will be deployed in teams.
@Relic / THQ: would it be possible to see some non-winter maps?
#9
I'm pretty sure there will be non-winter maps as evidenced by the tidbit (in previous articles) which states that soldier clothing would change (no idea how much it would change, mind) dependent on the weather.
I am an Iron Warrior! Iron Within, Iron Without!
#10
Additionally, at the big THQ press event a while back we saw a screenshot of a verdant green map with a sparkly river, so they exist in some capacity at least.
I agree with Dane, I think it's entirely possible that it's a campaign-only mechanic to have the troop thermometers.
Er, you misunderstand. I did not mean CoH Munitions and Fuel - I meant stuff like making sure your soldiers don't run out of ammo and vehicles don't run out of fuel Men of War/Wargame:EE style. I think what CoH has done with the concept of Fuel and Munitions is great. I don't have to babysit my soldiers and constantly check up on their supplies, but lack of Munitions still hurts me greatly and no Fuel - no vehicles. Adding this temperature thingie adds an IMHO unnecessary mechanic - unless it's area specific, like there are "death zones" where you have to accept this limitation, possibly in exchange for a better tactical situation or whatever. Sorta like negative cover.Seriously?
Part of COH's fun factor is fighting over vital bits of territory that grant special resources that allow you to get more powerful units and abilities. Even the act of disconnecting a seemingly insignificant strat point to isolate an opponent from a fuel point they need to get tanks or a munitions point to deny the use of off-map artillery adds a much appreciated sense of tactical and strategic depth to the game.
@LoneWolf: Ah - I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying your point there
@Obtuse: Cheers mate - thanks for that bit of info
#13
The thing about the weather thing is to remember that it apparently only happens during blizzards. So IF it is in multiplayer, it's only going to happen from time to time randomly. And what it means is that fighting will be a lot more sluggish as everyone huddles up in cover, buildings, troop transports or by camp fires. It could really have a ton of effects, like you'd only see a lot of armour fighting during blizzards, or infantry would only fight very little. Or even, just fights over buildings and camp fires, and attempts to knock out the other camp fires.
It could either work REALLY well, or it could be a huge pain in the arse. I'll definately give option two some merit. But i will also say it could work very well. It's not about managing troops deeply all the time. It's merely a change of pace if you will. It could make burning off buildings a troublesome prospect in more than one way. Because great, you just took the central VP , but you burned down the buildings around it. You've barely got any armour, the enemy has some. And you're forced to set up camp fires in the open to huddle your men around. How will things turn out then ? Or replace the Tanks with halftracks with Panzergrenadiers in them.
Essentially it is something that could really change how the game plays alongside truesight. But it could EASILY be something just for multiplayer.
Even then, we're getting Heavy mortars, katyushas, KV-1s. And still not sure about the German troops with white helmets, in one screenshot they have MP40s, in this one it looks like rifles. Guessing Pioneers though. Still. There's more to it than just cold stuff.
My guess is that Relic doesn't have any new visual assets for the Germans that are ready to show off to the public yet, which I can understand. More than likely they're focusing on fleshing out the Soviet units first as those have to be created from scratch...besides the Soviets are the centerpiece of the game anyway and their units ought to be shown off first
For testing purposes, existing Axis models can readily serve as placeholders until new models can be brought ingame
As far as dealing with how the cold affects troops ingame, I thought of something interesting that more than likely Relic's considering or has even implemented: Occupying buildings halts the effects of cold weather on a squad's health and stamina / movement rate and slowly restores any health and stamina lost to exposure outside. This would make it worth your while to try and keep buildings intact and occupy them ASAP. Conversely, destroying buildings and other forms of cover while retreating in a blizzard / winter storm scenario would be a really evil form of scorched earth to use against your opponent.
With that in mind, flamethrowers are going to be soooooooooooooo useful. I relish the idea of deploying OT-34's / Flammpanzer III Ausf. M's against troops huddled in buildings to avoid the freezing air
"Here, let me warm you poor bastards up! Bwhahahahahaha!"
#15
It really depends on what makes it into the multiplayer and how the single player is handled. I could see the need to manage your troops tempture in the single player, but I think it would be out of place in the multiplayer when you should simply be focusing on eliminating your enemies.
I'm slightly more excited about seeing the Wehrmacht than seeing the Russians.
#16
@Mirage knight: Buildings do that. Things that provide protection against the cold are, cover, fires, buildings and transport vehicles. Probably to varying degrees. So essentially things are going to bog down quite a bit during a blizzard except for the bolder fellows.
As for the wehrmacht, it is probably because they want to really show off the russians. But we have seen the return of the good old wehrmacht halftrack.
I must admit though, the katyushas look pretty spectacular.
But as Akranadas, looking mostly forward to the new wehrmacht.
The notion of being tempted in the cold in a conflict to light fires to stay warm, sounds to me a lot like a kind of fog of war dynamic. A temporary life saving power up if you will. You may be in the fog of war to the enemy, but light a few fires, and now comes the artillery. I agree though it sounds a lot better as a comp stomp skirmish thing vs multi-player though.
Looks like a placeholder from this end I'm afraid. Considering that the Panzer IV we've seen in screen shots is definitely a placeholder and that even Relic said that much of what's ingame at present for the Germans is pretty much placeholder material, I believe that's also the case here with the Sd.Kfz. 251. At least the trusty mount of the Panzergrenadiers will returnAs for the wehrmacht, it is probably because they want to really show off the russians. But we have seen the return of the good old wehrmacht halftrack.
That they do! Maybe we'll get to see a Panzerwerfer 42 auf Maultier or at least a revamped Sd.Kfz. 251/1 mitt Wurfrahmen 40 for the Germans...perhaps the latter with an ability to select between HE and Incendiary rockets...I must admit though, the katyushas look pretty spectacular.
Indeed.But as Akranadas, looking mostly forward to the new wehrmacht.
This info is neat but yeah, I'm mostly looking forward to seeing the new Wehrmacht, and MP.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Not much love for the Red Army around here it seems
Combat engineers building fires? Why can't everyone do it? I suppose it's easier to start a fire if you happen to have flammable liquids on hand, but still. It also raises the question of incendiary weapons. Will setting a house on fire make people warmer if they stay near it?
Also, if combat engineers can get flamethrowers, they must say, "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life," or some derivation of it, either when building a campfire or getting the flamethrower upgrade. Methinks "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for the night. If you set him on fire, though.... hehehe" would be totally awesome.
Also, the god damned halftrack better not smell like volksgrenadiers this time around. On a related note, I want engineers to complain a lot when they have to get into a vehicle full of dead crew.
#22
Presumably for the sake of effective unit design, Zallis.
Additionally, if they're the only ones equipped against the cold, they're in the best position to start a fire without dropping things from their frozen hands
#23
This just keeps getting better, it sounds like you will be able to use tracks in the snow to work out what units passed through that way, and even track snipers. "Of course you can always force them to cut a more direct path to a target, but you risk leaving tracks, many of which are unique enough that a skilled player will be able to tell exactly what passed through the area. Just imagine a situation with a sniper: In the original game, terrain would never give them away, but now it’s more important than ever to position sharpshooters in an area that provides adequate concealment, lest hunters trace their tracks."
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that
heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Isaac Asimov
#24
Really awesome details, and it seems that mother nature is going to be a key factor in the game, which could be very interesting and challenging to play with. As far as game details, you definitely can see they are mostly promoting the new Essence Engine, and revealing what it can do.
I do hope that more game related details will come in the near future too.
#25
@Zallis: To make sure engineers have some use as well i believe.
@Geoffs: I suppose they'll have to do something similar with Mud for the non winter maps. Still, going to be pretty fun.
@Celestial: We all do, in particular something on the wehrmacht.
@Mirage Knight: Well i'd hope for perhaps a Grille instead, and some different upgrades for the halftrack, perhaps an AA Gun, or perhaps the cannon upgrade. So much fun to choose from in the wehrmacht arsenal
But there does indeed seem to be a larger interest in the wehrmacht here.
Sd.Kfz. 251/17 AA / Fire Support / Platoon HQ Halftrack with a single 2cm FlaK 38 or the Sd.Kfz. 251/21 AA Halftrack - the one with the 3 MG 151/20 cannon? Now that was a fearsome close range AA weapon. Cannon upgrade...you talking about the Sd.Kfz. 251/9 "Stummel" or the Sd.Kfz. 251/22 "Pakwagen"? The latter was a late war vehicle, only appearing around December 1944 onwards.Well i'd hope for perhaps a Grille instead, and some different upgrades for the halftrack, perhaps an AA Gun, or perhaps the cannon upgrade. So much fun to choose from in the wehrmacht arsenal
Because German engineering and style is just cool like thatBut there does indeed seem to be a larger interest in the wehrmacht here.
#27
Of course it is. But i was thinking of the Stummel. And well. We still don't know what period multiplayer will be set in. Although i guess something around 1944 do to the talk about Tigers and IS-2s from Hirmetrium's preview. Possibly 1943-44 or 1944-45. Since the T-34/76 shown is of the variant which only saw combat from 1943 and onwards.
And i think the KV-1 is the KV-1c, which is a 1942 model.. So would also fit the 1943 bill a bit as well i think.
They've mentioned before that the campaign will start with Operation Barbarossa and end with the fall of Berlin. However they'll probably still selectively pick what equipment ends up in the game, rather than include everything from 1939 to 1945. For example, the campaign's early years might have you stuck as an infantry commander, that way they can avoid making early tanks like the BT-2 and T-26, and then "promote" you to a tank commander in the middle of the war when T-34s and KV-1s would have been plentiful.
#29
Well they still could give you a T-34 or a KV1 or two. But more likely the campaign will be easing you into things with the different arms available.
Have y'all seen this? http://ow.ly/i/Nuep/original
THOSE TANKS ARE F'ING SINKING DUDE OMG THIS GAME IS GOING TO BE SO GOOD OMG OMG OMG
So, can we put demo charges on ice and set up a trap for tanks/inf? Pretty sure that would make this GOTYAY.
Lol not reading the thread, I am retarded. But I'm still excited!
Last edited by Promythyus; 25th Jul 12 at 10:59 AM. Reason: HIGH RES IMAGEZ
I guess day 1 DLC was too casual for EA, so let's start doing 8-month-early DLC! - Shuma
Eagerly awaiting DoW3 with mod tools. You hear me Relic?!
#31
The ice is all sorts of awesome. Ice 'chunks' have individual hit points, so some portions can take more damage than others. Tanks take away HP as they roll over the ice, and heavier tanks will hurt it more. Obviously, explosives and munitions do the most damage, so pre-weakening the ice before your enemy tries to cross it is a totally legit tactic. Ice in CoH2 is sweet.
Guess I won't be rolling any KT's over frozen rivers while under fire then! Thanks for the info
I had a thought...what about having bridges that can only support up to a certain weight as it were? Like a wooden bridge that would weaken and/or collapse under the weight of a Tiger but not a Panzer IV or Panther for instance? Now that would be really interesting.
#33
I am just starting to wonder about The more "regular maps" Stuff with mud and such in it. What will make those special ?
Also something that does strike me is the talk of the blizzards and airpower, certainly sound like the Germans this time around will have some airpower to aid them. Will Regular maps have storms instead of blizzards ?
I suppose another question is. will weapons be towable by vehicles. and how will the German sniper look, how will they differ from CoH 1 snipers.. oh so many questions.
Mostly i just want something new about the Wehrmacht though. That and a gameplay trailer.
Airpower will probably come in the form of the Henschel Hs 129 (hopefully the B-2 with the 3cm MK 103 cannon and not the ultra-rare B-3 with the BK 75), Fw 190 F series or even the venerable Ju 87 Stuka
Towable artillery and AT guns would definitely be a welcome sight in COH! I'm really tired of hearing my PaK crews whining "Why doesn't this thing have an engine?!"
What he said.Mostly i just want something new about the Wehrmacht though. That and a gameplay trailer.
As much as it pains me I have a feeling we won't really be seeing that much Wehrmacht until we see MP. Which might be a ways away. At least getting to see Wehr and MP in detail at the same time will be like Christmas, doubly if it ends up taking as long as I suspect it might.
So looking forward to this, the new game-play mechanics sound very interesting to say the least. Liked that screenshot of the tanks on ice so much I made it my backround.
Hope you can rig the ice with charges to both divide your enemies and plunge them into the icy waters, better get mine detectors this time lads
(Formerly "The Herald")
"The bible is like an EULA. People just scroll past everything and click "I agree" without reading it."
-Moe
#37
Actually i imagine we might see a bit more of the wehrmacht as time passes on and they get in proper assets for them. Even if the focus is on the soviets, they'd be silly not to show off the Glorious German Warmachine here and there
The key to multiplayer and it's period though lies in the Panzer III, if it is ingame. Then i can pretty confidently say it's 1943-44. If it is not. 1944-45. But 1943-44 would be the more interesting period for multiplayer as it has more for everyone. Whereas 1944-45 doesn't really bring a lot of new things.
#38
For some reason after reading that quote, Obi-Wan popped into my head saying "Sand people move in single file to hide their numbers" XDThis just keeps getting better, it sounds like you will be able to use tracks in the snow to work out what units passed through that way, and even track snipers. "Of course you can always force them to cut a more direct path to a target, but you risk leaving tracks, many of which are unique enough that a skilled player will be able to tell exactly what passed through the area. Just imagine a situation with a sniper: In the original game, terrain would never give them away, but now it’s more important than ever to position sharpshooters in an area that provides adequate concealment, lest hunters trace their tracks."
Actually, far from being purely a change of pace thing, I think maybe we should be looking at blizzards and temperature in a wider context - it sounds like in this game, far more than in the previous one, battlefield intelligence is going to be key. With tracks through deep snow and true visibility, tracking/finding units (and even better, laying ambushes) is going to be much more difficult (and vital). Now put blizzards into that context. From what this thread suggests, it essentially shuts units down, preventing them moving beyond a given scope (and potentially with campfires making positions more obvious). But presumably what it also does is make the potential for (risky?) sneak attacks even greater. There's nothing like decreased visibility and the certainty that nothing could survive out there for making commanders fatally complacent...
awesome pics but they are mainly sketches of what they "want" to happen. Whether or not it works out that way remains to be seen. Hopefuly it will be another insane break throught like CoH was when it hit the market
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