Horus Heresy and the Emperor

[Lord Abaddon]

The more I read through the Horus Heresy novels the less I am convinced that the Emperor was somehow just taken off guard by an event of such significance as the Great Heresy after 38 thousand years of existing for the sake of bettering mankind through immense knowledge of the secrets of the material and ethereal. I haven't made it that far into the novels (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames, Eisenstein, Legion) so maybe some secret twists of plot and fate might discredit some of my points in this post but here are my impressions so far.

Also I didn't bother spoiler tagging anything since the books are 4 or 5 years old now and if you haven't read them by now then you probably won't at all.

First big point I'd present is that the Heresy itself is the worst kept secret ever, even before its seed was sown Temba warned Horus of it on Davin and Magnus warned him of it during his vision, the alien Jorgall psyker creature warned Garro, although pretty subtly. It was also implied that Grulgor knew of it and Fulgrim was warned of it as well by Ulthran. Euphrati Keeler spoke of it and Loken saw the death of the galaxy as well. Not to mention the Cabal. It was just one of those things that it seems everyone knew but the one who should have known and a horrible chain of events that could have been broken with the slightest effort on the side of anyone involved. I sincerely doubt a being of Emperor's power and knowledge could just miss out on signs a few low level psykers could know about. One does not become a ruler of such a vast domain without being privy to everything that is or will transpire within.

Second, the more obvious one, is Imperial Fists being called back to Terra to fortify it. During the end-stages of a war to rule the galaxy the last thing one would consider doing in the Emperor's place is fortifying the capital, tucked away safely in a belt of giant lasers of death mounted on orbital stations and battlefleets circling the system. It's as if Napoleon called half of his army back to fortify Paris if Bernadotte was nearing the gates of Vladivostok with the rest of the world already under his rule. The only plausible enemy to reach the gates of the palace of Eternity is a rebellious primarch, in this case Horus. I'm thinking either the Emperor knew not to fully trust his offspring or he knew about the Heresy as a possibility and had his palace fortified just in case.

The third point, slightly less obvious but obvious nonetheless, is the issue of who guided the saint of the Divinitatus, Keeler. I think blaming Chaos for it is implausible unless they are so fickle that they don't even want final victory. I think (and this still sounds mighty retarded) that the Emperor used the Lectitio Divinitatus and its new saint to, uh, warn himself about the Heresy he already knew about. This made a lot more sense in my head.
Anyways, I doubt Keeler was a latent psyker herself despite the Sisters of Silence stating that she exibits some worrying signs given that she didn't fly apart in their presence (since the SoS themselves are nulls and thus anathema to psykers even by presence alone) and didn't even lose confidence. Garro explained that he felt the light of a "golden giant" which dwarfed even the light of Keeler, which is pretty much definitely the Emperor.

The fourth point, if a point at all, is that the Emperor withdrew from the war, suddenly and definitely, leaving Horus without any explanation whatsoever (which is an insult by itself), no direct knowledge of Chaos, bruised pride and the title of Warmaster. It seemed as if it was intentional on his part. Humiliating Lorgar, insulting Horus, backing out, not forbidding the warrior lodges, not educating his sons on Chaos.

The only conclusion this could lead to doesn't make any sense - that the Emperor wanted or needed Horus to betray him, break his bones and let the Imperium bleed from a thousand wounds for ten thousand years. Either that or he did everything he did and just hoped for the best, which would kind of explain his disbelief when he saw Horus turned.

[Gorb]

1. Everybody who knew of the impending doom, or whom at least believed it weren't well-enough connected. Add to this the Warp turbulence and inteference with the Astronomicon and you have some severe issues with intra-galactic (I think that's the right word) communication.

Despite that, Temba's words were pretty cryptic. However, I figure Horus would've worked it out had he not been smacked down by Anathame poison about thirty minutes after the cryptic revelation.

Grulgor was also more of a "ha ha the Heresy is already in motion", especially when (SPOILER) he came back as an undead teleporting zombie Guard. By that point the knowledge was a tad late, in my opinion.

Fulgrim and Ulthuan was intefered with, directly, by the daemonic presence of the Laer blade in Fulgrim's possession.

So yes, while there were a lot of signs, signs which should be obvious to everybody - they are only obvious to the reader. We are the only one that gets to experience everybody's actions (when more than a few were happening in-parallel, in-universe) one after the other. Chaos got pretty much everything right. Pretty much everything, simply because CHAOS RULES THE UNIVERSE didn't quite come to pass.

2. The Emperor was working on something. Something that involved his direct attention and oversight. You'll find out more about this and specifically about Magnus in A Thousand Sons (which by the by is a fantastic read and probably one of the best in the series - again, in my opinion. It and Fulgrim are pretty much up there as "As Awesome As It Gets", for me ). Suffice to say that it was in fact a pretty damned good reason to retreat from the front lines considering that most of the major conquests had been wrapped up and the Primarches were getting on (relatively) well (barring the influence of Chaos).

3. Um, the Emperor. His presence, through the Astronomicon/Warp, as a benevolent Warp entity. Literally. This guy's cosmic power was staggering - enough to go up against the Four Gods of Chaos and win (to a certain extent; it is often mentioned that he "stole" power from the Chaos Gods). The Chaos Gods can grant their followers power - it makes sense that the Emperor can do the same (to a more limited extent, under certain circumstances).

4. He made a mistake in not warning the Primarches, I feel. In some of the older Heresy-based texts, I think it explicitly mentions his regret and/or feelings of failure. I could be wrong there, however. As incredibly powerful as he is, he is not infallible. He is capable of making mistakes. He loved his sons to a fault, and the fault was believing too much of them.

Additionally, he Hates religion. Religion is the dogma that he sought to eliminate as it retarded technological progress (in his eyes - disclaimer - no parallels should be drawn to Real Life and/or mistake this comment for Gorb's opinions on religion). He didn't want to eliminate the archaic and myth-shrouded rituals of the past, only to have himself foisted upon his people. His sons (and various others) disagreed with this stance, naturally. But the fact remains that the Emperor really didn't want any form of organised religion affecting the development of humanity, and that his "ascension" and subsequent deification is probably one of the most ironic results of the Heresy.

[ph03nIXx]

Without having the time to write up a proper wall of text that this thing deserves, I'll just leave one point here for now:

- Once you read The Outcast Dead, it becomes pretty clear - in my opinion anyway - that

Spoiler

the Emperor planed the Heresy to happen

Spoiler

as a final gambit to make the chaos gods show their cards so to speak and bring the millenia of confrontation between him and the chaos gods to one final culmination point

I'll leave it at that for now

[Lord Abaddon]

Well, here was my answer to Gorb

Spoiler

Chaos got pretty much everything right.

Which invokes the question why didn't the great Four make sure the Eisenstein got lost in the Warp permanently or at the very least make sure its journey either drags out to a millenium or make sure it pops out back where it started or far, far away from where it did, which is right in the path of the Phalanx. I figure only a being of the Emperor's power might have caused this, especially given how he calmed the path for Thor during the age of Apostasy, but this would, again, require his foreknowledge of the Heresy.

his guy's cosmic power was staggering - enough to go up against the Four Gods of Chaos and win (to a certain extent; it is often mentioned that he "stole" power from the Chaos Gods). The Chaos Gods can grant their followers power - it makes sense that the Emperor can do the same (to a more limited extent, under certain circumstances).

All the more reason for him to know what was going on. He couldn't have inspired a saint with visions, inspiration and protection blindly unless he a) had some idea of what was going on and b) had some mental or warp presence in the region.
I don't know whether the Emperor just had really good multitasking skills or there are parts of his power controlled by his subconscience but having faith open a conduit to his power somehow doesn't make as much sense to me when he's alive and walking around as it does when he's destroyed, bound to a giant psyk-conduit and has his full (un)divided attention on managing his domain. Not to mention that the region of space where he inspired a saint was obscured from the rest of the galaxy by warp storms, which also brings with itself additional question of how and why everything happened the way it did.

He loved his sons to a fault, and the fault was believing too much of them.

With all that love he could at least have dropped a hint of why he was retiring to his most beloved son, a warrior without peer, a diplomat supreme even if he stayed silent on his motivations to everyone else.

Also I feel that his Imperial Truth is another reason why he shouldn't care about indulging the growing cult with evidence of his divinity through inspiring one remembrancer unless his powers are so great they just automatically start shedding around whenever someone asks for them with enough faith.

And here's my answer when I read the spoiler posted by Phoenix

Spoiler

Oh

[Rukoth]

4. He made a mistake in not warning the Primarches, I feel. In some of the older Heresy-based texts, I think it explicitly mentions his regret and/or feelings of failure. I could be wrong there, however. As incredibly powerful as he is, he is not infallible. He is capable of making mistakes. He loved his sons to a fault, and the fault was believing too much of them.

Once you read The Outcast Dead, it becomes pretty clear - in my opinion anyway - that

Spoiler

To capitalize on this, yes, if you go read The Outcast Dead, things become a bit clearer, you get some direct viewings into the emperors head on the subject. And even that he admits to not being infallible like what has been says.

[Gorb]

@Lord Abbadon:

You are mistaking a collosal amount of power for a collosal amount of accuracy. The Emperor was not infallible (and technically, neither are the Chaos Gods). It's as simple as that.

Going on the appearance of Saints, it appears the Emperor can passively inspire his followers. Contrast this to the Chaos Champions which have to open up a mental link to their God(s) - though it is of note that Keeler had to experience some kind of mental bonding with the Emperor, perhaps akin to the Soul-binding process all astropaths undergo.

[Lord Abaddon]

You are mistaking a collosal amount of power for a collosal amount of accuracy. The Emperor was not infallible (and technically, neither are the Chaos Gods). It's as simple as that.

Going on the appearance of Saints, it appears the Emperor can passively inspire his followers. Contrast this to the Chaos Champions which have to open up a mental link to their God(s) - though it is of note that Keeler had to experience some kind of mental bonding with the Emperor, perhaps akin to the Soul-binding process all astropaths undergo.

One plausible conclusion this could lead to is that the Emperor's will isn't the same as and can work autonomously of the Emperor's knowledge, conscience and focus, which is to say that his power does his bidding even if he isn't fully aware of the fact. If will can be defined as such in such context.

[Rukoth]

Hm Abaddon if what you say is true I would call that real power, when your own power supercedes even your knowledge of what its doing on your behalf :P.