For some wierd reason, I got to thinking about death.

[Liljagare]

And, the insane reason as to why, is that, we as beings, need time as a reference to understand that we are alive and exist.. that things happen.

But, as we are dying and, when we are dead, at what point does our brain migrate between understanding that time is passing, into the phase of, passing, or, not getting that time is passing anymore?

Does our "self" at some point get stuck at not understanding that time is passing at some point?

Even if it doesn't, when we die, and are dead, time has no more meaning.

so.... wtf... there has to be a point betwen being alive and being dead, but, my thinking is, can our brain
reallly pass over that point, as time has no meaning anymore beyond the point of it not functioning anymore?

Imho, logically, when we die, we should get stuck, as our minds no longer register time.

[Akranadas]

When you are dead, you have the same cognitive capability as a rock. Your mind only exists because your body is alive, it doesn't go on pause when you die which is clearly evident from people who have had near death experiences.

[Belgarion]

I expect its like falling asleep only permanent without dreams

[Guilliman]

Think of it as powering down your computer. No more electrical impulses = no more thoughts. I'm not exactly sure what you mean with time. Our processes of keeping time(rs) are chemical functions in our brain, once the power is out they too seize to register.

[Trinity]

You don't have to disturb the brain very much for it to stop working properly even when you are alive.

[Danustar]

Right ^^
Time is a dimension of the cosmos that we experience as the relative separation of events or stimuli.
I just made that up .. but the point is that when you no longer have any sensory ability within the natural world , ie dead, you have no way of experiencing, and therefore measuring, time.

I suspect you idea or question hinges more on the "point between being alive and being dead". I'm not sure what assumptions you've made there. Either way, thinking about death is a very normal, if maybe unsettling, thing to do.

[OhJohnNo]

It always depresses me to think that one day, every single person I have ever caught a glimpse of in a large crowd or seen talking in forum threads is going to be dead.

[Nurizeko]

Can I be honest?

I place some tiny speck of hope, nothing drastic, nothing so big that it'd upset me if it wasn't true, but I do reserve a tiny slither of hope that omehow the human mind continues to exist in some fashion, if only because dying seems a bit shit tbh and I find it hard to fathom being self-considerate, being able to perceive and understand from my own little 'camera' and then suddenly that awareness just ceasing.

Somehow some little part of me still think sapience is special enough to transcend mere biology.

Even though I know the biology, I know the science and physics and reality of death and that it happens and that as far as we living are concerned we're gone.

I don't believe in ghosts but yeah.


It'd be pretty cool if sapience does go on in some function but as I said, only a tiny glimmer of possibility baed on nothing but some personal philosophical musings.

In my defence I've over-thought a lot of things in my life, but thanks to adulthood, depression at points, and the all attention consuming call of real life, I've been less prone to grand thinking. lol...

[LoCo]

I don't understand why people get so depressed about there being nothing after death.

Seems like a waste of a life if you get depressed when you think about how little there is. Would make more sense to be joyful of the time you do get and to make you want to do something more... not to sit around and be depressed.

Life is exciting because there is nothing after. This is all you get. Why spend that time being depressed?

[Vintage]

Which is precisely why I would live forever if I could. Maybe I'll live long enough for the technology to exist and be rich enough to afford it. I like Nurizeko would prefer to live on in some way after dying but I don't believe anything happens after you die. Maybe every several billion years the universe implodes and then resets itself and we all live our lives over again. If that's the case then if I die tomorrow I'll see the lot of you in several billion years.

[Belgarion]

If you think about the vastness of time and space and the confines of your tiny brain (no matter how wonderous a feat of chemical engineering it is) really does it matter if a bit of conciousness /soul or whatever goes on

[Vaarok]

Work with livestock and you realize the average person has a fucked perception of life, death, and such. Things die. Our culture has insulated us from it to such a degree it almost seems unnatural, but then again births are treated just as reverently. Things get born, things die, it's all part of a progression.

Humans instinctively try to fight entropy, but it's a losing battle.

[Nurizeko]

This thread is so emo.

[BananaMaster]

IMHO, human beings try to insulate themselves from the harsh reality of death by creating meaning through forming relationships amongst family, friends, religion, and culture. The pat on the back by your boss, coupled with the material wealth generated from your career gives a sense of well-being--that you've accomplished something of worth. All these things try to either bury or at the very least, hide the fact that you will die. This ominous feeling of instability, as if the ground below you just opened a chasm infinitely wide, carries on with you throughout your entire life. For example, when you were a kid, you probably wondered what death meant in your life. Probably thought of it as sleep. Years later, your in college, absorbing as much information as possible to prepare yourself for the inevitable future career. You establish relationships amongst friends--drinking, partying, fraternities/sororities/clubs, all of which are layers of meaningful relationships that you've grown accustomed to in your early life. Later on after college, you obtain your first real job and establish relationships between peers. You realize that your career is just a mask for what you really are, and deep down inside, there's something that cries out for more meaning. Basically, you're lonely, you get associated with someone special, a lover, and eventually get married. But even that doesn't end, the instability still lingers. You have kids, you pour out your love for your children, hoping to bury the dreadful feeling about death. Years later, when your children have grown up and when they've gotten married themselves, the sense of instability and loneliness persists, only this time its stronger. Your friends have changed, your children have different opinions regarding life, etc., all of which add-on to persistent feeling of dread. And at your old age, you are sick of change and how certain things persist never to change. On your death bed, you long for someone to be with you, the doctor/nurse, a family member that visits you on occasion before the inevitable. Those few people at your deathbed, are the last meaningful relationships you will ever have before you die.

Trying to explain death is like trying to explain what is the meaning of a "period" at the end of this sentence. Science tends to veer on the cynical; you die and your body is a regenerative tool for others to take advantage of in the form of fertilizer. Religion, well, depending on which one you choose, veers towards existential beliefs about life after death, which gives a certain sense of hope for the individual. I admire science for its willingness to explain things despite its cynical, and often meaningless interpretations that often are reasons for death rather than trying to explain the meaning of death. I admire religion for its straightforward intention of creating an outcome after death, despite the lack of concrete explanations. In the end, I find religion just simply more comforting, even if its insane when confronted with logic. Just accept the fact that some things are never meant to be explained, and enjoy the meaningful relationships in your life, for there will be none when you...die?

[Flagg]

If there was life after death, what would be the point in having a physical life in the first place? People all too often lead this life according to how their "eternal" life in the hereafter will be. What a sorry state of affairs.

When you die, that really is it. You probably are not consciously aware of your null existence so why worry? It probably is no different to turning off something like a calculator. I think deep down everyone feels this is the truth about why you die, which is why things like religion was made in the first place and why we're afraid of the dark still.

Whether a brain could be "turned back on" after brain death is another matter all together.

[Starblade]

If there was life after death, what would be the point in having a physical life in the first place?

Why do you need one?

[Flagg]

Are you asking why I need an afterlife or why I need an answer to the meaning of life?

The meaning of life is to survive and reproduce. Seeing as humans exist outside most of the pressures that most species have to endure to survive, we are afforded the luxury of enjoying our lives. Is that not enough?

[Starblade]

I asked why there needs to be a point to living.

The meaning of life is to survive and reproduce.

I'm glad the entirety of humanity agreed on that, I watched The Meaning of Life and it tried to tell me the meaning of life was some bullshit about a waiter or something.

[eliw00d]

I have always considered myself an atheist/agnostic, but over the years I have really begun to ponder things like this. I have often thought that death would be absolute, as has been mentioned earlier, and that I would simply cease to exist. I mean, nobody remembers anything before birth, so how would we know the difference after death? But, just living life and seeing what's out there begs the question: why are we here? Why does it feel like there is some sort of design behind it all? I do not believe in a god or gods, but at the same time I cannot simply deny that something could be behind the universe. These are all things we just cannot possibly find out until we die, and even then we would never be able to pass that knowledge on.

I remember reading an interpretation of life some time ago, where the guy came up with the idea that we are all one deity, or maybe multiple deities, who are immortal and omnipotent. Being immortal and omnipotent is boring, so this deity or these deities decide to become human to experience mortal life. By inhabiting a human body, the deity experiences life with no prior knowledge, memories or experiences - a clean slate. That way, each experience is different as they are raised by different families or environments. It's an interesting theory, at least. That's all we'll ever have about the afterlife... theories. Of course, some people find that lack of definition/absoluteness frightening and turn to religions to give them a quick and dirty explanation that gives them peace of mind.

I think it's best to keep an open mind and never stick to one possibility. It has helped me whenever I freak out about death. I mean, no one can say for certain what happens after death, it is impossible to know that. I don't find near death experiences to be extremely reliable, since every person has their own beliefs or interpretations of what they went through.

[Shoota Fodder]

I think the universe is just like a set of Russian Dolls. I mean, the Solar system looks strangely like an Atom... I bet if you zoom out far enough, the universe is just some guy, standing on a planet much like ours, trying to work out why he is here.

[Belgarion]

You need to read Douglas Adams

[Moe]

I think the universe is just like a set of Russian Dolls. I mean, the Solar system looks strangely like an Atom... I bet if you zoom out far enough, the universe is just some guy, standing on a planet much like ours, trying to work out why he is here.

Not really. The Rutherford model that you're referring to has planet-like orbits but that's about it, and we knew that it had massive flaws even before better, quantum theory based models came along. Forcing electrons on circular or elliptical planet-like orbits around the nucleus would have led to orbital decay due to Bremsstrahlung - in other words, the electrons would all collapse into the nucleus. A better model is that of an electron cloud, which looks nothing like a solar system.

I don't understand why people get so depressed about there being nothing after death.

To add to this, shouldn't those same people be depressed about all that nothingness that happened before they were born?

[Kirjava]

I dunno, I think it might be rational not to be depressed about having a finite lifespan but how many of us are truly rational? It's natural to be afraid of death, to hope that there's some way of avoiding it, hence why we have this whole notion of an afterlife in the first place. Even sceptical atheists can be unhappy about the notion of one day having to say goodbye to all this- I don't think there's anything unusual or even unhealthy in that, so long as it doesn't become crippling.

[LoCo]

But why does there have to be a meaning for life?

Does a table have to mean something in order to exist? It may have once been a tree, but now it isn't, does that have to mean something? If it must mean something, why can it not simply mean that it is now a table and not a tree?

Why does there have to be some grand purpose behind life? Can't it just mean that that's how things turned out?

Why is it natural to be afraid of death? What is there to fear? The unknown? Man has moved past the point where the unknown needs to scare us. Reasoning and philosophy has brought us to the point where what we don't know doesn't have to scare us, but instead can excite us, intrigue us. When I was five years old I was afraid of the dark. I've grown since then. I didn't stop fearing the dark because I learned what it was. I stopped fearing the dark because I accepted that while there might be something in the dark that would harm me, it didn't matter if I was scared of it or not. If it was going to harm me it would harm me whether I was scared of it or not.

I'm also aghast at the way people live their lives...

BananaMaster - How do you not just kill yourself to escape that torment? If you feel like that about life I honestly don't know what you are sticking around for. Now, I'm not saying go kill yourself. I'm simply wondering how you've made it this far with all that hanging over you. Perhaps a change of philosophy would do you a shit-ton of good.

Also, the meaning of a period at the end of a sentence is to indicate the end of a sentence and to notify the reader (if they are reading aloud) that they may pause and take a breath. It's there to illustrate and mimic the natural rhythms of speaking.

Death is the cessation of, and non-resumption of, life.

If death was anything more, it would apply to animals as well as humans. Animals are also alive, and they also die. The same with plants.

It's when arrogant humans come along and they assume that they are somehow different than every other form of life simply because their brains are more evolved that suddenly 'death' must be more complicated than the above because humans can... what? Build things? Beavers build, so do birds. Solve puzzles? Octopi can solve puzzles, so can rats, monkeys, dogs, etc. Feel emotions? Many animals have demonstrated such abilities themselves. Create art? All kinds of apes have done that, and animals produce 'things' that are aesthetically pleasing all the time. Ascribe meaning to things?... sure.

So because humans can ascribe meaning to things (which, lets be honest, animals can and do do too) suddenly everything has to have meaning? Pish.

eliw00d - It feels like there is "some sort of design behind it all" because of a number of things. You live in the US which is practically Middle Eastern when it comes to religion. With that amount of religious propaganda flying around you all day, I'd be surprised if you didn't get just a little bit influenced. You also get that feeling because of conformation bias. You think there is something more to it because you want there to be something more to it. It's that simple. Also, you assume that because there is life, life is important - life must have meaning otherwise what is the point of life. That's not very strong logic. Does my table have meaning? Or is it just a table? Why is my table not more square? Why does it have four legs instead of three? Why does it have three draws when four would be more useful? Why is there a black lamp on my table when nothing else in the whole room is black? It just doesn't make sense! There must be some meaning behind it right? It just begs the question right?

Wrong.

You say that it begs the question? Really? Your argument that there must be something more is based on a logical fallacy. Just because life is there doesn't mean anything except that life is there. It doesn't beg any questions. Life only needs meaning when one is dissatisfied with life just being life. Dissatisfaction leads to people looking for meaning. If you were satisfied then you would not feel a need to find meaning.

I put it to you that 'over the years' you have grown dissatisfied with your life which is the reason for you are attempting to ascribe meaning to life. Instead of trying to find meaning in life, work out what is making you dissatisfied and fix it.

[Belgarion]

^^^ yes this

[Shoota Fodder]

My comment wasn't entirely serious Moe. My point was merely 'if there is plan, it will be FAR to complex for man to comprehend'.

But yes, basically what LoCo says. I would never exclude the possibility of something after death or an organised universe, but frankly I don't care. My life is mine and I plan to live it because as far as I am aware, it ends when I die. It sort of gives me a drive and determination to be as happy as I can and make other people feel happy as well for the time that I am here. Personally, I think we just 'are'. We are 'here'. Where is 'here'? Fuck knows, but that's where we are so LETS DO THIS.

[Moe]

LoCo your table metaphor is pretty bad, because a table was designed for a specific purpose. It has four legs instead of three because it's a decent compromise between stability, structural integrity, looks and various economic factors such as production costs. Somebody, or rather a lot of people, spent time and effort coming up with that particular design, comparing it to others that ultimately got rejected and so on. The table exists because there's a demand for tables, and a capability to supply tables, and so on. The lamp on it is black probably because someone chose a black lamp, because they liked the color or the looks or maybe because they're college students and the cheapest lamp they could find on craigslist happened to be black.

I don't disagree with your main point, but I think you're better off using a rock or something for your metaphor.

[Belgarion]

The difference between a 3 leg table and a 4 leg is preference. Yes a rock is a rock is a rock but is it igneous by design or by accident. Me I prefer dark rocks but its just an opinion

[absauston]

Playing devils advocate here.

Why is it natural to be afraid of death? What is there to fear?

Perhaps some people didn't get to accomplish what they wanted. Maybe life took some turns that set them back, perhaps permanently. The fear that there isn't enough time in the world to experience as much as they want. You can claim dissatisfaction, but there are elements in life beyond one's control.

Those are the answers I get from people who are afraid of death.

Reasoning and philosophy has brought us to the point where what we don't know doesn't have to scare us, but instead can excite us, intrigue us.

I am not sure if this a blanket statement, so I will address it as if it is. Do you fear a nuclear holocaust? I can't say I haven't experienced it, however I don't think there is enough reasoning and philosophy in the world to excite or intrigue me.

I think mankind craves meaning for the same reason it craves order, for peace of mind and "wholeness". This has been going on since the dawn of mankind. Searching for meaning and purpose perhaps brings a person to a whole and an understanding of why things are the way they are (which kind of reminds me of Dave Matthews Band's song Gaucho). This is especially true for things that are out of their control.

[LoCo]

absauston: If one fears not having enough time, then one fears not having enough time, not death. None of what you said is a fear of death. If you fear not having enough time, then acknowledge what that fear is and do something about it instead of pigeonholing it into a nebulous "fear of death" which is something you can't confront and then not doing anything about it because you can't beat death.

It's not a blanket statement. It's about fearing the unknown. We know 'nuclear holocaust'. We've been able to project what that would be like for a long time now. We've seen the effects of nukes, we've built bigger ones, we understand the science behind it. We know what would happen in a nuclear holocaust. It's not the 'unknown' that is feared there, but the known. It's rational to fear things that can harm you and that you can avoid. You can't avoid death. So to fear it is counter productive (your energy is better used in other places) and actually does you harm if you allow that fear to grow too big.

Also, many people are intrigued by nuclear holocausts. There are movies and books about them. There are plans and theories and great thought experiments and a lot of time and energy involved in the idea of a nuclear holocaust. I'll even go so far as to say that you may have even enjoyed a movie/book about a nuclear holocaust. So don't tell me it doesn't excite or intrigue.

By your final statement you've just classed a lot of people outside of 'mankind'. Just because you require nebulous constructs such as 'order' or 'meaning' or 'wholeness' (what the hell is that anyway?), doesn't mean that all humans require them. I have what I consider 'peace of mind' and 'wholeness'. My life is ordered just the way I like it (Granted, there is more I want but I don't require any more meaning from things than they already have).

My purpose is to live the best life I know how. Any other 'purpose' would be imposed upon me from outside, and I refuse to allow any outside force to impose any 'purpose' on me. That's part of how I live my life as best I know how.

I can understand a quest for knowledge. I can champion that. I can take part of that.

But a quest for meaning seems to me to be a quest for an end. Once you find your 'meaning' what do you do?

If you were to walk out your door tomorrow and found a little package that held the 'meaning of life' that you claim to be seeking (and you know that it is the meaning of life), what's your next step? To let that meaning define you? To eschew any responsibility and sense of self and give it over to that 'meaning of life'? Would you dedicate your whole being to that meaning?

Or would you follow your own path and not the one imposed on you by what ever entity left you that little package?

And then, as a final shot at rational thought, what if the 'meaning of life' is simply to live your life as best as you know how?

--- If you aren't doing that already, you aren't living a good life by your very own subjective qualification on a best life. But that's besides the point. ---

But if that were the 'meaning of life', would you then change the way you live your life, just to conform to something you might not even enjoy? That 'peace of mind and wholeness' that you strive for... are you sure that finding the meaning of life is going to give you that? What if you don't like the meaning of life? What if it goes against everything you stand for?

Or have you already decided (completely arbitrarily) that the 'meaning of life' is good?

Meaning is subjective. A box to you means a wrapping to protect goods. To a little child it means a toy of some kind.

As a cognitive being, you should understand that a single unifying 'meaning' for 'life' is not possible. Moe's life means something very different than yours does. Mine means different things to different people. Just like yours does.

But instead of accepting that, you want an appeal to a higher authority. You want some nebulous being to set down the law and say that everyone's life has the same meaning and that meaning is here.

Forgive me if I don't buy into that.

It's my life, I ascribe my own meaning to it. Nobody else can.

[roflmao]

Funny how many people are pontificating on something they literally know nothing about.

The truth? I haven't the slightest clue.

[SpitfireMK461]

The truth? I haven't the slightest clue.

My belief is that what happens in death is not something we can ever know until we reach it, thus there is no reason to consider it or worry about it.

[roflmao]

Although what's interesting is that if you die and there's nothing after, you won't know that there was nothing after because you won't have a consciousness to verify that there was nothing after.

Therefore, if there is truly nothing after, then probably not even dead people will ever know that there was nothing after, they're dead.

So not only us living people haven't the slightest clue. There's a good chance that even the dead haven't a slightest clue. Ha.

[SpitfireMK461]

But if there is nothing, then there is no reason to look, thus justifying that view.

[Black]

To add to this, shouldn't those same people be depressed about all that nothingness that happened before they were born?

On the contrary. Time reversal is an anti-unitary operator, so clearly everyone should be glad about all the nothingness that happened before they were born.

</tomato>

[roflmao]

Will I die on these forums if I make your signature my own, Black? Is there life after?

[Starblade]

There's forums heaven, where all the senior members and anyone who gave us money go, forums purgatory, where the normals go, then forums hell where the banned posters go, lying face up in a frozen lake of spam posts.

[Danustar]

The meaning of life is to survive and reproduce

And yet humans strive for more than this, routinely sacrificing personal gain for a purpose beyond their own self-preservation and aggrandisement. Certainly survival is an instinctual trait but it is equally matched by a need for worth and value. LoCo doesn't just want to live a biological existence .. he wants to live the best life he can. I expect this is not satisfactorily summed up only by dying old with lots of children.

We are a bag of chemicals with some very strong instincts that fly in the face of a purely survival-based operation.
Just saying.

[GeoffS]

I expect this is not satisfactorily summed up only by dying old with lots of children.

What would be wrong with someone wanting that to be their life?

[Danustar]

The sum total reason for living? I'm sure I've never met such a person.
More accurately describes a coral reef.

[GeoffS]

That's not an answer to my question. If somebody wanted that to be their life, what would be wrong with it?

[LoCo]

Nothing would be wrong with it.

I'm the only one who can give meaning to my own life. Someone else must make their own meaning.

But pursuing 'the meaning of life' is not something that can work. It's an unreachable goal that promotes nothing but dissatisfaction and failure.

I suppose one might go so far as to say "I'm searching for the meaning of my life". That would be fine I guess. It wouldn't be them looking for something that they would then force on me. "Oh, I found the meaning of life! That means anyone who doesn't do such and such is wasting their life!" So sure, find your own meaning. But it can not be "The meaning of Life".

I would argue with people like that still that they better not search for too long or life will pass them by while they try and find their meaning. Why not just live as best you can? Wouldn't that, on balance, be the better legacy to leave behind? Would you rather people said "He found his life's meaning" or "He lived the best life he could"?

If your definition of 'best life' includes finding some philosophical meaning, then good on you. Mine includes loving my wife, being comfortable with myself, my morals and my choices, working to make my wife's life (and mine) as enjoyable as I can. If that means children down the line, cool. If it means sometimes I come here and debate with people, great. If that means that I've found my 'meaning of life', wonderful. But I won't waste time looking for it. If meaning finds me that's great. In the mean time I'll just keep trying the best I can.

PS: I think I'm starting to get a little preachy here so I'll just leave and only come back if I can input something that isn't just repeating myself.

[BananaMaster]

BananaMaster - How do you not just kill yourself to escape that torment? If you feel like that about life I honestly don't know what you are sticking around for. Now, I'm not saying go kill yourself. I'm simply wondering how you've made it this far with all that hanging over you. Perhaps a change of philosophy would do you a shit-ton of good.

I'm also aghast that your willing to make quick judgements about myself by a single post. Loco, I've read most of your posts in the last 10 years or so. You haven't changed a bit. It helps being less obtuse, so I'll just leave it at that. And no, I don't want you to make a come back with an omnislash post.

As for "my" philosophy, it's actually a conglomeration of philosophies that led to some of my own beliefs about life and why we do things besides the scientific obvious. The period, if for you it's just a pause at the end of the sentence, well, that's just boring isn't it? My last post was to present how from the last 28 years of my living, I've come to see how my relatives have aged and refused to accept change. Change comes in the form of meaningful relationships. It's those meaningful relationships in your short-life span that gives a sense of worth in your life. As horrible as the "feeling" of death may be, it's reassuring that there is something comforting at the end of the tunnel. Each of those relationships are meaningful, but in time they do lose their potency and like for many people, become stumbling blocks to their next "stage" in life. Accepting change helps alleviate the painful process of growing old. At least for me, religion provides that reassurance, and meaningful relationships helps suppress the dreadful feeling of death even further.

[DeafMute]

Is roughly how I see these sort of life/death chit chats.

[LoCo]

BananaMaster: If your post was honest, then it isn't exactly a 'quick judgement'. I responded to the information in your post. Also, very clever. You couldn't respond to my post so instead you decided to bring up my sordid past, claim I haven't changed (in ten years no less), throw in a free insult - because why wouldn't you? - and then declare that you don't want me to respond. All of that brilliant reply then gets followed by a cheap shot about 'omnislashing'.

But here's the thing: I don't omnilash. You, being the connoisseur of my posts that you claim, should know that. But it's okay. I mean, it's not like the gist of your reply is based on you knowing about how I post and my posting history is it? Or that you made any bold claims and threw around any insults all based off what is blatantly false information.

As for your argument about change... it seems to me that people are more resistant to change because they believe that there is still time. That time that they believe in is based on the idea that after they die they will still have an eternity. So any change can take place then. Where as people who don't believe in some sort of eternal life after death need to do what they can in the limited time they have, which requires constant change, re-evaluation and new direction. It's like cooking. To end up with a great dish at the end, the person with a limited amount of time needs to rush around, doing one job after another, and if something doesn't work like they want they must adapt (ie: change) because they don't have time to try again, or fix it. Where as the person who has all the time in the world? Well, they're just going to keep plodding down the same path, if their dish doesn't turn out right, they'll just try the same dish again. I mean, it's not like they're going to run out of time is it?

Also, forgive me if I'm wrong here but, it seems that your counter argument to me explaining what a period does (which you implied couldn't be adequately explained) is that it is "boring"? Your entertainment or enjoyment of the explanation doesn't change the facts. Were you under the impression that the world existed to keep you entertained and that anything that didn't entertain you was wrong?

Back to change now: Change comes in many different forms, not just in 'meaningful relationships' (another nebulous term... what do you mean by that?). My sense of worth comes from myself. If you require outside approval than that's you. But that's not everyone and certainly not me. You say "as horrible as the 'feeling' of death is"... and again, you aren't explaining what you mean (feeling of death?) so I'm going to have to assume things. Also, who said death was horrible? Did Mr Death call you a bad name? Nasty, mean Death! Death isn't an entity. Death is not moral or ethical. Death is not kind or harsh. Death is just the end of life. That is all. Any other attributes you assign to it are of your own making. This goes back to my original statement that you seem to have a lot of issues. How do you live with all that? It sounds bleak. I can't understand how you can live like that:

"deep down inside, there's something that cries out for more meaning"
"you pour out your love for your children, hoping to bury the dreadful feeling about death"
"All these things try to either bury or at the very least, hide the fact that you will die"
"sick of change and how certain things persist never to change"

It's no wonder you need the comfort of religion. That post is so full of angst and pain which is why I expressed my surprise at it. The change in philosophy I was talking about was looking at life differently. Instead of looking at it as hopeless mire of depression, pain, loneliness, a constant scramble to find some love, love others and stave off the eventual pitiful, pathetic death... instead of all that, why not look at it as an adventure, or your brief moment to try and make humanity a little brighter, to leave something wonderful behind for those that follow? Your time to shine, your turn to laugh, to go skinny dipping, to embrace your friends, to build up a lifetime collection of warm fuzzy feelings that you share with others. To get to your death bed and be proud of the life you lived and feel happy about it all. Or at the very least contentment.

Instead you want to just get through the slog and into that happy afterlife. I'll say it again, I don't know how you don't just hurry it up. I suppose you could keep on going for those moments where you insult others just because you can't answer them. I pity you, and I'm sorry. I know it isn't a wonderful feeling to have others pity you.

[Danustar]

If somebody wanted that to be their life, what would be wrong with it?

Nothing. In asmuch as there is nothing wrong with a banana who wants to be an astronaut.

[BananaMaster]

My posts aren't suppose to be based on either a strict logical dissection. If you want a serious analysis and explanation, I could give you a few sources to read and help you understand where I'm coming from. In fact, I think I'll just do that. Sorry, not all of us can prioritize every question given to them.

Loneliness: Human Nature and the Need for Social Connection
John T. Cacioppo

Psychoanalysis (Author? Can't remember from the top of my head, but there is one particular author that discusses it in detail regarding both the topic of death and the uncanny. Fortunately, there are many sources to draw upon concerning psychoanalysis.)

Did Mr Death call you a bad name? Nasty, mean Death! Death isn't an entity.

Frankly I'm a bit appalled there is a lack of empathy on this topic coming from you. There's a lot of people in this world that do need religion to help cope with problems in their life. I'm not saying it's the only solution, but hey it's worth a try right? IMHO, I think religion is a way in which people can associate themselves with like minded individuals, and form friendships, and if needed, create solutions when confronted with personal problems. I apologize if the "jibe" turned out to be a serious insult, but hey, take it easy alright? No need to reply to my post, I think I've overstayed my welcome here.

[GeoffS]

Nothing. In asmuch as there is nothing wrong with a banana who wants to be an astronaut.

So if there is nothing wrong with it, why are you so judgmental and dismissive about it? What is it about living a long time and having lots of kids that you find so bad as a life goal?

Frankly I'm a bit appalled there is a lack of empathy on this topic coming from you.

I haven't seen any lack of empathy from LoCo in this thread. Quite the opposite in fact. So far he is one of the least judgmental posters.

[Danustar]

why are you so judgmental and dismissive about it? What is it about living a long time and having lots of kids that you find so bad as a life goal?

Didn't I just finish saying there's nothing wrong with it? My comments aren't a judgment on the subject of hypothetical, they are a judgement on validity of the hypothetical itself.

It's unlike you to troll so I'll assume you genuinely misunderstood me. I'm not talking about living a long time and having lots of kids as a life goal

The sum total reason for living?

I paraphrased someone who said life was (only) about survival and reproduction. long life = survival and lot's of kids = reproduction.

Those things are great and bring with them a lot of gratification - not because your whole life's purpose is to get be really, really old and have contributed to many, many new humans, but because long life and children facilitate the deeper human drives such as personal endeavour and loving relationships. The former would not be "bad" but neither is it a real representation of the human experience.

[Flagg]

Because when you strip away all the TV, all the BS Apple products, reality TV shows, what we know about the universe around us, we are still animals. We still cant survive without food and water if it was denied to us for a week. Whether you like children or not, most people have families, Governments like people to have families.

Everything is a series of cycles. We die, and something else benefits from this. Humans seem to think we're beyond basic instincts that govern the human race. What is a person compared to an ant in the grand scale of schemes. Your life is just as important to you as the ants is to it. We might exist outside the sphere of ecology where we dont have predators, we live way longer than we're supposed to, we can avoid a lot of external and internal factors that would be fatal to an animal, but really....life is about surviving one day to the next. That's it.

And then we die. And really, death is the one mystery that will probably always elude the human race and really the one subject that no human being on earth is qualified to talk about because no one has a clue what happens when we die and the only way you'll know is when you do die and from the looks of it, it's a one way ticket and there is no way to message anyone back.