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The Alpharius Heresy

  1. #1
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    The Alpharius Heresy v0.3 (updated 1/11)

    Just updated. I've fleshed out much. I have all the Primarchs worked out and will add more as I get time.
    Things are still not set in stone, so please feel free to comment on what is here. I am more than open to making changes, whether major or minor, if they are of benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Original Premise
    I am posting this here, as well as on other forums, as I want to get the widest views possible. I know there used to be many great fluff peeps here (many of who I rated much higher than those from other forums) but I have no idea who is around now. Either way, it doesn't take much to post here too.


    Basically I have always loved thinking about the idea of other Primarchs leading the Heresy and how they would have gone about it. I had been throwing around ideas for a while before being show to the Dornian Heresy stuff here on Bolter & Chainsword (woo it's awesome). The idea of a different type of Heresy is something I think is great, offering vastly different ways of playing out. The one Primarch that stands out, in terms of interest, is Alpharius. Compared to the others I believe his to be of the greatest intrigue because of his situation. Being the last found he doesn't have the relationships to play on, nor hugely effective ways of pulling strings; however, being the strategic mastermind he is, there as so many really unique ways he can get things rolling.

    The basic "rule" (aka more guideline where needed) is that I want to keep the same basic timeline and progression of the original 40k. Unlike the Dornian Heresy stuff I am wanting to keep background changes minimal, thus putting Alpharius in the same "world" that Horus was in. The only changes I want to make are from when Alpharius was actually chosen, meaning all the growing up of the Primarchs, their finding and so forth all remains the same, as Alpharius wasn't there to alter any of that.


    Overview


    Alpha Legion

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    Blood Angels

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    Dark Angels

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    Death Guard

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    Emperor’s Children

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    Imperial Fists

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    Iron Hands

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    Iron Warriors

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    Night Lords

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    Raven Guard

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    Salamanders

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    Sons of Horus

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    Space Wolves

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    Thousand Sons

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    Ultramarines

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    White Scars

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    Word Bearers

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    World Eaters

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    This section is more detailed, but still not put into proper writing or anything. It is just the ideas as they get more fleshed out, as the above it just the skeleton still.

    The First Heretic

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    Alpharius

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    Horus

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    The Secret War

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    Version 0.1

    v0.1








    I shall be posting more; however, I am typing it up and it is taking time... please read and comment
    Last edited by MooFreaky; 1st Nov 12 at 6:14 AM.

  2. Tabletop Senior Member  #2
    Professional Gunman Dooks Dizzo's Avatar
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    I like the idea that Alpharius turns traitor and Omegon remains loyal. Which may actually be happening.

    But Alpharius wouldn't turn because of anything so petty as being mad at Guilliman. It would be far more likely that he turns because of the discovery of some greater and more terrible truth.

    Finding out that the Emperor intends to execute all of the primarchs at the close of the crusade because he has sussed out that some of them may turn on him for example.

    Even better, REALLY get inside the head of the Alpha legion.

    The Emperor devines that a schism is coming and half of his sons will turn against him but Chaos has clouded his sights as to who exactly it will be. For whatever reason he knows only for sure that the Alpha legion remains loyal. So he contacts Alpharius and asks him to start a civil war to draw out the disloyal elements. Alpharius is to lead them to their ultimate doom.

    Insert shit goes bad. (Omegon really does fall for example.)
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  3. #3
    Member Exetus's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to rain on a parade, but you might want to look to the BolterandChainsword forums. They have a pdf called the Dornian Heresy which has Rogal Dorn as the arch-traitor and a lot of similar themes.http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/i...owtopic=200543
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  4. Tabletop Senior Member  #4
    Professional Gunman Dooks Dizzo's Avatar
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    Exetus, Moo referenced the Dornian Heresy.

  5. #5
    Member Exetus's Avatar
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    Dammit Dooks, he did and I don't know how I missed that!
    *facepalms in epic failure*

  6. #6
    Member Claw of Lorek's Avatar
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    Idk what's the point of editing Already accepted lore. More power to you I guess...

    Alpha Legion is a fascinating subject nevertheless. Are they true traitors(a la Black Legion/Iron Warriors) or are they actually defending Imperium in the most unorthodox way possible(by embracing Chaos itself!)? They could be more Extreme version of Legio Damno(maybe they even share their geneseed-LOTS of thoughts to ponder over). Then there is Alpharius/Omegon confusion. All in all, there are lots of topics to cover on Alpha Legion front.

  7. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #7
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
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    This is going to be rougher than I liked; I think the premise has great merit (though I've recently re-read Legion and I love how perfectly-suited as a Loyalist the Alpha Legion are). However, here is my criticism:
    • How did Lorgar and/or Erebus and/or Kor Phaeron manage to corrupt Alpharius? They are deployed nowhere near each other for the vast majority of the Crusade, as far as I can work out from the novels. Work required here to explain.
    • Magnus being outright destroyed is dumb, and I don't like it. Same goes with Peturabo being turned just because he's a douche (which he, of course, is). These either need significantly more fleshing-out or reworking, in my opinion.
    • Fulgrim falling to Chaos is cheap and re-using an already-complex laid-out situation that only happened because Ferrus was loyal. No way would that work out without the Laer blade's long-term effect(s) on Fulgrim.
    Everything seems far too catastrophic for the loyal side. I realise there are several Primarches unaccounted for, but this - as it stands - is a superficial reworking based on your likes/dislikes for certain Legions (see: Space Wolves, Peturabo, Magnus) in addition to re-using whatever existing Horus Heresy plot points you consider neat (see: Ferrus Manus and/or Fulgrim). I hope you can expand on this idea and refine it - it has great potential!

    Things I like/love: Ferrus Manus' fall/conversion, the Ork Waaagh! setup (all of it), Space Wolf corruption (I just disagree with how the Sons are then handled) and any Legion you have covered that I haven't mentioned.

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  8. #8
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    Gorb. Absolutely, it is just the underlying concepts that have not been restructured as of yet. It is the bare bones of ideas that then need to be added to and refined to bring everything together. That said things like "well they weren't deployed near each other" is irrelevant, because that is adjustable. Alpha Legion and the Word Bearers can be brought together, or even just have Erebus working away from his own Legion. I need to add a lot of depth to Alpharius' fall, it is just the bare bones underliers there at the moment.

    Much of the rest isn't based on who I do and do not like, actually. For example, I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE the Thousand Sons (they are one of my favourite Legions); however, after playing with the idea of Alpharius dealing with the Heresy I wondered how he would deal with it. Which part of the follow up do you disagree with? The being forgiven?? That plays on me a bit too and I am thinking of ways to fix that, perhaps removing the warning being sent and instead having the Wolves being sent for another reason (though what could be big enough to warrant the Wolves going there??)

    Perturabo doesn't have much consideration at the moment, I am more basing his turn on the fact that he just doesn't get along with his brothers and that most of them think he is a douchebag (and he thinks similarly of them) rather than ME thinking he is a douchebag.

    As to Fulgrim, after discussing a bit of it on Bolter and Chainsword I agree with you. I am looking at other possibilities. I do like Ferrus being the fallen, but perhaps Fulgrim goes with him. Perturabo could stay loyal, creating an uneasy situation with Dorn.

    The chaotic nature of the loyalists is exactly what I am going for (early on) where they are split up, knocked down and Horus killed off almost immediately. I then plan on doing work on their regrouping and defending themselves. Though I don't want to go over the top.

    Other changes in the pipeline are:
    Omegon will not doppleganger Horus, instead he will be the one leading the operations to create and manipulate the Waaagh, as well as the campaign to show up Guilliman.


    Also Sanguinius has a little added...

    Sanguinius
    After the corruption of the Space Wolves, there is great concern about the dangers of mutation. Sanguinius' wings are a visible sign of mutation, something his brothers would come to hold against him. With some well chosen words Lorgar and Alpharius are able to isolate Sanguinius enough. Dorn, who is adamant about doing things the "right" way, being "clean" and "proper" is the most outspoken regarding concerns with Sanguinius.
    El'Johnson, concerned with rumblings within his own Legion, is happy to point the finger at Sanguinius also, directing attentions away from his own issues. The Primarchs are divided thanks to Alpharius and Lorgar's dabblings. Alpharius plays on Curze's paranoia and draws him to the conclusion that this mutation is the probable source of his terrible visions. Worked into a rage Curze attacks Sanguinius, beating the Blood Angels Primarch black and blue, ripping the wings from his back and taking mouthfuls of flesh from his body. This action unleashes a rage within Sanguinius, he beats Curze to within inches of his life and awakens the Black Rage within his Legion.
    As the other Primarchs discover the brawl they try to pull off the mutilated Sanguinius, but he tries to fight them too.
    When Alpharius turns, Khorne uses Sanguinius' rage to ensnare the Blood Angels and take them as his servants.

  9. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #9
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
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    What I dislike is Magnus getting ripped limb-from-limb without question. Simply put, he would have been in a far better mindset to combat the Wolves - allow me to extrapolate along your timeline, assuming A Thousand Sons is relatively secure material to source from:

    Without the manipulation by Chaos, Magnus is not isolated from his peers. The demonic tricksters that invaded Nikea may actually not to the same degree. The Thousand Sons could be more visibly reinforced against the dangers of the Warp.

    (heck I'd like to see the Council of Nikea redone a bit; concessions given to those against the psykers, but the Emperor taking Magnus into his confidence. I've always thought that that was the sensible way to go about things; the Dornian equivalent strikes me as being dumb the other way, compared to the default Heresy being dumb in the way that it facilitates the Heresy)

    Certainly, Magnus is not as morose/expecting the divine retribution of the Wolves as he is in A Thousand Sons. He would be ready for their battle - he would be ready for the duel with Russ.

    Additionally, intentionally unleashing the Curse of the Wulfen ranks among the most dumb things a Legion of prenaturally-intelligent farseeing psykers could ever, ever do. If Magnus can see Alpharius' fall, he can account for Alpharius' spy network. He can realise the manipulation in such events - it's why Horus couldn't turn him. It's likely why Horus never bothered - Tzeentch had his own designs (and they came very close to not working out).

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    The problem with the corruption of Alpharius is not simply the distance of space or the difference in time. The problem is exactly as you have said it - they're a new Legion, they're relatively unexposed to the other Legions and are inherently distrustful of outsiders. Crafting a scenario whereby Phaeron and/or Erebus can corrupt the Legion (perhaps through Lorgar, using the Primarch sibling connection) needs a lot of care and attention simply because it wouldn't work as well as it did for Horus (and even then they needed an anathame). Horus was the magnanimous warrior-diplomat who worked tirelessly to keep his brothers happy or at least informed. He would always have time for someone like Lorgar.

    Alpharius? Not so much.

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    Additionally, the anathame is likely to kill Horus outright. That is what it was designed to do, in absence of the intervention by the Chaos Gods. So either he gets hit by it and dies, or doesn't get hit by it and Alpharius attempts to outwit him in other ways (though I would love an alternate reality where Horus actually gets the chance to do good. He dies in the Dornian equivalent as well).

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    With regards to the loyalists - this is your baby, but remember that after certain loyalist Primarches are beaten or killed outright, you have to somehow balance the Battle for Terra where the corrupted Primarches would pretty much sweep across the loyalist forces unless met by one of their brothers. This is a reversal of the actual Heresy where people like Sanguinius fought Kabanda, Lord of Bloodthirsters. Chaos has all of that on their side, which is why I'm never a fan of killing of loyalist Primarches from the start. They are needed later on, if only to die/be savaged at the hands of named Greater Daemons or fallen Primarches.

  10. #10
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    What I dislike is Magnus getting ripped limb-from-limb without question. Simply put, he would have been in a far better mindset to combat the Wolves - allow me to extrapolate along your timeline, assuming A Thousand Sons is relatively secure material to source from:

    Without the manipulation by Chaos, Magnus is not isolated from his peers. The demonic tricksters that invaded Nikea may actually not to the same degree. The Thousand Sons could be more visibly reinforced against the dangers of the Warp.
    Magnus was manipulated by Chaos still. He was the target of Tzeench (just as in a Thousand Sons) and lead down the path he was now. It was only the intervention of Nurgle that stopped Magnus ending up the same as previously.
    So Magnus is expecting the retribution as he just destroyed the Emperor's project and endangered Terra itself by allowing daemonic corruption of the webway project. He can see that he isn't as in control and still has the same feelings as in a Thousand Sons, wanting to take his punishment.
    Magnus surviving though is definitely something I am considering... unaware that he was so close to becoming Tzeench's servant.

    I do like the idea about the concessions regarding Nikea, that could be a good source for why Magnus and his Legion were allowed back into the fold after such an action. The concessions can allow for the use of psykers, but with limitations. Magnus still broke these rules vastly with his psychic warning and destroyed the webway project, allowed the daemonic infestation etc. However, given what happened with the Wolves the urgency of his message can be understood as he is proven correct in his fears that Chaos was seeking to corrupt the Primarchs.
    When Alpharius does switch sides he is vindicated (though still set to face punishment for his action) and allowed to fight for Terra.

    Upon the conclusion of the Heresy, he places the Emperor within the Golden Throne and takes his seat atop it. He is then permanently imprisoned as he keeps the Astrominican going (instead of the Emperor) and helps maintains the Emperor's life force. Thoughts?


    Releasing the Wulfen Curse isn't unintelligent at all, IMO. It is turning this dangerous legion into mindless beasts. Yes they are still a danger as they are uncontrolled; however, that is easier for the Thousand Sons to deal with as they don't have the leadership and strategic benefits that the Wolves had. Plus they have downtime during their transformation, allowing many to be cut down. An enemy that throws themselves blindly against a magic backed Thousand Sons line would be easy pickings. Especially as in their beastial state they would cut down their own Imperial allies, as well as become targets of their allies.


    Tzeench still has his own designs, but Nurgle's action stop that occurring (we are told in Chaos fluff that Nurgle often foils Tzeench's schemes, in that they are natural rivals of one another). Alpharius just wanted the two Legions to wipe each other out, instead one is all but annihilated and the other switches to his allegiance (or will do, once he declares himself at a later date). So a win-win plan turns into a bigger win than was ever expected.


    Regarding Lorgar/Erebus and Alpharius...
    You are correct and it is an area that needs fleshing out. Remember, this is just the basic skeleton and still needs to be added to. What areas specifically need working on are helped in being determined with this type of feedback. I have been thinking about this and have come up with an idea. Basically we know that in the "real" 40k fluff Alpharius has issues with Guilliman and Dorn. Play this up further and increase hostilities. After being reprimanded twice by Guilliman, Alpharius continues to do his own thing and becomes more extreme with it. This creates increased hostility with both Dorn and Guilliman, creating a very hateful relationship and driving Alpharius away. The fact that none of the other Primarchs defend him makes him incredibly sour, he sees them as suckups to both Dorn and Guilliman who are holding influence that they don't deserve as they aren't bigger or better than the others. Where do they get off making such claims?

    Horus, in his wisdom, suggests that Lorgar work with Alpharius. Lorgar had similar issues in the past after he became too pious toward the Emperor. He had great issues with Guilliman and struggled with understanding his place in the Imperium. Yet he had since become exemplary in his conduct and way of waging war. All issues appeared resolved. Horus believed Lorgar could offer advice to the rebellious and unhappy Alpharius, bringing him back into the fold. Instead Lorgar took Alpharius further away, eventually leading to his corruption. This works well for Lorgar too as he HATES Guilliman and is only too happy to find common ground on this fact (something Alpharius would find likable about Lorgar too).


    Regarding the Anathame...
    Why? There is no reason this blade has to kill Horus outright. It is an alternate universe and not everything must be identical. The blade wounds Horus terribly. It's corrupted nature twists Horus and allows the Gods to play with his mind. They cannot turn him, but they drive him mad. When he heals, the mental issues remain. They improve over time and he will recover, but it gives Alpharius a window in which to get himself together, to become the seemingly benevolent brother who helps hide Horus' condition (the Sons of Horus would absolutely fear Guilliman or Dorn getting wind of the problem, and trust Alpharius would never run to those two) while instead using it to manipulate Horus' hand to achieving Alpharius' end.



    Regarding the loyal Primarchs, I have considered this. As I've said it is only early ideas with who goes where and how they end up. I really want to emphasise that Alpharius is less about completely destroying Loyalist assets and instead creating vast confusion and hitting key targets. He wouldn't be able to round up the masses of mortal allies that Horus did, nor wipe out weapons, troops etc to the same degree. Instead I want him to have the Primarchs mistrustful of each other, or having killed a few of them (while generally leaving the Legions unscathed - excepting the Thousand Sons, who are all but wiped out). Forces still remain, but leadership is hit hard.
    That said, I want to avoid too many deaths. I am coming around on Magnus' death (I like the concept I mentioned earlier in this post) but I want the initial strike to take casualties in key places or tear the Primarch's relationships apart.
    Then the survival of the Loyalist forces is a a the efforts of the few, busting themselves to keep everything together. Players like Dorn (and Perurabo??? Could be interesting the two of them together) desperately holding many forces together (as other leaders are compromised, assassinated or destroyed in surgical strikes) while others struggle to overcome their own personal daemons (ala Guilliman... who I find incredibly boring, so would actually enjoy having some personal issues to get over).

  11. #11
    The whole Russ consorting with Gods scenario sounds pretty stretched to be honest given his track record of not just despising but actively opposing any hint of sorcery in any scenario.
    IMO a more plausible option would be his subordinates doing so against his wishes due to ignorance (probably Terra-born Wolf officers which would be less, well, indoctrinated into the whole anti-sorcery thing and be more pragmatic - or naive about it) picking between Khorne and Nurgle (i.e. "let me teach you to use your gift" and "let me "heal" you").
    Russ would probably make a beeline for the remains of his legion to either justify himself to his brothers or destroy the corrupted, ending up bleeding his loyal portion of his Legion white and shattering the corrupted into small warbands.

  12. #12
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    He's not consorting with sorcery, as such. He is offered a way to stop sorcery. The voice that, when you are in ungodly amounts of pain, says "I hate sorcery too and can offer you a way to stop it while also saving you and your men", is that not a pretty juicy offer?
    Especially as Russ doesn't despise sorcery completely, he just wants it tempered. Russ and his wolves know and actively state that such power is necessary (and actively use it themselves), as long as it is within limitations and used for essential purposes.

    The goal I am aiming for is...
    Russ is desperate. Not only to save himself but because he is being destroyed by what he loathes most, excessive magical usage (and absolutely humiliated, his Legion made to look like fools and their secret exposed. He doesn't know if they will be expunged for having hidden this secret. It is a clear mutation and something the Wolves have hidden since forever). Can even infer that many of their trials on Fenris are a basis for Nurgle's service... they are constantly testing the constitutional limitations, pushing their bodies to the extreme in terms of what they can sustain and believe they can push through any form of pain barrier put up against them. They are already exposed to the same beliefs as Nurgle.


    That said, I am just trying to express where I was coming from and am definitely not against making changes. I'll have a look and think and if we can throw around some ideas and get a good basis for it would definitely be something i'd consider.

  13. #13
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    Reading through the latest HH book, they actually raise the idea of a different sort of heresy, they mention how one lead by the Alpha Legion or The Night Lords would result in the enemy slowly draining the Imperium of resources until they won out. Is an interesting idea for sure.

    As for Russ, it seems more logical for his legion to fall to Khorne in a similar manner to the blood angels, they do reference that those in the black rage are akin to those wolves that have fallen to the curse of the wulfen. Which makes them little more than Khorne followers, given the right situation. I just can't see the Legion killers falling to anything but the savagery they contain within themselves, loyal hound turned savage beast speaks more of Khorne than Nurgle.
    Last edited by Ewokz; 24th Sep 12 at 3:11 PM.
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  14. #14
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    However, Nurgle would look to betray Tzeench.
    Also, the Wolves pride themselves on survivability and being able to take any pain that can be dished out. Whether it is the harshest winters on Fenris, or shrugging off injuries that should be deadly (or, at least, serious).
    Russ and his bunch are more than mindless killers, they bring death not just rage and mindlessness. They want to be feared and for their enemies to know the inevitability of their doom. To cower in fear and pray for a miracle. That is very Nurgle to me.

  15. #15
    OK having read Prospero Burns I'm about 95% sure that there's no way Russ would consort with "maleficarum" being the Emperor's faithful dogs and executioners.
    They literally don't believe the Warp is the source of the psychic powers in their legion and their policy with sorcery is "kill, don't as questions" and I'd sooner see them commit suicide by crusade than consorting with anything.
    If you're going for the they did it out of despair thing I'd like to note that

    Spoiler


    Only plausible way I see is taking the easy way out like with Horus, having him in a coma, malevolent whispers, seething ambition, feeling ignored, ignoring logic and flying off into Nurgle's arms because because.

  16. #16
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    Remember it's just the basic outline.

    I intend to exploit the idea that it's not Maleficarum. Nurgle doesn't use magics or psykers (well... minimally, and will claim not to), and wants to see the use of such things destroyed. An offering for the ability to bring death to all those that use such twisted tools to weave fates that are un-natural and to avoid the inevitable. Add to that the fact the Wolves do use psykers themselves (and freely admit that they use them - with the key point being only used in a controlled fashion), Russ could be held to believe that he would never be out of control. That he is only doing what is needed to address the bigger danger, the clear use of magic that is even worse than expected. Even seeing it as a sign of loyalty to the Imperium, that he will do whatever is necessary to wipe out the vile magic user that will be the doom of them all.

    The very idea of being crushed by the magic that he so reviles, proving that he is not as capable of dealing with it as he believed. Believing that if the Wolves could be crushed so easily that they will deal massive damage, potentially fatal damage, to the Imperium. The whispers of a magic hater could be powerful.
    Given that other Primarchs fell for much less in the original fluff (most is only fleshed out in the recent books).

    Also, the time Russ has to consider the option can be infinite. During his agony of the Wulfen taking over, he can be affected by Nurgle and time can basically stand still while all the thoughts and discussions and offers of Nurgle are considered. Nurgle can walk him through it all over vast time, while it only takes a moment

  17. #17
    Nurgle doesn't use magics or psykers (well... minimally, and will claim not to)
    Khorne does too, though. Also, from what lore is available of the relationship between the chaos gods, it seems Nurgle messes up Tzeentch's plans more as a matter of natural course, rather than any particular antipathy. He might get a laugh or two out of messing with Tzeentch, but that's more likely a result of his jovial nature than malicious intent. Khorne on the other hand actively hates everyone.

    Also, Khorne offers protection from sorcery through talismans and martial zeal, rather than zombification. Given that the space wolves already hold onto talismans and fetishes as spiritual protection, and value their fierce reputation, it seems more likely they'd fall to Khorne than Nurgle. Khorne would offer destruction of the enemy, and limited protection from sorcery as a side effect, rather than limited protection from everything, and the destruction of the enemy as a side effect.

  18. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #18
    Retired Compliance Fairy Gorb's Avatar
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    Um, Nurgle uses the shit outta psykers and nefarious magicks.

    Plague of Undeath, anyone (as a major, ongoing, fluff example)? Minor Psychic Power List from 3.5ed as a rules example?

  19. #19
    I'll take a wild swing here and even go as far as to suggest Tzeench.
    He's the one Magnus talked to in order to fix his legion's curse and the weaver of vast plans that at times conflict each other.
    You know when in Prospero Burns

    Spoiler


    Given that other Primarchs fell for much less in the original fluff (most is only fleshed out in the recent books).
    Even in the current state most of the stories honestly don't seem really waterproof, Horus being among the top offenders. Only Lorgar really had me sold as his emotional frenzy seems the only one that's completely justified while most other primarchs seem like spoiled brats who feel offended and threatened even by the slightest of actions and missteps.
    Last edited by Lord Abaddon; 26th Sep 12 at 12:36 PM.

  20. #20
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    I really didn't buy Horus's or in fact the Luna wolves fall. One minute they're avoiding violence through as many means as possible, the next Horus is hanging corpses from the bridge and murdering worlds? I get that the legion were loyal but even then there is a limit to that. Not only that but can you really think of a reason for Horus to turn, or many of his fellow Primarchs for that matter? Under the Emperor they get basically everything they could ever desire, Horus killing his best friend Sanginious when all he liked to do was chat with him makes the least sense.

    I guess when you get down to it, chaos breaking his mind with the true potential he could achieve with the warp is probably to blame. But really what more could he want, seriously?

  21. #21

    Spoiler


  22. #22
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    Pretty good point, they didn't really ever provide context for the vision, and even with them later doing so he should have realized that the guys giving him such a vision had motives of their own. Every Primarch so far seems to just accept visions given to them as 100% facts, regardless of context of the events shown or those showing them.

  23. #23
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    I still will be adding to this (with some reasonably considerable changes or expansions of explanations) - I just been working 16 hour days recently.

    Ewokz, I agree that the books make some of the Primarchs seem a bit silly with their falls; however, I believe that it is largely because the books start so late in the crusade. You don't get to see all the little factors that build up over time. You don't really get to see why Horus becomes jealous of the Emperor and so forth. You don't get to see the really close relationships that they build with one another, which is one of the biggest reasons that many fall.

    For example, Mortarion, falls largely because of his friendship with Horus. He willingly turns because he is closer to Horus and has issues with other aspects of the Imperium (remember, that both Sanguinius and Dorn had expressed concern at Mortarion's loyalty well before the Heresy took place as he was too close to Horus).

    That said I find that several of the falls in the book are solid. Fulgrim and Mortarion I thought were very good. Angron didn't need too much explaining, because well he is pretty insane and has pre-existing issues with the Emperor. It did suffer from not having the past explained in more depth.
    Though I must say I have liked the sections with Kharn, though he hasn't had enough air time.

  24. #24
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    Ahoy, I have made a significant update. I have update to Version 0.2.
    I have updated the OP. I will add future posts into the OP, but want to post what changes have been made in individual posts so that peeps can keep track of updates easier.

    Spoiler

    Last edited by MooFreaky; 1st Nov 12 at 6:20 AM.

  25. #25
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    Major update.
    Check the OP... I now have a major overview of all 18 Legions. It's only key points, and nothing is set.
    Hopefully this will give people more areas they can comment on. Any ways to expand it, concerns, likes, bitter hates, sensual loves... whatever. Happy to hear it.

    If anyone has feedback please add it. I know there are lurkers, I can see the view count climbing!!!

  26. #26
    - As punishment, Magnus willingly took his place atop the Golden Throne. Forever protecting the remains of the Emperor and allowing the Astronomican to be directed through him (removing the need for the Choir).
    This puts the Emperor out of the picture? Dead, in stasis, recovering or somewhere in between?

  27. #27
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    The Emperor is within the Golden Throne, with Magnis being atop it. It is his punishment for destroying the Emperor's plan, consorting with Chaos and so forth, while also being his redemption. He will preserve the Emperor's remains and allow the Emperor's power to be channeled through him, creating the Astonomican. Thus removing the need for the thousands sacrificed each day to keep it going.

  28. #28
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    When the demand for souls went up, what was the effect on magnus in this parallel-verse? Is he being slowly consumed by the Emperor or are the two acting almost like friends supporting one another.

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