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like the title says what army do i get i can't decide can you people help i need pros and cons of these armies
chaos space marines
dark eldar
necrons
daemonhunters
tau & kroot
kroot [with no tau or anything]
tau [with no kroot or anything]
i need pros and cons on how good they are in the game painting and things like that
CSMs: they get deamons (if you want them).
if you want the armor save of SM but you dont like servents of the false emperor then have CSMs or traitor guard (all the tanks and inf with deamons, mutants, and CSMs etc to back them up)
they are also good for conversions
i cant think of any cons i cant see a problem
tau(no kroot) i can only think a bad idea for this
TAU ARE BAD IN CC!!!
kroot(no tau) i can only think a bad idea for this to
KROOT ARE ONLY GOOD AT CC
but they can move through jungle better than most armys
DE
fast but bad armour saves!
they need to get into CC ASAP
DH i dont realy know about coz ive never seen a game with them
necrons are a good army but if 75% get wiped out then you loose...
tau and kroot are a good choise- tau have the weapons and range, kroot are their CC guys
i already know 1 pro of DH grey knight terminators they look cool
i was a dh player for a few months, and found that they lacked in a number of things.
1 numbers are limited if you plan on fielding grey knights
2 not much anti tank
3 take alot of work to get them to look good as the minis have extream detail which is good but time consumeing.
4 if you plan on useing them as allies or with allies you need to buy either a sm codex or ig codex
5 they are tricky to win with you have to really know their limits and know how to use your inquisitor lord and retinue or your hq as theese are your hardest hitting units
thats just my $.02
DE are very fast and powerful in CC but any ranged slugging match is a bad idea.
Necrons are not a bad army. They have the second best basic troops ever but hideously expensive elites and the Monolith is a potential major weakness against a smart opponent. If you do choose them do the world a favour and only use C'tan in really big games please.
Daemonhunters are a very elite army and you do need to be incredibly careful in your selections if you are using Grey Knights because at 25 points a model your opponents will rack up the victory points like theres no tomorrow.
Chaos are a good solid force but wide open to unscrupulous play in some areas.
thats DH off my list now oh and stupid me i forgot to add orks onto the list
well there is too much to list and you need to narrow it down more. what are you looking for? do you care about the story/history of the race? how it looks? how it plays? do you want to play in tournaments? do you care if people call you cheesy? do you like melee? ranged? both? swarm armies? small bt powerful? HQ expensive? etc.
for chaos it depends. do you want undivided? deamons? god specific?
narrow it down and it will be easier to help
Daemon Hunters are very cool. The models are absolutely beautiful. Problem, they're absolutely expensive too. If you got the cash, Daemonhunters could be a good choice. They excel in both close combat and ranged attacks - but their extremely low numbers makes them difficult to use, and difficult to keep alive. Your best bet with them is to use them as allies.
Chaos is pretty awesome. You can do anything you want with them. Shooty + numbers; stronger + fewer; close combat + numbers; close combat + fewer; shooty + fewer; anything you can dream of! And that's just rules-wise. I mean, you can go with any kind of fluff for them too! Are they repenting? Are they following some insane leader? Are they searching for something? Are they fleeing from the forces of the Thousand Sons who have banished them and the only way for them to be re-accepted by the chapter is to learn everything about Tzeentch? Everything's possible and the converting opportunities are limitless.
Tau... I hate Tau. They don't like close combat and are pussies who stay away at range.
Kroot... I don't hate Kroot much... but they work with the Tau. And Kroot alone, they just don't seem like a complete race when alone.
Dark Eldar are pretty awesome. They're the "general's army" as they are very difficult to use - but can pay major dividends in the end. They are very susceptible to incoming fire and return attacks, and hence their goal is to kill before getting killed. This makes them a raider army, but with extremely fast transports, they're good at it. They also have some rock-strong close combat units that'll easily hold their own in combat. Their shooting is nothing to mock, as a shooting-based Dark Eldar army can terrorize their opponents by always staying just out of reach while executing and methodically destroying their opponents.
Overal suggestion: Chaos
Next in line: Daemonhunters
I'm gonna do the Ancestors of Pech a favor and endorse the army I use.
Kroot. On their own. You've proabably seen the list, Kroot Mercenaries, in the chapter approved. I can tell you right now, Kroot are one of the most unique armies in 40K right now.
Painting; Very easy to paint. Theses models are perfect for drybrushing. Kroot can come in ANY colour scheme, becuase of the fact that they can absorb any genetic material. The result is a very coherent but powerful looking force when they're done.
Gaming; Kroot, when used right, can steamroll. Kroot as an army have one weakness really, crap armor. Because of this, most Kroot players will go SLIGHTLY troop heavy, but mark my words, it's not a horde army. The Kroot list is quite adaptable, and all the units in it can be vicious when used right. Some advantages;
Forested or jungle terrain? They can see right through it, pass through it without penalty, and get additional cover from it.
Evolutionary upgrades. You buy these for most of the army, you pick one, and all Kroot that can have it must buy it, usually 1 or 2 points. They give you things like extra initiative, toughness, speed, and cover. Very good.
One thing that I like about the list, their wargear list encorporates items from the several of the 40K armies, because they're mercs. Can you say a squad leader (Shaper) with a shuriken pistol, an eviserator, and krak grenades? Heck yes.
Kroot are a tough army to play. While they are powerful, a headlong charge in enemy fire will not win the day. Because of this, you have to use the enviroment to your advantage. You've got some of the toughest close combat troops in the game. Use them. When you get the hang of it, you'll have ended up with a highly tailored and powerful force which will do you good.
Rant over.
i'd say orks,b/c i think they're the most fun, most flexible race in the game( except 2 tactical squads and a force commander, of course), but it's probably a good idea to wait for the 4th edition rules to come out, and see just how much each race his negatively or positively effected...
leviathan, hate to say it, but the kroot got screwed over. they even forgot to put some of the stats for units and weapons in(example: krootox). and their weapons choices are limited so much you cant get any of the really useful weapons from other lists-just the bolt pistols and c.c. weapons... i love kroot, and really want to start an army of them myself, but GW really fucked 'em good.
Well lets see...I havent played any of those armys but Ive fought some of them plenty of times(well not orcs never fought them or a kroot merc army but I have fought kroot with tau)
This is off the top of my head so dont flame me if I get something mixed up or wrong.
chaos space marines-never fought
dark eldar
+Great at CC (And wytch cult can easily beat the snot out of tyranids in cc)
+Fast
+Uncommon Army
-Weak armor
-Not many units
necrons
+VERY hard to kill
+Toughest "tank" in the game (Monolith)
+Come back to life
+Make more units a turn (Crypt Spider)
-If you 75% or more of your army dies then you loose
-Only above average stats/weapons
daemonhunters-Never fought (I mean has ANYONE ever seen one?)
tau & kroot
+Great at range (tau)
+Good armor saves (tau)
+Very heavy damaging weapons
-Only above average CC
-Tanks have only average armor
kroot [with no tau or anything]
+Very rare army
+Highly adaptable
(Cant go into much detail since it depends how you adapt them to be)
-Low Armor saves
tau [with no kroot or anything]
+Can slaughter anything at range
+Good armor
-Horrible in CC
Ok well thats all I can think of off the top of my head in 5 min
Get Eldar! All the rest sucks! :P
i would rather not have jetbikes that have hippy symbols as
flags no offense
"i would rather not have jetbikes that have hippy symbols as
flags no offense"
Then make your own design, one of the greatest things about 40K is that you have alot of flexability, especially in how your units look.
If you want my opinion on it, out of your choices I would say Chaos. I'm a SM (Black Templar) player myself, but I have a friend who plays as CSM who I play often, and the more I play against chaos the more I have grown to like them alot.
I won't give most of the pros/cons as what I can come up with has really already been said, but I'm just saying my personal preference is in Chaos.
DE are if you want a rewarding army. Against a competent player they can have some incredible battles (my fave was a rapid-firing plasma pistol getting its owner and the Lord w/shadow field in the same turn). They do not take shooting well but in CC they strike before anyone short of Lictors and Stealers and will shred almost anything. Even their basic warriors are as fast striking as a Daemon Prince which means you can win CC better than most.
Oh yeah, you don't need Raiders to win but they are hndy.
no 'nids
Originally Posted by Imperial marine
Well, you have quite teh veried tastes, my friend.
CSM - The Traitors
PROS : good story, REALLY awesome models, well rounded army
CONS : Everyone and their dog plays chaos, the good story portrays most of them as teh bad guys, easy to play....
DARK ELDAR - All but unplayable.
READ THIS FIRST : The Dark Eldar are being taken off of the GW line very soon. You will only really be able to acquire them online. Sometime next year they are rereleasing them with all new units and a new codex.
PROS : Fast attack, hit and run tactics are fun, pretty interesting models
CONS : Alot of people think models are taboo, one of the hardest armies (you might not like this, I nearly played them for this reason lol) and now being taken off the GW line...
NECRONS - The ub3rl33t h4x0rz in all of us....
PROS - They have some of the most powerful units in the game, easily the most powerful army in 40k, they have.... 1 cool model....
CONS - Not fun to play, no story, models are subpar mostley, EXTREMELY easy to play, can be beaten quickly be phasing out... Dont play them. Please?
DAEMON HUNTERS - Sir not quite so brave as sir galahad...
PROS - One of the few space marine lists that isnt VASTLY underpowered, sweet models, the imperium...
CONS - The imperium.....
Very balanced army overall... just not my style.
TAU & KROOT - A match made in heaven...
PROS - Vastly powerful artilery, extremely awesome models, best guns in game, have some close range support from kroot...
CONS - Kroot arent that great at CC, and basically just used as cannon fodder, but occasionally become useful...
TAU - same as above, minus the canon fodder
KROOT - Dont play just kroot. You'll lose every game you play. Kroot arent powerful enough to stand alone.
no offence taken. I found that funny. I always love to pick on armies and see the response i get.
You don't have to make em look like hippies. I chose the Ulthwe craftworld army and they are far from hippies.
ok i narrowed my list to 5 [well i think it was but differnt stuff]
anyway here it is
necrons
CSMs [chaos space marines]
eldar [not dark]
orks
tau and kroot
Necrons, find quite boring in smaller games, because of the phase out rules you tend to need reasonable amount of warriors to not have to worry about it, limiting the points for the fun stuff in the army. But can be a nice looking force.
CSM, doesn't really narrow it down much. You can go from sneaky army of death, to major close combat, to shooty army of death (iron warriors are nasty)
Eldar - fast fragile and fun, one of my favourite armies of the latest edition.
Orks - fun horde and nasty at both shooting and combat, yeh I did say shooting. The amount of shots they can put out is quite scary for the points. Specially when new rules come out and let ya rapid fire after you moved.
Tau / Kroot - My latest army, fragile but some of the best and most interesting weapons in the game, but fragile under mass firepower.
Double Post
Got to make 2 comments on these to. Dark Eldar codex isn't out next year, its at least 2 years away, We got Marines, Tyranids, Eldar, Orks, and Ordos Xeno Inquistor lists as the next codexes. And are very playable, but not user friendly, you have to lose a lot of games with them to figure out how to play them, but my g/f loved the background and models and got them as her first army, and she winning with them more than she losing and the new rules only help her more.
Tau and Kroot are both very playable together or separtely. Tau have got some of the best vehicles and weapons in the game, just fragile to mass firepower, but can direct they firepower to where it is needed and make a mess.
Kroot as part of the Tau force give you numbers and limited combat ability, but as the Kroot Merc force they are a good all round army, just expensive to do all the conversions needed.
I don't know wether i should be shocked more at wether she could like DE models or their background.
nevermind
imperial marine, it would be simpler if you just stated how you would your army to fight Ie: well-trained and equipped but few or weak and many. Close combat or shooty etc. Instead of presenting a list. Else you might a well ask about all races.
Last edited by KingKupo; 7th Jul 04 at 12:31 PM.
Lol, yeh i know must admit, a lot of the models in her army, arn't actually from DE range, but from Dark Elf Range, like the Witch Elves with conversions for Hellions and Wyches. As for the background, what there is of it isn't bad, there is just a big lack of it.
Not a single mention of IG?
Okay 2 comments here, first of all, why should whether or not other people play be considered a pro or a con, if i want to play chaos and my neighbour plays chaos that wont stop me, i will still spill blood for the blood god. and second, you cant really say models are bad or subpar, that is totally opinion, you may not like necron models but other people might, so it cannot be stated as a fact.
Chaos space marines
Pros: Fun to play, forgiving like Space Marines. Great selection of troops with a lot of heavy hitters, excellent for conversions and just a lot of fun to play. DEMONS!!!
Cons: Models can be a little expensive. Smaller army like that of Space Marines. Most Chaos armies are themed and are easy to beat if you know how to counter them or play them with specific armies. ie, Word Bearers are cannon fodder for Daemonhunters and Witch Hunter armies.
Dark Eldar
Pros: Unmatched for hit-and-run. Fast units that are excellent in H2H; good initiative and specialized weapons make them daunting even for Space Marines in close combat. Talos... excellent unit when working well but a little unpredicatable.
Cons: Weak... heavy bolters are their bane. I played a DE force and had two devestator squads with 4 HBs each and chewed through the main force like paper mache. Everything is open-topped and low armor values, meaning that S-5 weapons can beat em up. Hard to get right... most missions make this army a pain to use.
Necrons
Pros: Excellent units all around. Resilient as well as the ability to stand back up in many cases. Good weaponry both ranged and close for certain ones. Units such as Wraiths and Flayed ones can make life miserable. The C'tan are pretty damn hard to beat.
Cons: Beat em quick by phasing them out. Massed fire is their enemy. Low initiative means that in H2H with warriors, you're going to be able to take out your fair share. An army for beginners with little imagination... pretty much it's close in and shoot.
Daemonhunters
Pros: About as diverse an army as you can find due to the ability to use the Space Marines or IG as your primary forces. Well balanced in that you can't have Grey Knights and allied Space Marines, but you CAN have Space Marines with allied Grey Knights. Can have Daemonhosts at the expense of Grey Knights and vice versa. Inquisitors are some of the best units in the game, I've found, mine having felled 3 of the greater daemons and now looking for a Tzeentch Changer of the Ways to tangle with. Grey Knights are good as they can deep strike, have nemesis force weapons and the Aegis (must roll as if using night fire rules to see them, if you fail, unit can't shoot for that turn). Live up to their name... against daemonic armies, they are pretty damn effective. Can have both assassin and death-cult assassins.
Cons: A pure DH force is going to be small and so it may be easy to be overwhelmed. Using a DH force means your enemy gets to add daemons to his forces and can regenerate many of the lesser daemons again and again. Need fire support badly.
Tau & Kroot
Pros: Powerful at range, kroot are good for tying up units, absorbing fire and can actually be decent in H2H. Kroot hounds kick ass. Markerlights and Pathfinders with Railguns... nuff said.
Cons: Get up close with a true assault force and your Tau/Kroot become dead Tau/Kroot.
Kroot [with no tau or anything]
Pros: Can move through jungles with no penalties to movement. Gnarloc is ok...
Cons: Umm... can't shoot, can't sustain close combat against true assault units, no artillery... they just about... well... suck.
Tau [with no kroot or anything]
Pros: Supreme firepower, lots of units. Markerlights. Same Tau stuff as above.
Eldar
Pros: Fast, good inititative. Excellent in H2H with many aspect warriors. Nice tanks with good abilities to move shoot and move with correct upgrades. Wraithlords... excellent unit that everyone who plays against Eldar hates. Diverse and colorful force with a lot of character. Dark Reapers eat troops like a fat kid eats twinkies.
Cons: Low armor values making them suspect to all weapons. Tanks are weak and, unlike Tau, get shot and crash when immobilized. Some units can be more expensive than they are worth.
#26
Go for Tau+Kroot.(personally because I love them)
Pros:
Deadly accruate,super Long-Range and powerful weapory(Tau)
Easily get cover protection(Kroot)
Best Basic Weapon in WH40k(Tau Pulse guns)
Kroot Hounds/Bolt Knarlocs kick asses(Kroot)
Cons:
Totally defenseless(Tau,except you got a Farsight or Aun'shi-both are ass-kickers),or just an average CC(Kroot)
Light armour for Tanks(comparing with LR or even a P......)
Only have two vehicles(unless you got them from forgeworld)
Important Eldar point. If you want a transported army you better be a good converter or take 6 man squads 'cos there is no Wave Serpent model except the insanely expensive FW one (I know there is a new one being made but it looks crap and keeps getting moved back).
[QUOTE=Imperial marine]like the title says what army do i get i can't decide can you people help i need pros and cons of these armies
chaos space marines
Tough army to play only because of so many variants to go with. Definately for experience generals.
dark eldar
Fast but fragile. Repeat this phrase over and over again until you get your butt handed to you for about 40 times, then you might get it.
necrons
Dont play with or against, no comment
daemonhunters
See Necrons
tau & kroot
Shooty army, good against basic trioops. Definately needs cohesive tactics.
kroot [with no tau or anything]
See above
tau [with no kroot or anything]
see above
Honestly, painting aside, just look at how you play RTS games. If you take the turtle aspect(hard shell, slow move) than Space Marines are for you. If you just bum-rush everything, then Orks and (Dark) Eldar can kick some serious butt. Remember, it doesnt matter the army, it only comes down to the tactics and die rolls.
Not good for a starter. Very hard to master, and take a long time to make (and cost a bomb due to the number of models). Newbie needs a small force they can build cheaply and quickly and get a lot of games under their belt.
In saying that in a couple of years time (anywhere from 2-5) once i'm; out of uni and earning enough, and have enough free time. I'll start to put together an IG army as they're a helll of a challenge.
[QUOTE=rokudan]im not what youd call an experianced general but i play chaos... they aren't hard to use...
necrons and space marines are the best armys to play with if begining
they are easy to paint and are the easiest armys to use...
i knocked the list to 3 now
chaos
orks
tau and kroot
and i think everybody can agree what is the hardest army to play you will almost never win with them but if you do them right you litarly cant be stopped.
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