Daemon Death

[FerociousBeast]

I've always been a bit unclear about Daemon death. If a Daemon is "killed", is its essence absorbed back into the Warp, ready to take corporeal form again, whenever possible, or is it really and truly dead?

Take Daemon Prince X for example. He is attacked by Grey Knights and is slain. Which happens:

A) He is sucked back into the warp and must rally his energies to reassume corporeal form in the Eye of Terror (or wherever)

or

B) He is dead. Doesn't come back. Daemon Prince X is bye bye.

If A, is there any way to completely and forever destroy a daemon?

[rocket_Magnet]

most of the time itll be A, but inquisitors and grey knights sepcialise in killing daemons, im sure its explained in the daemonhunters codex, cant renember it atm. most of the larger daemons though the greater daemons in particular can only be banished to the warp, never killed

[TheGodOfWar]

A Greater Deamon can never be truly killed. His soul is simply sucked back into the warp.

But lesser daemons can have their Essence destroyed apparently as displayed by Inquisitor Eisenhorn in Malleus

[Sir Guppy]

i always thought they just went back into the warp. their is a story in the deamonhunters codex about a grey knight who fights a deamon prince and wins, whilst being killed at the same time. and before he dies the deamon prince says something along the lines of - i wont die i will go back to the warp and live forever then I will come back, where as your soul will be the play thing of deamons for an eternity, the grey knight then quite cooly replys "so be it" and pushes his staff further into the deamon while also have a sword or sumthink pushed into his body.

so i reckon deamons all go back to the warp, or at least the deamon princes do, mayb not ever tidly one as they might not have the power to draw themselves back or keep a link to the warp.i would have thought that deamons could in the end be totaly destoryed- but to do this you would have to go into the warp itself and kill it on its home ground. and anyway once a deamon does reform it still has to get back into real world, altho with the eye of terror being a big gate way into the real world this aint to hard.

[FerociousBeast]

OK, thanks for the info, but is it hard for a "slain" daemon to become corporeal again? Also, are Daemon Princes included with Greater Daemons in the "can't-ever-kill" category?

[chocolate]

Depends on how much of a demon you are. In Chaos Codex it says that if you spend 50 points on daemonic gifts, you'v got a daemon prince... but 50 points isn't a lot. Say that your armour had fused with your skin, you had a massive demon mouth, you had large wings, big claws, a daemonic weapon, daemonic essence, and were blessed by Khorne. Then you could come back (take Angron for instance. He was destroyed by Grey Knights at Armageddon, but came back about 100 years later). Greater demons can come back freely. Otherwise... its gone.

[Atomic-war-cow]

I think (correct me if i'm wrong) that every time a daemon comes back hes weaker than befor. and eventually he will be weak enough that he will truly die.

[FerociousBeast]

It seems like a psyker could be able to completely destroy a Daemon since he can manipulate the stuff that it is ultimately made of. Seems like this should be able to work for all daemons, Greaters and Princes included. Maybe even the gods. I remember hearing something somewhere that Gork and Mork are so incredibly powerful that if they ever came across a Chaos God in the warp they would be able to easily destroy it.

[Athair]

Gork and Mork are figmants of the Orks imagination. But because all Orks are slightly psychic, Gork and Mork exist. It's the "we think it's true, so it is" rule.

I think if the Daemons don't have an appropriate sorce of power, then they can be destroyed. But the Greater Daemons are made of the current races blood rage, passion, will to change, etc. So they can't be permanently destroyed.

[Dark Watcher]

It's the "we think it's true, so it is" rule.

Sounds like Hogfather (for those who've read pratchett).

Here's a question...

Are daemons all born of the warp? Or is it possible for a corporeal being to become a daemon?

[Thalasion]

A powerful chaos champion can become a daemon, but it doesnt happen often(they usualy go chaos spawn before becomeing a daemon)

[Dark Watcher]

OK then.
Surely a daemon daemon must be capable of being destroyed. I would assume that Horus was more powerful than the bloodthirsters etc. The Chaos God channelled huge amounts of power into him and he was the lead of the rebellion against the emperor. And the emperor managed to utterly destroy him. Granted the chaos powers fled before the final blow was completed but non the less he was still destroyed utterly.

If he can be destroyed then surely even a greater daemon can be. It just takes a psychic attack from a mortal god powerful enough to mash a star into it base particles to do it, but it can be done.

Also, think i have found the answer to defeating chaos....


...Kill everything. The chaos powers were created from disturbances in the warp due to complex life-forms desires and emotions. If these are removed will the warp not return to its pure natural flow?

The extreme i know, but if you can't be a little off the wall then what's the point?

[Thalasion]

You dont need to kill evrything, ork emotions only form gork and mork, so killing them wouldnt hurt the chaos gods.

[Stormblade]

Well I believe that really Gork and Mork are chaos gods :P Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle were created by humans I believe... there were probably other gods existing in the warp before these but the sheer numbers of humans established these gods with a great amount of power Slaneesh was created by the eldar during the fall, Gork and Mork were created by the thoughts of Orks their belief in a great orky deity created them in the warp...
If they become weak enough a daemon may be killed, although that would be hard to achieve probably requiring the use of Psychic powers or a Phariah... how exactly did the daemon die in Malleus?
Physical being can become daemonic with attention from the gods but this would likely only happen to the really powerful ones quite likely more powerful then that of a daemon prince in the TT games but the ones in such games may have a fairly minor daemonic essence in the warp for them to exist after death. In fact all of the beings bar Necrons and Phariahs have an essence in the warp but these will be absorbed rather than become daemons usually.
Yes if you kill off every living being then there would be no chaos gods... including every being in the warp if you would mindwipe EVERY being COMPLETELY then you would get a similar effect, but that would be at an extent far behind that of when being born... it would be like destroying the brain of everything...

[Exetus]

Only named daemons can be killed. A greater daemon of any of the four gods can be permanently destroyed IN THE WARP by another being powerful enough. Their essence is absorbed back into the Warp, but that specific daemon will enver again exist.

Ex: Daemon is named Tskareth. Daemon fights Grey Knights in corporeal world and is slain, banished to warp for 101 years. Grey Knights enter the Warp and find Daemon on Daemon world of _____. They fight and kill it within the warp, blasting its soul with psychic power, etc whatever... daemon ceases to exist. New Daemon of same kind, Elsharet born with part of Tskareth in it, but not same Daemon.

That's how I understand it, but I may be totally wrong...

[Davor]

Just fyi Horus was not just killed, he was cleansed. IIRC The chaos gods retreated from Horus as the Emperor was hitting him with that psychic blast "more powerful then an exploading sun, more focused then a laser beam" then horus realized what he had done and accepted that he had to die so chaos couldn't claim him again. Now this part I'm a little cloudy on but I believe The Emperor also protected Horus' soul as it traveled to the warp, where it remains in care of the starchild (read: Emperor).


As for killing everything, that's exactly what the Necrons and C'tan are out to do, for the C'tan hate the warp and wish to destroy it.

[BillyBob]

I've always been a bit unclear about Daemon death. If a Daemon is "killed", is its essence absorbed back into the Warp, ready to take corporeal form again, whenever possible, or is it really and truly dead?

Take Daemon Prince X for example. He is attacked by Grey Knights and is slain. Which happens:

A) He is sucked back into the warp and must rally his energies to reassume corporeal form in the Eye of Terror (or wherever)

or

B) He is dead. Doesn't come back. Daemon Prince X is bye bye.

If A, is there any way to completely and forever destroy a daemon?

It's A. If you're more interested, read the novel Grey Knights by Ben Counter (awesome writer). Basically Grey Knights send all demonic activity back to the warp by killing it's earthly essence (flesh). Demon princes and higher demons get banished back to the warp for various amounts of years. they then try to return through a demon host or some sort of dead important imperial person who was corrupt :flamer: .
Like I said, read the book. It's a nice read through especially if you're a grey knight player

[FerociousBeast]

Gork and Mork are figmants of the Orks imagination. But because all Orks are slightly psychic, Gork and Mork exist. It's the "we think it's true, so it is" rule.

Hmm, so how is this much different from how the Chaos gods were formed? Humans shed blood, Khorne is formed. Orks likewise create Gork and Mork, though this time by belief (if that is actually the case). A slight difference, but not ultimately any different. Mortals create their gods.

[chocolate]

If only the Imperium could somehow broker an alliance with the C'tan.... oh waite, Mars is a Necron tombworld! WERE ALL GONNA DIE!

[Stormblade]

Ferocious, it ISN'T any different from any of the other gods... or at least not different from those created in the warp... Gork and Mork pretty much are chaos gods...
Now, now chocolate dont be so heretical . I'm not entirely sure if Mars is a necron tomb world... the physical body of one of the C'tan is their, but IMO the necron wouldnt have tried to take mars if they had the place infested with resting necrontyr would they? I said physical body because the dragon may have been defeated on Medusa by Ferrus... the living metal of something was fused with Ferrus's hands when he killed it. And I believe that the adeptus mechanicus nikcked Ferrus's body when he kicked the bucket...

[Triceron]

As powerful as the Primarchs are, I highly doubt Ferrus Manus killed a C'tan

[Icarus]

I remember a WD battle report when the Daemonhunters came out, where a Grand Master killed a Greater Daemon with his force weapon. The afterstory said the the daemon was crippled for a few thousand years, but never ultimately destroyed.

[DarthFelth]

and who in his right mind would fight a daemon on a daemon world, thats a one way trip even if you kill the damn thing

[chocolate]

Ferrus Mannus killed a lesser C'tan me thinks. And I'm certain that he is in posession of the Adeptus Mechanicus (even if the Iron Hands are en route to destroy me now, it must be said!).

[Paradise]

Ferrus Mannus didn't kill a C'tan. I believe it was a metal worm, one of the Dragons superior robots.

It is possible though, that it was the Dragon and it let itself be *killed*. So he could fuse with Ferrus. Sounds like a good plan to me. I mean, no weapons powerful enough could hurt him there and he could slowly gain power.

[ShadowFox]

If the Tyranids absorbed all sentient life in the galaxy I am sure that would permanently end the exsistance of all demons, leaving the Hivemind the only prescene in the warp.

[orkmobzta]

why does it have to be the tyranids, it could be any other race except chaos cause that just defeats the point of killing everything to kill the gods.....

on a slightly funnier side note i thought this thread was called daemon breath, phew that must stink

"grey knite callidius go take a squad of your best men and kill that daemon"

"sorry cant sir no-one can get near enough, his breath stinks, maybe if we just left it here it might leave us alone....."

[ShadowFox]

The Tyranids don't pocess emotions that fuel the exsistance of the Chaos Gods like Eldar and Humans do.

The Necrons would also be perfect for destroying the creatures of the warp.