Raven guard 500 points *sighs* im stupid...

[Stormblade]

As a mark of y stupidity I have decided to make a 500 pts raven guard army... including command squad. To me at least its stupidly low on models...

HQ
Chaplain - jet pack, combibolter-melta - 95pts
Raven guard command squad - 5 man, jet packs, 1 pair of lightening claws, 2 meltaguns, 1 bolter, veteran sargeant with bolt pistol + CCW - 202 pts

Troops
Tactical squad - 6 man, missile launcher, plasma gun - 106 pts
Tactical squad - 6 man, flamer - 96 pts
499 pts (I think)
Can anyone conirm that vet sarge's for command squads are 12 points? I'll have to check when I can get to my codex's, so show how stupid I am to make this list...

[Fend]

not as stupid as sum ... *sigh*

[Dante]

whats so stupid bout it? I mean it sounds like a versitlie army for something like 40k in a flash (or is it 40k in 40 mins?) you know like a quick game kinda thing. and yes, its 12 points for the vet. srg.

[Stormblade]

Well as was thinking of starting a new army so I decided to give marines a try... chose raven guard 500 points, I think its stupid because, at least compared to guard and Nids its a very low model list..., the 2nd tactical squad doesnt have any real purpose just to close and ump out bolter fire and random flamings of stuff... the raven guard command squad and chaplain is exceedingly expensive for a small list, and is not all that good in combat or shooting troops.
::EDIT::
And Fend what exactly are you going on about?

[skrunt]

its not so bad. just get un-broke and get summore models.
like dante said, it woud be good foer small games

[Wempler]

I cannot stress enough, the usefulness of a Whirlwind. If you're a decent at guessing.
Maybe it isn't _that_ useful against Marines, but it can still pin them! At 75 points - it is very nice. Also: penetrating a Rhino filled with expensive Marines and rolling a '6' on the chart - no more marines is ever gonna walk out that Rhino. :-D

[HoBo Jo]

Hehe i good at guessing you should see me with IG mortar :argh:

[Stormblade]

Wemplar i'll try and remember that for when i expand :P not sure what I could really cut out in the army... I really want lightening claw command squad... cut down from a chaplain maybe... And Hobo guard mortars? I really wouldnt bother using them their way to weak, but if you can get Imperial Armour or the old guard codex you can find the rules for griffin mortor tanks... or wait for the WD with Armoured company doctrines to come out and see if it has the rules for it there.

[Dante]

Yeah white dwarf 294 has the new armored company rules! man, i wanna play that so badly...But itd be very expensive because EVERYTHING is a tank. but i would love to fight an Armored Company Army...thatd be sweet

[Stormblade]

Well Dante its 245 for us over here... GW neglecting the Homeland... but not in prices =/ I get a week before most people though thanks to my subscription, hope it will be useful for a change... and my friend is going to start up a new army, its a toss up between orks and armoured company if he chooses armoured company... id have to get this list up to beat him

[Evan_gelion]

I cannot stress enough, the usefulness of a Whirlwind. If you're a decent at guessing.
D

You don't guess with Ord blasts anymore. Chapter Approved changed that, as did the article about the 4th Ed rules. You now place the template as you like and roll a scatter die plus a D6--2d6 if on the move or indirect while choosing the highest. It was the fact that some people were so skilled at guessing that prompted this, as many Space Marine players watched a squad a turn disappear whilst an Earthshaker cowered behind a rock on the corner of the board. Hence, no more.

As for the list--at 500 points it's not likely to get much better than that. The only thing I can really say is maybe you want to downgrade that HQ--characters aren't that great anyway, and consider trying to fit a small tank or just something else in for the sake of gameplay.

[HighMarshal]

Sorry if this seem like a high-jacking of the thread, but i was just too tempted:

My choice of a 500pts SpeedFreak army:

HQ

BigMek: Rokkit Laucha, Choppa 35pts
-Mek: Rokkit 18pts
-Mek: Slugga, Rokkit 19pts
-Mek: Choppa, Rokkit 20pts
-Mek: Slugga (Shootier), Rokkit 21pts

-Trukk: Grots, Rokkit Launcha 37pts

Troops

4TankBustas: 3 Rokkits 68pts
-Nob: Rokkit, Choppa 36pts

-Trukk: Grots, Rokkit Laucha 37pts

5 Buggy's: Twin-Rokkits, Grots 210pts
(These are of course seperate choices )


There you have it! Thats 11 ordinary Rokkit's plus 5 Twin-Linked ones.

I dont have my Codex on me, so afew of the pts, _might_ be a little off ....

[Stormblade]

Evan, im about to make up a better 500 point RG list... with at least 2 units of scouts and no command squad, which i'll save for higher pts battles. And Raven guard don't ahve very many taks at all, although I may take a Rhino or two for rushing oer and double-tapping bolters under new rules. High marshall thanks for hijacking a thread into a completely new one there is new topic button on top of the forum you know. And anyway I don't see what good a load or rockits will be in such a samall force except maybe against armoured company or marines if they have good AP...
::EDIT::
Well I was hoping for better... I have currently decided upon;
HQ
Leader - stormbolter, CCW - 36
Troops
Scout squad - 6 man, 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter - 103 pts
Scout squad - 8 man, vet sarge w/ powerfist + boltpistol + meltabombs - 147 pts
Tactical squad - 8 man, missile launcher - 145 pts
Fast attack
Attack bike - multi-melta - 65 pts
total = 496 pts

[Morph899]

On the first posters list, it seems ok, but I'd tweak it like so: take away the marine with the plasma gun from the first tactical squad, since you will mostly be using the rocket launcher for longer range heavy shots the plasma won't be used much. Place this plasma gunner in the second squad, take away the flamer and the give the one who had it a bolter.

[Stormblade]

*ahem* morph... I had decided not to take that list, I think the raven guard command squad may have been overdoing it at 500 points... any comments on the second lsit of mine would be helpful...

[Sie LXIX]

put a chap on a bike, so he can go with the attack bikes

[Morph899]

Right, well, the second seems pretty solid, the scout squad with sniper rifles and a Heavy bolter is great. Attack bikes are fantastic, tough mobile and armed to the axles, though the other scout squad i'm not too sure about. Just a suggestion, not sure if it's good, replace it with a smaller tactical squad, gear it up for a little close combat. Then get a close combat hq choice maybe with terminator armour, put it in with the tactical squad, use it to hold the opposition in place while your other units mop up those not in close combat.

[Stormblade]

Altered now... taken off an attack bike, 2 with multimelta was too many for over 500 points really, the missile launcher in the new tactical squad, meltabombs on the scout sarge and the multimelta attack bike should be more than enough deal with the rhino, predator and hammerhead it'll face. The tactical squadwill do a fair bit of damage to troops with their bolters and the leader is cheap enough that their is still a fair amount of force on the table and adds a little bit of bolter fire to the squad.
The CC scouts can ifiltrate in closer to the objective games I usually play and 3 attacks each should do a bit of damage while the powerfist sarge could deal with heavier opponents.
The scouts with the heavy bolter and sniper rifles can take care of higher toughness models such as tau suits and still add support against troops from longer range than rifle fire.
Any more comments on it? With the loss of an attack bike I dont think I should have any bikes to run round in because that would limit their usefullness a fair bit, notice this list is designed for use with the up-and-coming 4th edition too...
::EDIT::
Most of the games I play are missions so the scouts will get infiltrate special rule and so are probably more likely to get to the enemy than a smaller tactical squad would be and armed with CCW and boltpistol they are mostly better in CC than a tactical marine would be and I would have very few tactical marine if I took a HQ choice with terminator armour.

[Morph899]

Not sure is a read it correctly but i seem to understand that you're going to use the Leader with the tactical squad, that's good but i'd use him differently. First i'd take away a marine or two from the tactical squad, use these points saved to give the leader a power weapon and bolster the close combat scout squad, scout squads seem to die more when they're not supported in close combat so use the leader to support them. 5 or 6 marines with bolters is still enough to hurt most infantry and you'd have a more potent close combat aspect with the leader and scouts.

[Stormblade]

Yes the leader is in the tactical squad, I didnt give him any close combat weapons because I didnt really want to lose many missile launcher shots, however I should be able to take out tanks without it but the main problem is the fact that the marines will have to deploy in the main deployment zone and will have to walk across the battlefield taking at least an extra turn than the scouts would take, any ideas about how to counter that?

[Morph899]

Well, i'd counter it by not moving the squad at all, use it for vehicle hunting from the back, use the leader independently, he's basically the same as a marine except for Ld and the amount of attacks so utilise him for combat. I'd use him right at the front, get him stuck in with the scouts, maybe try to find something you can take out to give him a power weapon or some such?

My marine codex was ruined some time ago and i've only got my Blood Angels codex to go by, so i'm not sure of the costs of most things.

[Stormblade]

Okay... I could run him up behind the scout squad like you said, if the scouts get into combat they probably wont win the combat in 1 turn against harder troops, in which case the leader would probably catch up, so if I dropped the tactical squad down to 6 it will free up 15 points... this will let me get that power weapon for the leader and a plasma gun for the squad and so let it deal out more firepower against targets then a bolter would.... after tottaing that up i'll have 11 pts remaining so if I drop the meltabombs for the vet sarge I can upgrade the leader to a commander with much better stats. So the list should be something like this:
HQ
Commander - power weapon, stormbolter - 65 pts
Troops
Scout squad - 8 man, vet sarge with powerfist, CCW and meltabombs - 147 pts
Scout squad - 6 man, 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter - 113 pts
Tactical squad - 6 man, missile launcher, plasmagun - 106 pts
Fast attack
Attack bike - multi-melta - 65 pts
Total = 496

[Morph899]

Yeah, the list looks much better now, a well rounded force, manoeuvrable, with good firepower and it should hold it's own in close combat. Doesn't seem to need much more improvement, good list.

[orkdom]

*sigh*...
i play a 2000pts raven guard force my self, and here's my advice:
dont play 500pt or less game w/ a raven guard army. points sink and makes it impossible to play to the army's strengths, which are suped up command squads and lots(upto 4) of assault squads.
don't take tactical squads in raven guard armies; they dont fit the character. rather, take scouts w/ sniper rifles and heavy bolters.
a good command squad consists of:
force comm. w/ m.c. lightning claws(2), jump pack and term. honors;
6 marines w/ j.packs, temr. honors, 2 melta guns and rest w/ lightning claws(2);
+ a vet. sergeant w/ j.pack, term. honors, and lightning claws(2). it costs 578pts. not very useful in a 500pt. game. dont bother taking command squads in such small games.
last, just play regular codex marines in 500pt. games w/ a commander, a predator, and a couple of tactical squads. boring, lame, stupid, and personally i fucking hate that army list, but 500pt games dont allow much room for diversity, and you're the one who chose the pts.

[Stormblade]

I'm just building the list as a base to expand from. In higher pts lists I will get a RG command squad, but I do think that the ability to use tactical squads via drop pod does go with the fluff...

[Lanquis]

yeah the comm squad was way too much. one thing ur leader in the new list has no nasty weapon. always give ur leaders at least power weapons i say. the scouts are an awsome idea but an 8 man tac squad guarding a missile launcher in 500pts? the scouts are good but keep the tacs free for combat

[Wempler]

A waaaaaaay too expensive HQ. Almost 600 points?! It will most certainly have a _very_ high priority (don't expect any to reach the enemy lines)

[Stormblade]

Yes Wemplar it is a very expensive HQ... my ideas are definatly not going to be tha expensive. And they'll also involve templaty death :flame:
And Languis the new list is this:
HQ
Commander - power weapon, stormbolter - 65 pts
Troops
Scout squad - 8 man, vet sarge with powerfist, CCW and meltabombs - 147 pts
Scout squad - 6 man, 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter - 113 pts
Tactical squad - 6 man, missile launcher, plasmagun - 106 pts
Fast attack
Attack bike - multi-melta - 65 pts
Total = 496
So its actually a 6 man tactical squad with missile launcher and plasmagun while the commander will be advancing within 6" of the infiltrating scouts... this way it will get into combat earlier and the character can dish out damage while moving towards a combat wielding a large pointy power weapon or I may model it like a lightening claw

[Dante]

A waaaaaaay too expensive HQ. Almost 600 points?! It will most certainly have a _very_ high priority (don't expect any to reach the enemy lines)

Bah! My hq one hq is 700'ish! It is full of plasma death, and power weaponness. It is uber useful because they all have jump packs so they CAN get "enemy lines" and make themselves useful...(but this is for my 3000 point army list so i cant compare that with Stormblade's list.

And for ur commander, why dont you give him a plasma pistol instead? because then he gets +1 attack! which in my opinion is more efficent than the stormbolter... (but then again...i do love assualting people...maybe it doesn't work for everyone)

[Stormblade]

Well seeing as the plasma pistol is just a pistol, I won't be getting many shots, probbaly just 1 shot and it can overheat... so Stormbolter, as well as being cheaper can mow down enemy troops better.

[HighMarshal]

Bah! My hq one hq is 700'ish! It is full of plasma death, and power weaponness. It is uber useful because they all have jump packs so they CAN get "enemy lines" and make themselves useful...(but this is for my 3000 point army list so i cant compare that with Stormblade's list.

And for ur commander, why dont you give him a plasma pistol instead? because then he gets +1 attack! which in my opinion is more efficent than the stormbolter... (but then again...i do love assualting people...maybe it doesn't work for everyone)

If you are using 700pts on a single squad, your nuts! period! I dont care how elite the squad is, and how much "über-plasma&powerweapon-death-O-doom" it _can_ dish out! Put that 1 squad up against 700pts of normal squads, its DEAD!

Lets take an exaple:

"The puny green'ies of the Imperial underwear":

700 pts, that will give you:

8 * 10 Guards: Each squad with 1 plasmagun+1missile laucher.

At full effeckt thats 10,5 dead marines EACH shooting face (at long range [12-24"]). The possibilety of the "full effeckt" happening is small yes, but in the hands of even a half desent player, your 700pts hq squad dosnt stand a chance!

And if you think that's just because of the shooting... 700pts will give you a total of 148 SpineGaunts!

[Dante]

it just kinda added up to 700 points. Its the blood angel honour guard, and almost everyone has a power weapon, termie honours, jump pack, and nades. That wasn't too expensive...9i think around 250 points) Then came the special characters. My vet. Srg has master crafted plasma pistol, a power weapon, and some other wargear, then the techmarine has all techmarine war gear stuff (signum, etc.) power axe, plasma pistol, Sanguinary high preist with all his fancy stuff 9exsanguinator, etc.) with a plasma pistol and a power sword, then the standerd bearer with a powerfist and a power weapon, and the standerd (and some other stuff), then i have a plasma pistoler, and a melta gunner marine. But when it is with a full thing of 60 marines it doesn't seem like such a bad choice, because it is very handy...

[Wempler]

60 marines in a 3000 pts army? That's a very, very small army.
Even less reason to take a 700 pts squad. At any rate - there's no need to boost your squad to _that_ extent.

[HighMarshal]

... espesially when you are playing BA! Then i actually have a reason more to get more squads! thats right.... DEATH COMPANY! :bandit:

[Stormblade]

60 marines in 3000 pts? right... the average cost of a marine in your army is 50 pts :argh: and he still dies in a hail of plasma-based doom...

[Dante]

60 mairnes for taticle squads...im sorry if i didn't make my self clear...srry! yeah dont worry i have lots o stuff in that army...other than 700 points worth of hq I have a grey knight teleport squad, 8 termies, and a couple of dreads...

[Stormblade]

Well okay that sounds slightly better... now yo drag this army back on track *heaves*
I've been thinking that sniper rifles are only really useful against high toughness enemies. But what about a bolter armed scout squad? Cheaper than tactical marines and they can do a fair amount of damage in close support to the BP+CCW scouts. In case of need they'd be in position to pile in and help the other scouts anyway.
HQ
Commander - power weapon, stormbolter - 65 pts
Troops
Scout squad - 8 man, vet sarge with powerfist, BP and meltabombs - 147 pts
Scout squad - 9 man, bolters - 117 pts
Tactical squad - 6 man, missile launcher, plasmagun - 106 pts
Fast attack
Attack bike - multi-melta - 65 pts
Total = 500
What about this? the army as a whole would work better in close quarters, we'll probably try out the new rules in a small, multiplayer game situation and rapid firing bolter-armed scouts seem pretty dangerous followed by an attack of combatty scouts...

[Dante]

thats nice, however i would change the scout squad to a sniper one and take out the powerfist. This weapon causes pinning so you can (try to) stop a uberclose combat squad from attacking one of your units. Also it has long range, along with infiltrators rule that scouts have, so you shouldn't need to worry about cc. i think the bike isn't worth the points value...if you want somehting to take down vehicles give your 6 man tacticle squad a razorback...wait..nevermind that goes over 500 points...oh well. the bike is good...for now

[Stormblade]

Well attack bikes are good... zoom up in terrain... zoom out melt a tank... tank molten... best if I had 2 though to make sure it died. Care to name a proper target for these thats under the 130 pts for them both?
I had the scout squad in the list before remember? I took it out. I only had 4 snipers in and really its kind of hard to be sure a marine fails his armour save without sending at least 3 wounds out... a close range fire support for the combat scouts would probably work best, taking down the squad about to be assaulted or one that would pile in to support it.

[Dante]

I see i see, well then i think that this army list of yours wont get much better! now to upgrade to 1000 points...

[Stormblade]

Yes for 1000 pts I was thinking of a large unit of sniper scouts, an assault squad, a devastator squad... and flamer based command squad of doom! With a pair of lightening claws! Or two!