what the **** am i doing wrong...

[Avatar Terminus]

All right. I've got a wonderful idea for a mod banging around inside that cluttered hell hole that is my brain. I've done a LOT of work on it already. I've converted and created gun lif files. I've fiddled and twiddled with the r1/r2scripts. I've monkeyed with mex files. So nobody out there can say "HEY LOOK! THIS GUY AIN'T FOLLOWING FORUM RULES! HE'S POSTING AN IDEA AND SAYING SOMEONE ELSE SHOUDL DO IT FOR HIM!"

Now that that's through...let me describe to you this problem. I think I've missed something fundamentally important in the modding universe and that isn't a good thing.

My very first step was to download all kinds of mods, look online for tutorials and that jazzity junk, and learn up. I /didn't/ want this sort of thing to crop up. But it has.

One thing i was planning on doing was changing the majority of the capital ships in either fleet slightly. Especially concerning turret numbers and that jazz. So, feeling timid, i download delphys hwse v1.27p. I open up r2/heavyinterceptor/lod0 and open up the .peo file. Then, I open up the mex editing point. I create a new mex chunk in the guns file, GUN2. I make it so that instead of 9.996693E-02 as its posX, i make it -9.996693E-02. Not a big change but a change. Then, I go to the .shp file and create gun2, out of gun1. I load up homeworld and hey-presto! a tri-gunned interceptor. I'm using a combo of beam and bullets so i could tell, fyi.

I fiddle around with fighters and corvettes in a similar fashion, adding missile launchers to the light and heavy corvettes. Then, feeling exceedingly cocky, I open up the advancesupportfrigate. I then decide a want 2 more guns. Just for coolnesses sake. I go to objects tab, and copy AdvancedSupportFrigateTurret1 and 2. I take advsupportfrigategun3 (that's not what it really said, but I'm lazy) and edited its matrix so the Z rotation value was 180 degrees. X position is -3.5. I did a similar thing for advsupfriggun4.

I copy the gun chunks in the mex file, taking the negatives off the X values. Then, i go to the .shp file, making sure everything is where its supposed to be, and copy more gunz. Copy as in, cover the gun file and copy it and change the numbers.

It don't work.

help...

[Hephaestus]

even though ive never tried it, this might help:
do all of the guns not work, or just the ones you tried to add? If so, then maybe you forgot to add the gun bindings to the .shp way down at the bottom of the file (i gather the guns you added were turrets). That might make it work, but im not sure of the way the gun bindings function. Anyone?

[Ghent]

solution:

in the advancesupportfrigate.shp file change the refueling rate to 0.0

when ships dock they will stay docked, causing the support frigate to go into its "docking" animation and stay there. This is also the "modeled position" of the ship. An annoying quirk of homeworld is that turrets are actually animated in a way, somehow in the game engine. Because of this, turrets will NEVER work (rotate, etc) when the ship is not in it's "open" or modeled configuration. Only while the support frigate has fighters docking to it and is "open" will you ever see the turrets moving about as they should.


bum deal, i know. Took screenshots of this long ago to prove my point, but no clue where they are. Just watch closely in-game at an un-mod'd support frigate shooting at something, then dock fighters to it and observe again.

[Avatar Terminus]

its not that the guns dont work or anything, Hephaestus, and i don't think this problem is limited to the support frigate Ghent.

In accordance with my Mod plan, I took out the taiidan ion cannon frigate file. The goal was to make existing capital ships have loads of guns, of all sorts. So, I added 6 side mounted guns by fooling around with copied .mex chunks. The changes were all basic, round numbers. But they /looked/ like they should work. And I went to the .shp file, and copied the ion cannon around in the ion frigate twice. I changed these 2 new guns to weak, smallioncannon files. I'm using a modified, red version of the zenebeam from SvK's page, whatever happened to that guy anyhow? Did he just stop making new guns, or what?

Anyhow, the other four guns were copied from the taiidan light corvette (which i'd tested and proven to have worked) and converted around a little in the speed and other such things category.

To make a long story short, the game crashes whenever I do anything to anything bigger than a corvette. I've modded the mothership with new mex points, and had all the new weapons fire from the center of the ship. I tried to add new guns to the taiidan carrier and it crashed too!

Grrr...to quote the title, what the **** am i doing wrong?!?

[Delphy]

Avatar,

Can you list the steps you made, exactly, in order, to each of the files.

We can then replicate and see where, if anywhere, you have gone wrong.

Regards
Delphy

[Avatar Terminus]

Hmm... this COULD be wrong. I don't have HWSE on this computer. Does it matter exactly what values i put in? OOH!

Important note: because I fiddled with LOD0 i felt like at first maybe this wouldn't work or the guns would disappear if I zoomed out. However, the FOUR GUN support frigate appeared successfully in the build manager, but crashed after construction was complete and I tried to look at it in game.

Hmm...lets see... the first thing I did was try to figure out which value controlled what aspect of the guns...I cloned the objects for the turrets first, then made the X values negative. That way, the guns would in theory be regularly opposite from each other. However, I noticed that the guns were inordinately distant from each other. I didn't want to mess with position, I'd found that was just physical location, not direction. So, I went to Y value for the rotation and plugged in 900. The gun looked funny, so thinking that everything was in degrees, I put in 180 degrees, and 90 degrees. When eventually I found that the Y value controlled up down status, I went to the Z value and fiddled with it. I even used the same order of numbers, 900, 180, 90. When I got wierd stuff to happen, I think I made the Y value negative. I do know, however, that it did look like the turrets were regularly opposite each other. I played with it a little, making sure everything was even and the way i liked it.

I went to the mex editor and copied the chunks GUN0 and GUN1. I inverted their X values, i.e. made them negative. This got the desired result with all that tomfoolery in the Y and Z values. I then went to the .shp file and copied GUN 0 and GUN1. I opened up HWSE, and making sure i used the stats for the gun directly above each of the new guns i copied and edited names. I copied the entire file on the gun, not just the data or the brackets. I've learned to reliably .shp edit, lemme tell ya. Anyhow, being a reckless young greenhorn I open up homeworld without renaming advancesupportfrigate.new.peo/.new.mex. Imagine my feeling of stupidity. I go back, rename the original peo and mex files advancesupportfrigate.old.mex/peo/log, i think. Then i rename advancesupportfrigate.new.mex/peo/log advancesupportfrigate.mex/peo/log. The .peo editings showed up just fine in the build screen and it didn't crash when i loaded up the skirmish. I need to correct myself. The firepower value had changed, as well, so i think the .shp file is good too. But when the real support frigate was finished construction it crashed back to windows.

This may seem repetitive, but what the **** am i doing wrong?

note: insert your personal favorite loud and scary string of expletives in the **** slot.

[Delphy]

The fact that you mention having to rename the .new.mex and .new.peo means you are using an older version of HWSE.

Exactly which version do you have?

[Avatar Terminus]

well, i went to your site and downloaded hwseDebug

does that help?

[Delphy]

Yup, but that version still wouldn't require you to copy any of the files.

Essentially I changed it from 1.25 (I recall) so that it saved directly over the original PEO/MEX files.

Anyway, get 1.27r Not that it'll likely fix the problem, but it's the latest version.

Just as an aside - the SupportFrigate has MAD files associated with it. Did you try disabling the MAD animation in the SHP file? Also run HW in /debug mode and see what exactly it's crashing with.

Regards,
Delphy

[Skiewalker]

Hello,

Just so everyone knows SvK is quite busy with final projects/exams. He likely won't be messing with any HW modding until at least 2 weeks from now. I don't think he'd abandon it entirely though, just with all the time he's pouring into a Red Faction Mod (yes, Red Faction) for a class project, he hasn't had time to do anything with HW for about a month.

[Captain Pierce]

He's doing a mod for a class project?!? God, school has changed since I was there... Tell him good luck...

[Avatar Terminus]

Things seem to have suddenly reversed and gone into a dramatically new realm of crapiness for Avatar Terminus' copy(s) of Delphy's HWSE...

argh... is the only way to summarize the entire issue. Okay, trying to think up ways to occupy time and at the same time accomplish stuff for my mod I thought of doing some .peo shufflings and thereabouts. While my first wholehearted, or at least halfhearted attempt met with dismal success, I will try again multiple times before bringing it before the assembled mighty wise sages of MODding. Enough prattle, Avatar.

The issue is that I can't seem to make a lightcorvette turret at a 90 degree angle. I went to the Z rotation point, and said, "hmm! this should be a cakewalk! just a few rotation tweakings and its as right as rain!"

<hmm: on first time thru i forgot to add this potentially useful hunk o' data: i downloaded hwse127r, or whatever it is, and put it in my homeworld folder. Thumbs up to delphy for making this whole program, i just wished it work dammitall...>

Damn, was i wrong... alright. I went to lightcorvette/r10/lod0 folder and copied lightcorvette.peo. I pasted it in the repaircorvette lod folder of same title. I did a few name shufflings, mainly i renamed the original repaircorvette.peo repaircorvette.new.peo, just to keep in the spirit. Then, I renamed the newly copied lightcorvette.peo repaircorvette. Here's where stuff gets tricky. Or at least difficult to grasp. I went into the objects header and cloned corvettegun. Everything had been going peachy except for the tiny issue of the black background freaking me out because i couldn't see any mex cones or anything. Maybe we should look into "real" or at least marginally visible colors, delphy? <arches eyebrow>

Gargh! derailing myself again! My worst enemy is myself...but myself doesn't want me to shoot myself...which is him...or me...depending on which point of view you're coming from...

Contrary to popular belief, I am not writing this with grime-encrusted, dirty fingers on a stolen laptop in between labor breaks at the local insane asylum. I'm the subtle, hide-behind-the-scenes type of neurotic...

If i got any more off track I'd be in a different time zone...ALL RIGHT then. I've cloned the corvettegun. Now, I go to Z rotation, because after my amazingly, ridiculously, awe-inspiring lack of success with the advancesupportfrigate gun, and type in 90 into the cute little box and hit enter.

My eyes bug out about a foot when the turret in question zaps out of existence like a fly. After wrestling with the oddly reversed controls from homeworld norms <cough cough hack choke WHEEZE COUGH SPLUTTER INHALE KEEL OVER DYING, Delphy??> I finally zoom in and see that the accursed turret has gone directly vertical! Pointing straight up! Yargity, what an unlucky turn of luck...I know life is unfair, but goddamn it, does that mean every freaking chunk of life has to be so unbeleivably weighed with unfairness against me to this extreme...

I think I can feel the readers' interest seeping from this topic like a slowly undulating amoeba...

ANYHOW. I go to 45 in the Z-rotation box, and find it comfortably at what seems to be a little short 45 degree angle...maybe i'm imagining things but it was more like 30 degrees...I scale up in degrees by fives, and the turret inches along at about half the rate i expected it, so that 80 degrees is a convincing 45, then when i hit 120 or thereabouts the whole thing pops straight up to the top. I go back to 110 and proceed by single degrees and get the same result. I check the whole scheme with the other variables, X and Y. After plugging in suitably massive numbers like 11,000 and 900 i prove that they exist. So, for the second trademark "what the ****<-insert favored expletive here am i doing wrong" statement. Somebody is going to come up to me and say "What the **** are you doing RIGHT??!" and he'll probably be correct.

Anyhow. Fearing that somehow the computer, being that damnably illogical logic machine that it is, had sensed my motive of trying to MOD up homeworld a tad, I went to the lightcorvette file. SImilar fates awaited me. After piddling away an entire half hour, I screamed "Bloody fucking hell, let those relic bozos deal with it!" and then had to make a hasty exit as my father came into his study and promptly booted me the hell off of his computer. So here I am, asking for the relic bozos to deal with it. Or actually, tell me how to deal with it. And if someone here <hack couch choke "skiewalker"> can get within throwing distance of SvK, extend to him several thousand homeworld gamers' worth of sympathy and tell him that I wanna know all about delayed fire. Like, could he help me set up an ioncannonfire.ebg file so that the bloody munky took a few seconds to charge up? I don't want him to do the work for me, as you can all see, I know precious little about the dastardly trade of MODding. I need to retain a hold on all gems and giblets of knowledge that are thrown my way.

The Psychotic Out-of-Work Poet turned Homeworld Modder speaks! and speaks, and speaks, and speaks...yes I know, I have a tendency to yakk my ass off...

[Avatar Terminus]

Let me tell you the story of my recent adventure with modding. Seeing as that I have a weekend and a couple of seconds of free time, I decided to further my mod. Which has garnered a total of 0% interest. So, even though I have lost all hope that any modders ANYWHERE will help me AT ALL, I am continuing to post for some reason. I have no clue why. ALl I know is that I am very pissed off. And I have seen more than enough people debate about lots of fun and good stuff. But nobody, in about 5 months of this, has ever, EVER given me ANY USEFUL ADVICE. PERIOD. Maybe I'm just a "special" newbie. But from my point of view, I am wasting a SHITLOAD of my time here. but I'm going to keep at at it because I like my idea.

I just spent 4 hours looking through someone else's mistakes. I managed to get so thoroughly pissed off with this someone else's mistake that instead of going through every single goddamned .shp file in all of homeworld, I deleted my copy and started over from scratch. Because I keep hitting these MASSIVE walls where nobody in the whole wide wonderful world of homeworld modding every helps out, I have done a sum total of nothing. 5 months of constant prodding, surfing the net in my free time, has garnered me a massive amount of headaches, gien me a bunch of grand ideas that absolutely nobody payed any attention to, and when i got started on these grand ideas nobody ever really seemed to DO anything about my various pitfalls. Go take a look at the rest of this program. Do I sound like I solved my problem? No. About 11-12 replies is about as far as I always get. If someone, especially a moderator, comes in here and tells me to shut up and stop whining, I will not believe you when you say you were a homeworld newbie once. Nobody can ever EVER say that I did not try. I tried my ass off. And now I'm gonna go at it again. And I'm probably going to fail. But it was a damn good idea. And I wish it would work. If you're interested at all after this tirade, or you want to shut me the hell up, at least throw up a two or three sentence reply. At least let me know you're pretending to care.

[Delphy]

Avatar,

I'm sorry to hear that you are thinking of giving up Homeworld modding. It can certainly be rewarding in it's own way.

For me personally (and no offense meant), the main problem I have is that it takes quite a while to actually get to the meat of your posts... you mentioned yourself you have a tendancy to yakk your ass off, and this means that it's difficult for *us* to actually try and figure out just what your problem is.

Something good I do have to say is that since Pesmontis started working on the matrix code it has improved a *lot*, and the problems you experienced with the rotations should now be fixed.

However, what I would suggest perhaps when you feel like trying Homeworld modding again, is to cut down your posts to just the actual problems and what you did. This way it's a lot easier for people to actually figure out what you need and reply accordingly.

Hope this helps, and apologies if I have offended you.

Kind regards,
Delphy

[Avatar Terminus]

dont worry bout it delphy. so, should i go to yer site adn download hwse... 1.27T now, right?

I know, shut up avatar. I was feeling good then. Now I'm feeling crappy. Anyone know how to swap a heavyinerceptor for a defender? It ain;t working, I tried renaming all the .peo and .mex files there were in all the lods, doing the same in the .lod and .shp file except for the .madding section.

[Avatar Terminus]

nHmm. Not only does the heavydefender issue still stand, but what I really need is someone who can tell me how to do muzzle flashes and the like. I'm into ultrarealistic games like that. One of these examples would be me trying to make 3D muzzle flashes, and lighting from the gun barrel. Plus the DYRL gunpod effect has spent bullets flying everywhere for me, anyhow. What I really want is space debris...anyone know how to do that? MAybe if I downloaded one of SvK's hotrodded deathevents and then twekaed it so the hunks of junk hung around forever...