Was the Emperor of mankind Jesus.??...

[Gringo]

Heres a question....

Waaaaay before the golden Age, when the emperor was young, fluff talks about him wandering as a stranger around the world, moving from identity to identity, helping the needy etc etc, We DO know he was given life in Turkey on Earth around 8000 BC, created by shamens/witchdoctors of the time who sacrificed themselves to save humanity by giving their energies to one body - The New Man. "BC in this sense seems very odd in deed!"

I suppose it boils down the question of, Is the warhammer universe based on OUR Earth, or a different earth that had different events etc. I havnt read any major fluff for quite a while but remember wondering at this question?

If it is, then its very possible that the emperor WAS jesus, was crucified and then his immortality brought him back to life etc etc and then he changed his identity, forming Christianity, which could be the foundations of the Imperium's faith

He had the power to heal and ease suffering and could read minds etc..it also says in fluff throught history he took the roles of leaders, "messiahs" etc

[Draken2034]

ive often thought of this myself, like chaos could have one god that they worship and thats satan and the rest of the "gods" are just his little minions, but thats just speculation.

theres a few things wrong and out-of-place if the Emperor was Jesus. Jesus wouldnt go around killing everyone, and the Imperial Creed doesnt reflect Christianity, to name a few. It very well could be but things would be out of place and the only way to justify this fluff-wise is saying Christianity has got distorted over the millenia. But then it goes back to the thing, Jesus wouldnt be killing everyone and he couldnt die unless he chose to.

[Dimension]

i really doubt the emp was jesus. for one thing, we "know" when and how jesus was born. he aged normally. he felt allegiance to a people (the jews). the emperor is different in all these aspects. the emp also wouldn't have taken up the cause of the jews and poor people and all that because he had no motivation. back then, only a handful of lives were at stake when compared to the untold millions and billions lost and alone after the age of strife.

furthermore, jesus died, and never had children. this is also a "known" fact that does not work if you want him to be the emperor.

however, i think it might be possible that for all those aforementioned reasons, jesus might have been a gifted offspring of the emperor. except for the aging thing, he might have even been a regular sensei.

[Accaris]

No, I believe that the God-Emperor reflects the ideal of the "last man against time," as has been proposed by some historical philosophers, like Savitri Devi: http://thecensureofdemocracy.150m.co...ainst_time.htm (WARNING: pro-Nazi sentiments enclosed.) Despite his biased and obviously controversial view, Devi makes an interesting study here on the savior figure and parallel to Hindu mythology. (In addition, a comparison between the Space Marines and the nationalists isn't too far fetched.)

Also, here can be found the actual writings of the Bhagavad Gita and their analysis (4.7-8 being the key passages here): http://www.asitis.com/4/7.html

"In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium. "

Sounds pretty damn close to the Emperor to me.

[Sir Guppy]

i do bloody hope not, i think 40k should stay well away from religion and religious icons. some people may not like the suggestions that their religious icon is part of a board game in which he goes about killing aliens.

in my opinion religon and 40k should not intertwine it would just screw things up.

[Hadrian]

Remember, everything in 40K is based on something else in popular culture. That's why it draws in so many people, and people develop an affinity for certain armies. Because they all remind them of something else they like.

While the Emperor wasn't actually Jesus, quite a bit of the background fluff about him suggests very messianic properties.

[Lion El'Jonson]

it is based on out earth but 38k years into the future, in the Warhammer 40k world [differnet to the fantasy world i might add!] the times are measured in milenia, and 2000 years is not a V. long time at all, infast no one would realy seem to care in the 41'st mienium wether jesus existwed or not because we have already disproven the existence of all the known gods and realised that there were only the gods of chaos... ect ect throughout the whole of out evolution till the emperor arose.
and as far as i knwo the emperor was not created by shammans, he was infact the 9th Chaos god, banished by the others to be a mortal for some reason or another and lived on through time ever since.

[Chaos Lord]

lol religion is already a part of 40k...
all the races have their own sort of religion (yes tau do aswell,"for the greater good!")
but humanity is largly based on ghristianity, and i expect the emperor was based on jesus...(the only difference being that he is alowed to kill)

[DarthFelth]

it is based on out earth but 38k years into the future, in the Warhammer 40k world [differnet to the fantasy world i might add!] the times are measured in milenia, and 2000 years is not a V. long time at all, infast no one would realy seem to care in the 41'st mienium wether jesus existwed or not because we have already disproven the existence of all the known gods and realised that there were only the gods of chaos... ect ect throughout the whole of out evolution till the emperor arose.
and as far as i knwo the emperor was not created by shammans, he was infact the 9th Chaos god, banished by the others to be a mortal for some reason or another and lived on through time ever since.

That isnt what it says in the emprors fluff, it says he was the combined essence of all the shamans of old...

[Coey]

I for one think he was Jesus

Over the millennia the Emperor watched the human race develop. He travelled the entire globe, watching and helping, sometimes adopting the persona of a great leader or advisor. In times of trouble he became a crusader, a religious leader or messiah

He could of made the prophecy of the Messiah being born, waited a few hundred, used his IMMENSE psychic powers to fool Mary into thinking she was giving birth, and make everyone else at the stable believe it aswell. From then he could used his psychic powers to poject images of a small child growing up, going through puberty, and so on until the projection became a man, or he himself stepped in. From here he would perform miracles, healing etc. This would also explain a lot of other things like the Resurrection, and him appearing to fly up towards “God” (Which is also probably the Emperor) on that hill what name I forget.

[lucius]

anoying emperor i think the chaos gods are better

[FerociousBeast]

I think GW intended for us to think that the Emp was Jesus. I have my doubts

[Elite Guard]

It is entirely possible that he was jesus and he helped the semetic people under the oppression of Rome, then just movied on. All the stories of his birth and death could have been conjured up to explain his nomadic nature.

Or he could have allowed himself to be crucified, then simply healed and walked out of his burial cave, on to other things.

His immense psychic prowess would explain the miracles...

As to WHY the emperor would do such a thing? If anyone knows how badly humanity would need a saviour in the coming future, it would be the emperor, and what better way to bolster his strength against chaos then to have billions upon billions worship him though the years and freely give him their souls to further strengthen him for the final conflict...

[Shnabbled]

I doubt he was Jesus. There is a difference between taking the role of a religious leader and pretending to be the Son of God. Very possibly intended by GW for us to ponder, but I still doubt it.

[FerociousBeast]

Why would the Emperor do what Jesus did? Well, fluff wise, the Emp has known all along the humanity needed to get together, and so he preached peace and forgiveness. At least, this is the popular understanding of Jesus. Those who know the Bible know that this is an extreme simplification, and in some ways a misrepresentation, of his message. But I wouldn't expect GW to know that, therefore I stand by my statement that GW probably intended for us to think the Emp was Jesus, or at least suspect it, while I have my doubts.

Of course, Jesus was real and the Emp isn't, so from that perspective of course the answer would be: No. Jesus is not the Emperor.

[Sarastro]

The Emperor of Mankind was originally called Bob, a plumber from Iowa who liked Wheel of Fortune:


Bob a.k.a. Emperor of Mankind and the Universe

Shortly after this picture was taken, he decided on a new career and became Emperor, which is a long and involved story involving greased mice.

On a less serious note, if I remember my GW literature from way back when, there were several serious hints that the Emperor had in fact been Jesus and various other luminary figures through history. Believe this came from the Inquisitor series of books.

PS If you want to know where the Emperor really came from, read the Dune books, he's a complete rip-off of Mua'dib from those novels.

[Robot Jesus]

I doubt he was Jesus. There is a difference between taking the role of a religious leader and pretending to be the Son of God. Very possibly intended by GW for us to ponder, but I still doubt it.

now I’m not trying to but if this doesn’t start a flame war nothing will

Jesus never clamed to be the son of god in the gospel of mark, a book i might add was written to spread the word of Jesus among the Jews. The later gospels where written to convert the non Jewish groups. So we have Jesus being the son of god, like Hercules. born in a manger to a virgin and turning water to wine like Backus. A little white lie to spread his message (love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and that whole kingdom of god thing if interpreted as a state of mind and not a place reflects identically Buddha’s enlightenment.) But we all know how well that went through. Anyone who kills in the name of Jesus does more disservice to him then a thousand nihilists (like me)

Now back to the show, the emperor is far too warlike to have ever been Jesus, JFK on the other hand....

[Lord Chaos]

he could be jesus because jesus would have never forced ppl to fallow him it was always on there free will this guy used his power to force ppls to fallow him so therefore the emperor probly wasnt even a religious to god because he was declaring himself a god and the bible says not to do that so the whole topic contridicks itself

Double Post

sorry miss typed something i meant could not be jesus....

[Noise Marine]

this >.< is a full stop. It is your friend.

[Coey]

The Emperor wants to help humanity, saying he's too warlike to be Jesus is stupid. If at the time humanity needed a savour, then the Emperor will be that savour(spx2?).

[Davor]

The WH:40k Universe is not our own (obviously), just based on it. Weither or not the emperor was someone in our history isn't important. If you look, there's no mention of Jesus in the WH:40k fluff, so as far as I'm concernd Jesus as we know him doesn't excist in the context of 40k.
However, it's also obvious that the emperor character was partly based on the jesus persona. IE: Saviour, Eptitude of human morality, developement and all around great know-it-all. Also to match with the dark 40k theme (and just to add spice), he's blended with a will-do-anything-to-win Rambo type.

[Elite Guard]

Why should there be mention of Jesus in 40K? I mean, its fricking 40K! 40,000 years from now, I highly doubt anyone is going to remember many of the modern world religions or any messiah's or prophets that might crop up along the way. There have been countless religions stretching into history, and there will be countless more in the future. Christianity is simply another rung on a ladder that goes where no one knows.

And 40K clearly takes place in our universe. The Emperor was even born in Turkey! The 40K year gap makes it feel like an alien universe, although it is the same damn thing.

[BossThraka]

Just a little fuel for thought but has anyone ever considered that since time is a concept created by man, that maybe all this took place in the past? Perhaps after a great war the human race was all but wiped out but drove the alien threat away for now. The last humans could have grown up without technology around them (perhaps all the tanks sent away for war on distant galaxies) so grew up primitive and started all over again. Enter our own timeline as we know it. Earth as we know it could maybe not even be Terra but a planet similar and far away but with the namesake of the homeworld. Just a thought.

~Boss Thraka

[DarthFelth]

The Emperor wants to help humanity, saying he's too warlike to be Jesus is stupid. If at the time humanity needed a savour, then the Emperor will be that savour(spx2?).

Hmm, well last time he died he didnt do a very good job of coming back so i doubt he is jesus

[Cronhour]

ffs sake why get religion involved in what is an interesting game. It's pointless trying to imprint cristianity onto anything from the 40k universe as cristianity and organised religion as a whole is all third person infomation and therefore greatly unrealible, and also hugely hypocritical. Lets try and not relate everything to religion as many of us live without the crutch that is organised religion. the reason why people try and compare their interests to religion is because on some level re;igion is a comfort to them, as it allows them absolution for their mistakes and lets them devolve some of their own responsibility, making it easier to deal with what happens in their lives.

[DarthFelth]

its based round it if you hadnt noticed

[Coey]

The Emperor would make everyone believe he was being crucified, it wouldn't be beyond his powers.

[Robot Jesus]

or to simply get crusifyed and servive

[DarthFelth]

like he survived horus attacks you mean....

[Elite Guard]

Horus was an immensely powerful being imbued with almost all of Chaos' powers and even after he beat down on the emperor it took him tens of years to actually die. Until the very end he was actually conscious, directing the construction of the golden throne...

If Horus couldn't kill the emperor outright, then some nails and a roman cat-o-nine-tails ain't gon do shit.

[Coey]

Agreed.

[whats_true]

Have any of you ever read the Bible? I am a Christian and i have read the Bible many times and I’m still am. When i first purchased the Warhammer 40k rule book and read the history behind the it, i was shocked by the similarities that GW made with the Bible. Yes, GW purposely made the distinction between the emperor and the Messiah. Though i have not read a single book made by GW, just all the implications in the rule book are enough to convince me that they do portray him as being god. I mean, (this is in the 3rd edition) constantly they quote "see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil." though you guys may have more insight on this, too me, they are defiantly trying to duplicate the Bible and portray the emporer as Jesus.

any how, i hope i didn't rattle any of your tails.

[Coey]

The Emperor isn't being portryed(sp?) as just Jesus only, he's been most of the leading figures of history who stood for the good side of humanity.

[lucius]

are sm humans?? or just people who look funny? (and 8 ft tall)

[whats_true]

Hmmm, your right about that, but GW (to me) made him more of a Jesus figure than a Buda or a Mohamid. then again, Mohamid seems to be up there too.

they are geneticaly engineared humands, they are the best of the best of humands on the worlds, so they are strong and 8 ft tall...thats from what i get. :bandit:

[Davor]

They start out as normal people, then they are geneticly altered with the genes of a primarch (Geneticly Engineered super humans), and several biological implants. IE an extra heart, lung, artificial skin, stuff like that.

Also, no, warhammer & warhammer 40k doesn't take place in our past. :Slap: Yikes you guys are starting to get way too serious about fiction.

[DarthFelth]

The emperor took the roles of such figures, he was always the guy behinf the scene, and the wounds inflicted apon the emperor by horus wernt magic, it was just bitch slapping, simple as

[Coey]

They were fighting soul to soul aswell as body to body, both took quite a beating, far more than ANY other human could give him.

[DarthFelth]

im remember horus ripping one of the emperors arms off and breaking back or something

[Hadrian]

What fluff did you read?

The Emperor wasn't the man behind the scenes! He led all the crusades to recapture and bring back into the fold of humanity all of the worlds cut off by the Warp Storms. He fought several of the Primarchs in single combat, nevermind the fact that all of the Primarchs were made more or less in his image.

[DarthFelth]

actually i meant before the imperium as this thread is about wether he was jesus

[Gringo]

Knew posting this topic would stir up a hornets nest lol

Though I do find the comparisons interesting....

He could also have been Elvis, Mohammed Ali, Churchill and princess Diana maybe? J/K

[101ST_Belial]

I have seen a pic of the emperor made up to look a bit like jesus but in Power armour. Back when GW didnt care about P.C. but times have changed so they can't do it anymore.

[Iwata]

I don't remember Jesus declaring a Holy Crusade on the Romans...

'Course he's not, 'mano!!

[NightBringer]

who ever said that anyone who kills/dies in jesus' name disgraces him or what ever, is wrong. jesus slaughtered people, he smited teachers at school for shouting at him. he even said:

"i will turn father agasint son, husband against wife, brother against bother, if that is what it will take for them to belive in me"

and before any of you start flaming me or saying its not true... IT IS, it may not be written in the bible, but there is a shit load of stuff that isn't in the bible that should be. it may just be a film, but dogma had a point "in the bible, jesus goes form 12 to 30,where are all the volumes of text dipicting those 18 years"

so if you want to belive the empoere is jesus, then i'd have to agree.

tho the religious influences on the impirium are not jsut from christianity, much of it is islam aswell, if you ever read the korhan.

personally i think the emporere is more like the pope: self proclaimed (the first pope was actually the emporer of the roman empire, who saw his own empire failing so decided to make himself the head of the catholic church... hense the reformation :P) and false

[whats_true]

:yas:


one of those IT'S A CONSPIRACY people

Knew posting this topic would stir up a hornets nest lol

when this gona be locked

[Johan 72109]

who ever said that anyone who kills/dies in jesus' name disgraces him or what ever, is wrong. jesus slaughtered people, he smited teachers at school for shouting at him. he even said:

"i will turn father agasint son, husband against wife, brother against bother, if that is what it will take for them to belive in me"

and before any of you start flaming me or saying its not true... IT IS, it may not be written in the bible, but there is a shit load of stuff that isn't in the bible that should be. it may just be a film, but dogma had a point "in the bible, jesus goes form 12 to 30,where are all the volumes of text dipicting those 18 years"

so if you want to belive the empoere is jesus, then i'd have to agree.

tho the religious influences on the impirium are not jsut from christianity, much of it is islam aswell, if you ever read the korhan.

personally i think the emporere is more like the pope: self proclaimed (the first pope was actually the emporer of the roman empire, who saw his own empire failing so decided to make himself the head of the catholic church... hense the reformation :P) and false

Errr... Jesus said the line you mentioned, except for the bit, 'if that is what it will take for them to believe in me.'
The line means that people will die because of what Jesus said, and people will be persecuted, because they believe in him. And it happened.

[whats_true]

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[firefly31]

i rekon that in a way that the gw ppl didn't plan the emporer is jesus, for instance jesus came to save humanity whats the emporer trying to do? save humanity. lemme think... oh yeah i picked up a load of stuff saying that the emporers spirit is the star child, i've heard that when the emporer dies he will be reborn as the star child. god only knows if this is true but that would be the bit where jesus comes back from the dead, cleaver huh? i think that was a good argument from me considering time and music

[Thrud]

Hmm

I doubt that the emperor would have done the things Jesus did.

Lets suppose Jesus was real. Back then, could there be any way to know that his actions would be documented and read 2000 years later? Jesus didnt actually do an awful lot on a grand scale in his own life time. Its only what followed afterwards.

And what did follow? Thousands of years of religious wars and biggotry!

Not a great shout for the Emperor, if he was all of these so called prophets and saviours. He was meant to unite humanity, not tear it into two.

I reckon that the Emperor was really Pontius Pilate...

"Jesus, this town aint big enough for two saviours. Now get on that cross!!!"

No Jesus - would have saved how many lives? Perhaps the Emperor was Herrod? "Snuff him out before he does any damamge....".

No, I reckon if the Emperor was alive back then, he wold have left well alone with religion. Its is the one quick way to stunt technological and social growth, that humnity needs to survive the universe.