It looks like the high collision damage is a feature rather than a bug. Will 4.3 include an "Anti Drunk Driving" research for Marine pilots? :drive:
It looks like the high collision damage is a feature rather than a bug. Will 4.3 include an "Anti Drunk Driving" research for Marine pilots? :drive:
Scarletomato: those are *ahem* "graphic" shots. There might be kids reading this forum, watch what you post! Not everyone wants to see the mating rituals of the battlecruiser and carrier. :wise:
I've created a Homeworld 2 blog.
Hope you enjoy it!
LOL!!! Wow, now that I see it that way... That could be taken in so many directions. But I won't. I'll just say that he does seem a happy fellow firing up those Ion Cannons :heyhey:
Cool MS shot in your blog BTW. Where'd those Battlescars come from?
Well I started just wanting to put some pics online, and then I figured I should write a little thing about what was happening with each.. and that turned into a sort of story. So the story on the page describes what was going on to cause all that damage on the mothership.
ok, so I just played a long battle as Vaygr against my friend who was Hiigaran, and the Vaygr have no chance at all in the late game. None at all. I don't mind limiting the research upgrades the way they are now, but the Vaygr need to be able to build more ships to compensate. There were literally no resources left on the map and consequently I couldn't win. In the late game, it takes a huge number of ships to even get close to a win.. my friend blew though 16-20 of my battlecruisers, and the closest I got to winning was destroying almost all of the defenses around his mothership. Perhaps upgrades that reduce production costs might help... or something... sheesh...
I too find the Vaygr are too weak compared to the Hiigarans in this mod. They lack the punch of the Hiigs in later games.
It was yesterday, when I started my second Complex battle. Played the Hiigaran and started with 5 resourcers. The Vaygr had already built around 7-8 destroyers, a shipyard and, say, 3-4 dozens of corvettes and fighters, not to speak of platforms, frigates, the cruise missile and other stuff I couldn't figure out.
I had 4 destroyers and about 2 dozens of fighters and corvettes.
And I had not the smallest chance.
So, here the Vaygr are completely over-powerd. Now have look on the previous posts ... where the Hiigaran were completely over-powered.
Obviously, I've missed something.
You probably didn't want to risk the battle because you thought that numbers and amount of fire will win a war. ONE of these :hover: can kill 10 of these :vikingb:
I too have trouble winning. Although i can hold them off with some pulsar vettes and the mother ship's torpedos. I still haven't won a game though
OK guys, if you're Hiigaran and you want to kill a vaygr CPU (or a whole map full of them), here's all you need to do:
Resourcing comes first: Your goal in this game is really to be the resourcing king, killing the other players is just added fun. Don't even think of attacking a CPU until you've played for at least an hour and a half. Don't worry, your game should be over by two hours.
Pick and choose: Don't build all types of units. Recognize what roles you need filled (anti-fighter, anti-frigate, anti-capital) and pick one type of ship that can handle that role. Only research upgrades for those ships. Don't bother with the rest of the tech tree, its just a waste of money, especially early on.
Play defensive: What do you want early on? Would you rather have 8 flak frigates or 48 gun turrets? Which will defend your base better? Turrets are a must for a Hiigaran player mostly because they don't affect your population cap much. In the late game, all the frigates in the world don't have a chance against a wall of 20-40 ion turrets. You shouldn't build any units except resourcers and turrets until your first population cap upgrade, and then you should go straight to ion destroyers and ion turrets.. after you build 1 carrier, of course. Let the carrier take over your harvesting operation, salvage harvesting and platform controllers from the mothership and replace them by more useful modules.
Reasearch, reseach, research: How do you win? Is it by getting that battlecruiser out 45 minutes into the game? Of course not. If you rush for battlecruisers, or any other particular unit, you'll neglect other upgrades that are absolutely essential to your survival. You want to establish a pattern of research that gives you good results. Typically this means researching harvesting upgrades first and asap, defensive upgrades next, then fire upgrades, and finally new ships. Only deviate from this routine when you can up your population cap, when the ion destroyer becomes researchable, and when the shipyard/battlecruiser become researchable.
All you really need is the Mothership: This strategy is unique to this mod. In the late game, the fully upgraded mothership can kill every single thing on the map all by itself. If you have other units at this point, well thats just a bonus for you! The AI is not smart enough to target the mothership ion cannon with its anti-subsystem fighters, so no worries for you.
Remember, its a CPU: AI is AI. Its not going to outwit you, so don't worry about it coming up with some ingeneous plan to kill you off. The best AI players build a disproportionate number of marine frigates and start a perpetual frigate assault against you. This is one reason platforms are useful, they can't be captured! If you make it to the late game, following these strategies, you've won!
Last edited by Dostillevi; 2nd Feb 06 at 11:08 AM.
Good strat Dostillevi! I, too, was having trouble with the AI seinding 3+ destroyers at me with 10+ missile frigs when I had a really small force ^_^ (tho, this was Higgy versus Higgy).
One question: What's the research requirement for the Maintenance Fee Lowering Research? I was playing with a friend against a few CPU, and he got several levels of Maint. Down, while I _NEVER_ got one. I think this may have been due to the fact that I have the MEgalith, but in the end my Yearly Maintenance was over 1,000 RU's! Am I correct in assuming you get Maint. Down only when your Yearly Maint. is a specific percentage of your yearly income?
yeh, the Hiigs are very overpowered. An upgraded battlecrusier can dismantle fleets of bombers and corvettes like nobody's business. My mothership can handle decent waves of anything thrown at her. I find it very rare to need strike craft when playing Complex. I usually build a couple shiri to take out the scouts and probes, but that's about it. I mean really, the MS has a geat aim with those hulldef gunzs, torpedoes, and an Ion cannon! The battlecrusier is loaded with pulsars, flaks, and rapid fire cannons. It's not vulnerable to strike craft anymore.
My strategy is always go after the MS defence upgrades first. Then I can build my fleet in her shadow.
Of course, the strategy I just suggested is only good against the AI.
I played my friend again just now, (both Hiigaran) in a 1vs1, and I pwned him in half an hour. How? Well, first I looked at the number of resource points on the starting asteroid group (8) and realized that we would both have to build secondary resource operations in the early game. Knowing that my friend is used to building platforms early on (aka the strategy I posted), I built a small group of 4 bomber squadrons and destroyed his harvesting operation. From then on, it was an easy win. Even more important than finding a good strategy is knowing how to switch it up in different circumstances. For example:
small/medium map with medium asteroid groupings, 1vs1: Fighters, particularly bombers, are a must in the early game. Whoever manages the early game well will win. Go from fighters to frigates and the game should be over before anyone has destroyers.
small/medium map with large asteroid groupings, 1vs1: This is a bit of a longer game, because you can't easily hit a resource operation early on. Build corvettes in case your opponent tries fighters. You don't need a second resourcing operation until after your first pop-cap upgrade, so building corvettes is an effective way to limit any early game conflict. Don't ever build fighters, because you simply can't take on the mothership that early. Go from corvettes to destroyers, and mix in some platforms. Don't build as many platforms as you would in a longer game, though, because mobility becomes more important on smaller maps (its true, even if it sounds counter-intuitive). This game should end with destroyers.
Large map with medium asteroid groupings, 1vs1: Corvettes are an absolute must in this game. You have no choice but to expand to a second resource operation in the early game, but the map is too large for a bomber assault on your opponent. By the time they would arrive at your opponent's resource operation, any reasonable opponent would already have defenses in place. Use your corvettes to guard your second resourcing operation until you can position platforms there. Use platforms alone to guard your mothership. No one can succeed in the early game on such a map, so optimizing research and build capacity is essential. Get a decent fleet of destroyers and then a lot of battlecruisers. This game is moderately defensive. Use whatever offensive strategy seems useful at the time to defeat your opponent. Resource operations are vulnerable in the late game, so building a late game fast strike force of bombers can be very effective, and they double as anti-subsystem ships.
Large map with large asteroid groupings, 1vs1: This is the ultimate defensive game (in 1vs1). The first resourcing operation you have can last you for a while, but all you want to build is platforms in the beginning. Move them to the next place you want to resource from once you start building resourcers to harvest there, and make sure you always have the necessary forces to defend every place you hold. Hyperspace inhibitors are very important, and you should position your ships with inhibitors in a manner that prevents the enemy from getting anywhere near your mothership. Large fleet conflicts are bound to happen, so make sure you have your big ships as upgraded as possible. Finally, make sure you can destroy subsystems. Battlecruisers are helpless without them, and destroying your opponent's mothership ion cannon will often give you the win. Turn your mothership into a mobile weapons platform, and use it as an offensive weapon. Just stay away from your opponent's mothership with your own until their cannon is destroyed.
Great notes from you, Dostillevi. I think I wait for 4.3 and then do another trajectory traversal analysis and see if Hiigarans can still overpower by 405%.
FleetCommand could you please explain that "overpower by 405%"?
Because I mean that any mod, as well as the original games, is(?) balanced in that sense that equivalent ships have the same power. Or does it make sense that, e.g., a race_1_destroyer is considerably stronger than a race_2_destroyer? Also, I assume that this holds for build times too.
Can anyone of the Complex crew be so kind to give me some idea to what amount the mod really is overpowered and what constitutes unbalance in your mind?
Edit: Just watching my minelayer, building a vertical square of mines, I wonder why those mines, obviously, have a limited life time: roughly, building a mine row n, on row n-2 all mines disappear! What's that?
Last edited by Babbo; 3rd Feb 06 at 12:51 AM.
Try this,open the Missile folder and find the HGN_MINE file.
Go down to this line:
Change it to this:
That should make the mines last through an entire game.
strange...as wonderfull as it may be,i'm still...up here... floating...and no one even seems to notice.
Thank you, adamstrange! But, originally, I was interested whether this non-permanent feature was really intended by the Complex team?
Didn't the mines dissappear in normal HW2? I can't remember exactly...
Yes, mines disappear faster in normal HW2... Complex 4.3 available tomorrow
Yes!!! Now i think that my computer's lag might be entirely eradicated with the update!! All Hail Beghins, The Creator! :bow:
I found a very bad bug me thinks. I accidentally told my MS to jump too close to the megalith asteroid(actually about halfway in it) and I couldn't command her for the rest of the game. Couldn't get her to stop, put up her shield, nuthin. Didn't know if this was a complex glitch or a HW2 in general glitch. But I thought I'd mention it here since I was playing Cmplx
Other than that, nice improvement:tooth:
I found a bug. On Lonely Islands, the Vaygr capital ship is prone to hyperspace into a piece of debris and get destroyed at the beginning of the game. It happened to me, and then it happened to a CPU player. I don't know if this bug also affects the Hiigarans.
I like the radiation suggestions a page or two ago, but here's a really easy way to win against a Vaygr CPU:
Play against a single CPU on a map such as Bentus flat nebula, where there's a radiation cloud directly between you and the enemy. When I tried this the CPU built up a strike force, sent it directly towards me and they all perished before they could even reach me. They did this again, and again and again, and I never got attacked once. I built up a nice fleet, hyperspaced in and took out all the ships it had, but took pity and left the enemy MS, a destroyer and two resource collectors. It then got stuck in a loop of using the RU it had to build a 3rd collector, which it sent to the next nearest asteroid cluster, in a radiation cloud. It did this again and again and got nowhere because it was just wasting its RU. It also couldn't get to the megalith, also in a nebula radiation cloud thing.
So perhaps beghins, could you teach the enemy AI what nebulae do, and maybe give the Vaygr some anti-radiation field upgrades like the Hiigarans do? They can't even put anti-radiation subsystems on their carriers.
Another thought: I was discussing missile frigates with my friend, and we came to the conclusion that their missiles are too accurate vs strike craft. Its very difficult to assault a group of missile frigates with strike craft as it stands right now, and that doesn't really make sense to me. There's really no need for flak frigates because missile frigates can kill the fighters themselves. I'd recommend reducing the accuracy of the missile frigates vs strike craft (fighters and corvettes) to about 75% of what it is now.
Comple 4.3 available.
I've considered and fixed a lot of improvements and bugs above, thanks.
Your download seems corrupted. I can't finish it. The one time I did, it said the .big file was corrupted. But then again, I've been having internet trouble all day. Just thought I'd let you know about a potential problem.
Zip is ok. Site is congested. Use resumable download manager for connection resets.
I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but with 4.2 and 4.3 my game crashes about an hour after I start playing. Up until then, there are no performance problems or glitches. The first part of the error log for the last crash is:
Does anyone know what might be causing this? After looking over the forums quickly, I seem to be the only one having this problem.Homeworld2.exe caused an Access Violation in module Homeworld2.exe at 001b:00500992.
Error occurred at 2/5/2006 16:33:58.
Homeworld2.exe, run by Jay Kubica.
Microsoft Windows XP?.
1 processor(s), type 586.
1024 MBytes physical memory.
Read from location 00000074 caused an access violation.
MiniDump saved to file 'C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\2-5-2006_16_33_58_MiniDump.dmp'
EAX=00000000 CS=001b EIP=00500992 EFLGS=00010212
EBX=0eef2de8 SS=0023 ESP=0012f634 EBP=0012f650
ECX=0ecfae80 DS=0023 ESI=0eef3778 FS=003b
EDX=0000000a ES=0023 EDI=0ecf9e7c GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 78 74 83 ff ff 0f 95 c0 83 ff ff 88 46 0d 0f
0x00500992: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()
Did you set your hw2.log to read-only? Also, do you have the latest video drivers for your card?
Yes to both. My log file is read only and my Nvidia GeForce 5200 drivers are the latest.
my roommate has had an issue similar to Gillligann's, that his computer occasionally crashes durning gameplay, and also occasionally we lose our connection to each other during multiplayer games. I dunno if this is a mod issue or not though.
My thought is that the crash is in some way related to the mod, since I've played vanilla Homeworld and various mods for a long time now with no similarly consistent crashes. While running this mod, every game I've played has crashed to desktop approximately one hour after the game starts.
A couple questions:
1. What do resource megaliths do? Do I just capture it and it generates RUs?
2. What can I do with the shuttle other than watch it get blown up?
Your problem sounds like your hardware is overheating. I had the same thing happen to me when the fan died on my video card. If you have any temperature monitoring software for your motherboard/cpu/gpu then run it to see if you are overheating anything (the mod adds a lot so it increases the load on your system).
Resource Megaliths not only have to be captured, but you must dock up to 10 Resource Collectors with them. You will recieve 1,000 RU's per RC (to a total of 10,000) per year from the Megalith (the RC's stay docked the entire time).
2. RTFM. It's a feature still in the conceptual stages... To quote the manual:
Shuttle unit is not complete (it is buildable but doesn't work), it has been thought as an heavy transport and may be it will be available in Complex 5.0;
real time cinematic works only for the Hiigaran race and may have some bugs, they will be fixed in Complex 5"
So, yah, don't bother with it right now.
I still get a crash when creating a new character and trying to change the options or clicking the "Gameplay" tab in the options menu. Ya might try looking at the formatting for the Gameplay section of the default player script.
Loved 4.2 - vast improvement - icons are great - game setup options for resourcing and RUs are great. Would personally like even more setup options (eg. carrier-only games, start with other types of ship) but that's not essential. Downloading 4.3 now. Thanks for getting me more fun out of a game I'd long discarded
If you're interested, I just finished my 2nd Complex battle on a 2-player map called Foundry. It was me (Hiigaran) against the CPU (Vaygr). It lasted 6.5 hours, I harvested 752806 RUs (CPU 843635), I built 490 ships (CPU 686) and killed 557 (CPU 310) ... shortly it was a so exciting and amazing battle, but it was enormous, huge too... Note that it was on Complex 4.2. Some questions and notes I have, follow:
- My fully researched battlecruisers seemed only be willing to hyper-jump if they're "in the mood", although the hyperspace sub-modules were ok (and the research station was alive at that time). And, if they did, in most cases, the hyperspace sequence was halted, leaving the ship somewhere in no-mans-land.
- Battlecruiser cloaking, especially the switching between on and off, doesn't always work.
- What actually happens, when my research ship gets killed (as it was the case in the last hour)? Are there also technologies gone, e.g. the hyperspace or the cloak ability already installed in a cruiser?
- Although my research ship - as mentioned - was killed in the end, I could research the 5/6 recruiting crew (but nothing else)!? I re-built it, but the old research options, which remained before the killing, were gone. Can the core re-activate research or do I have to re-build research divisions and start from scratch ?
- Assigned control groups have gone lost.
- The viper missiles behave rather unusual too: sometimes they accept an attack command, sometimes they do not.
- I built the so-called core, but what does it do? (Re-build the momship in case that it is killed?)
- Occasionally, some battlecruisers could be clicked, but they refused to move, although their engines were fine.
- How many sub-modules can be built in a battlecruiser or in the momship?
- Generally, as you've probably noticed, the sub-module management confuses me, since the availability appears to depend on complex connections that I have not completely understood yet.
- Frigates, again completely strengthened, usually are killed within seconds by an enemy cruiser. I mean, I lost about 20 marine frigates... :-(
- Don't know what to do with destroyers: too slow for fighters, to weak for cruisers (again: even if they are fully armed!)
- I was too stupid to figure out how to un-lock the repair feature of collectors (but I think, I had it in my first game).
- The re-load of some in-between game savings doesn't work (HW2 and with it the whole PC freezes).
- Often the re-load of in-between game savings resulted in a complete dark map (where ships could be hardly seen). Workaround: save and re-reload and colours are back again.
- May I politely ask for a Complex icon - that would be great?!
Sorry if that was a little long, but, hopefully, it may be useful for all of us. Finally, please have my usual thanks too. I start getting familiar with your work and it is pure fun! Even if there are things I do not understand and/or some bugs too. Looking forward to your feedback if you find some time, which would be great.
To have access to the researches you'd need to rebuild all the required research modules on the research station.
To get the resourcer repair, you need a repair module on one of your ships and the necessary research module.
I generally use Destroyers for anti corvette/frigate maneivers, and as help with cpaitals. Ion Destroyers are what you want to take on Capitals, tho.
Mothership can build 4 module (note this include the Platform Control Module AS WELL AS the stuff in the modules sectiuon) as well as all build module (except for the platform control module).
The only module interdependencies are as follows:
Mothership Defense Field:
Requires Defense Control Module
Mothership Heavy Ion Cannon:
Requires Attack Control Module
So if you want BOTH the Defense field and Ion Cannon, you will have to build Def. Control, Att. Control, Def. Shield, Ion Cannon; This will use ALL slots on mothership, so you'll have to buill all others on Carrier/Shipyard. (please note you CAN recycle modules)
Mothership also has another unique module... Power Disruptor. Not sure about requirements, but it's nice if you don't want the Def. Shield/Ion Cannon combo.
BC can build 2 modules.
As for youyr BC's not hypering, were they ALL in range of a hyper module,a dn did you have enough RU's to jump? Sounds odd to me... haven't experienced that, but then I don't build BC's much... My friend does tho.
Yesm viper missiles behave erratically for me in 4.2. They'll take an attack command but sometimes decide to attack something else...
I'll look into making an icon for Complex. Does Complex have a logo or anything yet?
That's not true. The mothership has 4 modules, plus a seperate spot for the ion cannon and a seperate slot for the defense field.
The power disruptor is nice, but I find its better to have the repair module on the mothership. Better to keep your own forces in the fight.
I take back what I said about expert AI being easy. They used to be in earlier versions, but with Complex 4.2 and 4.3, the AI is relentless. I underestimated it in a 1 on 1 after I had dominated it in the early game, and it came back to crush me later on. It definitely cheats to do this, and I made the mistake of thinking that taking out its resourcing operations repeatedly would slow it down. In particular, it used a variety of Vaygr corvettes, and I have yet to find a Hiigaran ship that can effectively stop them. I expected it to go for frigates so I built sniper frigates, but instead it didn't attack with anything except corvettes and fighters for over an hour. Once it switched to frigates, though, destroyers and battlecruisers came very soon after. I have to go back and try this again, because its an excellent challenge and the AI plays very well. I just wish I could produce fleets as insanely fast as the AI does.
Bombers were by far the most effective ship I could build. Shiry fighters died too quickly, and they seem to have trouble targeting corvettes.. from what I saw this has something to do with the way they fly around.. the Shiry's can't get the corvettes in their sights very well. Intruders seemed almost pointless. They were both weak and had horrible accuracy. Bombers were much more effective at killing corvettes than the intruders were, which doesn't make much sense, since intruders are anti-corvette/frigate.
Anyway, it was a fun and surprising game, and I'll be doing it again soon.
I've taken a look at my video card and temperature and it seems to be doing fine. I tested some more with the mod, and noticed that if I save right before the hourly crash, then reload after the crash, the game will still crash at the same point. For example, if I save 2 minutes before a crash and reload, the reloaded game will crash in just 2 minutes. Also, when I reload I get a different background, something which hasn't happened in vanilla Homeworld or other mods. Any ideas?Your problem sounds like your hardware is overheating. I had the same thing happen to me when the fan died on my video card. If you have any temperature monitoring software for your motherboard/cpu/gpu then run it to see if you are overheating anything (the mod adds a lot so it increases the load on your system).
Thanks for the info, Dostillevi. I thought those used slots ^_^ Now I can build a better Mothership!
Eh... if THAT'S the case... I dunno. I've had games go over 3 hours and others have had them go longer. Mmmm.... I don't really know what could be causing that sort of crash... Can you post one of your saves so we can take a look at it?
I wish I could post it, but I don't seem to have the ability to post attachments to the forum... maybe its because I only recently registered.
Gillligann, try disabling anti-virus software. It may or may not help. Also try closing as many applications as possible before playing the game. Update windows fully, and get the latest drivers for everything (particularly sound). I believe sound drivers are often overlooked when such issues occur.
All my drivers and whatnot are updated, and I've tried it without virus software running. I tried reinstalling Homeworld from scratch, then adding the mod fresh, but I still get a crash about one hour into it. This only seems to happen with Complex 4.0 and later though. I tried Complex 3.0 and that never crashed well beyond one hour. Whatever the problem is, I'm thinking its something that was introduced between the two versions.
Notes on my first match with 4.3:
I was Higgy versus one Hard Higgy.
Enemy was rather tactical, building up forces and waiting for me to leave base to attack my base... Was a hard fight for a while.
NOTE: Enemy at one point hypered a fleet into my base. This included their RESEARCH SHIP. WTH?!
Viper Missiles seem broken. Sometimes they work great, and sometimes they can't hit their target (keep going over the top or whatnot) and sometimes when they hit they do little to no dammage...
If you create Viper missiles with your mothership you can NEVER hyper it again. It will keep respawining Vipers EVEN IF THE PLATFORM MODULE IS DESTROYED/RECYCLED! The mothership will NOT hyper if it's in the process of respawning Vipers, and at max capacity (12) this takes a LONG time to respawn them all. I told my Mothership to hyper but it just sat there while respawning Vipers, getting EATEN ALIVE by the swarms of bombers and stuff the enemy had on it. It did not fire back, and I couldn't select the mothership to cancel the jump. I had to wait for the vipers to respawn and let it hyper before I got control again. This was VERY annoying, as it almost cost me my Mothership AND extended the game for at least 30 min if not an hour. Bu, yah, other than that it was good.
Try stay in dock from launch manager?
my recommendation for icons is to avoid text if at all possible. It would be better to create a variation of the default homeworld icon, or something, to represent homeworld complex.
I'll try stay in dock. Never thought about that ^_^
Yah, I was trying to avoid text, since it's rather hard to do on an icon, but Complex doesn't really have a logo or anything... Hmmm.....
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