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An open letter to Relic and the denizens of this board.

  1. #1
    I do all my own stunts Dan Van Crone's Avatar
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    An open letter to Relic and the denizens of this board.

    To be honest I wanted to email this letter solely to Alex Garden, but since turning up his email address somewhere on the net has proven difficult I'm posting it here instead in the hope that it might find it's way into the hands of the Relic devs.

    I just completed Homeworld not more than 20 minutes ago. You're probably wondering what took me so long. I first bought the game about a week after it was released and attacked it with great fervour. I played up to Rocks and Shoals and failed the mission on my first attempt. I was a little frustrated since my progress until that point was very much unfettered. I decided to take a break, got distracted and here I am 3 years later.

    About a week ago I was watching Platoon which opens with Barber's Adagio for Strings. Immediately I thought of Homeworld and the choral version of that piece which accompanies the opening of the game. The next day I searched through my closet and found my copy of Homeworld and I sat down and leafed through the manual.

    It was just as I remembered it - a flawless tome if information and lore which set the scene of the Homeworld universe very nicely. Reading the manual turned into reinstalling the game which in turn led to many, many hours since working my way back to Rocks and Shoals and beyond until tonight where I finally rested at the keyboard watching the ending sequence.

    In my opinion Homeworld transcends the mere label of "entertainment" and is the first game I've played that approaches "art". It excels in every department. At rest the music is serene and augments the sensation of vastness (and loneliness) that one must feel floating in the abyss of space. When the action heats up, instead of some contemporary pounding rock music we hear tribal beats which so aptly capture the tension of the moment, but also harkens back to the base human simplicity of war. It's raw, and a divine juxtaposition - "advanced" and "enlightened" races far ahead of us that still engage in barbaric conflict.

    The voice acting is superb - especially the nebula missions in the Garden of Kadesh. The delivery of the Kadesh ambassador - a staggered, staccato manner which swept from wistful to fierce in the space of a few words was chilling. Instead of coming right out and making the Kadesh seem crazy, it created a "something's not right here" vibe which is much more disturbing.

    Also during the Kadesh negotiations, when invited to join the Kadesh in their garden, there was a moment where Karan spoke up. She had to decline. They were on their own path and couldn't join the Kadesh. The remorse in her voice was tangible. I could feel her sadness, due to both turning down the Kadesh and from the realisation that she knew her reply would lead to conflict.

    The graphics, F/X and interface of the game are absolutely amazing to me - and bear in mind I've had another 3 years to grow accustomed to the latest improvements and innovations in game design, but I still think Homeworld towers above them. I'm not going to dwell on this point however - I'm not as well equipped to comment on technical aspects.

    I'm sure some people who read this will probably think I'm investing too much sentiment in a computer game, and that's fair enough. I often ridicule people who express enthusiasm for things I can only find disdain in - pen-and-paper RPG's and the like - I'm not perfect.

    But... yeah... I just clocked Homeworld and it's had a profound effect. Not life altering; I'm not going to turn left instead of right, quit smoking or foster a starving Ethiopian, but I'll always remember the game and remember that it made me feel something deeper than just excited while I played it.

    Now that I've appropriately embarrassed myself, I think I'll be moving on.

    That is all.

  2. Technical Help Senior Member Modding Senior Member Homeworld Senior Member  #2
    www.relicnews.com ÜberJumper's Avatar
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    *nodding in total understanding*

  3. #3
    kiith'sa sajuukar's Avatar
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    Wow, that is really deep... to me, it was life altering tho... denied me a few more days of life
    :angel:

  4. #4
    APOLLO(SLS)
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    Been there, done that DVC. HW was truly an inspiring game. One which I still enjoy playing 2-3/4 years after I first bought it. Thank you for your...errrrr...testimonial

  5. #5
    Thrawn
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    Homeworld is amazing. Simply amazing. Yes, you are dead on when you say it is a work of art. I completely agree.

    I am not an overly emotional person. I am hardly emotion at all when it comes to things i am removed from, i.e. books, movies, games, past time periods, etc.

    But HW really shook up. I mean.. really shook up. I read the manual the day i got it (Christmas, '99), and fell in love with the story. I played it later that night, and i almost cried (yes, cried) when Adagio playedand the MS launched, and again when Kharak burned.

    One, and only one, other thing that has ever done such a thing to me is Saving Private Ryan. Homeworld ranks up there in my list of the Greatest Things Ever.

    Note: I want a Homeworld movie!

  6. #6
    Worst.Religion.Ever. Dyntheos's Avatar
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    DVC you may have insight as to why this community is so tight. Such a game attracts and holds a certain type of person, and it also impresses a certain type of gamer.

    It's a pity you didn't see WON around 99/2000 at it's height.

  7. #7
    I do all my own stunts Dan Van Crone's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your kudos and kindred thoughts.

    It IS too bad that I never explored WON when the game came out. I wanted to, but at the time I was living in a relatively remote part of Australia and although I had net access it was atrociously slow.

    However a few nights ago I was taking a break from the single player campaign to try some multiplayer online. I ended up getting involved in a 5 player game. It was fantastic, and despite my constant assertations that I was a hopeless MP newbie the other players didn't give me any hassles at all. In fact after the game one of the guys invited me into a 1v1 to show me a few techniques that work for him.

    The comeraderie of the HW fans is evident and I can't wait for HW2 to be released to that perhaps this time I can be in the middle of the community when it's at it's peak.

    It occurred to me once I went to bed after writing that post that I had forgotten an excellent word to describe the appearance of Homeworld - "majesty".

    That is all.
    Last edited by Dan Van Crone; 7th Jun 02 at 2:45 AM.

  8. #8
    Cows & Guns Vaarok's Avatar
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    A newblood on the forum that gets it. I'm impressed with your words as well. Nicely written.

    This is why there are occasional conflicts with other newbloods that want Death Stars and Siege Cannons and god knows what else, because they want the game part to be different.

    Homeworld was about game in story in context.

    Really, I think it was the best example of the synergy that makes interactive entertainment better than linear entertainment.

  9. #9
    Great letter, and i absolutely agree. Anyway i hope you stick around here til Homeworld 2 is released. This community always needs more members like yourself.


    soul.
    "O xein angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tede
    keimetha tois keinon rhemasi peithomenoi"

  10. #10
    entrippy
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    I don't really feel equipped to answer, as I'm working on HW2, but I didn't work on Homeworld. All I can say is that a number of the members of the HW team are present again on HW2. They are a fantastic group of people to work with - and they do appreciate the feedback. I'll point this thread out to those who don't usually read the forums - cheers.

  11. Child's Play Donor General Discussions Senior Member Homeworld Senior Member The Workshop Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #11
    Not wearing pants. reki's Avatar
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    what a lovely thread. i commend you on one of the most eloquent inaugural postings ive ever read on these forums, thx Dan Van Crone - stick around

  12. #12
    APOLLO(SLS)
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    Here, here reki. We need several dozen more like him in the community.

  13. #13
    Gravwell Freak
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    Nice post and it matches my own feelings about homeworld almost perfectly.

    Even after playing it for more than 2 years i still like it, although i don't have much time for games atm. Should be better next month after exams though and i think i'm gonna play single player again.

  14. #14
    AlexG
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    Thanks...

    Hey DVC,

    Although many people wonder if we really pay attention to what you all think about the games we make, I have to tell you that feedback from the users of the game means more to us than any other form of feedback.

    I was really touched by what you wrote as it in many ways summed up how we felt about Homeworld when we were making it. Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts about the game. This is a post that I will keep saved for the times when I wonder if the work that we do is really important to people.

    All I can really say in reply is that we're going to make sure that Homeworld2 lives up to your expectations, and on behalf of the Homeworld1, and Homeworld2 teams, thanks!

    .alex

  15. #15
    I do all my own stunts Dan Van Crone's Avatar
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    *immensely humbled*

    I'm so thrilled that Alex took the time to come and read my post. I guess I got my wish in the end.

    What's more important is that he not only got to read my opinion but he would have read all these other terrific posts from forum members that express similar feelings about HW.

    I'm also grateful for all the people that have commented not only on what I've said but also how I said it. Thanks for the props.

    The fact that it seems he created an account on the board for the sole purpose of acknowledging our appreciation only serves to reinforce the warmth I feel for HW and the Relic team.

    Relic cares about the fans. This is a good thing.

    That is all.
    Last edited by Dan Van Crone; 7th Jun 02 at 3:03 PM.

  16. #16
    frstkor13
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    *makes thread sticky*

  17. #17
    CruiserCarrier
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    I felt the same way with HW.... Though it didn't change my life, it ruined it....It addicted and hooked me all the way up to Higgara.... if HW2 is better, it'll be an instant classic. Great post!

  18. #18
    Mr.Popo
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    DVC, you do not understand how much I love you. Not only did you make an intelligent and true post as a new guy, but you partially ensured that HW2 is not going to be another Star Trek wannabe. I LOVE YOU MAN.

  19. #19
    ARF_Gandalf
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    Oh yes.

    Yes indeed.

    I just bought the game a few days ago. My son had told me to buy some 2 yrs ago. To be honest, i doubt if the computer i had back then would have done justice to it.

    Being a die-hard SF freak, the game appealed to me immediately. I was not ready for the completeness and authenticity of the story and the scenario history. All i can say is WELL DONE. KUDOS.

    Once i get past the point of losing to the computer in CPU skirmishes, i will be online for some MP action.

    Right now, i am in the Cathedral of Kadesh, and well, phew.

  20. #20
    One Wheeled Robot Vijil's Avatar
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    Stunning piece of work

    I've never been much of an eloquent writer, instead focussing almost exclusively on the art side of things. DVC, your letter basically sums up what I've been trying to draw for the last three years.

    The impression I get from your post and all the others is that hw was a nearly religious experience, encompassing a story so profound and absorbing that I *still* get emotional on the single player. No other game has ever held me in such wrapt awe, nor made me very nearly piss myself on many occasions.

    - Even after seeing that brilliant opening sequence almost a hundred times.

    About the voice acting, I think I have posted on that in other places a few times. I found it hard to believe that a mere computer game could contain such talent... What really hit me was the feeling in the guys voice (I cant remember his name, he talked to you along with Karan Sjet during all the missions) when Kharak was burning. I had thought of him as such a hard man up till then, so calm and calculating during the first raider attack, but you could practically hear the tears running down his face. Stunning.

    Majestic, yes.

    Beyond mere "coolness".

  21. #21
    Old Ironsides Ash's Avatar
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    I one told a friend that Homeworld was "atmospheric"

    He thought I was joking

    never before had I or anyone else used that to describe a game

  22. #22
    I remember playing the Homeworld demo back in... hell, I don't even know, it was way back when, before HW's release. In any case, the local Gateway dealer had the demo installed on one of their machines, and every single day I went there, not to look at computers (although I did need one) but to just play the demo through once or twice. I was hooked. I said "holy crap, I have to get this game".

    Homeworld is a work of art. Everything that's been put into it, from the history of the kiithid on Kharak to the gameplay to the music and voice acting all contributes to the wonderful piece that is Homeworld. I remember playing the last mission, remember the music and how simply majestic it was. Homeworld is more than a game, it's an epic.

    I won't call beating it a life-changing experience, because that would be a lie. But finally watching that end cinematic, watching the credits through and listening to that Yes song, was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done on this little white box. (ps I almost cried it was so beautiful).

    I want to thank every person at Relic for making the game as best as it could be in every aspect. I want to thank them for making this game so wonderful and simple and complex and epic that it just astounds me. And more than that, I don't even care if HW2 is going ot take till 2005 to come out, because if it takes that long to do Homeworld justice, then so be it.

    Stick around DVC - we don't get a lot of people that get what HW is all about lately.

    <3 you Relic.
    //_beej
    /_"it isn't necessary to have something to believe in. it's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
    /_gully foyle - the stars my destination

  23. #23
    Homeworld is only one of a very select few masterworks in 3D gaming.

    I actually feel sorry for the folks tasked to take a masterwork and make it better.

    Excuse me while I go visit the Sistine Chapel 2.

  24. #24
    Manta
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    Kudos to DVC

    When I first bought the game I was hoping it would be even half as good as my imaginings when I was a kid reading so many sci-fi books, especially the Great Space Battles series. My dream once was to create a game exactly as I had read from those books. Alex, I dont know if you got your inspiration from them too, but you succeeded where I failed. Thank you.

    Hail DVC. Wish I could move people the way you did with that post...

  25. #25
    Kadreal
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    It takes hands to make a game, but it takes soul to make Homeworld.

  26. #26
    SPAWN OF SATAN
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    Hehe... it took a newbie to draw AlexG out of his hole.

    DVC - that's probably the most eloquent post I've seen on these forums, you've managed to express how many of us feel in a way we could not. I think we'll enjoy your company around here.

    *hugglez the newbie*

  27. #27
    Mr.Popo
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    I never really thought of HW as art, come to think of it. I always thought of it as THE RTS. Great storyline, graphics, artwork, and voice acting, with an ending that had you cheering, "Burn my planet will you!? Well I'M gonna stick an ion frigate up your ass!" Well, um neither did I. Plus, the Yes song grew on me after awhile, until I loved it to death. (Actually bought the CD, and only listened to that song.) I s'pose I've never really said this before - if you guys can do at least just a fraction better than what you did with HW, you will have achieved something great.

  28. #28
    WARRAVEN
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    yep

    I have personally downloaded every Animatic and NIS I can get my hands on and Agree totally with you. They deserve awards or something. I mean the Narrator is a great choice along with the entire plot. The end Sequence is Extraordinary and the begining is pretty good. And the First NIS when yuo here the communica between the two workers is great and then you have the MS powering up. And when they got the info about the Tadani from the prisoner, one sentence sticks in my mind. Took an entire screen and was said so well. "The Subject did not survive interrogation" That just shows what happened to these poor people(Hiigarans), I mean these guys expect them to remember the stupid treaty and blows their planet up melicously. And thne you have the Garden of Kadesh, the voice acting and script is good it gives ya that religous lunatic feeling and the feeling that somethings going down. The writers and scripters and 3d designers and voice artists deserve a very large amount of very big awards. And the animatics with the drawings are amzing, the black and white was done so well and the bars on top and bottom add to it, the soundtrack is great too. I mean this is the gretest storyline I've ever herad of or seen. Should be a movie or something, man I love this story!!

    Raven

  29. #29
    WARRAVEN
    Guest
    This Story is Perfect if you ask me. At the end you really feel for the Hiigarans. I played the demo for a while and said, thats it I have to get this one!! I don't think its possible to get any better than that!

    Raven

  30. #30
    Hivemind
    Guest
    We agree with your observations about the game. Altho we have never seen the ending seqence what we did see of sp was well done and emersive. As far as multi player goes, the fact that the game is still popular after this long puts it in category of clasic. It is the warcraft of 3d rts.

    PS: Here is something to think about. If the game was released today would it still blow you away. We think it would. Nice job Relic.

  31. Child's Play Donor Homeworld Senior Member  #31
    it's nice today. molo's Avatar
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    I haven't read this entire thread but I bet money that I'll agree with all of it. Dan ... your post definitely sums up all that is f'n amazing about Homeworld. Well written!

  32. #32
    CruiserCarrier
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    I hope Relic takes this letter seriously. The factors stated in the letter are what helped contribute to HW's success. Let's not forget that. Improve on this "atmospheric artform" in HW2 and you'll get a sure hit!

  33. #33
    APOLLO(SLS)
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    I'd say that the fact that Alex G. made an appearance here (with his first post no less) says volumes about how "serious" they took the letter

  34. #34
    WARRAVEN
    Guest

    ?

    Who Showed up with the what?

  35. #35
    I do all my own stunts Dan Van Crone's Avatar
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    I feel compelled to post here again and send a nod to everyone who's been giving me all these big up's since my last reply.

    As an aside, I just played all the way through Homeworld again, this time as Taiidan, and it was every bit as good as it was the first time.

    \o/ Relic! \o/

    Now I need to try and scrape together some money and find a copy of Cataclysm. Curse this impoverished University student existence!

    That is all.
    Last edited by Dan Van Crone; 9th Jun 02 at 1:05 PM.

  36. Child's Play Donor General Discussions Senior Member  #36
    Long distance runner Harmanoff's Avatar
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    wtf! The Taiidan are the only true race and you start with Kushan you stupid worthless n00b! Get off the forums! :smash:

    Nah seriously though, great post. You expressed what lots of us felt and still feel. Maybe i should re-install... :angel:


    Socrates: To be is to do.
    Sartre: To do is to be.
    Sinatra: Do be do be do.

  37. #37
    ozarkamax
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    Originally posted by Harmanoff
    wtf! The Taiidan are the only true race and you start with Kushan you stupid worthless n00b! Get off the forums! :smash:

    Nah seriously though, great post. You expressed what lots of us felt and still feel. Maybe i should re-install... :angel:
    :argh: reinstall... REINSTALL!!!! MY GOD MAN.. hehe my puter is a shrine to homeworld... i was thinking of having a blue light installed in my puter and cut the shape of the angel moon homeworld insignia thingy in the side. homeworld captured my imagination. had my adrenaline pumping on the ms launch... and had me struggling not to shed a tear when i realized the slaughtered kadesh were of my own race that was exiled so long ago.... puzzled about how to get around the ghost ship... and giggling like a little school girl once i figured out how to pass the bridge of sighs... and finally a sigh of content when i finished the game... i found myself going... wait a sec... i thought i was into couter strike ... not rts's. sweeeeet. im sure yall have read it many times but thank you relic... not to dog on others but SOME developers ***COUGH*** lemon interactive ***COUGH*** just dont have the passion that you guys obviously have.

  38. Technical Help Senior Member Modding Senior Member Homeworld Senior Member  #38
    www.relicnews.com ÜberJumper's Avatar
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    oh my... I'm so designing a window for my computer with a design like that... perhaps a HW2 logo on a window... ohhhh Ozark great idea.

  39. #39
    Manta
    Guest

    Cata

    DVC Mate. Give me an email. I'll send you my copy of Cata. I dont want it anymore...

  40. #40
    ozarkamax
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    Originally posted by UberJumper
    oh my... I'm so designing a window for my computer with a design like that... perhaps a HW2 logo on a window... ohhhh Ozark great idea.
    yes glass would be a better idea... hrmm... now where is my metal nipping tool......

  41. #41
    smartarse
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    Couldnt have put it better myself. the game is shear brilliance and hopefully homeworld 2 can transend it and set an even higher level pf gaming 'art'.

  42. #42
    /me angst Murph's Avatar
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    gah, I would've responded sooner but my modem got fried with the latest thunderstorm asdf =[

    DVC: excellent post. It sums up my feelings about the game. More of what everyone else said, yes, but I felt the need to say it anyway I wish I was around when this community was at its height. =[

  43. Child's Play Donor General Discussions Senior Member  #43
    Long distance runner Harmanoff's Avatar
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    The problem is that when some of us thought it was at it's peak, others thought it was at it's most vermin infested bottom.

    But then again, that people's taste is different is not really news. Sry, back to topic.

  44. #44
    That's 1_Alpha on Gameranger
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    I guess religeous would be a way to describe the feelings that keep the community here for so long. There has not been a day that has gone by where my hard drive and PC were working that it did not have HomeWorld installed on it. The only reinstalls I've done were after system wipes. It has been and will be a fixture on my hard drive til I have to replace the hard drive.

    Nice post, it got me teary eyed, really it did. HW was the game that really got me online and playing RTSs, sure I had tried other games like MW:merc, and MW3 but HW was the one to get me online and playing every weekend. Glad to see you finally got through it and have tried the online part. It will keep you coming back I'm sure.

    I'll keep an eye out for you on the HW:C side of the game if you decide to go there, that is where I spend most of my time currently. Not that I don't play HW online every now and then, I just play HW:C so much better than HW, hehehe.

    Too bad Relic was not responcible for the patching of HW:C, it might actually be more heavily played if they had been. It could use a few more patches, sigh.

    See you on WON, if it doesn't crash, choke, rebook, okay you get the idea.....

  45. #45
    One Wheeled Robot Vijil's Avatar
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    Personally, I've been amazed that these forums are still so alive three years after the game was released. I only joined up a month ago, but am already reading every single day and posting too much...

    I think it really speaks volumes about the sheer quality of the game and how stunningly replayable it is, despite being linear and stuff like that. DVC really summed it all up in his post though.

  46. #46
    Originally posted by Vijil
    Personally, I've been amazed that these forums are still so alive three years after the game was released. I only joined up a month ago, but am already reading every single day and posting too much...
    LoL, yea I really like your post DVC, i've read it every time ive come here since i first saw it and i totally agree with you, congrats on getting through

  47. #47
    Lord Alexander
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    I can not say how much i agre with you. HW is the best RTS out there not the same old Star Trek Star wars wannabe. it is a breath of fresh air. I have had the game for 2 years. I played threw the SP 2 times. I got online 5 month ago. The first game i picked up to play was HW. I love it now more now than when I first got it. Thanks for your thoughts.

  48. #48
    DLROWEMOH2
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    Amen:angel:

  49. #49
    SoleHunter
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    Perfection

    I was once asked why I like HomeWorld. This left me at a loss for words.
    HomeWorld is closer to perfection than any other human creation I have first hand experience with. There is the painting of paintings, the joke to end all jokes, the food worthy of gods, and the structure of undeniable perfection to house the lot of them. HomeWorld is the game of games, pure, awsome, and just plain cool. Nothing comes close. Every detail astounds me. The first time I had a video card to do HomeWorld it's proper justice, I spent a minute or so just zooming the sensors manager in, and out- oh, so smooth.
    Whether I'm currently playing it, or not, I too will always have HomeWorld installed.
    It seems HW speaks to my personality on far too many levels to be just another game.

  50. #50
    HWfreak11
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    Every other game I have played, I have gotten bored with. AoE, AoE2, Starcraft, BroodWar, Cataclysm, Civ2, Civ:CTP, Dark Orbit, Alpha Centauri, Alien Crossfire, Spryo 2, Spyro 3, Star Trek: Invasion, OddWorld, MoH:AA, Elite Force, ST:Armada, ST: BC, AvP 2, and about 100,000 other games. But Homeworld, no matter how much I play it, is still fun and exciting.

    The only game I know that I have never gotten bored with and never will is Starfleet Command. This is the only game that rivals the addictiveness, graphics, interface, and pure fun of Homeworld (by the way, I am referring to the ORIGINAL SFC, not 2. Also, SFC 3 is coming out someday soon. I am buying it the DAY IT COMES OUT...)

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