Fenris's Top Replays Section [no more updates O_o]

[Fenris-X2]

Hmm I've quit DOW for now except for the odd game or two with friends. Couple of other things I want to do with my spare time right now. So no more updates, someone else can probably run a replays section in the forums. The mods know so they can unsticky this when they feel its past its used by date.

Latest Replay - Replay12 Mystic(Chaos/Ork) vs Landwehr/Ezykill/The UN (SpaceMarine)

Just a chaos vs space marine match between me & landwehr and 2 ork replays against Ezykill and The UN. From memory I think they were quick 10min games. Haven't had any particularly interesting games lately, sorry =\



Replay #1 - Chaos(Mystic) vs Ork(Ghostridah)

This replay shows how to beat Ork wartrak rushing and how to use minefields effectively. IMO wartrak rushing should not be a problem for SM/Chaos players.

Replay #2 - Chaos(Mystic) vs Ork(Existentialte)

This guy is 1400+ and tried a slugga rush which many people are complaining about. It shows the best way to deal with an unexpected slugga rush ( I was quite unprepared as its not common with the people I usually play with )

Replay #3 - Eldar(Fenris) vs SpaceMarine(Stratus) [2]

Just a set of replays to show its possible to win without seer council and that banshees are usuable with support from guardians to knock enemy units down with plasma while the banshees approach to melee. I think FYI that banshees will beat an assault squad for the cost quite easily since assaults are not designed to be used vs light infantry which is what banshees are. The other replay shows dark reapers vs marines.

Replay #4 - Eldar(Fenris) vs Eldar(DRGChristovas) [2]

2 Eldar vs Eldar replays. First game is pretty standard fare. my 4-5 guardian squad army vs spider/guardian mix. Both had seers I believe. This replay kinda shows in direct combat early game, going pure guardians still works vs spiders due to their cost and plasma grenades/conceal. It's abit broken imo. Second game I thought I'd try the turret rush. It failed so I had to abadon that plan and try to salvage a win which i suceeded due to my opponents carelessness.

Replay #5 - Chaos(Mystic) vs Ork(Ghostridah)

Good back and forth battle, I kinda lost myself when my 3 marine plasma squads somehow got stuck and ended up being slaughtered by sluggas and bigmek because I couldn't move. But the game went all the way to tier3 which is a rare occurence

Replay #6 - Ork(Corpse) vs Connoisseur(SpaceMarine)

This is a replay shows how to use big mek's ability to full advantage rather than just duking it out with an FC/CL and whining because big mek died. Shows how to big mek harass and fast tech to traks, worth watching if you want to learn Ork.

Replay #7 - Chaos(Mystic) vs Eldar(three 1300-1500 rated eldars)

Three different maps, three slightly different rushes. Sometimes I didn't know what race they were till a few minutes after the game. Anyway, those are about the best ways I can think of to beat Eldar and I guess they are mildly effective vs most Eldars. It's kinda um how should I put it, inexperienced? how two of these high rated Eldars were using warp spiders against me as chaos and yet they can still get high ratings between 1300-1500. hint: do not use spiders vs chaos :P

Replay #8 - SpaceMarine(biffy) vs Eldar(blur)

For those doubters especially that dumbass SPS who laughed my scout rush idea off, here it is executed by biffy vs BluR. I was laughing pretty hard when BluR cried how lame it was. The irony is so deep I'm sure biffy must have been swimming in it. The counter was also obvious.

Replay #9 - SpaceMarine(Stormy-X2 / Landwehr) vs Eldar(blur)

Two more replays of SM winning vs Eldar. Would you like some more cheese with that whine?. The stormy one is a quick 5minute game and the Landwehr one is what should have been a quick game turned into a huge epic battle. Both are worth watching for those SM's interested in standing a chance vs Eldar.

Replay #10 - Chaos(Mystic) vs Eldar(Toubo)

Another crap player who's rating is inflated by seer council abuse. Rated 1570 when I matched up with him. He is still abusing as hard as he can before the patch. Worth watching for those interested in learning how to kill Seers if the Eldar screws up the early game. Excuse the language in the game, the guy pissed me off with a remark earlier in the public channel

Replay #11 - Mystic(SpaceMarine) vs Ork(Ghostridah)

Long match between me & Ghostridah. Couple of mistakes on my part like not researching Req1 and Power1 earlier and possibly Librarian with WOTE might have been good though I doubt it. The point of this replay is Squiggoth makes an appearance in a top ladder game =]! !

[Kasrkin]

Nice one fenris!

[MoltenHeart]

Cool, thanks.

[Kasrkin]

do you have one showing how to counter a Marine rush?

[Fenris-X2]

with what race? i deleted a ton of reps ;|

[Trox]

nice game vs goshtridah but u went for fast launcher because u knew he was going for fast wartrak.(he does the same every game). Also u kinda abusing F2 ^^.
Talking about game 1 here.And it s prolly the worst map for a wartrak rush as there is only one chokepoint possible.

[Glakthag]

Why would someone slugga rush? A couple people have tried it against me and I am yet to see it work. SC rush and possessed squad rush make sense because they can destroy buildings quickly. Just look at the sluggas in this replay try to take out a listening post thats already in the red! They pound :smash: on it for like 10 seconds and nothing happens so they run away. Sluggas aren't meant for rushing IMO.

[Fenris-X2]

about the f2 thing, you will notice i turned off F2 as soon as he entered melee with me. i only used the stance to position marines behind my mines. watch the replay carefully

[exile7]

you may have been a bit slow then fenris. i saw a number of occasions where orcs were hacking away at your marines while getting shot point blank in the face. and i agree that valley of khorne is a poor map to demonstrate a wartrak counter because of the lack of room they have to move. i'd like to see this done on a more open map.

great job though, some very informative replays.

is the format for this thread "here is an example of X" which will be replaced by "here is a BETTER example of X" if it comes along, so eventually we will have the best method or execution of X in this thread? is 10 replays enough to cover everything?

also i imagine this will lead to a pretty homogenised community, strategy wise, although i guess this happens anyway with replays.

[First And Only]

Just as an FYI for everyone, sometimes the F2 thing can happen to units that are not in Hold Ground stance. It bugs like that sometimes, so be careful of accusing "F2 abuse" too quickly. It usually happens to my guys once a game where they won't immediately get tied up. But if it happens a few times, then it's pretty obvious it's F2 abuse.

Even though this feature is intended, I implore everyone to never keep your men on hold ground stance when someone engages you. The reason I say this is because it's been proven that despite the accuracy penalty, heavy/special weapons are still far too effective in CC. We'll have to keep our fingers off the F2 key as much as possible until Relic patches, because it REALLY messes up the game's dynamics.

[XavionDeosXIV]

BTW the F2 thing isn't exactly a bug. A Relic dev clarified this: ur supposed to be able to use stand ground to avoid getting caught in CC and keep firing, but u take a major accuracy penalty. Now if the penalty part is working properly i can't say, i havent tested this myself. The dev (chavez) discusses this in the thread on this issue in the main DoW board.

:offtopic: Fenris, check the Eldar board about the SC debate. Sps posted the replays that he claims prove that the SC rush is easily beatable. Good for a laff b/c his proof is completely pathetic :bandit:

[Fenris-X2]

i don't even need to view them, i know it will be a retard game. btw i replied to his thread in my typical abusive but correct manner :P

[Jukei]

I'm a new player and trusted myself never to use the seer council since it seems to be totally unbalancer, but i just want to know why i shouldn't go spiders against chaos ?
i found spiders to be very effective troops with teleport + nades and guardian squads with entangle and nades supporting. They rip appart cultists and even rines, and the CL isn't really a prob for them.
i know i didn't play vs very good players but some didn't seem so noobish and i still won.
so what is the reason for not going spiders against chaos?

Double Post

on a side note: of course if the game lasts a little longer i go plats, dark reaper or whatever, but i'm talking about the first few minuts of the game

[Negator]

The spiders ain't that hot against marines, so against lots of marines your spiders really are not doing much since they are anti-light infantry specialists.

[1am]

Great resource. It shall prove useful in my ongoing effort to take over the world ... err ... I mean ... play ... better ... yeah, that'll do.

Suggestion: Post a positive SM match. I want to see the Space marines win for once!

[Fenris-X2]

ask and you shall receive

i found a gem for you

[fgStratus]

I want to see a replay of a transport winning the game.

[Fenris-X2]

you know what? i actually did have a replay of ghostridah beating me with wartrukks instead of traks after i killed his banners ( that was when i learned its better to kill the plasma gens rather than the banners )

pity the replay filing system is crappy and i've probably deleted it since then

[splugburp]

wow... a scout marine rush... pretty lame. Im surprised it actually worked. I can see how it would only work against the eldar since their starting units are lame THAT early in the game. Blur had no time to make a soul shrine! I dont see how it could ever work against any other race, simply impossible to pull off besides the Eldar. GG tho, really enjoyed it!

[Fenris-X2]

not really, guardians will pretty much own scouts. just not if you don't build any except 2 for capping.

[splugburp]

well, Blur had built 3 squads of guardians but he didnt reinforce them early on. The scouts came as the guards were capping and killed one of the units, 3-4. Then Blur started attacking and got killed by the rest of the scouts. He was capping the other spots while he was getting attacked. He really had a choice of capping or defending, but chose capping instead since it may turn out better for the long run. But as soon as the FC came it was game over for Blurs FS and curtains for the rest of the Guardians. But if Blur did get a soul shrine thing could have changed alot... The other opponent (forgot name) had a nice use of micro.

Also I think I played you before Fenris, you as Eldar. Cant exactly remember what happend in that game since there was nothing memorable about it but I guess you put up a good fight, I won but gg nontheless.. But SM rule my world of gaming and the Emporer's power is strongest 'gaints the alien Eldar.

[Fenris-X2]

i highly doubt that i lost to you or i would remember it, i've lost once to an SM as eldar during retail and that was today when i forgot fleet of foot and died since he deleted his HQ and did an all out scout/marine FC rush.

i have 5 losses total with eldar, twice to ghostridah's ork, once to xeno's SM, once to an eldar rated around 1350. that leaves 1 loss which i can't recall but i doubt that was you since i tend to remember my losses. it was probably a loss from when i lagged out due to some weird bug where i have to restart after every game or drop from perfectly smooth FPS to uncontrollably laggy.

[CraziCrow]

Can i request more replays of Space Marines winning please. Thank You

[biffy]

heres a good sm vs ork game of mine that I uploaded earlier, fenris I think this could go top 10 as well, shows how to play against orks aggressively

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=39140

[Tumbler]

Replay #1 - Chaos(Mystic) vs Ork(Ghostridah)

Not impressed with this replay, Ork player was very foolish, his orks were not in h2h most of the time, always running around shooting. And mines weren't even a factor in this, 2 sets were built but did nothing.

Replay #2 - Chaos(Mystic) vs Ork(Existentialte)

Ok, i'm done watching these replays. The 2nd ork players chased your bullet shields around instead of focusing on your barracks or just hitting all your resource flags. These don't show anything but how to deal with bad ork players.

As an ork player I'd expect these replays to show some great ork players going up against you but these are really poor players. Mabye I'll come back and look at some others but there are so many mistakes the ork players make in the first and second replays it's ridiculous.

[Fenris-X2]

I don't think you even understand what is going through an ork player's mind when you watch these replays.

first off, hitting my barracks would be even more pointless than chasing me around and so would trying to get my flags. the best thing he could have done was retreated.

the second game, ghost had never faced a chaos player before. this so called "foolish" ork is #1 right now and was a top warcraft3 orc player. he was just doing a wartrak build which had worked for him everytime until now, he adapted the game right afterwards. since i knew he was going fast trak, i had the early game advantage which i never let him recover from. of course the mines didn't "actually" kill him, they prevented him from coming close. only a retard ork would run into the mines and die. its the fact that i prevented him from getting near my marines that matters. in this game, he definitely had the inferior strat but there was nothing foolish about how he played afterwards. it was just a irrecoverable win since i knew what he would do from the start ( ie. how a game is suppose to work, none of this eldar bs where you know they are going seers and can't do shit )

poor players? ghostridah is a far better ork than you'll ever be.

[Tumbler]

the best thing he could have done was retreated.

No...

The best thing he could have done would be to send 1 of the slugga squads to take the flag that wasn't covered with a LP, then send the other slugga boy squad to hit the guys taking the Relic, make them retreat, then have everyone work on the LP that had just been completed until the chaos lord came out. (Anyone familiar with this game would assume a Chaos lord is otw under those circumstances)

I hope we can face off one day. If the these represent the toughest ork players you've come across you are in for a rude awakening, ORK STYLE.

[splugburp]

Oh well, I guess you know better. I really thought I fought someone with something like your name Fenris. I usually host the '1V1 SKILLED PLAYERS' or '1V1 EXPERT ONLY' games for Fallen City. Cheers!

[Fenris-X2]

splug, yeah i pretty much never play custom games unless its 2v2 with friends or testing something 1v1. theres a couple of players with fenris in their name, such is the problem of having a generic alias.

Tumbler, you really have no clue what I'm talking about do you?

if at any point you try to deflag one of my SPs. i will place a LP on it, which instantly adds 600hp, when you attack it near 100hp, i will delete it and do it again. you will just waste time hitting a foundation for nothing.

ask anyone who has played me if they can decap my flags that easily when i'm not playing half asleep. i mean its probably one of those things which should be "fixed". but at the moment, there is no way to deflag someone SP's if they know the trick and its not even bug abuse as its an intended feature of the game which can be used for unintended purposes.

as i said, you don't really know whats going through their minds. don't be so quick to assume you know better than the top players.

[Tumbler]

I must not be able to communicate my orky expectations quite that well, so I posted a game I think is a good example of good orky tactics.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=40434

I may not be a "top player" but I know what I'm talking about and I'm looking forward to running into you.

I haven't seen these "Expert 1v1 Game's" when I'm looking for a game but I'll be keeping an eye out and hosting some of my own. Mabye then you can demonstrate your tactics.

[Fenris-X2]

the experts generally don't play custom games

if you think hosting or joining games called " 1v1 experts " and winning makes you an expert, you are very wrong.

most will want to test their skill on the ladder, custom games are for newbies or good players who just want to play a relaxing game and piss around making whatever they want and still winning.

[Impaler]

I wanna see Fenris vs Tumbler replay!

[Avatara]

Farseer and turret rushed anyone yet Mystic?

[Fenris-X2]

of course avatara, infact i popularised it by posting a replay for everyone to copy

u know me, im chz at every game

[splugburp]

Ok Fenris, you pushed into my face enough that I started playing ranked games. I have ran into some really good challenges, so... you win.

[Skrag]

For those of us who are a little bit slow, what's the "obvious" counter to that scout rush?



I think I'd have had grenades a lot sooner than he did (but they're getting nerfed soon), I'd have had my farseer sooner than he did, and my guard squads would have been probably 5 members instead of 4, maybe working on 6.

Other than that, is there something more "obvious" that I'm missing?

Bonesingers to tie up the scouts maybe?

[Enfo]

Em any chance of some more i like your replays alot

[rheeley]

any chance of the replays where you lost to ghostridah? i been playing as orc online and all my losses are to bloody eldar. entangle + sc + plasma = death by exploit :/

but i aint even close to half as good as ghost and would like to see how he deals with it

[Dyrvom]

I've tested that Scout Rush technique five or six times in non-skill-specific non-ladder matches. Never failed. Nice one, and let me clarify some things for the questioners:

1: Orks have enough built-in weapons on their buildings and early troop pottency that this strategy will never work against them.

2: Marines or Chaos are iffy if you try this. Chaos have their building aura and likely early Lord to counter, SM have slightly less but can copy the strategy exactly if they know it's coming.

3. Eldar can come close enough to countering it that I believe it is stoppable. One support Plat and reinforcing the first few Guardian squads would be enough, and if the Scout-rusher doesn't know when to pull out and regroup with his FC, the Farseer wil pizzownify him. Never happened to me but I can forsee it.

[-_Phoenix_-]

I'm sure a warpspider squad will stop it. You've gotta have the balls to sink the your early req and power into it but they'll shred scouts by the squad full.

[biffy]

the scout rush can work against any race (I have even won vs trunks orks with it) but it can also be stopped by any race. The hardest to stop though will be an eldar player who is rushing to seer councils. If thye played a different openning with some unit from their aspect portal they would likely slaughter it (except dark reapers suck against scouts). but when you arent building units because your saving up for the soul shrine and seer council, you will get rocked.

Oh, this strat doesnt work on large maps.

[Apoc]

A single turret would have probably stopped all those scouts as well, or at least enough to make them retreat.

[Impaler]

How about a Replay of you beating a SC/Entangle/Conceal Eldar rush.

[splugburp]

Hey Fenris, do you happen to have any pro replays of SM games winning?

[sabyul]

Fantastic learning tools. I especially liked your non-Seer Eldar vs Ubermicro, though I was wondering where his tier 2 was . Thanks a lot Fenris!

ps before watching your Chaos replays (as Mystic) I never knew the value of breakage. That's some major pwnage!

[Fenris-X2]

guardians are the obvious counter, all you need is fleet of foot so you don't die by being gunned down. you can even beat this even if you are caught with your pants down so to speak and only have 2 guardian squads. in large swarm battles like this, the FS is the far superior hero compared to the FC. guardians with plasma >>>>> scouts by miles.

fleet of foot away, reinforce while also training more and more squads from HQ ( make sure you get plasma ). Bonesong any critical structure he attempts to take down. Then eventually once your forces are strong enough, attack him head on. Psi storm + plasma can almost instantly kill an entire force if they aren't spread out.

i would post more replays but i have my master's final assessments to submit, should be more free to play after Oct 15th. i'll see if i can dig something up, i tend to delete alot of them simply because its a nightmare trying to organize them. maybe i'll rename the replays manually after each game from now on hehe.

[FM_Surrigon]

The "experts" don't all play ladder matches. As there's currently no way to get an organized team ladder match going a lot of people who prefer to work in a team (an organized coherent) don't play a lot of ladder 1v1.

That said how about some more 4,6, and 8-player matches?

[Fenris-X2]

i never mentioned 2v2 in this thread, i also specifically stated that team games were the exception in another thread. but in 1v1, the experts are mostly in ladder although there are a FEW who do play customs alot. But i can count the number of those with 1 hand.

[Avatara]

Master's final assessment. Crazy. I have my dissertation due in a month, and 3 essays and 2 exams over the next 3 weeks. I really should not be playing this game yet, but meh.

Wonder if the farseer tower rush works in 3v3. Ah, good times, good times.

[Dark Sun]

heres a big 3v3 battle, which i already posted in its own thread so you may have seen this already. this is the one that goes for over an hour and a half.
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfold...longbattle.rar