I am bad and I need help, badly.

[ViktorHark]

I picked up the game the day it got to the store, and I was in the beta, but after doing some online games, I determined that I suck. Now usually I can fix it be extreme training in skirmishes, which I had been doing, which became a problem as for some reason I can barely kill standard Orks in a 2v2 (usually I pair myself with Chaos or Eldar, as I have found that the SM AI is very bad, at least in my expereinces.

For the most part, I play Space Marines, with the occasional Chaos and Eldar, I despise Orks. Anywho. Usually I would just play till I got better but the thing is my friend plays, and is rather good eldar, without the SC. Ok, well he uses it, but does not abuse it. Sure he ain't the best guy out there but he is good.

What I am asking for is help. Here is my general strategy. Sometimes I don't follow it because I am forgetful, or resources demand other actions.

Start Servitor starts Chapel Barracks.
HQ builds in this order: Scout/Servitor/scout
Usually I play the one 4 man map that has each person on a rased plateu, Something bluff I beleive. so the two scout squads capture the two SP near the HQ on the plateu
While this is happening, 2nd Servitor starts Reactor then Armory while 1st is build LPs on the SP. (do I bother upgrading them)
Once I have the Req. I build a Tac Squad. By then both scout squads are reinforced, usually a flamer and sniper unit. They go down and capture the SP outside my base while the sniper unit covers the flamers, as this when the orks start coming.
Once the Tac squad is completed I put Heavy Bolters in thema and they cover the scouts as they take the two other SP near the start.
Usually once the SM squad is done I start on the FC.

This is when it gets hairy, I'll try to get a replay later. Is there a flaw in my early game strats? Is there some common SM mistakes that I should strive to aviod? Any hints? I probably won't get the replay till Friday, as school is annoying as ever.

BTW I have completed the missions on normal, although my preformance I thought was somewhat unnecessarily slow, I was over methodical in my attack plans, So I think that might have flawed my strats before I could make them right.

[Guillaume777]

I don't know much about marines in the first few minutes of the game, but I believe you should get your FC out before the marines. A FC can beat 1-2 squad of marines alone, so get him instead.

Also you could try to post a replay of one of your battle so we can tell you how to improve

[BlacksandTLSC]

Speed, speed, speed is of the essence here.
You start with the servitor selected, so hotkey his ass! Build the chapel as close as possible on the RIGHT side of your HQ. Soon as that is done, que another servitor and a scout squad. When the extra serv comes out, have him help finish the barracks and group them both onto a hotkey. They build as a pair from now on. As soon as the barracks are done, build a power generator.

As soon as your scouts come out, send them off to cap points. This is their main role, until you have 4-5 points.

As soon as your barracks is done, hotkey this too! FC, then a marine squad. Let the req build back a little, you'll be able to cue your second squad before the first finishes building. Set the rally on your commander, let everyone meet up and go forth.

During this time, if you're reasonably quick you can have at least 1 lp and an armory building for flamers. Also, do not neglect your scouts - they should be capping points constantly. Do not neglect your third marine squad either, cue them when possible. Here's another thing .. reinforce your squads evenly, it won't do to have one 8 man squad and two 5 man squads. If you kill one of your servitors, you make room for a 4th marine squad, which can indeed come in handy. If you scrimp a -bit- on the early reinforcing you can have tier2 with those lovely plasma rifles coming relatively early, providing you skip the third squad for a little bit. In that case, it's better to hold back a little bit. Once you have flamers, I usually attach my FC to that squad .. because he simply soaks up TOO many bullets running around solo. Take it where you want from there.

[ViktorHark]

Well thanks for the help and like I said I should be able to get a replay in friday. I beleive the last game I played was an eldar, so I doubt that would help that much.

[Supercilious]

I go Scout/Scout/Servitor...

First servitor builds chapel barracks, second servitor builds generator, first servitor helps the second.

The scouts cap points, as aggressively as possible. My barracks builds a FC then a tactical squad. I then either go for a second tactical squad if I want to rush, or an armory if I am going for the long haul.

Upgrade points if you can, but remember, weapons in your squads and reinforcements are more importent. I rarely upgrade a single point until my armory/second squad of marines is done.

[Crasster]

I play 1vs1 most the time, so I try to go for the squad limit first. I do the standard scout/scout/servitor, and build lp's instead of a generator, and crank out sm squads until I get to the first squad cap. I put down a generator and an armory when I have the resources. Basically, your first priority should be getting those first three squads out and reinforced as quickly as possible.

[Hunk]

My Build Order:

Scout/Scout/Scout/Servitor2
Servitor1: Chapel Baracks
Servitor2: Reactor
Cahpel Baracks: FC
Servitor1/2: LP's on first three captured SP's
Chapel Baracks: Marine Squads while servitors are building LP's
Servitor1/2: Armoury

Depending on how battle is going I will decide to either tech up or just pump out more Marine Squads. Also my scouts are always caping SP's. If there is an SP that can be caped, it will be.

[Supercilious]

USe one SM squad in CC, and the others + scouts to shoot the enemies...

[Cyric612]

Heres a stupid question Do you hot key the buildings same as you do unites i have tried a couple times and either screwed it up or it didn't work for me.

[BlacksandTLSC]

I hotgroup my barracks, armory, and machine cult as '2', '3', and '4', respectively.
'1' is my servitors.

[Thygrrr]

Build the chapel as close as possible on the RIGHT side of your HQ

Does that mean "right" as in "left" or as in "wrong" ?

I always try to build my chapel in the general direction of the enemy, and in the general direction of a choke point (e.g. the slopes on biffy's peril).

[CPaladino]

I have been hotkeying my units, not my buildings.

i hotkey as follows:
1 - scout 1
2 - scout 2
3 - force commander
4 - tactical squad
5 - tactical squad

Do people here hotkey their units, or their buildings (so that you can build more stuff while managing the fight?)

[BlacksandTLSC]

right-hand side. That way, as soon as your other servitor comes out, he can immediately help building it and your forces come out a few seconds sooner.

[Supercilious]

Hehe, Blacksand, every little advantage eh?

[BlacksandTLSC]

With the speed a lot of the games I've been playing lately, every split-second helps. Espicially since I have to deal with a second or two of load lag.

[Thygrrr]

Hmm, the "right hand side" ... okay, admittedly, I don't get it, as the default perspective is dimetric - right, back and front are ambiguous Have a screenshot or something?


As for hotkeying:
DEFINITELY get into the habit of hotkeying your buildings, at least the chapel. I still don't do it consistently enough, and I curse myself for it every other game...

[Supercilious]

Hotkeying is VERY importent, hotkeying will help you sooo much. Although there is a nasty bug that if you either A: Replace every unit in a squad (Ie. reinforcing as units die so that you end up with none of the original units), or being in CC too much unhotkeys units, atleast for me.

[3zekiel]

This man Blacksand has a frightningly analytical mind...I applaud those who've got a more systematic brain than I do; I seem to pull hotkeys from the air.

Blacksand

[Yogo Hong]

My usually build:

Scout/scout/servitor.

Servitor builds chapel, while the 2 scout squads capture points pretty close to me and moves out.
When the second servitor comes out, I build a plasma generator. You don't actually need it for the first 10 mins of the game, but if it goes beyond, you'll need it.

After the chapel is finished, I build an armory and a SM squad. After the armory, I'll have my scouts upgraded with sniper rifles and my SM squad with heavy bolters. While/after they are done with that, I put LP's on the SP's and try to reinforcement with first upgrade.
Then I build the FC

[sandy77uk]

rather than the right side, put the chapel in front of your servitor, some times I've played and hes been on the other side, watch the direction the 2nd servitor goes thats where your going to build your reactor

Basically Imagine your trying to hit your servitors with the buildings as they come out of space, (I've managed it once ) any travel time is bad

I see ppl suggest going for the FC first, I'll give that a shot as I usually go for a squad first, then as its building I'll be poping up a cheeky LP or 2 and building an armoury

scout stay as 2 man and have snipers they get upgraded after SM squads (unless I encounter the nme trying to cap a point) then they get upgraded and there one goal is to stop them from capping it (by stopping to fire) then I run off, then I come back and start again, he will be upgrading a shit squad (cultists or guardians) where as my scouts are actually useful

the tac squad gets 2 flamers and the FC is beng built, he pops out, I start queuing squads

and adding more LP's as I get time, once I've 3 squads, I upgrade and build a artifact, I attached apocs to my squads (the increased survivability of these squads goes through the roof)

I forgot to add, I send my scouts out as far as I dare right at the begining and work backwards, my marine squad starts with the closest and works their way outwards

[[WM] Katsuragi]

You have to capture everything in the first minute in this game. Make your Chapel Barracks and then produce four scouts and send them to the nearest rec. and critical points. Continue to capture and then build two servs. and a tac squad. Send you tac. Squad to an area where you xpect severe resistance. You should now have at least four Rec. Points. As soon as your scouts finish capturing the first point your other servitor should be ready. Listening point there now, then the others will do like wise, just keep putting post. On the outermost post (i.e. The frontline) Try to build one heavy bolter turret so that your troops have something to fall back behind to. Ive played Marines all the time i had the game, and if theres something i know, the first 2 minutes can make or break your game. As soon as your done with the post, you should have the money for Plasma Generators and upgrades. Begin the Armory and start upgrading the krap out of each squad you got. Scouts in large numbers almost eqaul a tac. Squad. this should be about minute 4 now and the first signs of the enemy should appear. Counter him with scouts with sniper riffles until you kan get your hands on more bolter turrets. after you have built up somewhat of a stalemate between you and your oponent, its time to start teching up...

[BlacksandTLSC]

Wow, just wow. The absurdity of that post amazes me. Turrets are so far beyond useless. For the same price you can get a lv1 LP turret that also increases your req. That being said, as soon as I see turrets .. I know I've won for the most part.

What you've described is a classic turtling strat, and it simply does NOT work against anyone skilled in this game at ALL. Turtle = death, hands down. Period. With what you described, I'll be crawling over your base with FC and 15+ marines by the time you get your FIRST marine squad out.

[-_Phoenix_-]

Re: where to build the Chapel, I build it on the opposite side of my HQ away from enemy forces. That way as they come in they'll tend to attack the HQ and not the barracks

As for the servitor coming out in the wrong place, just move the rally point In fact I build 3 scouts and one servitor, and move the rally point after each scout to a different strat point and then for my servitor move it to my first point as it'll be just about capped and I can put a LP on it right away.

[BlacksandTLSC]

I tend to build my first few buildings very tightly grouped, then they spread a bit as servs put up LP's. My HQ, barracks, and first gen are very tightly grouped, my armory is usually right by my first LP, and my machine cult, ect, ect are all at my forward most LP.

[Chris]

I tend to build a marine squad then the force commander second, because while the FC is being built I can reinforce with a few extra marines.

What would you guys say are the advantages/disadvantages of building a FC first.

[BlacksandTLSC]

Well, FC is a slow build. Marines come in relatively quickly. If you build the FC first, you not only allow your req to rebuild a bit, but you'll have a much more effective fighting force more quickly.

[sandy77uk]

stack the strat points with scouts so you dont have to micro them all the time

Get the 1st one out to cap a close point then a far point, 2nd scout stack a close point then a far point

out pops your servitor, assit building chapel

Tac squad

both servitos build a reactor

1st scout squad has capped 2 places, you need to stack 2 more

1st servitor builds an armoury
2nd servitor builds an LP
FC queued
tac squad pops out
2nd servitor helps with armoury
2 upgrades to tac squad and its moving to a forward position
armoury built
1st servitor rushing to the very front LP with tac squad which has been further reinforced and has 1hvy bolter and flamer
2nd Servitor is putting an LP on the next closest Strat. point
out pops the FC, I now know who I am fighting as my 2nd scout squad is in harresment mode (2 snipers)

Upgrading to tier 2 as the 2nd tac squad pops out, 3rd is queued, fully upgrad 2nd squad, and increased hvy weapons is nearly finished in the armoury

the 3rd squad pops out just before I'm at tier 2

I've probably lost my FC and half my squads by now, if not then Its the home straight no way I'm losing from here on it

I only build turrets after I'm at tier 3 and thy get upgraded to rockets anyway, leaving them as normal bolters is a waste of time and effort, I'd rather build mine fields everywhere

[Supercilious]

How soon do you all start capping points? I usually wait until after my second tactical squad, how about you guys?

[3zekiel]

To my mind, waiting for two tac squads to start grabbing territory is slow. Start grabbing land immediately, but don't range too far from your starting location. You never know when you're going to have to hot-foot back home to defend.

[MagNet]

here's my build order. you will find that it's a little different.

serv1: build power gen
que up serv, scout, scout
when serv2 is out help finish p gen
first scout comes out about when the p gen finishes, tell him to cap a point, usually the closest.
both servs build chap baracks:
second scout finishes, tell him to cap point.
when chap baracks finishes build a armory
que up FC
Keep scouts moving caping points
when FC finishes que a marine squad.

At this point it's up to your personal preferance 'cause I usually try to get to deads asap. And... I've never tested it online, I have played and won against my friend a few times but I'm going to say that he's not very good so that's explained.

but if I was rushing to dreads I would tell the central building (forgot the name right now) to tech to lvl 2.
I would then also build another p gen.
then build a few more marine squads or do whatever you like.

At this point you will have already been attacked. orc or eldar something like that so if your doing fine then no worries just make sure you have enough defensive units, also guard those points. if your forces were decemated and you their pounding on your base then it's most likely over unless your already build the dread. Since dreads are uber power hogs you don't have to worry to much about saving rp so you can spend them on marine squads. But trying to rush to dreads is a gamble so us that at your own risk. The first part though I recomend.

[Supercilious]

When I said "capping" meant "capping" it with a LP, not taking it. I capture as many spots as possible, but I only upgrade until after tac squad 2.

[ViktorHark]

Wow guys for the huge help. I'll get the replay up as soon as I can. I might be able to get one tomorrow but I doubt it.

As for hotkeys: I usually leave 1-5/6 dependent on the size of the battle to my army, to various groupings. 0 is my Relay, 9 the barracks. Never thought to do the Armory. Maybe. Oh yah the Cult is 8.

BTW the replay will probably be Skirmish with computers, more than likely a Chaos and me vs 2 Orks. I assume this isn't a problem as it mainly to see the major flaws in my strategy.

[Mortis]

Whether I build FC first or a squad of SM's really depends on the size of the map. Small maps, go for the FC first, you don't have time to dither, and might need him to throw back a rush. Big maps, get out a squad first, that can be used to capture an additional SP, then add the FC once he comes out.

[thanners]

right-hand side. That way, as soon as your other servitor comes out, he can immediately help building it and your forces come out a few seconds sooner.

Alternatively, you could put it whichever side you want, then while you've got your stronghold selected, right-click on your partially built chapel-barracks (i.e. put a rally point on it), so that your next servitor

(a) will pop out of the stronghold on whichever side is closest to that rally point; and
(b) will head right to that barracks and start helping to build

Just remember to change the rally point again afterwards, if necessary. (c:

Note that this is also a handy way to get your scouts to jump out and start heading towards a strat point without you having to wait for them to pop out.

[Linkusmax]

I rather unique BO from what I can see

Serv1 builds Chapel Barracks
Scout, Scout, Scout, Scout and Scout
Squad Cap upgrade
Scout squads start capping points as soon as their out and just after the 4th squad finishs you can build a FC
1 LP
Tac Squad
Tac Squad
Tac Squad
LP's
Plasma Generator
Armoury
(Pgenerator and armoury can be switched with LP's)

[DougalMcFrugal]

play a skirmish against insane SM and watch the replay for hints. I use roughly the same build order as the AI now and its quite effective (varies depending on map).

Also watch for how the AI caps/upgrades points, I got some cool ideas/techniques there as well. Theres nothing groundbreaking just little things that will help.

Cheers

Dougal

[ViktorHark]

Thanks for the all the help so far. I just have a quick question, regarding missons that requre you hold a certian number of points for so long, say 7 minutes, unsure of what it really is. Anywho, say I hold the majoirty and the timer starts down. Say I get it down to 1 minute when it is recaptured. And in stroke military genius I am able to recapture the point, would the timer go back to 7 minutes or start back at 1 minute?

[YerKid'Din]

Slowly getting better at this (I think/hope) and as far as hotkeys are concerned I use 1 as FC and 2 as the squad that he accompanies. That way its fairly quick to attach him when the enemy appear in numbers. My chapel is alway hotkeyed 0 with my OR always right next to it - handy when termies come along for cueing them quickly. Scouts are always 7. I (sorry if this is obvious) use the same hotkeys for these always, using the others as needed throughout the game as my focus changes. I always use servitors in pairs at least. Every little helps,

[Cyric612]

The timer Resets at 7 minutes

[ViktorHark]

Heh, you people are great. That does cripple and yet help me so I guess its ok, considering I am usually lucky to get to the cp first. I just did a 2v2v2 on Mortalis with Annihlate and the one to take the CP (take and hold, I think) it was great fun, 'cept I lost. It isn't a real good show of my strat. But tomorrow I will have that replay up, probably by 5pm EST if all goes well over here.

[Praetor]

This is what I do.
1. Servitor builds barracks
2. get 4 scout squads to capture as many sp as posible
3. get force commander and SM squad
4. build listening posts and plasma generators and a armory
5. depends on what is happening, how much resources I have

[ViktorHark]

as promised here is my replay, rip rend destroy as you please. well I have it how does one go putting it up?