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Okay guys simple question, what do we do when were on a 1v1 map and the orks come running at us ? I've been told to stick in heavy cover, and use heavy bolters, and that works to an extent, till the choppaz get into melee with my guys, its even worse with the Mek guy who can teleport his squad of melee guys right into the hole... so within the first say 5-7 mins, what do we do to stay alive?
Pray to the emperor.
Seriously, though, pump out squads until you get to your cap, and dance em around when the sluggas get close.
Or you could be a whore and use the F2 bug.
I tend to play orks a lot and I think I'd rather face HB's than flame throwers. Orks are practically worthless if broken and they can break rather quickly. I might also suggest spreading your squads out a bit, my goal as an ork player is to get your squads into CC. It is much harder if they have a good amount of space between them.
Flamers. Break the green gits morale, and get your Force Commander in there playing batting cage with 'em.
Hey, you can also run away, till you got overwhelming odds. Don't need to stick around for something you're gonna lose. Better part of valor and all that. Especially important to not lose squads early game, cuz' that's a lot of initial req wasted.
1 flamer squad
1 hb squad
scouts all have snipers
and your FC
break em and pound em
Thanks guys that’s good advice, though to be honest I have tried it before... thing I find is that I have say, a Force commander, 2 scouts of 2, and 2 maybe 3 squads of 4 or 5 when the other guy comes rolling into me, what I might do is post a replay of me vs. orks sometime for you guys to mull over
Try turrets, I actually saw two turrets and two squads of marines with flamers beat off something like five ork mobs.
ive been enjoying building say 3-4 scout squads at the start, equip them with flamers and use them to support my tac squads. This allows me to use 4 heavy bolters in my tac squads.
:werd:
Last edited by HowlerMcGraw; 8th Oct 04 at 7:34 AM.
there is no f2 bug. read it in the dev report. dumb ass.
If you're going to post something that vitriolic, at least provide a link for him to check it out??
Executioner
qvis cvstodiet ipsos cvstodes?
I'm sorry-F2 "exploit".
Morale breaking doesn't help when the ork is using flamers too. You both break, and he still wins. Better off sniping unless you use scouts as a meat wall.
Massed heavy bolters, get heavy weapon upgrade ASAP, use grenades to knock charging orks over. Hold back FC until you see where his big mek teleports. Use scouts to meatwall for the marines to be real effective. Rinse and repeat and you may stand a chance against my ravening ork horde.
Or more likely you will die...WAAAGH! Once the Force Field, teleporta and 'eavy armor is on the orks you certainly will die unless you are effectively using your scouts to snipe, steal resource and meat wall for the marines. Race to level 2, it's your only chance vs. orkses.
Best advice: given earlier. Pray to the emperor for your deliverance!
#13
Less use of abuse lads. Or i'll set da boyz on you.
-Fitz
Hey guys, well I took some advice and i've found that being aggressive in the right way helps majorly, as does knowing when NOT to attack the boyz!
Anyhow I have a replay here, one of my best games, and i'll post it into the battle reports forum
I hate to break it to ya, but it seems there is nothing you CAN do vs a flawless rush (I'm like 100-0 with it vs SM/Chaos - granted I'm good, but not THAT good, and it's almost always thanks to Da Rush).
However, in order to stand a chance:
* DO NOT let cmdr die. This is imperative. Use him unattached in melee, coz he kicks ass, but don't let him get completely surrounded. If it happens, run after the cmdr uses his area knock down attack. When he's low on health, attach him to squads to boost morale recovery.
* RUN from any squad same size or larger. Orks are melee, Marines are ranged. Abuse this as much as possible. Micro well! The moment the ork turns to attack something else, hit Q to stop and fire at him. Stay just barely out of his reach. The good Ork will have more of the map than you, and will be reinforcing nicely, but you just cannot let a same-sized group engage you in CC, coz it's an even battle and his superior income (more capped LPs early) will be too much to overcome. Cover is more or less irrelavent, since you're busy running, but if comes down to facing shoota boyz (nice job!), remember to use it.
* LP guns are your friend. Get one up and try to run near it, drawing Orks into range. Keep running from CC - if Ork engages the LP Gun, punish as much as possible and hope he's low on req.
* Optimize build orders. Seconds count! Your best bet is either cmdr + mass marines, or LP gun on Valley of Khorne.
If you manage to outnumber the number of Ork Squads (Ie 3 vs 2 squads), you can turn the tide with good micro, using the free squad to attack while the other two run from the Ork trying to engage melee. Ork will be forced to regroup. You prolly want to tech to armory instead of extra squad cap, but I dunno.
Again, nothing seems to completely work, but some maps are harder for the Ork player than others. SM is typically about 15 secs from really stopping the rush, so do your best and hope you're not facing anyone who's perfected Da Unstoppable Ork Rush.
On the biggest maps like FC and MoM, you can hold it off for a while by running around and using chokepoints. Still, remember that you're trailing income-wise, and need to do something about it!
Good luck Marines!
I'v been having the same problem - orks rush me, my marinesa get splattered. The best defence i have found is to upgrade one LP to level one, drop back to it and micro like a m*********** (pardon my language). The tower helps immesurably and the fact that you are nearer your base than your opponents should also help. Dont lose your FC (see Gnug315's post) or the mek will eat you. Just keep pumping out bolters and you should be ok, just don't mistake that 15 strong ork skwad for a treeline (oops
Inferior
If you are worried about him taking the map, stealthed scouts are a pain in my arse as an Ork Warlord. Use them to sneak around and capture points to keep the eco in, if you can, LP them for defense.
If you come across an ork squad capping snipe them. If the pursue, run and then cloak. He won't have nobs early and won't see you. Remember, the ork is not as sneaky, having only mid-game expensive Tankbustas to really sneak about with (invisible grots pretty useless imo). Use those scouts!
Have to agree here, If you put a turret, or even better an upgraded LP, and they attack your marines, fall back to that ASAP, shooting kills orks alot better then melee does
Also, make sure you take advantage of the terrain, and use cover as often as possible. Especially early on. This DOES give you an advantage.
Never stop decapping the foe. I hurt real bad, but I keep one squad of un-enhanced scouts to at least decap anything I can. When I'm sure there's nothing left to decap I can bring 'em home and use them to meat-shield.
The other squad gets sniper rifles, but they mostly just scream with terror over and over until they die. Poor little buggers.
(That's how I picked my handle, though - the fear I can smell from my own troops).
OK, stupid question time. What's an LP?
LP = Listening Post
Lp is listening post
Aha! I really should have known that
/me hides
HO. HO. HO. HARK AT THE NEWBIE. (kidding, Sel. I'm a pretty rank amateur myself.)
I'm not sure if this helps but I just encountered something along the lines of slugga boy rushing.
Link: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...248#post606248
I didnt have many problems against it, although it may not be as rushish as you guys are talking about. Decide for yourself I guess.
I have won about 75 games using da Ork rush... 4 slugga squads an Big Mek.
You wanta beat dis with space marines?
Do NOT tech.
Build squads FIRST. If you build da generator or da armory to early Ork will roll over ya.
Scouts are cheap, and dey are in small groups. Da Ork needs all 4 squads for da rush. Send 1 or 2 scouts to get more resource points. The Ork can NOT rush AND gather resource points at da same time.
Don't engage Ork if you can help it. Run around, stall, delay.
If you out resource Ork and only spend resources on Squads then you can turn this rush.
But if you tech too early da horde will roll you!!!
#1 mistake Space Marines make against this rush: they engage da Ork with an inferrior force. If your force is smaller than da Ork's force den stall, delay, dance... wait.
Have a fall back point which as someone else said was an upgraded listening post. Mine the front line and cut them down with heavy bolter fire when they run over the minefield. If they have wartrakks then run your marines away fast. Either get dreadnaughts asap or upgrade your troops with missles to take the wartrakks out. Remember, wartrakks chew through troops like there is no tomorrow, you need to take them out.
I havn't tried using assult marines with melta bombs on wartrakks. This could be a good tactic but if there are more than a few wartrakks you need hellfire dreads right away.
What Gruumsh said - though there are some BO's that work with power first, getting multiple LP guns up asap.
See http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=41879 for how to stop Ork with SM.
noob that i am, i have to agree with gruumsh. when facing a guranteed ork rush just dont tech until you have minimum 3 sm squads, 2 scout and a FC. granted that it excludes the option of HBs and snipers but if you had even one LP up you should be getting the armoury soon. use two servitors to get it going and research accuracy. and DO NOT engage in cc. with your starting cash you can go,
chapel
scout
scout
servitor
first scout caps
second scout caps
second servitor helps finish chapel
marine
fc
marine
lp on closest available
marine
one scout squad continues capping/uncapping
one scout squad returns to main body
go rush someone or defend yourself
build power
then armory
then its up to you
this build order saves my life against so many ork rushes. once in a 2v2 i got badly mauled by an ork rusher who took the terrain advantage close to his base. i lost a squad and my FC before i made it back to my base. when he walked in with the horde, i had heavy cover advantage this time with only two squads of SMs without HBs left to me. he managed to take out my chapel while i was dancing around with big mek and his squads. by the time he lost the fight, i had built an armoury and rebuilt my chapel all the while the ork army was in my base. my partner helped by keeping the chaos player off my case. when he died i had my original two SM squds, my FC and an ASM squad along with two scout sniper squads! and i was ready to face a second attack by this time from chaos! never underestimate the power of ASMs jetting behind infantry lines.
That match was my shining moment in DoW and i've never played a better game since. its not the ork rush or the SM rush or the eldar rush that scares me. its the chaos rushers that i worry about. orks are beatable.
dance dance fever!
all scouts with flamers and if u got um, heavy bolters.......works for me everytime. Get that FC into close combat and pull him out if he's about to die cause with the FC as a huge meat shield those scouts and HB are gonna rip those orks up. If the big mek starts teleporting, start dancin too....he can't teleport forever
the teleport respawn is actualy quite slow. so you can count on him only doing it once.
your best chance is really how you use what you have. and how you position your troops.
scouts need to bust moral, then you need two units. one big unit as a meat shield, the second unit with HB DIRECTLY behind that unit. and if you can create a choke point so the orks HAVE to kill the 1st sqaud to get to the second squad.
having the scouts behind the meat shield would be even better so you dont have to think about dancing them... all you have to do now is get another squad out to fill the gap if your meat shield squad dies. this way the Orks get all massed up and you HOPEFULLY dont have to fight the whole mob all at once.
*choke points* if the map your on doesnt have one(and they rarely do) then set your buildings up to create one.and is relativly micro free so a scout unit to do some capping/decapping...
i sometimes find the best way to stop rushes is with HB's, cover if you got it and alot of mines, even during the middle of a fight you build mines, just move a squad forward as a distraction (or a well time counter attack) and when the enemy gets back they will find alot of mines in their path. it really plays with their head when they walk straight into your base to find no enemys, only mines and then comes your counter attack after they walk through every single mine. it cripples their force and brakes their morale
Last edited by modern_messiah6; 13th Oct 04 at 4:18 AM.
If you have an armory get the bonics upgrade before you get the target finder upgrade, cuz vs orks unless you are god and dont get into CC the extra health will help you win vs bigger ork mobz, watch out tho good ork players use smaller mobz which let them re-enforce like 3, 4, or 5 at a time (i do this when playing ork).
So maybe a SM squad of 4 with 2 HB and then 2 SM of 6 or 7 apiece will take out ork pretty well.
Ive noticed when ork are CC it happens in cover, dont let that happen cuz ur HB will deal wayyy less dmg. If you see mobz rush to them in open field while ur 2 HBs take them our pretty well.
Scouts with flamers or snipers will do wonders to morale too. A supported battle is one that you will win orks are good at throwing masses to troops at you, distract the mass with meat walls then kill them with HB or snipers.
You will be pretty suprised how long ur SM last with lv 1 bionics too.
I agree with much of what has been said. An orky rush can be terrifying, but as long as you keep your head you'll do fine. For me, I find the number one way to survive is having my FC out. With out him you are in for a harder time. Additionally, try to draw the combat towards your barracks -- if you are closer to home you can reenforce quicker. It helps to pull into heavy cover as well -- you'll last longer and that FC can really hold up (and if you put him into an SM squad, you will hold for a long time). Just make sure you have him pinned in melee with a squad on overwatch; the other SM squads or scouts dancing as needed. Finally, upgrade that LP so you get a 'ard fixed defense. Ork will run. And if you manage to get you Barracks up as well, drop some flamers into your dancing unit, or HBs into a more static one, and give snipes to the Scouts. You'll hold.
Just don't let that FC die.
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