good player needs help!

[wiseone]

ok I seem to be hitting some kind of impasse. I'm just not getting much better, and I am loosing many games early on. While I am not loosing most of my games, in many of the games I do win, I loose my hero early on and get in tons of trouble. Pretty much all are to SM. This is often due to the FC stun, and the fact that the other side seems to have better BOs.

recently, I played a game which kind of highlights some of the problems I'm having. So I mucked my BO, but not too bad, and I had a unit of chaos warriors with 2 flamers and 2 units of cultists with 3 nade launchers each, and a CL.

I was attacked by my SM opponent with two full units of SM, a FC, and a unit of scouts. I have no idea how he got all that out quickly. So I think "ok, he has more marines, but his morale will break quick." One of his unit's morale broke quickly. but his FC owned my Chaos Lord after stunning him. Then, of course, I lost pretty quickly since his FC, which had most of its health left, launched into my CSM unit.

I saved the replay... if someone who's really good (like a 6-star beta player) could take a look and give me some advice...

The FC stun really is a hassle. Messes me up when I'm playing Eldar too, since my seer dies, but its less bad as the eldar since my guardians, which are quite a bit better than cultists, can fire on the FC while my reapers and banshees keep his marines busy.

Another problem I have is that I dont know when to start building LPs... I cant seem to balance getting out CSMs and getting LPs for economic strength.

[ExplodingGeckos]

I run into a similar problem concerning your last issue

[Varvidos]

There is no formula or "good BO".

You need to adapt based upon the map and what your opponent is doing.

[SolidSnake3]

For the listening posts do you upgrade them or leave em? I tend to build just the listening post and put the req. towards more troops. Also, try alternation like build 1 squad then one listening post then 1 squad and so on. That should help give you some balance but the map also influences these things largely.

[DoomKnights]

My BO which helps on this matter alot. *Note this start up works for both Choas and SM* Buy a barrics and buy a builder who is plucked into help building the barrics. While buying the builder buy two tier one men*scouts or cultists* Place the first one on a close SP. When the second one is being made place the point for the next SP. At this point your barrics are made and ready. Build your hero. Then Set your builder to build a generator. By this point the first tier one is almost done cap the SP so send your other builder over there. Then when they do capture it build a LP and send the tier one over to the next SP. At this point the second one is close to being captured and the builder is almost done with the generator. Just wait a second and the builder will most likly finish building before the squad captures. Send him close to the point and place a lp up. Now send that other squad over to a new SP. By this time your hero is out and ready. Your last squad has capped the other sp and send your first builder over there because by then he will be done with his lp. Upgrade that very first LP up to a turret. Have your builder make a LP on the now captured spot. Now this is where you can choose your own way. Normaly I wait until the second builder has finished making the LP then ill have enough for a troop squad. From here its all up to you, but now you have an advantage because your enemy wont have as much res in the middle of the game as you do. After a couple minutes you will be raking in more money the enemy is. Also note when you need make another generator and update your LP which are closer to the enemy first then those in the back.

Good luck!

[DoomKnights]

Just for noting. A good thought about buying LP's and upgrading them. You get 50 res back after a LP is made and you also get 50 res back after an upgrade. This way your only spending 50 for the lp and 50 res and 75 power for the upgrade. I know this sounds stupid but if you think about it it also speeds up how much res you get a second. It starts realy slow but if you upgrade to lp level 2 your res goes up very fast*although I tend not to upgrade to level 3 on the base that it costs way too much and way too much time to upgrade to be needed*

[Khrushchev]

You get 50 res back from the upgrade too? Cool, I didn't realise that.

I've been using 2 main BO's lately. The "Mass Res" BO and the more conventional "generator -> Armoury" BO. Mainly the "Mass Res" one though.

Build 2x cappers (scouts/cultists/whatever) and your barracks, then build your first squad.

As soon as each SP is capped, build a LP on it.

When your first squad finishes, send it to cap one of the points that will be contested, adding another 2 or 3 guys to it (you should easily have the res for that) and queue up a FC/CL to the same point.

In the meantime your cappers should have just about capped another point or so, so build LP's on those.

When the FC/CL is done build a second squad.

Then, build a generator and start your teching because you've got a good income from all the LP's and 2 squads and a commander to start the biffo.

The other one is fairly standard, building a barracks, then a generator straight after that, but I've been finding that less LP's really cuts into the war effort early game, while power is not quite so essential.

[DoomKnights]

Yes it does. Actauly every time I notice my resource to my enemies I have a good 2000 and sometimes even 4000 more res then he does. I think this is by how I build my lps and level them up one fast. It does leave me a little weak to fight at first but given a minute or two it adds up.

[Tunk]

Hi, I've been experimenting with different build orders for chaos and have found one that I'm comfortable with. It goes like this:

- Heretic builds monastry
- Queue 2 cultists 1 heretic, shiftclick stronghold to first SP
- Force build on heretic, stop as soon as he hits red health (be careful here if you push it to close lag can sometimes kill you)
- Shiftclick stronghold to second SP (cultists will already be converting first SP)
- Shiftclick stronghold to monastry once cultists are out
- Monastry will finish a few seconds after second heretic is out, start building chaos lord immdiately.
- Reinforce both cultist units
- Chaos marines x2 to follow

Use both heretics to put LP out as you capture SPs. You should have no problem putting up 3 LPs whilst keeping constant production and 4 is not a problem either if you hold off a few seconds before begining to reinforce your marines.

The chaos lord attaches to one of the cultist squads (whichever you plan on sending to the expected confrontation zone) whilst the other cultist squad continues to cap SPs. Marines join the chaos lord in the contested zone.

From here you have flexibility in how to proceed. You'll normally find out what race your opponent has around the time your first CSM squad is being produced. If its eldar or marines I normally go for the tier 1 victory, engauging quickly and looking to penetrate into their base with my lord + cultist squad and my 2 marines. If it's orks I'll back off to a defensive position and make sure I get a plasma generator down ASAP. Upgrade LPs, maybe put a turret down and tech to heavy bolters whilst holding off the rush.

This BO puts out troops fast and gets you a solid requisition income, but at the expense of not having plasma gens early. Losing your chaos lord in the first engaugement is bad news, even if you take out the enemy commander since your opponent will likely be able to get a replacement commander out faster than you. The good news is that cultists make a fantastic ablative shield for your chaos lord (just make sure you put them on overwatch) which will prevent him from being focus fired.

Of course, take my ramblings with a grain of salt. I dont have the experiance of the more accomplished generals here and as has been said many times previous, there is no 'perfect' build order. Adapt as the situation demands.

[Critta]

One word of advice, always check your opponents scout units, if they have sniper rifles, get your cultists firing grenades at them ASAP, the morale and damage from sniper rifles is evil, but 'nades keep them on the floor and not firing

I normally go for 2 LP, then a second CSM squad, then continue to build LP's on all my other posts.