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I think Isaak Asimov has good things to say in his books about this. The humans that go into space change radically (after a long time) and are hated by earth men so they have to fight them. They win and enslave Earth, once their home. Then they free them and many more stuff that I barely remember and you're better off reading for yourself.
And yes, why did this this thread get undocked/launched?
Good question!
Docked again...with glue this time!
-geoff
@Komninosm,
File Komnine, den briskeis periergo oti to makrino mellon exei tetoies kai toses omoiothtes me to makrino parel8on?
(If that sounds greek, well, it is.. I am just comparing the fact that in this here magnificent game 2500 years past come TODAY in the form of science fiction millenia away. (insert half smile here)
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/kushan/index.htm
Some short info about the ANCIENT Kushan Empire.
Map...
http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n..._n2/rome1.html
Kanishka, Kushana empire's greatest emperor... 53 to 123 Ad.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/d...Fkanishka.html
(Some scolars think that their language was part slav-part chinese)
Short history of Bactria, including its greatest leader Menander. A Greek kingdom which was subjugated to the Kushans approx. 130 BC. Kushans though, respected Greek law and religion. Their civilisation in fact was a amalgam, a mix of Indian, Chinese and Greek.
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0805685.html
And Megas Menandros, or in English Menander, My all time hero...
Timeline...
http://www.american-pictures.com/gen...s/per01641.htm
Some info on his army (although some are conceptional...)
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba50ryan.html
Some huge factfinding text about research in Bactria...
http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/d...Fbactrian.html
Also, Menander's true legacy... Buddism...
http://www.wisdom-books.com/FocusDetail.asp?FocusRef=9
and to quote from that (2 first paragraphs...)
Buddhism is commonly thought of as an eastern religion, but neither it nor the country it rose from can be so easily characterized. India for instance is west of China, and as the poet Henry Thoreau once remarked, “the farthest west is but the farthest east.” Buddhism is also sometimes depicted as a modern phenomenon of an eastern religion becoming trendy in the west. However, the roots of its influence on the west go way back into history, particularly the time of Alexander the Great and the Greeks in India.
The west owes a huge cultural debt to the Greeks, but it is often not fully realized or appreciated just how much of a claim India has to put forward as the home of civilization as we know it, and how much of an influence it had on Egypt, Greece, and even China and the rest of the world. After the death of Alexander, the Indian King Ashoka converted to Buddhism after seeing the aftermath of a particularly bloody battle. He spread Buddhism throughout his empire and Buddhist missionaries were dispatched even to Greece and Egypt. Many of the Greeks left behind after Alexander’s retreat from India became Buddhists, especially in the border areas of Bactria and Gandhara – later to become famous for their Buddhist art. One Greek King from Bactria, Menander, became famous as the subject of the Pali text now known as the Questions of King Milinda. This consists of a philosophical dialogue with an Indian Buddhist monk in which the king asks questions about the Dharma. It is said that the King attained the liberation of an arhat. If so, then Menander may be considered the first “westerner” to become enlightened.
BEATTLES, EAT YOUR HEART OUT
For me the best thing was the feeling of a journey of discovery in HW.
They discover the hyperCore and upon testing it bring the wrath of an anicent empire onto themselves... then the game began in truth.
Not only did you have to rescue the remaining population in storage but them you had to guide them to safety, outwitting the empire using stealthy tactics...
HW2 has none of this. Firstly the vaygr appear without much fanfair and attack you.Then we find that despite the Hiigarans contact with the majority of the galaxy at large, Bentusi tech and their own highly developed technology; they are being beaten back by them and the remains of the Taiidan.
The idea of the cores was good, and the fact that karen becomes the hiigarans Sajjuk Khar, i always thought she was special after she was brutally attacked by the Emperor yet survived, and you have to stop Makaan. What I didn`t understand was how makkan, even with the core he possesses, could strike the hiigarans so badly that you are left running...
You need a core to farjump your fleet.... something the hiigarans have, plus they have a large fleet, yet they cannot defend themselves against makkan? With their own advanced and bentusi provided tech equipped fleet?
HW2`s storyline didn`t make sense...
You also used this "overwhelming forces, idea to keep the player (like me) pressurised into playing meatgrinder battles... There is one really true stealth mission where you have the drop on the vaygr, that was fun, while the epic space battles do not work due to the strict limits on ships that the player can build.
I want to play HW like the first, striking from a decent position to counter an attack, not to just face a vast force coming towards me that wipes me out, that`s not fun.
I want to be able to use advanced ships to counter others special abilites...
I want the chance to sneakily creep up on an enemy`s ship builder base by sneaking through a nebula track rather than choosing an obvious route.
I want to choose my own tactics, I want to invoke the attacks rather than constantly defend.
finally...
As hiigarans look like human offshoots to me, how long do they live? If they have a lifespan similar to ours how come karen is still alive and looks about 28?
HW3 would be welcome but needs an epic quest to DO rather than play "defend our race" quest.
I always thought that the hyper cores were actually just "recievers" of hyperspace power sent from a central hyperspace megacore. Those that reach it would have the knowledge to do almost anything... From building more cores to allow peaceful travel, to using the hypercore to hurl an entire sun at an enemy.
It would have been fun to race against the Taiidan or even the vaygr to get to it before they do. choosing dangerous paths through hazardous environments, ambushing fleets and investigating ancient technology hulks.
sigh, just please make HW3 less insanely hard than HW2.
Kalimera
No I don't find it strange. First it is not the true distant future but an imagined one. And second that's what humans do, create stories using myths from the past. That's how even religions are formed, not to mention urban legends/myths!
And yes I am that dense/difficult to get along with
hobnob1978 I agree with you mostly but why did you post that here? It is rather off topic
@Komninosm,
Yes, I should have said "Imaginary" history. In the following sentence I use science fiction. I am REALLY into science fiction and ancient history. It is amazing that those two were intertwined to form the base story of Homeworld.
And now the first gut reaction to what I read in relicnews...
Warhammer 40000 ?
Can't be...
Personally I think it is amazing that one of my most favorite developpers (Yes, Relic), is developping my most favorite sci-fi universe. Warhammer 40.000
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/warh...120903_001.jpg
Yes!!!
:guitar:
:wowsers:
:bow:
well one of the moderators a few pages back wanted to know what people, who decided to read this thread, would like to see happen in the third HW game (if there is one....)Originally posted by komninosm
Kalimera
No I don't find it strange. First it is not the true distant future but an imagined one. And second that's what humans do, create stories using myths from the past. That's how even religions are formed, not to mention urban legends/myths!
And yes I am that dense/difficult to get along with
hobnob1978 I agree with you mostly but why did you post that here? It is rather off topic
D you think I should copy post it to another thread? if so which one....
plus a big hi, I`m quite new!!
Hi hobnob1978 and welcome
Sorry I didn't remember that post.
Warhammer 40000 seems nice but we need a patch for HW2 first no som new game. And a second patch too. Other games get many more patches.
#60
Did a little house cleaning.
I'll kill any patch comments also. This is not the forum for it. Keep the history flowing.
Makaan is Hindi for "house".
I don't know exactly how that relates to the story, but I know that whenever I write every name has a meaning and purpose.
Also, there is a Malay word Sajuk or Sejuk which means "cold". Also, the Hebrew transliteration of "cold" is Kor (cf. Sajuuk-Cor).
Once again, not sure if that would mean anything, but just thought it was interesting to find these words in other languages.
Here's a bit that a lot of people may have forgotten. In the original promos it was mentioned that in HW the Kurshan find the Guildstone which becomes a cross between a rosette stone and Joan of Arc
The rosette stone was an archaeological wonder when it was found in the 1920's. it allowed archaeologists to read several new languages. - In game it unites the previously warring tribes of Karrack into a single force with a mission.
Karan Sjet becomes Joan of arc. - I think in HW2 there's a shot showing her hooked up to the mothership and her arms are spread outward.
Oh I've heard that Joan of Arc never killed anyone herself but she led the French to lift the siege of Orleans. In a later battle she was mortally wounded, or so everyone believed. The English thought the French army would fall without her leadership. She recovered and went on to fight again.
cool stuff
heres something new. the shipyard captain, i believe his name is elohim right? well thats one of the names for God, in hebrew i beleive.
Yes, your'e rightOriginally posted by Wirlwind
cool stuff
heres something new. the shipyard captain, i believe his name is elohim right? well thats one of the names for God, in hebrew i beleive.
Elohim is the word
#65
Just a note: I will be undocking this thread following the release of the patch. However, the FAQ will have a link to this thread to facilitate easy finding in the future.
Two points:Originally posted by M37
Here's a bit that a lot of people may have forgotten. In the original promos it was mentioned that in HW the Kurshan find the Guildstone which becomes a cross between a rosette stone and Joan of Arc
The rosette stone was an archaeological wonder when it was found in the 1920's. it allowed archaeologists to read several new languages. - In game it unites the previously warring tribes of Karrack into a single force with a mission.
Karan Sjet becomes Joan of arc. - I think in HW2 there's a shot showing her hooked up to the mothership and her arms are spread outward.
Oh I've heard that Joan of Arc never killed anyone herself but she led the French to lift the siege of Orleans. In a later battle she was mortally wounded, or so everyone believed. The English thought the French army would fall without her leadership. She recovered and went on to fight again.
1. The rosette stone was a stone tablet with 3 languages on it, all apparently saying the same thing. (although im not sure of that one). Correct me if im wrong, I believe these were ancient greek, ancient egyptian and linear B (ancient minoan, one of them anyway). The rosette stone allowed many previously unreadable enscriptions to be decyphered. They already knew Ancient Greek, but it allowed the other two to be read.
2. Karen Sjet=Joan of Arc? With the wounded at Orleans thing at the end of HW, HW2 sounds like the fighting later. Does this mean HW3=her capture by someone and execution?
Well let's just get the records straight with the good old free encyclopedia:
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone
According to Wikipedia there are two languages on the Stone: Egyptian and Greek. But there are three scripts used: Egyptian hieroglyphics, Egytpian demotic (the popular written language of the time) and finally, as has been mentioned, Greek. It says it was found in 1799 by the French in Egypt during the Napoleonic Wars and used in the early 19th century to translate hieroglyphics. I guess the Rosetta Stone is still out for public viewing at the British Museum (or at least it still was when I went).
Nonetheless, it does still provide interesting historical backdrop for Homeworld.
A wonderful show about Alexander (happened to watch it accidentally) can be purchased here:
http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index...entPage=search
Synopsis of show can be found here:
http://www.gate.net/~mango/Alexandar's_Epic_March.htm
Worth it just to see Mr. Wood meet up with an Afghan? warlord of sorts who he was introduced to in London. The warlord used to deliver pizza in Pittsburgh.
Anyway, wonderful show that includes a journey to the top of the world (in Himalayas I believe).
#69
Hmm... I was reading "The Encylopedia of World History," and found there to be a country called Nubia in the "Land of Kush" near Egypt where modern day Sudan is. I read that they were around for a really long time, and even sacked Egypt's capital city once (Like the Kushan did to the Taiidan), and they controlled lots of trade in the ancient world, much like the Hiigarans would be able to do with their newfound hyperspace network (The Eye of Araan thingy). They were also one of the few places not conquered by the Romans... or was it the Muslims? It has been a while since I saw it, so forgive any slips...
[edit] oh yeah, and megaliths, as it turns out, were large stone structures where anicent communities put their dead. When HW3 megaliths come around, who knows what ghosts will be lying in wait...???[/edit]
my teachers and my parents have a small prob with my neer complete homeworld obsesion. maby this will help them deal with that. ill print it out. and i tryed to do a report on cryogenics for english reaserch essay. sadly enogh the damned lybrary had nothing on the subjects. i KNEW HW had some relism to it; i just dident think it was that involved. you know the story of Rip Van Winkle. I tryed to write a simaler story using most of the HW intro. i still have yet to find out how good it was i dont think its an acceptible piece. . (
_ )
. (
How much damn time have you got? I mean, this is riddicoulos amounts of..of FACTS. Talk about a LOT of Mr. Brains
Back OT
I'm not quite sure if somebody has mentioned this already but the Diamond Shoals lies off Cape Hatteras in the Carolinas. It was also known as the Graveyard of the Atlantic. Over the years hundreds of ships have been lost to it treacherous waters.
#73
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/
Makaan = Takla Makan desert, home to the nefarious Tocharian raiders of antiquity, who pirated the Great Silk Road.
I feel vaguely embarrased to have missed the connection, as I knew of the people and their area. Just had to see it on the screen to make the connection, though.
Bump!
Enroute to Thaddis Sabbah, the wayward Hiigarans encounter the Keepers of Abbasid.
Perhaps this refers to the Abbasid dynasty which had supplanted the Umayyad usurpers as Caliphate in Bagdad circa 750ad. The period of their rule is often considered to be the indian summer of Muslim civilization. Among the Abbasids achievements were the transcribing the great surviving literary works of Rome and Greece, many of which had been destroyed in Europe after the fall of Rome. They were also made many great philosophical, cultural and technological advances that were not matched in the west until late in the renaissance.
#75
in reply to the taiidan question ive searched long and hard and came up pretty empty, all ive been able to uncover is that tai dan are a hill tribe of laos in indo-china.
i tried to search more on these people but i guess that they arnt considored worth for much documentation because i couldnt find jack sh*t on them.
there is a laos tribe called the T'ai
The T'ai migrated south from China between the 1st and 10th centuries. This dispersal may have been initiated by the expansion of the Han Chinese into the Red River area of modern Vietnam.
Between the 9th and 11th centuries they progressed south into what is now Indochina, always following the valleys of rivers, such as the Mekong and Menam. By the 13th century the steady flow of migration had brought T'ai people into the areas of Northern Thailand, Laos, and Northern Vietnam. They eventually became the T'ai Siam in modern Thailand, the T'ai Lao in Laos and other T'ai groups such as the Red and Black T'ai in Laos, Vietnam and Thailand.
its very unlikely that these people are what the taiidan of homeworld are based on, but its the only lead i could find.
as for karan, i know its a long shot but she acts as fleet command, and ive found a diety in persian mythology, which kinda acts as a fleet command for the ancient world.
khara, a gigantic three-legged ass which stands in the middle of the sea Vourukasha. The creature has six eyes; two are on the usual place, two are on top of its head, and two are in the hump. With the help of his sharp eyes he overcomes evil and helps in the management of the world. Additionally, he has nine mouths and one horn.
i know its far from shapely karans'jet (drools) but this creature also has a function similar to her's kinda.
so yeah, thats my 2 cents to this discussion.
[EDIT!]
i have descovered a city in the chinese provence of shandong i believe, called Tai'an.
the city is pretty ancient (a few thousand years i think)
i cant really find any history on this city that would explain a link in the homeworld universe but ohwell.
ive looked hard but im just so darn set on trying to crack the secret of the taidan naming <_>;;
'Karan' is also an old Hebrew word for 'shining' or some such thing. I'm not really clear on what it means, but it was the word that Saint Jerome mistranlated as 'horned' in the Vulgate Bible, leading to hte protrayal of Moses as having awesome horns.
Its the shining bit. I dunno, maybe its a longshot.
I understand Hebrew (I'm Jewish)Originally posted by thegoatman
'Karan' is also an old Hebrew word for 'shining' or some such thing. I'm not really clear on what it means, but it was the word that Saint Jerome mistranlated as 'horned' in the Vulgate Bible, leading to hte protrayal of Moses as having awesome horns.
Its the shining bit. I dunno, maybe its a longshot.
and I can tell you that Karan means " (he) was shining "
but Keren is a "ray" or an "horn"
Koren is "(he) is shining"
Btw, I didn't find anything about taiidan as wel,
In the end they (relic) will tell us that "It just sounded nice, so we took it"
I did one of these threads a while back. got alot of similar things you found, bu missed many of the mountain areas and such. Really nice job with the various races :thumb:
#79
Way to bring back a month old thread Rebel.
My Interceptor is better than your Interceptor.
Bump.
#81
this thread is a good thread, pls don;t make the evil moderators lock it.
nice history , bad who cares anyway , i meen during the game hW or HW2 you will forget anyway
#83
It's just an interesting thing to know where and why the places, names, and battles in the HW saga (minus Cata) are like that.
Just browsing and came upon, gasp, an intellectually stimulating thread in a games forum. Mad props to the original poster and all those who contributed.
My little bit to add is the prefix "kara" or "khara" in Turkic and Altaic languages. It means the colour black. In Turkish, the Black sea is called the karadeniz , i.e. kara-black and deniz-sea. The Kharakorum mountains mean the black Korum etc. There is a large degree of mutual intelligibility amongst Turkic languages and even further in some cases. The Ural-Altaic group of languages includes a vast span including languages such as Finish, Hungarian, Turkish, Azeri, Kazakh, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Turkmen, Uighur (Xingxian in western China) and Mongolian. All the languages work on the same grammatic principle of having a number of cases (from, to, in, whose, where etc) and almost all conjunctions added at the end of nouns and verbs, and so called vowel harmony, where vowels in the cases and conjunctions change to fit the word they are added to. What is also interesting is that none of these languages have words for he and she. They only differentiate between people and things.
As an (to be a pedantic prick
I come from Turkey
Türkiyeden geliyorum
Türkiye-(Turkey)den(from) geliyorum(I come)
The words for counting are almost exactly the same all the way from Turkey to Kazakhstan, and amazingly, when I watched a documentary on Mongolia a while ago, I discovered that I could understand quite a few expressions in Mongolian even though I only speak some Turkish.
Sorry for boring all of you to death with that little lecture
Double Post
In relation to my post above on the Turkic kara or Khara prefix (The colour black), I have an idea that the expression "Khar Toba" might actually mean "black stone". I came to this idea because the central monument in the main mosque in Mecca is an ancient Black Stone of the Ka'ba, a dark meteorite set in gold in the outer wall of Islam's holiest shrine, the Kaaba, in Mecca. Kaaba means "cube" in Arabic, but the word is extremely old and the stone predates Islam. I think the word might actually be a simplification of Khara Toba that happened over time, i.e. K(h)a(r)a (To)ba. This reduction of words and expressions happens in all languages, so you never know.Originally Posted by crobato
Second pedantic drivel post of the day.
#85
nice historical information you got there, seems like relic has indeed done some research before developing the game...
Kharakum is a desert in asia, it means "black sands" or something like that if I'm not mistaken
hi there, i muz agree the sajuuk sounds like "sejuk" in malay language... but i don't it is based on the South East Asia History. you go to read book by South East Asia History/culture expert...D.S.R.SarDesai I think his in depth analysis and theory may give you a better idea on South East Asia? :>
I think the game developer team is a bunch of historic students when in their University and the Middle and Northern Asia history/culture/language is as exotic as a Amazon Iguana?
Well, since most the historic material we look are dominally Europe, and China or Japan, it is well, make much freshness and exoticness to us all. :bandit:
Double Post
I understand Hebrew (I'm Jewish)
and I can tell you that Karan means " (he) was shining "
but Keren is a "ray" or an "horn"
Koren is "(he) is shining"
Btw, I didn't find anything about taiidan as wel,
In the end they (relic) will tell us that "It just sounded nice, so we took it"
hahaha, I finally get to know that Koren DO have a meaning.
It never occur to me it means "he is shining" :bandit:
and err....I am no Jews though, thus dunno wat it means, and pick it up cause it is convenient for me to remember (my name in Joint with 3rd word drop)
May i use the meaning to boost around? :bandit:
Man this has been an eye opener for sure!! great history and meanings..great stuff.now when i play Homeworld and Homeworld2 i'll know i'm learning something...you all should get together and write a book about your finding..maybe its an idea.. I think a Relic member should tell us where they got all there meanings and all for the HW games it would be great to know..
#89
Sajuuk sounds like Seljuk, as in Seljuk Turks. I already mentioned there are lot of Turkish style references in the story, such as Turanic Raiders (Turan is the ancient homeland of the Turks located in Xinjiang-Uzbekistan.)
Taiidan could be the Tai-Shan mountains, which is north of the Kharakhoram (Kharak) mountains and the Kunlun (Kun-laan) mountain ranges. Between these ranges is the Taklamakaan (Makaan) basin. And guess what, Turan is north of this area.
#90
I dunno where you find all these references Crobato. I exhausted my few history texts a long while back when this thread was new. Maybe I should have just used a historical atlas instead. Fascinating stuff.
#91
Being a little bit of a historian helps. The Taklamakan basin, the Kharakoram (Kharak and the corum in Faal-corum), and the Kunlun is in modern maps though. Try the Xinjiang province of China. A lot of this stuff is related to the Silk Road (e.g. Battle of Talas).
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