Different looking marines in the same squad ?

[compiler]

For various reasons I'd like to have marines with different looks in the same unit (different armors, colour variations, etc...). The idea would be to have the marines being chosen randomly between 2 or 4 different meshes.
I don't see how I could do this since it's always the same mesh that's called, but before giving up on this idea, I thought I'd ask some real pros here.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer.

[ChunkyMrEvil]

I'm not veyr good at all this but couldn't you have a look at how Possessed work? They have different models in one unit, but I'm sure you know that already Sorry, I really am a noob at this kind of thing.

[compiler]

I'm even more of a newbie and I had not thought about this.
Thanks a lot : I'll check in those files.

[Olgerth Istaarn]

Cannot be done without a new "space marine" model which would include all the different parts and have something called "visibility animations".

I have that on authority from Relic. Someone like Xen would be able to explain it in more detail.

[Boredpilot]

I have already modeled the armour varients from mk 2 to 6 for use in the HH mod, also some other mods have expressed intrest in the mark 6 to include into theres to have some randomness into the squads so its not just mark 7s seen.

[tom-sa]

It'd definitely be cool to have squads with random combos of Mk. 7, Mk. 6, and Mk. 7 with Mk. 6 helmet.

[EnderIII]

i never really messed with models or anything, but could you make it call the model, and have a program in place of the model that randomly selects a model and feeds it that?

[BrSgt_Burns]

The quick answer I think is no!

I had a looked at this but can’t see any way to add methods
outside compilation. A squad is multiples of a single entity
with one model ext_method e.g. the Squad Sgt’s but I
couldn’t find an ext object/class that would help us.

[BrotherLucius]

I think you can, the possessed marines do just this, take a look at them. They have 3-4 different models

[BrSgt_Burns]

good stuff! i never even noticed this requires more research

[Boredpilot]

I think with the possesed marines it uses the same base model, but there are a number of arms all but one at a time is made invisible and its just changes what is and isnot visible (Please correct me if im wrong as I havnt looked at the code only the model)

[compiler]

I'm planning to recreate my tabletop Space Marines chapter which include a mixture of Mk 6 (corvus armour) and female Space Marines. There are also a lot of marines not wearing helmets.
I think I can model them once I get my paw on my friend's computer (with 3DSmax in), but it would definitely be even cooler if the armours are already done.
Do you plan to share them, Boredpilot ?

[BrotherLucius]

The possessed have different heads as well, some wear helmets, others do not, and so forth.

[Boredpilot]

compiler, im happy to share any of my models with anyone, you may want to wait till we have full texture maps and animations for them.

Ill post a pic of the mark 6, this was textured by kendo (looks great in IMO) kendo is has also started on texturing the mk 3 and 4 and the prehersey terminators.

The marine looks slightly floaty as there are no shadows, and I believe there have been some minor changes to the studs as well since this one, but the horus heresy site is down at the moment so this is the last of the mark 6 I have

[[SLS]Xen]

the PSM is made up of the following bits...now, i havent looked closely enough to tell how many variants relic did but basically you have 2 heads (one marine helmet, one dinosaur) 2 left arms (claw and tenta cle)and 3 right arms (claw, tentacle and bolt pistol.) i think that works out to like 12 possible variations. they all work as visibility "layers" for the same model and all use the same animations/motions. they work exactly the same way as the regular space marine model, which has 5 versions.

the sergeant uses the same texmap and alot of the same parts but hes really a whole different model because his back banner has to be animated. also, his CC weapon is in his left hand so the CC animations had to be reversed. not to say that you couldnt put him in with the regular model... (the standard SM has "idle, run, melee and die" anims for the HB and missile that are different from the standard ones used for all other weapons) but it was probably easier on the brains of the relic animators to have him and the assault marine each in their own unique whm and whe files.

see, those guys had something easily available that we dont (yet) and that is .RML's or "relic motion lists," which are the names and orders of the various actions taken by a unit in the same structure that they are called by the game engine. this is then burned into the .whe file when you set up a model in the OE.

for example: the basic boltgun SM has 7 slightly different "idle" anims. each has an identical start and end fram so that they can be played back to back seamlessly. the rml basically includes an argument something like this one that says:

if [unit_space_marine_bolter] = idle
then
play [space_marine_idle_[random 1-7]]
return

now, if that particular marine is equipped with a flamer then theres only one idle anim.

the only difference between that and the PSM is that where the above says "bolter," theres an arugment that says [possesed_space_marine_[random version 1-8]] since they can all use the same base anim structure and it doesnt need to be redone.

the kicker is that changing a single thing...for example moving the UVWs or making a different shoulder pad (or helmet or whatever) visible or randomly ocurring...like if you wanted to put in a random sprinkle of mk 6 helmets...give the sgt a correct shoulder badge, or put a triangle on the heavy weapon guy's shoulder, you have to re-export the whole shabang! once its exported, its a snap to load it into the OE, load the space_marine_base.rml and simply apply it to your new model...you can even "xref" all of the existing anims since none of them have changed and neither has the base structure of the guy just a couple little details!

easy, right? ill bet the relic animators got all the SMs in the game and working in an hour once they had a complete .rml for them and an exetensive library of extra anims for those odd cases where the base ones didnt work (like the HB with his big long ammo belt dragging the ground)

so, again I say....IF WE ONLY HAD A WORKING .RML everyone with a straightforward mod would be able to pop it right into the game! in fact, im willing to bet that the following mods, with a complete .rml for the space marine and would be most of the way done in a week:

Tau
cadian inquisition
HRMIG
thousand sons
horus heresy
dark eldar
necron

off the top of my head. most of these guys have models already made and textured and in the process of animating. they would all have at least 1 unit ingame too, since you dont even have to model the anims in max provided the unit has a similar structure and and movement style to an existing one...you can just XREF it in the OE! all the base infantry uintis ause the exact same biped anims (except the eldar who run kinda funny but die, idle, shoot etc the same way as the orks chaos and space marines do)

anyway...long post but im trying to make a point here;

MOD community! get a working .rml together and it will have the same effect on mods as beroc's tool did on texturing

[RoNsTaR]

I'm not in modding, but this would be too cool

[compiler]

Unfortunately, making such a .rml is way beyond my abilities.

I'd have a couple of questions about all this :

1- Can the "random x" trick can be used for a whole model ?
I mean, can the squad lua call for a random marine mesh everytime it creates a unit or adds a new marine ?
For the possessed, there are 3 body parts with several random combinations. Is it possible to say to the lua "if you take helmet #1, then you must also take torso #1, shoulder pads #1, etc... "And, if you don't get helmet #1, then choose randomly for the other parts except #1 for each body part" ?

2- I planned to use the Space Marines Ref.MAX to make the basis of my female Space Marines. What I wanted to do was import it in Max, rework the Geometry, export it as a static mesh, then re open the Marines MAX, delete the marine while keeping the bones, and importing the female marine in its place. Does this sound possible ? Or is it for this kind of things that the .rml is essential ?

[nuriel_xavier]

if youre doing a straightup marine model, it would be quite simple, as the animations would be the same. you could xref the anims from the space marine, and i saved the rml for the space marine, and could send it to you, or you could export the reworked bones/mesh combo ie the finished female marine, and send me the sgm you export from that. it should work really simply. if not, well, ill still try and help you

[Freelancer]

2- I planned to use the Space Marines Ref.MAX to make the basis of my female Space Marines. What I wanted to do was import it in Max, rework the Geometry, export it as a static mesh, then re open the Marines MAX, delete the marine while keeping the bones, and importing the female marine in its place. Does this sound possible ? Or is it for this kind of things that the .rml is essential ?

erm fluff wise i was under the impression females could not become marines as the process was designed for the male body. Thats why there are the sisters of battle whom as i recall are druged up and highly trained from birth and given the best weapons and armour possible.

[compiler]

@nuriel_xavier : thanks for your offer. I really need all the help I can gather. I've modeled some things in Cinema 4D, and rigged them for use in Poser, but that's all by modeler experience.
At the moment, I'm struggling with a 3DSMax reference book and trying to figure how I can do things in this unknown program...
I'd really need some help/tutorial about rigging meshes in 3DS Max. And a good step by step tutorial to import a mesh, rig it, and export it would be most welcome.
I have not figured out yet what exactly were xref, sgm, whe, whm and rml files, and their respective use.
I'm learning it slowly...
Thanks in advance for your help and patience.

@freelancer : fluffy... Fluffy codex is a varying thing. I can remember the time when Ollanius Pius was a guardsman...
I've designed the Space Dragons chapter back in 1990...
It was inspired by page 269 of the Rogue Trader edition. BTW, on page 268, it is said "The Adepta (Sororitas) is organised along similar lines to the Space Marines".
I have a complete history that justifies the presence of female marines as members in good standing of the WH40K universe. I may post it online one day (if you're really nasty...). Granted, this chapter strains the patience of the Inquisition... but I don't care too much about expert nitpicking analysis of the variations in the WH40K background.

There is only one fluffy rule that's worth remembering IMO : "the Universe is a vast place".

[Freelancer]

lol nice come back true rouge trader states that im just restating the current 40k stance m8 go ahead female space marines would be an interesting site

[Joreit Amirald]

this sounds exciting I cant wait to see this

[Kendo]

Its to do with the visibility setting in the OE, various parts of the mesh can be swapped around using this variable so its definately do-able. It can also be random like a motion in the OE

[mudflap]

Hi Bored Pilot:

I see a few posts back you posted some Mark 6 marines you are working on. Am I the only one excited about this? :bandit:

How is progress going on that model. Is it available for download.

Feel free to post it in the files seciton of my nurglings group if you like.

Cheers,

Greg

[Nevin]

I got an idea, beg relic for their Possessed squad Lua's on and stuff! That'll get us ahead of the game.


AND, not to piss on your fire man. But that Mark 6 is a year old, developement on it, and that mod has died out I believe.

[mudflap]

Its a damn shame! :duck:

People put so much work into these then they fade away. Hopefully someone still has the Mark 6 on their harddrive.

[compiler]

Kendo was kind enough to send me a copy for my Space Dragons mod.
I plan to make it the basis for a veteran unit.
I still have much to learn about animating and integrating infantry in DoW, so I'll attack this when my vehicle mod is finished (Rhinoz).

If you plan to make your own variations, I suggest you'd ask Kendo for a copy of his mk6 armour WIP.

As for the topic of this thread and the mixing of several units into one, I guess there might be a problem of memory requirement : the polycount would increase and, more than this, all the additional parts would have to be stuffed on the same map as the original, or else DoW would have to load and manage twice as much texture map data as it does in the basic version.

[Seraphim2150]

Winter assault WILL include different soldier models in one squad!
see link

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/news/...t_Review;17262

[mecha_manic]

sorry to say but it turns out that in the winter assault expansion pack marines in squad look varied.(thats 2 mod relic have stolen)

[p0seidon]

there is still hope maybe the variations is only for the ig.

[Cap. Napalm]

there is still hope maybe the variations is only for the ig.

erm.. you mean "there is hope, maybe the variations are for the 5 races" I guess ?
I don't see how relic could "steal" mods. You'd prefer every good ideas to stay at the "cool let's mod it" stage ? or have it in every online game you play ? Think before you post.
..

[p0seidon]

srry