Dreadnoughts Vs Preadators

[Brog Maneata']

ah g-day,

whilst playing the demo (yeah i know, but im gettin the game from "santa" in a few days) i noticed that i was using dreadnoughts alot untill i watched my dad whom of which was using just preadators.

ive sort of come to the conclusion that both have their merits and flaws so here i go (hope it dont sound to newbish :bandit: )

Dreadnoughts: dreads are and always have been my fav. they have obvious advantages over Preads in the fact that they can get into CC and deal out a nice amount of Damage but when it comes to firepower they are formidable but no where near as good as Preads and as for the amount of damage they can sustain, its good but not as good as Preads. the best weapon i find to arm them with is the assault cannon as i find that it will hit more often than the lascannons and fires pretty much non-stop. the Hellfire dreadnoughts are alright in a defensive situation but i find they are too slow and are out paced by everything else on the advance.

Preadators: these are VERY dangerous! there are several diffrent weapons options (as you know, Dur!) but my fav is making squadrons of Preads, 3 in each two with twin-lascannon turrets and heavy bolters and one with all lascannons. this is a very nasty squad to run into as it can tear apart armour and infantry to no end. another one i like to use is a single pread armed with an auto-cannon, heavy bolter and lascannon, wierd yes but very versatile. or you could arm them with autcannon and lascannon sponsons.

Overall the Pread comes out on top, with it superior speed, firepower and damage control, i think its better investing in these than masses of Dreads.

these are ofcourse my veiws so dont think im trying to tell you how to play, i would liket to get your feedback on the topic and see what you all think

cheers fellas

[Patrograd]

I think the thing about Predators is that they're not available until Tier 3. They are a much stronger unit than a dread (although they cant be deep struck like dreads can) and if you upgrade just the double cannon to a lascannon (rather than doing all 3) then you have a massively powerful anti everything unit.

Dreads need to be thought of as anti infantry IMHO. Dont upgrade them, just leave them as is and they will chew up even Assault troops or termies as long as you ensure they are used in close combat rather than ranged. Dreads are pretty much the most powerful Tier 2 unit available (bar the Librarian perhaps) and a group of 5 or 6 dreads will destroy most opponents.

[Kool_Kirby]

Any unit can deepstrike (I think) if you put them in orbital relay...at least i know all inf can, i once dropped a librarian and force commander in the back of an enemys base (LOL), and it was tier three.....orb bombardment...

[CommisarYarrick]

Any unit can deepstrike (I think) if you put them in orbital relay...at least i know all inf can, i once dropped a librarian and force commander in the back of an enemys base (LOL), and it was tier three.....orb bombardment...

neg. You can deepstrike scouts, tac SM, apothecaries, primary and seconday cmd's, hellfire dreads, dreads, termies, assault termies, and servitors. assault marines, and any vehicle besides dread and hellfire dread cant get loaded in. almost everything, but not quite. although, dropping a rhino on the enemy from space would actually give the transport a use.

[Black Death]

need you ask? dreads! Its the funky animations with them ripping apart enemies and throwing them 100ft that endear them to me...
besides, you really have to love that deep voice, especially when it yells at orks to die...

[PHoenix_UK]

i find myself laughing when i see one spinning like a top... i mean, i never pictured a dreadnaught doing that... but it makes sense when you see the orcs get slapped LOL... ah, rib tickling i tells ye.

[POPS-[true]-]

ive once done a frontal assult with a landraider, preds and 4 squads of normal termies and saw them take down about 20 dreads, all of which were deep striked. The deepstirke ability is only good at an early tier 3 and only if your ally is helping you with tying up their army, otherwise dreads do die exceptionaly quickly

[Dalan]

I thought predators were avliable tier 2, with lascannon upgrades only avalaible at tier 3 ?

[Tiresias]

That's only for chaos

[apettican]

although, dropping a rhino on the enemy from space would actually give the transport a use.

I have seen rhinos used a little. They come into their own on 4v4 maps when you are in a back corner and need to help out your buddies fast. That said, I still prefer speeders or drop pods. There is however a gap at end of teir 2 where speeders die fast and you cant get pods yet.

If they got a storm bolter, they might even become commonplace.

Andy

[POPS-[true]-]

the only problem with giving something as cheap as the rhino storm bolters is that you could end up with a rhino rush quite close to the beggining of tier 2 before they have dreads. You could do this to just mow dow their infantry, which would be a little unbalanced

[Minsc S2]

Transport talk:

Eldar: Falcon Grav tank: Weapons: Shuriken catapult and Shuriken Cannon/Star Cannon

Orks: Wartrukks: Weapons: Big Shootas
Squiggoth: i dont know the names but a hell of weapons at least :P

SM/Chaos: Rhinos: Weapons: noone

actually i think that rhinos could get atleast a heavy bolter
(and actually, i T.T they have)

[Jakaero]

Minsc, I believe you are thinking of the Razorback. Poorer transport, but heavy weapon turret.

Please, someone tell me how a friggin' stormbolter (essentially doubled bolter) or twin-linked bolter would be unbalanced? The falcon, the eldar transport, is deadly if ignored. Try leaving it shooting at your troops with a starcannon, and enjoy your broken troops. The trukk has big shootas, which are pretty good at mowing down infantry. Give the rhinos their stormbolters and they might get used. I just do not see how the firepower of a or one accurate marine (if you make them twin-linked bolters as they are often depicted) could possibly unbalance the rhino. One trakk or trukk would STILL a better infantry killer than two of the things, but at least the thing would not be utter worthless once it gets its cargo to the front. The falcon would still be worlds ahead against any target, and it can jump. The Landspeeder, even at two rhinos vs. one, would massively outclass the rhino in terms of crushing infantry. Would you rather face two rhinos with bolters or a dreadnought/land speeder? Which do you think is a better use of the 2 vehicle cap? Unless the rhinos have some role (and currently it seems that they just don't), why even bother with them?

In TT, not only can the rhinos fire off smoke and shoot a little with the bolters, they can block line of sight to the squad that just got out. They are also vital in getting the marines into CC against certain opponents, and getting devestator squads into a good position quickly. All in all, very useful toys. In DoW, they are just quite possibly the most useless vehicle in existence. A strong breeze destroys them. I do not think I have ever seen replay of a competent player using them, and I am not sure I ever will.

[Padds]

nah there uber sexy

[POPS-[true]-]

well what im saying is that at least the falcons cost something, while the rhinos are dirt cheap. i personally dont agree with the rhinos not having bolters, cos that is probably closer to the Warhammer universe anyway. im just saying that with SM as good as they are already, they need no bolstering.

[Brog Maneata']

good to see ive started an intresting topic.....

in fact i use rhinos quite abit, even with their lack of armament i have two or three following my main army around so if they need to get out fast they have transport waiting, unfortunately i have to leave a squad behind to act as a re-guard other wise the rhinos invariabley get shot up, but its worth it.

cheers

[Shinova]

You could use the Rhino's smoke grenades. 50% reduced ranged damage sounds great.

[bobthebobdude]

it sounds good but sucks ***

[Ace | Neutron]

First up, the Dread vs Pred thingy :

One thing that mustn't be forgotten is that Preds cost 3 in Vehicule Cap, whilst Dreads only cost 2.
This means that when you can have 6 Preds OR 10 Dreads (or a mix). The thing is : It's only logical that Preds are "better" than Dreads but, as some people have been arguing in other threads, you cant compare units like this. Its unfair both costwise and Cap wise.
Now me myself, I mostly use Dreads, not because I dont think Preds are good, but because you can Deepstrike Dreads ;-)

As for the Rhino issue, I agree with what some people said, they are next to useless. At least with my "playstyle". I mean, whats the use of driving a unit around when it cant shoot! So why not use the V-Cap for another Dread, since the vehicule cant shoot either? If the SM would've had a CC unit that can be loaded into the Rhino (IIRC ASM and Termies cant) then there could have been a use for it by sheltering the unit while getting it to the combat.

Ive got a "suggestion" as for making the Rhino a better unit, and still not "unbalanced". The idea with giving it a "stormbolter" might work, but I think there might be an even better solution. Instead of giving the Rhino a bolter, give Rhinos with units in it firing capabilites. For example loading a SMsquad of 8 into a Rhino gives the Rhino 4 "boltguns" (or whatever theyre called), one for each non-heavy weapon. If you put a squad of 4, where all has got heavy weapons, they wont be able to fire since the heavy weapons are too heavy ;-)

So, what do you think?

[Hunk]

Battle Bus... Might work for a Hum-ve. The Rhino doesn't have windows.

[Nameless]

Yeah even the passengers in a chimera can shot at stuff... as can the auto cannon and hull heavy bolter! Marine got gipped on basic transport.

Transports beside ships or planes for crossing water tend to be iffy in any RTS. In a fast paced generally close quarters game like DOW if they can't fight their just plain useless.

I honestly don’t know what you could do to improve them and be in anyway contestant with fluff even adding twin bolters isn’t going to do anything IMO. oh now I have a vehicle with the fire power of 2 marines that really makes me want to use it more! Never mind that you’d need to add stuff to the model (I doubt they’ll ever do that outside and expansion) and if you're going to do that you may as well go further and add the razorback. It might work but everything and their mother on the space marine side already seems to be packing lascannons do we need ANOTHER unit with them on it?

And frankly it still probably wouldn’t be used to carry anything it would cease to be a transport and just becomes a light tank at that point… so the soul and point of the unit is lost. All it now is another shooty thing in your army.

I fear that the rhino is doomed to forever live in neglected unit hell.

[Darkone_1]

O, here how it works dreds are better cuase they got CC, and can have ranged, they alot cheaper, produce faster, and overall are better. SO Dred's are your anwser.

[~DeathJester~]

obviously dreads! yeah predators have the firepower and all but dreads can deap strike and they have their own firepower
u can get about 10 dreads max. and u can beat the enemy with them! :0

some advice with orbital relay and dreads:
build ur 3 dreads, upgrade them anyway you wish and you can put them in the orbital realy and send them off to battle! just advice for anyone who didnt know

[Dragoncurry]

Then get rid of the rhino. Why put it there if no one uses them or if they have no use. It is very rare that it is used to transport things. I tried to get my FC out of combat by using the rhino but then I forgot the rhino dies to servitors attacking it.

[sarton]

I'm no five star general. That said, it really depends on the enemy and map. Overall, I much prefer preds. In fact, I don't use dreads that much (prolly why i'm not a 5star). It always seemed to me that preds are the tier3 answer to lots of problems. Backed with some termies, they go a long way to killing big things and buildings.

[Darkone_1]

First thing stars have nothing to do with being good, its ranking you want to look at.

[Zoulrage]

well if you ask me i would increase rhino hp by 1500 or even 2000... they are more fragile than a freaking landspeeder.... whats the point in that??

heavy bolter or not rhinos would be very useful if they had alot more hp...

[Dragoncurry]

Well that wouldn't ahppen because woops look now rhinos are spearheading attacks and after they take down 40 orcs at long range with their 2000 hp out pops a tac squad raping even more. I think that if they put a Heavy Bolter on the Rhino they should put aftershock on the troops taht come out if the rhino gets destroyed. (For balance)

MY 100th POST. w00t!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!

[Blastrogath]

I think the rhino's are pretty useless right now.

Putting a hull mounted storm bolter on them is a good idea, maybe even a pintle mounted one too. This gives them a little touch of short range firepower of their own, as much as 1 or 2 non upgraded terminator figures. It'd be nice if when they're loaded up 2 passengers could shoot out the front (like in the TT game) but I'm unsure if the game engine could support it.

Also, they should have a little more life than a landspeeder, but not by much. (5-10%)

Making the rhino actually usefull could cause game balance issues, and if it does the Req cost of the unit should be jacked up. I for one would prefer a more expensive rhino that is good for something.

I do not think it's a good idea to turn the rhino into a razorback (twin linked Hvy bolters), especially if it's still capable of carrying a full SM squad.