A Message from Games Workshop about DoW mods and Fansites

[Dranoel]

We need an IP policy because the law requires us to make a visible effort to actively police and protect our rights or risk losing them. If we lose control of our IP rights then we lose the ability to create cool, high-quality games – that includes Dawn of War. If (to take an extreme example) we were to allow people to create a mod that had players fighting against super-intelligent giant badgers with their Space Marines it could (hard as it is to believe) lead some people to think that super-intelligent giant badgers are a normal feature of the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Sounds pretty harmless, but if each mod introduced one or two subtly different elements (some silly, some not), very quickly it can become really hard to tell what belongs in the 'real' Warhammer 40,000 universe. So, if your mod contains *any* elements from the Warhammer 40,000 universe, it must contain *only* elements from that universe. If you want to use the mod tools to create a game set in an entirely different setting, go for it. An all-badger no-Warhammer 40,000 mod would be fine by us...if badgers are your thing.

Personally I'm not worried by this at all. The warhammer universe contains incredible diversity as it is. You don't need to have Space marines vs Giant Badgers when you can already legitimately have:


SPACE MARINES VS DINOSAURS!

Oh yes people! Eldar Maiden world armies could always potentially field Maiden world troops mounted on giant dinosaurs :smash: (I've got the old Codex Eldar to prove it). This was before the days when you had to worry about balancing your army and you could deploy (if you wanted) an entire army of Dark reapers led by exarchs and Maugen Ra! I can see it now - Assault troops vs pterodactyls, Librarians vs Iguanadons, Force Commanders vs Stegosaurus. It's a shame Tekken 4 and Mortal Kombat Deception were never released on PC or they could be modded to allow FC vs Velociraptor fights!!

I can see it now - a custom mod featuring Dinosaurs of all shapes and sizes as well as a custom Space Marine chapter (embracing the creativity shown in introducing the Blood Ravens). The Chapter could be called the "Orange Pansies" who are a bunch of non-practicing homosexuals who spend all their freetime gardening and scrubbing the kitchen. Their Chapter symbol could be an orange pansy and all their marine badges could be altered to include stylised brooms and mops instead of swords. Led by their mighty Chapter Master I. P. Nightly and Librarian Lord Rusty Bedsprings they could investigate the horticultural potential of an Eldar Maiden World (devoid of any obvious Eldar presence) only to encounter the resident beasties. I think this concept should fit straight into the spirit of the 40K universe - Don't you Moge?

[Moge]

Well, isn't this a direct violation to the IP?

hybris, I haven't had a chance to look at the site fully but they have an appropriate disclaimer and it doesn't look like they're mixing Warhammer imagery with anything inappropriate. They also don't appear to be selling it, so at first glance it's completely in line with the IP policy.

Cheers,

-E

[Moe]

Cleaned up the thread a bit.

Blackfang: we have this nifty PM feature, please use that for your private conversations, that way the thread won't get cluttered any more.
Demonhorde: don't tell people to "stfu".
Dranoel: a little common courtesy would be nice - for example you could not post comments that are practically swimming in sarcasm. And the "GW Blokey" does have a name...

[Moge]

verybad
While I like the universe Games Workshop has developed, they are well known as being rather nasty to the mod community, having shut down mods of other games that had GW based content in them.

verybad, could you name some of the mods that GW has shut down recently? For the several years that I've been doing this job and that we've had this IP policy in place, I don't know of any mods that we've shut down. There have been times when we've gotten in touch with mod makers, and asked them to make sure their mod is in line with the policy, but I don't know of a single one we've forced to shut down. For some time now we've been very proactive about helping the mod community to create great mods in a way that doesn't put our rights at risk, so if you know something I don't I'd be very interested to hear it. I don't know everything after all!

Thanks in advance!

-E

[monkeynutts]

Take a look at the Daemonhunter Mod

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/file/...ters_Mod;37634

its got all new modelling of IG steel legion and EVEN Grey Knights!!!!!! and Terminator Models.

take a look

[verybad]

There was a Quake 1 mod that I know of that was discussed on Blues News quite actively shut down by GW. As for recent efforts, I'm not aware, I think the modding community is frightened by GW.

Even if mods aren't shut down, the modders have been scared away by GW's policy, it's easy to find discussions re this on many boards (eg Epic games). Yours is quite possibly the best art'ed game universe out there, it's first rate stuff, but I think that it's a closed universe, and by "protecting" it it is not made alive to it's fans, that might work for some people, but many modders tend to want more control of what they can do.

Quite frankly, I find difficulty in believing that a third party making a Badger mod to DoW would cause irreparable damage to GW's interests. GW just seems to act like a nasty behemoth towards people that love it's stuff sometimes. (Please note this is NOT an attack on people that work for GW, everyone's an individual and deserves to be treated as such).

For instance, I'm a good modeler and texturer, I'd do it professionally if I weren't epileptic (extended computer use can make me siezure) Over the last couple years i've worked on a series of mods to Mechwarrior 4 that were very well recieved, and the content I and others involved developed during that time would be easily brought into the DoW engine as it's been optimized for an earlier engine, and uses similiar formats for some things.

But I can't lever previous work because of the GW policy. It just makes people figure they may as well find a different (more friendly) engine to play with. Modders aren't doing it for money, they're doing it because they love modding. I've never in my entire life heard of a mod damaging the fortunes of the company the mod was based upon.

I have nothing but the deepest respect for the artists working for GW. However whatever GW's policy is re this, I don't think it's ultimately contstructive or truly in their best interests.

I think GW has created a universe that can stand on it's own, but they treat it as though their own work couldn't suffer the onslaught of third party mods.

*shrugs* I gotta stop in any case for my health.

[Moge]

I'm likely at risk of turning into a broken record again, but it's genuinely Games Workshop's desire (and mine) to support the mod community as much as possible so I'll keep trying to explain. People keep reading this thread, so I guess you're not all sick of me yet!

Quite frankly, I find difficulty in believing that a third party making a Badger mod to DoW would cause irreparable damage to GW's interests

The badgers seem to be a real sticking point for a lot of people. I picked giant badgers off the top of my head to illustrate a larger point about staying true to the Warhammer 40,000 universe. It's not really just about badgers of course. Curse my lack of creativity! I know it's not what people like to hear, but it's just not ok to make up whatever you like and stick it in your Dawn of War mod. I'm genuinely sorry that some of you have trouble believing that doing that could damage GW's interests, but all I can do is assure you that everything I said in my original post is true.

GW just seems to act like a nasty behemoth towards people that love it's stuff sometimes.

I'm sorry you feel that way, although by setting up this thread to inform people has never struck me as nasty behemoth-like. It certainly wasn't the intention.

But I can't lever previous work because of the GW policy

Feel free to PM me with more details and we'll see if there's anything we can do about that. Our policy itself doesn't necessarily stop you doing that, but it will largely depend on the contents of the work.

I've never in my entire life heard of a mod damaging the fortunes of the company the mod was based upon.

Maybe thinking of it this way might help. My house has never been robbed, but I still lock my doors, have an alarm, and buy insurance to protect myself. Whether or not something has happened before has no bearing on whether it can happen.

This is a good place for me to thank the great teams from the active mods. Tau, Necrons, His Righteous mod and others have all been great. So far they have all been very accomodating, understanding and willing to take the few steps necessary to satisfy GW's legal needs. This community is great, and it's a pleasure being involved!

Cheers,

GW Blokey

[Scumbag509]

I know it's not what people like to hear, but it's just not ok to make up whatever you like and stick it in your Dawn of War mod.

You'll soon find that both the modders and the downloaders don't care that GW considers it "not ok". They thinks its fine, and thats all that matters. By the time you'll get a whiff of it, its already mirrored everywhere. Bethesda learned it with Giants, you'll learn it with one of the myraid non-TC non-Warhammer mod additions I've played.

I have 5 mods in DoW right now that has non-Warhammer stuff on it. Now, your OP tells me to email legal, but... I don't think I will.

[Ordo Normanus]

There is one little of facet of info that most of you seem to be forgetting. GW is REQUIRED BY LAW to show that they are protecting their IP. Just my two cents.
Have a good night.

[Blackfang]

Well i for one have no problems with what GW are asking. It really isn't hard to follow, and scumbag i think you'll find that a lot of the major mods being created care rather a lot about the laws set down, we tread a fine line but we talk to people like Erik who keeps us on the right side of the line! I think i can speak for the entire Tau and Dark Eldar teams when i say that!

[Ramrod]

psst, monkeynutts, i'm not sure what you tried to accomplish with your post.

steel legion and grey knights are both from warhammer 40k, unless my IG and DH codices changed in the last day since i flipped through them.

what moge said basically translates to:
go ahead, mod any existing 40k units into a 40k mod, and even make up your own (within reason)! do not, however, make a mod where you pit Imperial Stormtroopers vs... well Imperial Storm Troopers...*!

whiners, read before posting. these are hugely broad boundaries to work within. you guys complaining about IP, are you currently working on a mod about space marines fighting an army whose units are made of living diarrhoea? no? then zip it. your comments are not required nor admired.


*i really hope people know the difference

[xaphan deciever]

I have a few points and questions (2 of each).
Point 1: As a TT player I am sick of paying huge amounts for GW minis. Metal Dread and plastic Dread same price. Why?
Point 2: I can see why GW has the abovementioned legals and would want to maintain the integrity of the 40K universe. I also respect their right to do so. Nuff said!
Questions to Moge-
Question 1: What would happen if I decided to do a mod featuring ummm....say loxatl and hrud? There isn't alot of info on these races so most of it would be unfluffy(??new term???) but as long as I make it in sync with the already established 40K universe(and bothered to research as much as possible) that should be fine. Yes?
Question 2: We of the tattooed fraternity really would like an answer on the "massive world eater marine on a field of skulls" tattoo on my back issue? Should we tell our inkers to get out of town?

[giskard]

Well Gamesworkshops Rules are practically identical to all rules from all companies that have produced games I have modded in the past.

The biggest exception is Gameworkshops insistance on crediting everything from an avatar upwards as their IP.

Usually a single line somewhere in the readme is enough but with GW its an EPIC disclaimer thats required.

The Derivative work is common clause too and applies to everything from free stuff made on linux under the GPL licience to Microsoft. However, even microsoft asks the mod maker for permission to use their Derivative work if they want to use it. So its a far more complex issue than GW's Disclaimer makes out.

At the end of day though it benefits GW to keep their name in the spotlight and it benefits the fans because they get to immerse them selves in the 40k universe.

Theres nothing here that comes as a surprise to established mod makers.

Though the CD copy issue for mod releases has always been a pain in the butt given the size of some mods and the ability to get a mod hosted. Its a dodgy area most legal teams hate dealing with so issue a standard NO if you ask. It comes too close to the PROFITING from a mod issue.

Giskard

[Penitent]

Its so straightforwards, the idiocy of people here is amazing.

The reason for all this is, on forums for the TT game there is a small core of players who will argue with each other in a blind rage (raaarg!!!) for days about "big bad GW" and bitch and piss and whine.
They must have been biding their time around here after the influx of 40k TT players brought them in (funny how they bought DOW and gave GW money relaly :hmm, cos' the TT community is sick and tired of hearing about it, so they moved on to torment the DOW community. :bandit:

You may have noticed some people whining here aren't even talking about the IP issue but rather just making general complaints of prices and other only vaguely related things and taking the oppertunity to attack GW, just ignore them like most TT players have learnt to in other forums.

[Nurizeko]

i can get away with a chaos army of the chaos god hello kitty on TT but i cant get away with hello kitty in DoW.

frankly i think GW as a bussiness is weak in the sense its prices are extortionate, it always takes and rarely gives, and it behaves in general like a selfish child.

frankly i hope the modding community mod the DoW game all they want, GW need to get off their coroprate high chair and stop behaving like the greedy assholes they are...my 2 cents.

[Moge]

xaphan deciever asked:

Question 1: What would happen if I decided to do a mod featuring ummm....say loxatl and hrud? There isn't alot of info on these races so most of it would be unfluffy(??new term???) but as long as I make it in sync with the already established 40K universe(and bothered to research as much as possible) that should be fine. Yes?

Sure thing, go for it. I can't promise that we won't do more work on the races that we've made reference to in more detail, and thus make what you've done obsolete. But of course, if you want to give it a shot, go for it. And I know some of you are thinking it, so let's be clear: that doesn't give you an excuse to make the Jokaero look like Care Bears!

I know you asked a second question, but the answer is already in our policy. Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult - it's just an awkward position for me to be in. I can't advise you on what to do other than adhere to the policy.

Cheers,

-E

[SgtSteve]

Greetings. A few of us are in the process of assembling an online narrative (story driven) campaign that uses Dawn of War as its vehicle. Basically, we've got a story and several teams will be duking it out according to the objectives we set out.

We're not using Mods, or even any special maps yet (although we do plan to implement a few tailor made maps for special missions down the road), and since the games will be run on Gamespy, only the current version of the legally purchased game will be allowed.

Our story is 100% original material. Character names and locations are all being fabricated for the purposes of the campaign, and we are even creating an original space marine chapter that will play a part in the story. All other material, refering to the Imperium, the Eldar, etc will be according to the official fluff. All the persons involved in the creative process are big BIG fans, and working extra hard to keep it all accurate.

Any concerns from your end? The creative lead on our team had some concerns that we would be violating some IP laws. When our forums / website goes up, there will be a disclaimer (as found on the GW legalities page) stating all rights and names are property of GW etc etc. A straight cut and paste.

So again I ask, any forseeable problems with this? It's all fanfic, and done on a volunteer basis. Webspace and work time is also being donated, no money is changing hands anywhere. Also, signing up is free - there will be absolutely NO transactions of any sort associated with the Online Campaign.

Thanks for your time.

[Penitent]

Nurizeko you can't even make hello kitty in TT, because GW doesn't own that copyright, and they couldn't give you permission if they wanted to. And another price whine, whats that got to do with this thread?

If there's one forum topic I never want to have to see again its a damn price whine, so things have gone up a few pounds in the last few years (try comparing 40k to other hobby's, if it's not mainstream it's not cheap sadly), get over it or stop playing, but either way stop bitching too cos' I'm sick of it. Your not making GW suffer, just the rest of the community who come online to enjoy the hobby more. Now lets get this straight, I don't mind the fact you think the prices are too high and that you want GW to know it, but bitching on forums just because someone from the GW legal team showed up (whats he gonna do about it?) doesn't do a damn thing except get tiresome to everybody who has to read it.

[Ethrion]

Well said penitent. If only you would be listened to by these whiners...

Keep up the good work GW.

[General Blaze]

Whiners are just that..Whiners. THey don't listen to others. Just the sound of their own voice.

[WalkerK19]

To Nurizeko,
Mod the game as they want? Even violating other game company IP right by doing a total convertion on DoW using their game?
WC3 in DoW?

[General_Heidern]

As long as it isnt for commercial purposes they could mod the game to whatever the hell they want, they just have to say "This is not affiliated with such-and-such a company" and maybe give a link to the official site for whatever they are ripping off, that way not only are they not taking credit or charging for it, but providing free advertisements!

[Moe]

General Heidern, I suggest you read through the rest of the thread. Giving proper credit is not enough - you would still be violating the policy.

[chaos565]

thank god i just play mods and have little to no inniative to make them :>

[Dranoel]

I guess you could violate the policy as long as you don't distribute it! It would be a shame but you could probably make a really weird mod providing it was only for personal use (like cannabis - you can only really get done for dealing!)

[Agnosto]

My IP law is sketchy at best, I only took 1 class on intellectual properties and 3 on contract law. Dranoel is right; you can modify the game however you like as long as it is for your own use, you do not distribute it, charge for it, take credit for it, etc. That takes away about every reason I can think of to mod a game in the first place... Personally, I can understand where the legal team is coming from; just some CYA and doing their jobs.
Of course none of the people here are happy with limitations. If I had the time, inclination, and ability to mod a game, I'd be grumpy about the hardline, follow the letter of the law approach too. I mean, seriously, if you throw down however much hard-earned coin to buy a product, you want to be able to actually OWN the product you buy. Imagine the people that made Rogue coming after me for changing the storyline when I was in high-school (programming in basic was so easy...) Well, times change and so does company policy.
I stopped playing warhammer because of all the restrictive policies that GW puts forth. I'll use whatever paint and models I want, thank you very much.
Ok, in danger of a rant.
pant
pant.
cheers.

[Catt]

OK I have read most of this thread but skipped bits of it so forgive me if this has already been asked:

Can you make a mod combining elements of Fantasy Battle with DoW? For example could you make a Skaven mod? Or are Warhammer: Fantasy Battle and Warhammer: 40,000 considered separate IP entities despite both being made by GW? For that matter could you add elements of Blood Bowl or Necromunda or Epic or anyother GW game world?

[Charmless]

Once again the stupidity of some of the pc gamers out there leaves me amazed. As much as many of you think your rebels by going against a multi-national corporation more out of spite than anything else I wish you to consider the following. Games Workshop has spent many years creating an entire fantasy universe in many guises (swords and socery to boltguns and chainswords) what they have achieved is on par with, and probably greater than any role playing game or fantasy book that has come before and it will remain one of the greatest games and fictional histories for a long time to come ,(im convinced harry potter is the bastard child of Micheal Jackson and Uri Gella). By playing online I have come to realise many pc gamers are completley un-awhere of Warhammer as a table top game, and many that do consider it a geeky/nerdy concept which leaves me smiling when it they are playing computer games at 10:30pm on a saturday night (I have an excuse, the wife prohibits me having fun anymore)

What Relic has achieved is a fantastic RTS that is accessable to all, but by being this way is would be easy for modders to confuse what is Warhammer fact (or should that be fiction?) with modders own inspired fiction (the other kind then I guess...). I dont pretend to know much about IP rights and so forth but for the sake of a modder distributing something that would result in the harming of the Warhammer worlds and stories we have to ask is it really worth it? Im sure those who are purely interested in DoW as a pc game couldnt give to shits, after all a new RTS will come about sooner or later but for the rest of us who, even after the online DoW community drops to 5 people and a dead monkey continue playing the TT game the damage that could be potentially done would be horrendous. I for one dont wish to see my Space marines taking on the Giant Badgers spawned froma a mind that really needs to get out more.

Finally, id like to point out most of those against these IP protection will never make mods anyway so stop protesting about things that dont make outburts about things you have no understanding about or simply dont concern you. Otherwise you will be as popular as America.

That is all.

[daemos2791]

OK I have read most of this thread but skipped bits of it so forgive me if this has already been asked:

Can you make a mod combining elements of Fantasy Battle with DoW? For example could you make a Skaven mod? Or are Warhammer: Fantasy Battle and Warhammer: 40,000 considered separate IP entities despite both being made by GW? For that matter could you add elements of Blood Bowl or Necromunda or Epic or anyother GW game world?

On the question about the Warhammer and 40k worlds being the same or not, GW has been less than clear on the facts of this, however... here is what I heard from someone who works at one of GW's retail stores, weither it is true or not is up to you to decide... or some one from GW to reply on :argh:

If you have a "Space Marine Codex" there is a chart in it (page 47 of the third edition Codex or page 8 of the new fourth edition Codex, although in this one the table is slightly smaller and harder to read) containing information of the original 20 legions. look carefully and you will see that two legions are completely removed, with the term "all records expunged from library - order origin unknown" these are not the legions involved in the horus heracy the "choas marines" as they are all listed with the term "Excommunicate Traitoris". this means that two primarchs, the super humans from whom each original legion were made, were most likely never recovered after they were cast to the stars (more of 40k's backstory there)

now in the fantasy wahammer we have a world that follows the teachings of a man called Sigmar, who arived on a twin tailed comet. this "comet" could very easily have been a drop pod, which you will note has two or more engines depending on its type.

since 40K tells us that all human worlds experienced a "dark age of technology" some even collapsing into fuedal era tech or lower, it is quite possible that the "fantasy" world is actually a planet in the "sci-fi" 40k universe... but until GW says one way or the other... we'll never know

As for Necromunda, Necromunda is a game that is set on a planet in the 40K universe and I would assume is thus part of the same IP... as for blood bowl... that i cant comment on

Oh yes, and epic IS 40k with rules set up for battles containing bigger vehicles (like titans and the Baneblade) and much larger troop counts than standard 40k... so Epic I would assume is part of the 40K IP

however... putting such elements together isnt so simple as comparing the "fluff" while earlier edditions of 4ok and fantasy warhammer had compatible stat systems, this is no longer the case. similarly the rules for necromunda may or may not exactly match 4ok, and the same can be said for epic, even so it is possible to use such elements in a mod

[BloodQuest]

As someone who's had experience dealing with GW, I wanted to make a few points in their defence:

- GW is, to the best of my knowledge, the only game company to have survived for the length of time that they have. TSR, SPI, Avalon Hill and many others have come and gone, some have been bought out by other companies, but none have survived a takeover unscathed.

- GW's employees, even at the highest level, are not terribly well paid. And their shares (stock) are hardly a goldmine either...

- While they can sometimes appear to be a little anal about the fluff, I've generally found that any "You can't do that" has usually been followed with "but you could do this, this or this".

Just my twopennyworth...

[daemos2791]

As someone who's had experience dealing with GW, I wanted to make a few points in their defence:

- GW is, to the best of my knowledge, the only game company to have survived for the length of time that they have. TSR, SPI, Avalon Hill and many others have come and gone, some have been bought out by other companies, but none have survived a takeover unscathed.

- GW's employees, even at the highest level, are not terribly well paid. And their shares (stock) are hardly a goldmine either...

- While they can sometimes appear to be a little anal about the fluff, I've generally found that any "You can't do that" has usually been followed with "but you could do this, this or this".

Just my twopennyworth...

well said indeed... although im not quite sure whose post your responding to, although I believe its Catt's... They are indeed very willing to sare every possible way for you to get the type of army you want within the rules. However, one must remember that the table top game on which Dawn of war was based has several rules that are from a purely modeling standpoint, ol' WYSIWYG and what not... and others are "you want an ALIENS (tm) army? use the tyranid rules, counting the queen as your hive tyrant etc.., but these are all battles with real minis that GW can easily say are theirs or not. This computer game can easily blur that line... and as stupid as the statment on page one of someone thinging there are man sized bipedal rodents in 40k (and GWI, to that I say... is that a skaven i see in the fluff section of the 3rd eddition rule book?!?? ) some people might actually think its part of the original game.... sad I know, but it is possible.

still, im with you on your assesment of the employees... but we have to remember, they are paid to know the rules

and that means they know the ways around it

On another note... GW has always been on the side of personallizing your army, there are supposedly over a thousand chapters of space marines... so a non standerd SM army you add is still GW IP compatible... ah the joy of fluff loopholes... and there are several, those of you who havent played the table top game, go out and atleast read some of the mass amounts of background fluff... it will help... i promise

[UaintSeenMe]

I just wanted to say that untill a friend of mine sent me a link to the first page of this thread (you have to share true comedy with your friends) I had not played DoW, I had no intentions of doing any mods for it and pretty much had little or no intrest in it at all.
Unfortunately i have a rare mental dissorder that requires me to go against any and all authority figures i can find.

The all new "Try and stop me" Mod so far includes, Chickens with mortars, a giant floating Butt (you dont wanna know how it attacks) and pair of ninja ballroom dancers.

This is NOT a joke, this is a real mod that I and a few friends decided we would do in an effort to have legal action taken upon us, we have every intention of releasing it (for free) and just as soon as some of the basic skins have been completed i will be posting a link to the official page, if any of us can be botherd to make one, for screen shots and stuff.

And for the GW reps who may or may not take any notice of this forum, we are only doing this cos you insist on forcing quite frankly laughable rules on the internet community, who as you must be well aware are a free thinking and free living bunch of people who do not take kindly to this sort of censorship and restriction.

If you had kept quiet then you probably wouldnt have had any problems of this nature, but oh no, you just couldnt resist tyring to enforce your views and opinions on us.

When will the mindless corporations realise that the more you try to control our actions the more you bring yourselves in to our line of fire.

Please feel free to have your legal department bombard my email with thinly vieled threats of unlikly legal actions you would bring against us if this was a different reality with different laws where you could actualy follow through with your threats. (we all like a good laugh from time to time so why dont you entertain us.)

[General Blaze]

Okaay... About the silliest post I've read all day. :bandit:

Edit: after re-reading that post, I could'nt stop laughing! Whoever you are, you've got plenty of wit!

Best first post ever!

[Killalot]

Please PM me when that mod is done. It sounds PWNAGE.

[Dranoel]

Once again the stupidity of some of the pc gamers out there leaves...
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

That is all.

This misses the point... to create a mod of a game takes incredible time and effort creating stats, scripting, animating and modelling etc. For the mods to have any success there is also the tweaking that is required to ensure sufficient compatibility with existing units. Whilst it was great that the modding tools were made so readily available, the restrictions GW is trying to impose would limit the creativity and flexibility of those producing custom mods considerably. With the investment of time and effort by potential modders this is a serious pain.

The responses in this thread are as much about expressing the frustration, highlighting flaws and trying to lever as much flexibility from the GW reps as possible. After all the games which flourish most with respect to the modding community are those with the greatest flexibility. Check out the rules (and incentives!) of the recent "Make Something Unreal" Competition!

[General Blaze]

Still, the mod community hasn't been damaged severely and many of them are still working on some high quality mods, so there's nothing really wrong to complain about. Besides, total conversions are still permitted, so GW's modding rules aren't as bad as SOME people make out to be.

[Dranoel]

I know but it is still discouraging...

It's also very tempting to stick your oar in and give it a twist whenever a dos and don'ts post is made. So tempting in fact that this is now post number 187 in the thread.

[General Blaze]

HEy, the Starcraft mod for DOW is still around, though.

[verybad]

I don't think that this "no badgers vs space marines" policy would be upheld in a court of law in the USA, as the second ammendment protects your freedom of speech. So long as you aren't making money off a mod using the DoW engine, you can do anything you want. Copywrite laws don't apply, as anyone using that mod would have to own the original game to use it, it would be difficult in the extreme to prove damage to the owner of the copywrite, and embarrassing legally I'd imagine.

An equivalent would be inventing a new (computer) language, selling that language along with a book telling how to use the language, then telling the end user that they can't make certain types of programs using your language. It's simply not supportable legally. Or IMO, morally or ethicly.

Quite frankly rereading this policy has made me determined to not buy any more of GW's products (i've got @ 5 or 6 of their Codexes) despite what I consider their high quality. It's immoral and hypocritical to support or defend such policies. No such policies were necessary for Relics Homeworld 2 mods such as the Star wars mod, etc. No one is confusing Homeworld for Star Wars, and were a Star Wars ground based mod (for example)to be introduced to DoW, no one would confuse those two products.

Mods are a form of speech, and are protected in America. I dont' think the GW endusers agreement is really protectable here. I'm tempted to repurpose some of my Battletech artwork from the MW4 mods MekTek has made to directly challenge this policy. I'm not trying to be hostile here, I just don't think that this policy is legal or justifiable.

[Triceron]

I think GW's policy is perfectly understandable and not at all intrusive on the prospects of modding. The Space Marines and Warhammer 40k universe are their intellectual property. If they don't want Space marines being mixed up with some other random character, then it is their right to say it should not happen.

From a modding perspective, I also don't see anything wrong with this policy. If someone has a mod in mind, they will make it. If it's something that isn't a part of the 40k universe, it shouldn't involve 40k universe elements in it anyways.

Keep in mind that this is still GW's Intellectual Property, and there ARE laws made to protect copyrights. It isn't our right to use their IP, it's a priveledge that they let us use it.