This tangent should be moved to Tefari's mod, if anywhere else.
Back on topic, do the fuel pods still have their weak gun? And if so, does it have a hardpoint now or do bullets magically fly out of the center of the model?
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#51
This tangent should be moved to Tefari's mod, if anywhere else.
Back on topic, do the fuel pods still have their weak gun? And if so, does it have a hardpoint now or do bullets magically fly out of the center of the model?
Native Taiidani
Author: Children of Kadesh, Children of Kadesh (book 2), The Taiidan Civil War, The Fire ,Tradition, Outcry (oneshot), Chronicles of the Nadiim-Basad,
and maker of the Map of the Homeworld universe, and the Homeworld 2 Grand Strategy Game. Responsible for Cataclysm 2nd. Also has a running short story collection.
Actually on of neddleships has managed to escape in some cases.
And the Great Nebuale is huge. It's possible that one of the neddleships was away and when it returnde to the heart of Nebulaue it seen other neddleships destroyed. So it's not 100% sure if Kadeshi are dead.
well, maybe the kadeshi are building an army, to avenge theire losses.
But as ceade says, let´s return to the topic: How many people are working on this mod?
It amazes me how many people think in 4000 years, a race which technically, never lost their technology could only build 3 ships.... And as I recall, multiple ships broke off and headed into the nebula. That nebula is huge, you can't raid trade routes on such a large scale, with a pitiful fleet like that... And where did they build the Needleships? The concept that they are all dead is an ignorent idea that holds not weight, at least in any realm of rational thought, and that's taking into account the irrationality of a zealot. And why would their be Kadesh ships in Cata... I mean, the beast weren't likly in the Great Nebula, why would they be? Thay wanted to feed on ships, to find the Naggarok and subvert the resisting races. Unless they were given a reason to enter the nebula, they wouldn't. And as for not seeing them again while playing HW:C and HW2, who'd be dumb enough to try their luck at going back into the nebula to risk facing the vangarde fleet of the Kadesh? I wouldn't be that dumb. For instance, if you get stung by a bee, when walking near a hive, do you run back to it a week later poking it with a stick?
If you don't want to even consider basic ideas like these, please, at least stop trying to make your thoughts out to be fact... Shesh.
Link_of_Hyrule
I totally agree with you
Last edited by Legion116; 24th Apr 05 at 1:43 AM.
#57
We're still debating this here?
First I appologize to Deathwish for this thread hijack. I tried telling people to move this to Tefari's thread, but I guess they don't listen.
Second of all, my arguement:
Your arguement, Hyrule, says the Kadshi never lost thier technology based on the fact that three ships broke from formation into the nebula. Well one; if there had been more than one ship we would have seen it- the Kadeshi had their Khar-Toba almost completely intact as if they revered it as some kind of noah's arc. Second, they indeed lost their technolgoy, because by the time the Khar-Toba sistership got to the nebula generations could have likely passed, and everyone forgot about the fantastic Hiigaran technology. That, and it could have been completely civilians in that ship and non-military personell. I think the Kadeshi swarmers, Fuel pods, and Frigates came from that Hiigaran carrier first, while the motherships were patched together from raider hulks or assembled from using the carrier's PDA.
Sure the nebula is huge but there's no rule saying that you need more than three ships to guard it. It's like a haunted house- when kids know it's haunted they don't go in there and rumor surrounds the place. When something like every two freighters out of ten goes missing and is never heard from again freight captains don't want to take the risk and start avoiding the nebula. When more ships survive this way it becomes the fact. Any captains brave enough to attempt the nebula get killed, and thus the 'legend' is renforced because even the bravest didn't make it through.
Since Cataclysm didn't have the basic understanding of anything as simple as a map, we don't know how big the beast problem spread in the galaxy. I read one fan production that says a Kadesh needle ship was infected, and there are mods out there that feature a kadeshi ship infected, so I assume fans can take this as canon? Secondly, why do the beast have the heavy Corvette as a unit in their arsenal when they could have just been given the Kushan multigun version or no heavy corvette at all. If in the story the Kadeshi were there, then they would have had some captured ships (unless there were no ships to capture. I can't really press this point because there isn't a lot of indication as to how big the beast problem was and if it ever got to the great nebula).
By the reasoning 'The Exiles can do it,' and post HW landfall, the 'myth' of the 'impassable nebula' was probably broken and somoene could have tried to go back there based on what the Hiigarans said. Or maybe the Hiigarans themselves went back to see if any kadeshi survived, and if any did they could have been offered seats in the Daiimid. (Or fought and killed with just about every encounter with the Kadesh).
I don't see your arguement defending the fact that the kadeshi have a multitude of large ships from frigate designs to destroyers; but I'll state my opinion on the matter.
I see the protectors having a wide range of swarmer-like units but hardly any capital craft (certainly not a battlecruiser!) by the time of the Exile's arrival. It fits their mentality of having a mass of small fighters to 'swarm' with and larger starships in the fire support/assault category.
It's possible that there were more needleships in the nebula and that only three were 'around' to stop the Exiles (Which I disagree with- after all if there's an emergency I'd think they would have summoned the entire fleet to stop the 'unclean'), but to say that the Kadeshi have something like five huge battlecruisers that could have destroyed the Exiles at whim is silly. If they did, why werent' they close to the Cathedral, or with one of the three needleships attacking the mothership? If one existed it would have been there to fry the 'unclean' as the Multibeam frigates were. The same goes with any large capital ship force- if it was there it would have made some kind of appearance.
Once again I appologize to Deathwish for this unessisary Hijack- please PLEASE if you are going to argue move this to Tefari's thread (Or make a thread in general discussion) and talk only about mod things here.
new thread started to avoid this hijacking
#59
Thanks Ios.
Link?
Sorry if it was posted and I missed it... but can someone post a link to the actual Requiem War main mod? I can't find it >.<
*wants to try glueing the Kadeshi ships into his version of PDS*
All I can say is, nice way to waiste your keyboard. You say things, pretending I argued the beast infected them... I never said that, and you try and convince that they are deffinatly all wiped out, yet you did prove a point... By saying how do you know? I don't know, but it doesn't make sense that they put all their people on a couple ships... And according the HW, there are more than one prisonships that entered the nebula, breaking away from the group. And like I said, are you fool hardy enough the risk your life on "Maybe they're not that strong anymore" and jump into the Nebula trying to tick them off? Especially during the beast crisis... "Hey, lets lead the Beast into an area of powerful ships.... WHEEEEEE!" Now... Since you've already admitted the possibility your wrong, I'm ignoring any further posts about this debate. See ya.
And by the way... Nice Mini-Mod, hope the Kadeshi MBF gets straightened out.
#63
Hyrule- stop the thread hijack! If you want to rant, there's a thread for it!
Everyone please, if this is about the Kadesh Canon debate go find the thread. If it's about the mod itself, post here. I don't think the mod teams appreciate these kinds of discussions in their dev forums, so please put appropreate posts in appropreate topics.
Thank you.
I can't help but notice that the Multibeam Frigate's dance neither hurts nor intimidates the enemy, and confuses the commander.
Also, is seems that all ships seem to want to fire just meters above a destroyer. Drives me a little crazy.
it's being worked on
My Needleships and Multibeam Frigates are utterly incapable of hitting anything bigger than a shipyard unless it's a capital class that is close enough to the face of the Needleship for one of captains to open an airlock and write his name on the other ship's hull with a sharpie.
This makes me sad.
Is the Needleship supposed to have secondary weapons along the spire, cause I don't see em shooting.
#67
Now that I have HW2 working I just might give this mod a spin...
DW (or whomever) are the Kadeshi going to be in their own race slot or do they replace one of the existing races? I've heard mods do this before (The Macross Mod for example) and I was hoping it was the case here.
After some fiddling, I think I fixed the main problem with the multi-beam frigates and the mothership.
Basically, you need to mod their AI and wepn files so that they target and move to attack things better.
A frigate, when attacking fighters and corvettes, should NOT have "MoveToTargetAndShoot" as it's AI =p
@Ceade - Kadeshi already have their own slot and don't replace anything.
#70
Berrik - if you would please explain your fix in greater detail and post the code I'll gladly impliment it in the next patch.
Yes, the kadeshi have their own slot.
Basically, fix the multi-beam's stuff to look like this:Originally Posted by DeathWish
As a rule, things with weapons that only fire forwards like this should just stay back out of range and pound away with their beam weapons, not try fancy maneuvers.Code:addAbility(NewShipType,"CanAttack",1,1,0,1,0.35,1.5,"Capturer, Frigate, SmallCapitalShip, BigCapitalShip, Mothership, Utility","Frontal",{ SubSystem = "FrontalVsSubSystem", })
. I applied the same fix to the Needleship, though I still havn't figured out how to fix the targeting of it's ion cannon XP
For my next trick, I'm working on fixing the spinning animation and fixing the beams to be continuous (as the MBF in HW1 would spin and just grind away with it's continuous beams).
I've also been working on making the Kadesh mod work with my own personal copy of PDS... though it has been hard since until I gave the Kadeshi swarmers some improved dogfighting AI, they got swatted easily >.>;
MoveToTargetAndShoot works better if it has some secondary guns around the hull so that it doesn't need to turn it's entire body to bring the front weapons to bear.
Also, since you apparently hodded this, perhaps you might want to set up the four beams as slaves so that they all fire at once instead of in sequence... not sure how to do that though.
Hehe I already have my own special version of PDS with the Kadeshi in as a separate race and on the Hiigarans side, and to make the swarmers affective again you must balance them out with the other ships in PDS.
"When the stars become choked by the dust of war..."
#73
Thanks, I'll try those fixes out when I get home from work. What exactly did you do for the swarmer AI?
Also, the four beams are TOO effective already, if they all fired at once you'd just have to park it next to the enemy mothership, hit stop, and set it on neutral stance, the second it gets hit the pds guns would go off and that'd be the end of it. Making them slaves would require making them animated turrets. Right now they're gimbles. I'll experiment with making them into turrets sometime but it'll be a while. At such a time I might even animate the little dishes that fire them lol.
Anyone have any ideas how to get the needleship's ions to stop firing over the top of enemy ships? It seems to especially do it against frigates and destroyers. Larger ships don't seem to have such a problem...
#74
in my spare time im working on the MBF so it's more capable of hitting targets. It also has own ion-beams which are firing sustainedly for 15 seconds, like in HW1, plus HW1 beam FX instead of HW2's watergun beams.
Ave Qwaar-Jet!
"Once again shall the great seas of space run red ...with the blood of Hiigara"
Quick thing: The .RAR seems only to be 1.50 mb. Is that correct? C'est petite.
The dogfight AI unfortunatley makes use of PDS's own inherent dogfight AI (probably ganked from the advanced fighters thing that was around a while back), so I can't really tell you how it works-- I just copied the AI from the PDS version of the Vaygr Assault Craft.
The idea I have for the MBF is to fix it so that it's firepower in total is about twice to three times that of a normal ion frigate.
Dynamic Fighters introduced the dogfight AI, just an IMO. if you plan on releasing a version with it, make sure you credit the author.... me.
"The superior man...does not set his mind either for anything, or against anything; what is right he will follow."
-Confucius, The Confucian Analects
hey the swarmers (normal and advanced) shoot from the cockpit and not from the guns!
good mod, it needs only some additional scripting but the models are fantastic!
fix it soon
lol, it seems that the pilots rather trust their UZIs then the swarmer's rapid mass driver.
I've extracted a 1.5 mb RAR file and gotten naught but a several kb readme. Help, please!
#81
I just got an oppertunity to try this out. Nice!
But yeah, occasionally swarmers seem to be firing out of the ciruclar port in the nose. I don't know if you thought of this as a cannon or not, but I've never seen swarmers shoot out of that spot in HW1.
I also liked how you solved the resourcer problem. It's sad, but the only way something like this could work I suppose. And adding an extra unit would just take away from the HW1 flavor.
One thing I noticed is that in the build menu you have at least three types of Adv swarmers and regular swarmers each. Is there a reason for this difference?
Also, I built at least two MBFs to try out- and I did see one fire at least one volley at a hiigaran destroyer before it got toasted. Even spun too. But generally it seemed to fly around as a giant mobile target instead of staying put and shooting at the target like it's HW1 counterpart. In the end I had to kill the enemy mothership with my needleship and the tons of swarmers I had in the area.
Another thing is balance. I don't know if you intended on this being a player-race or not, but it seems a little unfair that the Kadeshi don't reasearch anything to get their uber powerful ships. In the origional HW1 one would have to reasearch to get to ints, defenders, etx. Is there a way to enable reasearch by default wihtout a reasearch module? That might help...
And the last one is asthetics. The UIs icons for your ships don't exist, and I'd like to eventually see some for them (The PDS mod has done this with their MOd, and I would do it if I knew how. Maybe you can use the UIs from HWS? They have some reasearch-station looking UIs that Arioch most have taken from somewhere).
Second on this is just a request: could you somehow enable it to change the colors of the ships other than their HW1 team color spots? It would be neat to have ships in a color other than white.
That's my review. Great job, and I can't wait to have RW as one of the mods to play.
exuse me ,but i´ve just been on mods in progres "Requim war". theyre talking about the mod being dead, and stuff like that, so what´s happening with this part of the mod???
Last edited by Elmanon; 2nd May 05 at 9:59 PM.
#83
The latest RW mod update seems to have been in feburary...
I hope this Mod isn't dead. I'd like to see HW1 v. Hw2.
But please, if you're doing cata, leave the beast at home.
Edit: About the mod;
Sadly enough one of the most effective ships I've seeen used against the swarmers is... the Hiigaran destroyer. Three of these cut down an attack force from about 40 or so swarmers to only three.
And my MBFs are still uselessly flying around! Unless I can't use them effectively it means I'll have to charge the enemy with my needleship, or literally swarm them until my swarmers are dead.
The hyperspace windows on the MS need fixing (They need to pass over the ship completely... and they need to be red), and whenever the ship hyerspaces out it just vanishes.
Looking forward to that texture fix if it's ever implimented.
Actually, they are getting excitingly close. If you actually check the RW thread, you will notice very recent progress.
#85
Just a brief update. I've been busy with other projects lately. I've got my own amateur game dev studio, and that group's game has taken priority over hw2 modding for me. The good news is, one of the newer members in that group has a 100mbit connection so I've moved the site to his server, the download link should remain the same, see the first post.
Ceade everyone one with their own comments,mine is:If u don't like the beast then if it ever gets ingame u don play with it and u select all the other comps races as being higaran or whatever,i don see what damage it could do,if its done right of course.
#87
There will be no beast in any RW mod unless we, some years down the road, decide to do a cata mod.
That said, the beta is out, see first post!
#88
Hey, DW this is no longer an issue (in case is the 0.1.b is the release i made) in v0.1.b. My MBF barrel-roll works seamlessly, only little glitch is, that some times HW2 forgets to trigger the firing maneuver. But there are no attack runs, it stands down in given distance to the target, just like the other frigates.Multi-Beam Frigate does not always break from attack, but rather keeps rolling clockwise indefinitely while moving forward in a straight line until a new command is given. If the new command is an attack, the MBF will resume rolling and moving forward making no attempt to change course to hit the target. (not as often as in the alpha)
Looks very nice now. Very VERY nice.
#90
it's rare now, but a couple times my MBFs got too close to their target, and tried to break away, but contined their attack roll, going off into deep space. Also, when they HS into battle they sometimes get lost if they HS in too close. The roll itself though is perfect
BTW: After more testing i've decided starting with three MBFs is overkill. I took out an expert vaygr AI without losing a single one, by HSing to their start poing immediately before I even started resourcing
of course by the time I got to the other expert vaygr on the map it kicked my butt lol.
on a side note, I found that a good strategy for taking out vaygr battlecruises is to park your mbfs just out of their range, and teh second the battlecruiser fires its volley of missiles, HS out the mbf it's targeting, then HS in a second or so later. I *almost* killed the battlecruiser with four MBFs (losing one due to a late HS on my part) but i made the mistake of bringing my needleship into the battle and not having a spare. *OUCH* ah well.
#91
DW, don't You read Yahoo messenger? i uploaded a newer version since that... where i took out the 3 MBF's from the starting fleet. They were only there for me to quick test the barrel roll...
#92
you must have sent the message after I went to bed last nightI'll upload the newest one tonight, sorry for any misunderstanding.
#93
Hey, I can win a 1v1 game with the Kadeshi against a vagyr opponent on Expert in about a half hour. Build a ton of swarmers, swarm everything, kill harvesters, the kill annything that wanders off. The MBFs are too big and two slow and would probably get killed by the destroy the Ai manages to get out. The only problem is that while your swarmers are messing with the enemy, the enemy's 4-5 frigates are chasing your needleship and 'harvesters'.
Gotta note that there is a texture color error on the fuel pod in which only the top part is colored- leaving a 'cap' of team color. If you could impliment the team/stripe Kadeshi fix I suggested hopefully you'll get this.
*runs to grab beta*
And I don't like the beast- even in RW. If you guys do a cata mod call it something else, like 'THE ZOMBIE FLEET VERSUS THE SOMTAAW'- guest staring Homeworld ships! Cata is so far outside of the normal line of HW thought it's stupid.
#94
the team layer on the fuel pod texture is intentional. And it is exceptionally easy to defeat expert CPUs 1v1. Just HS into their start spot, set needleship to agressive, park it. It'll destroy everything in sight before even one destroyer gets out, meanwhile it can be pumping out swarmes and MBFs.
Just curious, what do you all think of implimenting a research tree of sorts for further balancing? Could be a possibility for the next release if there's enough interest.
#95
Balancing, yes, it would be nice. I think it's a little unnerving to have the kadeshi able to build everything at once.
Ever thought about having the fuel pods as miners? Just a thought...
The way I see it the basic swarmer could be the one fighter the kadeshi can start off with, then maybe a speed and armor upgrade (firepower upgrade?) The Advanced Swarmer is developed with the Swarmer chasis perhaps, and it has it's own upgrades. The MBF would need to be under a category of it's own, too.
I wonder- does RW allow for base HW2 ships to have their stats modified? HW1 as we know doesn't have any kind of status/armor upgrades (this is barring cata), just reasearch a topic and a new ship is available. That being said- your mod can start off with the 'basic' HW1 stats and then have your tech-tree upgrades enhance the already effective swarmers to HW2 stats.
Alternatively, you could rig it so that swarmers are in fact <i>poorer</i> craft than in HW1, in which your upgrades would put it to current HW1 stats.
Just thoughts.
And Pleeese can you consider re-texturing for team and stripe colors? I keep putting this out but there's no response. It's nice to see an all-white Kadeshi fleet, but optionally I would like to experience blue swarmers with white stripes
#96
No, we are aiming for as exact a reproduction of hw1 as is possible and playable. As such though I will be redrawing the textures, I will not add details that were not there in the original. There's no reason to do more than enhance. If you don't like that you can make your own mod.
What I had in mind for research was hw1 style; start with ability to make swarmers, but not advanced or mbf, unlock with research. At most i might consider some research for the needleship; start with only the kinetic pds guns, two ion researches (one for each one) and one research for the four launch ring laser turrets. No further balancing is required because they already have less than half the ships of the other races.
The fuel pods are fine the way they are for now; kadeshi aren't *supposed* to harvest at all. I would like to impliment some sort of fuelburn though.
#97
HW1 ships won't have upgrades. And will have research for free. HW1 races will preserve HW1 style gameplay, while HW2 keeps the HW2 style.
Badges: only on some super-capitals/motherships. The only ship that has badges in RW for now is the Taiidan Saarkin-Cho carrier. i also plan to include it on the Mothership. If Deimos agrees, they will also be present on the Kushan Carrier and Mothership.
i don't think they will be there on Kadeshi ships... i cannot think of a good spot for them, plus you cannot imagine how much extra fuss it is to implement a sucky little badge...
#98
I can think of some badge-spots on Kadeshi ships...
I didn't know how much of HW1 RW wanted to preserve, but now I know.
because of this I don't think reasearch for additional weapons is necissary for the MS- as upgrades and additional weapons were only seen in Cata.
So if you're using HW1, why not have the requirement to unlock all the combat ships? Players can start out with the needleship and harvesters, and have to reasearch fighter drives (For swarmers) and fighter chassis (for Adv Swarmers). MBFs need Frigate Drive (Fuel pods) and Frigate Chassis (MBFs) to work.
Good luck on fuel modeling though, I've heard it's hard.
And as an alternative to harvesting, would it be possible to re-impliment RU injections as a default for the Kadeshi? As cool as they are it is dissapointing that they can't harvest. That's why a Post HW2 Kadeshi race is much more plausable, they can harvest- so long as it isn't the nebula
I think that the MBF that the Ghost Ship captured is precedent for Kadeshi harvesting just outside the nebula. It must have ventured into the region in order for it to get captured by the Ghost Ship. Maybe they didn't do it very often, but I'm sure they had a resource collection ship to gather up the debris from destroyed enemy ships at least. None of the ships you see them use in HW1 is capable of boarding or capturing, so there has to be some kind of ship we didn't see which they would keep in reserve until the enemy was destroyed/pacified, and then brought in to salvage the debris.
A badge on the head of the Needleship is the only place I could see one working well.
#100
The only place I can see the Kadeshi harvesting is after HW1- where any Kadeshi migrating from Hiigara to the nebula would have taken with them the idea that deep-space mining was the only way to build a significant defense force. Since the nebula was sacred to them they would have to go outside the nebula to do their harvesting. I don't see HW1 Kadeshi doing this though.
Yeah, the center circle for the Needleship is the best place to put a badge. Also on the head of the MBF/Fuel pod (The MBF concept art has a skull-and-crossbones on the ship's 'brow'. Why not put a badge there? or on one of the wing's. And I thought a badge either on the top of the swarmer in front of the fuel port, pasted on the side of the fuel tanks (The stubs on either side of the swarmer's middle) or maybe on the gun pod.
And how do team color textures work on models? I have decomplied the kadeshi.big file to try to splice it with the PDS mod, but I have yet to recombine it. What would one need to do to make a texture changeable for team colors? I can edit .tgas, which I assume to be what .big files use...
Anyway, wonderful work here and I'll give the new minimod patch a try when I'm able.
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