[FYI] Apr 27.2005 Great Future Models List for DoW!

[thudmeizer]

I've quickly comprised a list JUST for the vanilla DoW factions (SM, CSM, Ork, and Eldar) of all their currently missing units and vehicles. Some are being worked on by other modders while others their situation is unknown.

This list will kinda give a look at all the good stuff that War40k has to offer just based on those 4 factions. The other 7 War40k factions are NOT included in this list as they are all being worked on as we speak.

If you have any to add then please place them into this grand list *with a photo*.

Chaos

BLACK LEGION


Abaddon The Despoiler (Commander Unit)


Marines


DEATH GUARD

(currently being worked on although models to be made unknown)

Havocs+Champion


Nurglings


PlagueMarines


PlagueBearers


Typhus (Commander Unit)


Great Unclean One (Uber-unit)


EMPEROR'S CHILDREN


Marines


Daemonettes (On Mounts of Slaanesh)


Keeper Of Secrets (Uber-unit)



IRON WARRIORS

Marines

Warsmith

NIGHT LORDS

Hero

Marines

THOUSAND SONS

(excluded as they are fully being worked on!)

WORD BEARERS

Dark Apostle

Marines


WORLD EATERS


Aspiring Champion


Berserkers


BloodLetters


Champion On Juggernout


Fleshhounds


Kharn The Betrayer (Commander Unit)


OTHERS


Bikes


Cypher


Dreadnought

Fabius Bile

Furies


Havocs


NoiseMarines


Spawn


Terminators


Terminator Champion


WarHounds

[thudmeizer]

Eldar


Dire Avengers


Fire Dragons


Fire Dragon (Exarch)


Jet Bike


Phoenix Lord Asurmen


Phoenix Lord Baharroth


Phoenix Lord Fuegan


Phoenix Lord Jain Zar


Phoenix Lord Karandras


Phoenix Lord Maugan Ra


Shining Spears


Striking Scorpions


Striking Scorpions (Exarch)


Swooping Hawks


Swooping Hawks (Exarch)


War Walker


WraithGuard

[thudmeizer]

Orks


Ard Boyz


Mega Armour

Shock Attack Gun

Slaver


WarBike


Warbuggy

[thudmeizer]

Space Marines


Attack Bike MK2


Bikes


Chaplain On Bike


Chaplain Terminator


Chaplain


Dark Angels - Veteran Sergeants


Deathwatch Kill team


Devastators


Emperor's Champion


LandRaider Crusader


Librarian (in Terminator armour)


Terminator Sergeant


Terminator with Cyclone Launchers


Veterans


Techmarine (Leader)


Techmarines

[Aron_DeTomado]

Er, may I ask why you posted 5 threads?
Nice work anyways, though.

[thudmeizer]

Forum can't hold that many images in one post! heheh.. hence four threads.. plus, it looks better with four different posts per faction.. cleaner..

EDIT: Argghh! The forum made 4 other threads.. bah! Ah well.. it'll clean itself up overtime. :Pimp:

[wnmnkh]

thudmeizer, then you need delete that 4 previous treaads....

[thudmeizer]

I can't.. forum won't let me.. Sorry everyone. It'll clean itself out or a mod will come in and clean it out.

[compiler]

There are also older units that are great.
I wish I had time to do a Shock Attack Gun, for instance.

[TheOrder]

A few probs with chaos:

With latest rules EC Noise Marines can carry bolters and their armies are not allowed to take normal marine squads, the minis you have there are used for NMs currently anyway.

Iron Warriors also have their own unique marine squads in addition to a warsmith.

Word Bearers have Dark Apostles as their only leader unit (always), their marines are normal except being painted differently.

Bloodletters and flesh hounds should probably go with World Eaters.

Abbadon should go with Black Legion.

Other than that it's a good goal for modders to work toward!

[thudmeizer]

Will Update that in an hour or two..thanks TheOrder!

This thread, mind you, is just a guide for the DoW community to see what is being made OR what we could all be aiming for! Its not just meant as a "requesting this or that" but more for the community to see what its potential is.

Btw.. ThousandSons is developing their own Terminators (non-horned versions though) AND Dreadnought (drool!!).. So much cool stuff the Chaos side can have! <shutters>

UPDATE: All done! Also added Fabius Bile for the Emperor's Children. No updated versions for Noise Marines.. These seem to be quite the anomaly.

[epic40k]

Cant wait to see the warsmith and the chaos terminator champion (if they are done).

[thudmeizer]

Same here buddy.. someday the community will find time.. not easy trying to do all that let alone the accomplishing the 7 other War40k factions in development.

[terra_01]

Thud, I've done a fair bit o googling for death guard. Here is a brief collection of what I've got:


the minature, which in IMO looks better than more recent PlagueMarines:


and, a really beautiful DG termi:

[thudmeizer]

Damn! That Death Guard Terminator looks insane! Talk about the ultimate Cheese Slicer! I kinda like the new plaguemarines myself. No preference really.

Btw, there is a full DeathGuard mod coming out (AI already implemented).. Whether they are working on all the models.. unknown. Not idea on the other Chaos chapters as well mentioned above.. Maybe someday they'll be revisited.

[KuRtCoS]

Just One Thing!

Fabius Bile is not exclusive for Emperors Children!

He's available for Chaos Undivided too(Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Berares, Alpha Legion, Night Lords)

Emperor's Children exclusive chrarchter is Lucius the Eternal, but there's no official model for him. Although, he should look like this Warhammer Fantasy model

Slaanes Champion at GW's Online Store

But with a scarred face, a whip, and in power armour too lol.

Hope this helps

[Chaos Lord]

i hope the IW is started soon, they get more oblits than any other Chaos army, and can use the basilisk or vindicator, they are sooooo cool :smash:

[thudmeizer]

Thanks KuRtCoS! Made changes.. Lucius is nowhere to be found. Someone will have to be creative without upsetting GSW.

[TheOrder]

Just One Thing!

Fabius Bile is not exclusive for Emperors Children!

He's available for Chaos Undivided too(Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Berares, Alpha Legion, Night Lords)

Emperor's Children exclusive chrarchter is Lucius the Eternal, but there's no official model for him. Although, he should look like this Warhammer Fantasy model

Slaanes Champion at GW's Online Store

But with a scarred face, a whip, and in power armour too lol.

Hope this helps

Yeah, I forgot he wasn't associated with Slaanesh. There is a model for a generic EC champion here, but none for Lucius yet. I wonder why they replaced Eidolon with him... The Death Guard got to keep Typhus, the World Eaters got to keep Kharn.

[Grimnar42]

i hope the IW is started soon, they get more oblits than any other Chaos army, and can use the basilisk or vindicator, they are sooooo cool

Well all the models are out there just make your own untill some one puts together a cohesive mod. Thats what I did.

[thudmeizer]

Its alot easier to make a squad marine model + sergeant then, say, a single uber-unit with all its intricies. With a squad, it really fills things out. In time, the community will accomodate all in the list - its a massive undertaking but there is time.

Update: Added the Ork's Hilarious (yet surprisingly tragic) Shock Attack Gun! Let the flying Grots commence! hA! <sinister>

[thudmeizer]

I think an interesting discussion/dialogue should commence why any of the above should even be considered to avoid "battlefield duplication or redundancy"?

I mean.. consider the Eldar Falcon vs the Wave Serpent (the latter is more a pure transport unless you added the araments) but why bother including it if the Falcon does the same? Relic went through this I'm sure so including, for example, any more aspect warriors might just prove irrelevant.

The point being to include units/squads that add extra weapon systems and spice to the game rather than simply dup existing ones! There is no fun in using units that don't add flavour on their own accord.

Anyone see this in the above list - prioritization and removing dups should be interesting to hear the War40k TT experts out there.

[Aron_DeTomado]

I'm no TT expert but Fire Dragons would be "spice up" the game quite a bit since Eldar don't have any anti-tank infantry at the mo.
Striking scorpions and Dire Avengers are needless since there allready is Banshees.

There is allready a disscussion going on about what unts are needed the most inDoW GD.

[thudmeizer]

This discussion is more for the faction modders out there to see and ponder 'directly'. The other thread is more for general use.

The one thing I don't understand is if both Striking Scorpions and Dire Avengers, to use the Eldar for example, are similar to Banshees then why are both those used in TT? Surely there are some unique differences that make them eyed by players that would otherwise choose Banshees?

I've compiled a quick summary of the list from the first page.

CHAOS
=====

BLACK LEGION
------------
Abaddon The Despoiler (Commander Unit)
Marines

DEATH GUARD (being worked on although models not yet determined)
-----------
Havocs+Champion
Nurglings
PlagueMarines
PlagueBearers
Typhus(Commander Unit)
Great Unclean One (Uber-unit)

EMPEROR'S CHILDREN
------------------
Marines
Daemonettes (On Mounts of Slaanesh)
Keeper Of Secrets (Uber-unit)

IRON WARRIORS
-------------
Marines
Warsmith

NIGHT LORDS
-----------
Hero
Marines

THOUSAND SONS (being fully worked on!)
-------------
(Rubic) Marines
Flamers
Screamers
Ahriman (Commander Unit) *Not included in Mod!
Lord Of Change (Uber-unit)

WORD BEARERS
------------
Dark Apostle
Marines

WORLD EATERS
------------
Aspiring Champion
Berserkers
BloodLetters
Champion On Juggernout
Fleshhounds
Kharn The Betrayer

OTHERS
------
Bikes
Cypher
Dreadnought
Fabius Bile
Furies
Havocs
NoiseMarines
Spawn
Terminators+Champion
WarHounds


ELDAR
=====

Dire Avengers
Fire Dragons+Exarch
Jet Bike
Phoenix Lord Asurmen
Phoenix Lord Baharroth
Phoenix Lord Fuegan
Phoenix Lord Jain Zar
Phoenix Lord Karandras
Phoenix Lord Maugan Ra
Shining Spears
Striking Scorpions+Exarch
Swooping Hawks+Exarch
War Walker
WraithGuard


ORKS
====

Ard Boyz
Mega Armour
Shock Attack Gun
Slaver
WarBike
Warbuggy


SPACE MARINES
=============

Attack Bike MK2
Bikes
Chaplain
Chaplain Terminator
Chaplain On Bike
Dark Angels - Veteran Sargeants
Deathwatch Kill team
Devastators
Emperor's Champion
LandRaider Crusader
Librarian (in Terminator armour)
Terminator Sergeant
Terminator w/ Cyclone Launcher
Veterans
Techmarine (Leader)
Techmarines

[stranger]

on the topic of banshees and TT, the main difference between banshees, scorpions and avengers is their point cost. all have the same battlefield role, but differ in the field of statistics and some special rules- the banshee for example have a banshee mask (suprise!)(I cant remember whai it did though) and a power weapon, the hawks had some wings, increasing its movement rate, and so forth, but they all are a specialised CC troops, a role, which banshees (and the seer council) are good at in dow ATM, and I don't see any need to add another squad good in this field...

and for the devastators/havocs- later in game the humble tacticals will be overlooked in favour of them, again, the job devs/havocs would be there to do is done (with nice results) by the 4hv. weapon tacticals. besides, the lack of hv. weapons, taken away from tacs, to make devs anyway different, would seriously lower the chances of surviving early in game

my 2cents
take it easy...

[thudmeizer]

Striking Scorpions/Dire Avengers --> Banshees argument makes sense.. For an RTS, duplication is NOT good gameplay-wise especially for development costs and post-release reaction. Why develop for something few will use if another almost similar alternative exists? Both Striking Scorps and Dire Avengers do look fab but regrettably their functions are tied in so whats the point? Variation is the spice of life!

As for Devastators/Havocs.. thats an easy one.. Just mod a marine squad with more missiles and a lascannon or two. However, creating Devastators/Havocs would almost make heavy vehicles useless as such squads would easily vapourize them! For an RTS, that is NOT good unless a clear balance/tweak were made to ensure all variables were covered.

[thudmeizer]

I'd like to see a quick comparison of units with similar functions and why they don't need to be included..

ie.

Eldar Striking Scorps / Dire Avengers = Banshees
OR
Ork Ard Boys = Nobs Squad Lite
OR
Certain chapter Chaos Marines (ie. WordBearers) are just similar to regular DoW Chaos Marines

Is there a point to Havocs/Devastators or would adding those just make SM/Chaos far too powerful in the anti-vehicle department? Anyway to balance them?

Whole point is to determine what War40k units/heroes/vehicles don't overlap into the DoW RTS, for better more diverse gameplay.

[TheOrder]

Certain chapter Chaos Marines (ie. WordBearers) are just similar to regular DoW Chaos Marines

Except for cult troops all chaos marines are the same. There are however a wide variety of veteran skills available, and two legions have major aesthetic differences, the Night Lords and Iron Warriors.

Is there a point to Havocs/Devastators or would adding those just make SM/Chaos far too powerful in the anti-vehicle department? Anyway to balance them?

Any marine with a heavy weapon is a havok/devastator, throwing a few new weps in and giving them there own squad is not making a new unit. The way DoW is made basic tactical squads take the place of those units so there's no point in making them unless you rewrite the standard squad to be more fluffy, which is up to individual modders to decide but I don't think it's a good idea.

[thudmeizer]

Agreed.

For Balancing purposes I once created a quick criteria list that delineates all the major DoW attributes that a unit defines itself to be unique.

Balancing Unit Criteria
1) HitPoints
2) Firepower
3) Range
4) Rate Of Fire
5) Recharge Time
6) Cost
7) Population Limit
8) Speed
9) Accuracy
10)Build Prequistes
11)Upgrades self with features
12)Transport
13)JumpJets
14)Teleport
15)Use Special Ability
16)Enhancement Auras To Infantry/Vehicles/Buidings
17)Squad Formations
18)Reinforcement Speed
19)Penetration Value

For DoW, we could also add weapon types since the War40k universe has, what, 25-30 different and unique weapon systems for the entire board game?

Giving, for example, a standard marine squad a Las and Auto-Cannon would basically turn that squad into a Havok/Devastator as it has all else including Missiles. Useful? Perhaps but that would then negate wanting those weapons for vehicles so everyone would just create Havok/Devastator squads.

[IBBoard]

I've never played Eldar TT, but I always got the impression that Dire Avengers were uber-Guardians rather than full on assault troops.

And as for Orks (which I have played TT!) they haven't had Shok Attakk Gunz since 2nd edition, and as far as I can see from the WTPs (not played them in game!) they're also missing:

Kommandos (Infiltrators with cammo)
Skarboyz (harder boyz/weaker Nobz)
Lootas (scavenged heavy weapons)
Dreadnought (big brother to the Kan)
Big Gunz (crewed by Grots - can be a Kannon, Lobba or Zzap gun)
Burna Boyz (a mob with more burnas that can be joined by a Mek instead of a Nob)

And then you get in to the clans (like Speed Freaks and Snakebites) who have a few things of their own!

[stranger]

the orks in dow actually miss the killer kans not dreads, relic did a li'l name swap...

[IBBoard]

Ah, fair enough, never played against them much (maybe one level of the demo - been too busy modding it without enough time to play proper since I got it at christmas! stupid job) so I didn't realise they were dread sized instead of Kan size.

[thudmeizer]

Kommandos (Infiltrators with cammo)
Skarboyz (harder boyz/weaker Nobz)
Lootas (scavenged heavy weapons)
Dreadnought (big brother to the Kan)
Big Gunz (crewed by Grots - can be a Kannon, Lobba or Zzap gun)
Burna Boyz (a mob with more burnas that can be joined by a Mek instead of a Nob)

o Kommandos = Grots with Infiltrate? Just as good as you just need the LoS revealed anyway?
o Skarboyz (harder boyz/weaker Nobz) = Nobs? Nobz still better all-around anyway?
o Dreadnought = Kill Kan regardless? Kill Kan is just under a Dread so don't think Orks need a more destructive unit do they? Orks are about massing huge mobs so that balances things out.
o Big Gunz = ? Yep.. Those look more like Medieval/Civil War field cannons. Ork have the WarTrakk/Loot Tank for both those.
o Burna Boyz = Slugga with Flamer upgrades. No need for special Burna squads as you just upgrade a squad with just Flamers.

I still like the Shock Atackk Gun but yep... its old and might be difficult to implement (loading a nearby grot then firing it at superhigh velocity ricochetting off targets).

Btw, IIBOARD.. do you do model texturing? Have you had DoW faction modders come to you to help skin their models?

[IBBoard]

Killa Kans are quite a bit weaker than Dreadies in TT though - less weapons, less armour, less attacks, and 45pts Vs 70+weapons (which is 80 to 100 pts, or 130 if you max it out for uber-shooty!)
I'd say Kommando's should be a separate type though - they're not just infiltration, they can be used for a quick suprise attack (which grots couldn't)
Big gunz are more static, but I suppose in DoW they share a similar position (especially considering most of the maps, which would greatly cut down their range)

And yeah, I do skinning. Not had any modders approach me though (must not be good enough ) just a couple of people with questions and one person ages ago wanting cammo (in the middle of me working on another project and having another few ideas in the pipeline!)

[thudmeizer]

Killa Kans are quite a bit weaker than Dreadies in TT though - less weapons, less armour, less attacks, and 45pts Vs 70+weapons (which is 80 to 100 pts, or 130 if you max it out for uber-shooty!)
I'd say Kommando's should be a separate type though - they're not just infiltration, they can be used for a quick suprise attack (which grots couldn't)
Big gunz are more static, but I suppose in DoW they share a similar position (especially considering most of the maps, which would greatly cut down their range)

I guess its the same reason why Chaos never got a Dread (which is soooooo being rectified in the ThousandSons mod and damn it looks fine!!) - Relic didn't want too much duplication of units although Chaos Rhino/Pred are the exceptions. Rhino being the peice o junk it is until Compiler came around and totally kicked it up 1000 fold!!.

Orks and Commandos.. hmm.. just don't see that too much. I think there was a reason the Grots got Infiltrate and not others. Still.. could be doable.

Big Gunzz.. I always liked em although they do look old. I could imagine little Grots laughing and giggling while loading, priming, pivoting around, then shreaking a little firing the barrel. That would be classic!

Re: You skinning/texturing ability.. so you'd be open to possibly skinning models then? Yer a texture artist so you can take drawings and skin em using, say, Photoshop/Illustrator/etc?

[IBBoard]

I can try my best I haven't done anything on the level of most of the skinners here - I've mainly done reskinning in the form of moving bits around between layers than talented "adding bits and making it look real" skinning probably doesn't help that I'm a programmer!

[thudmeizer]

LUA coder? What are your current projects? Dabbing into texturing really rounds ya out! :bandit:

[Heavyarms2050]

god that alot of mods you can do with all those figures

[thudmeizer]

I know but we're debating what should be/not be included as some of them are really dups over existing units. For an RTS, you gotta have unit diversity.. no unit must be the same or else thats a waste of development. Each unit MUST add to the gameplay - none should be redundant - EVER! I really REALLY RTSes that treat first Tier units irrelevant due to the higher tiers being better. ALL UNITS MUST BE USEFUL AT ANY STAGE! Thats the sign of a good RTS! Hard, of course, to balance but then again one isn't in this industry as a novice.

[IBBoard]

No, sorry, not looked at LUA coding yet Just generally more of a programming geek (PHP for my site mainly, or C# at work - doing a Computing Science degree at the moment) so I've got more of the logical skills and a small amount of artistic tallent rather than enough artistic tallent to do a skin from scratch! Really wish there was some way of learning how to do the effects and make weathering look good and things - at the moment it is very much just play and see (or, with my current projects, cut-paste-save )

[thudmeizer]

Updated!

Added to the main list:

Terminator with Cyclone Launcher, and
Dark Angels - Veteran Sergeants

IBBoard: One of the cool aspects of DoW is the ability to make new weaponfx. Most of the faction mods have especially Necrons so its not surprising that down the road before and around the expansion we will see some incredible work that'll list DoW perhaps into cult/classic status just due to how incredibly rich War40k is by itself!

[p0seidon]

:bandit: this list is so good that it is (...) in a good way.

[ricocet]

First of All The Terminator for Death Guard is a modified Typhus. Second, You need Lucius In the Emperor's children. Also you need Daemonettes not on the steeds. Also You need a Daemon Prince and lords for each of the different Legions. Like Death Guard, (obvious). Night Lords, (a Lord with wing on his helmet or head), etc. Also I have a Daemon Prince with wings. And Lords too. For Chaos. Also for SM, You should add the different LandSpeeders. Blood Angels' Baal Predator, And SMs Have a Ton of Heros Too many to mention right now. (I don't have the books in front of me right now) And not just in Blood Angels, Dark Angels have a Champion in a Land Speeder. And Space Wolves Have a Dreadnought as a Hero. Just a few things I can think of. I would like to see everything in game. This would be the best game ever then. (Not that it isn't now)

[TheOrder]

All cult termies at the moment are conversions, there are no standard kits for them. There's no mini for Lucius as was discussed earlier (he sucks anyway, do Eidolon!) There is only one daemon prince model, to make one for a specific god you have to convert, so they are far from uniform, I'd leave their appearances up to specific modders. Their are some "champion" or "hero" minis around for different legions but only one actual lord (Warsmiths and Dark Apostles excluded). Yeah, there are way too many SM heros, I'd leave most of them out...

[MrChaos]

Looks like some anime halberd-cheese-slicer-like thingie...

[alejandrinus]

Ive made an ork warbike just for fun and testing my skills in 3dmax, hope all of you enjoy it :bombface:

Still in early stage but is in the right way...

[[AVCG]Stone]

i hope the community is willing when race mods are done willing to make a unnofficial expansionpack include all the best race mods and the unit expansions roled into 1

[thudmeizer]

ricocet - DoW is an RTS and thus duplicating units is a no-go. Diversity and uniqueness add flair so including those things you asked are redundant. I'm sure each chapter has some units with "appendages", "flairs", or "addons" that make them unique to another but this thread is for things that are unique. Faction modders will know, for example, what the SM's Space Wolves require to set them apart however this thread deals with extremely unique and interesting units for an RTS. I've covered, I think, everything that would round out all 4 existing DoW but even then those on the list (ie. Dire Avengers/Striking Scorpions = Banshees) may have to be removed like Relic decided to in their decision to omit certain aspects from the Eldar. RTS-wise balancing comes first.

Btw.. alejandrinus.. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT! Looks fab! Love the goggles too (from an Ork Flamer)! Well well done! Would love to see that animated with lots of hilarious Ork-like anims (Ork Biker pops a wheelie knocking over his own nearby troops).

[MrChaos]

Speed Freeks!!

Goes well with the Steel Legion Mod campaign!!!

[ricocet]

@ Thudmeizer: I absolutely agree with you that balancing comes first. But everthing can be balanced. Even If An Army of nothing but nurglings, with Upgrades and stuff can be balanced with the original 4 armies. It may not be 100% fluff. But there is always a way to balance everything. I tried my hardest to balance out everything as much as possible. And I am fairly certain that I could hand my mod to you or someone else and find a few more issues to balance it out more. And I prolly will keep trying to balance it out. But look at the new unit coming in from the expansion. The BaneBlade! Even in TT it isn't 100 % balanced. If you don't have enough vehicle penetration in you army, You will lose. And some times, you can throw every thing you got at it and still not kill it. And I wasn't posting them because they aren't Balanced. I posted them Because I think Would look great in the game. Sorry If I wasn't clear.

@Mr. Chaos: Yes, Me want Speed Freaks!