[orks] wich solution vs choas predators ? predator imba ?!!

[jeantend]

look at this replay :
http://dow.sanctuary-network.com/ind...howtopic=3531&

or this one
http://www.wgpower.net/replay-dow-193.html

first replay show orks has double more economie, but cant get the choas preds ; the pred with his lame economie can go 3rd age and the orks cant win...

the second replay show how an ork 3rd age cant get a chaos 2nd age with his predators...

and now the question is
is their not a problem with chaos predator vs orks ??? imbalance problem ? no solutions for orks ???

[psychodil]

Firstly this thread is likely to get locked, as it is speculating on 1.3.

Chaos predators are a big problem for orks. You should be able to reach 46 pop before preds arrive though.

I think they just wanted to please the majority (i.e SM/CSM) by nerfing orks into oblivion.

[Crunk]

For starters, try out the tankbustin Kit ont he Big Mek.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

I think they just wanted to please the majority (i.e SM/CSM) by nerfing orks into oblivion.

No offence, but swap Orks with Eldar and you sound like a 1.1 whiner.

Orks aren't being nerfed to oblivion, they're getting a buff to what is already one of the most powerful units in the game (nob leader) and getting a MASSIVE buff through fixed mob bonus.

But by all means, continue with the "OMG THEY'RE NERFING OUR TRAKKS/SEER COUNCIL, AND PUTTING BACK ROKKITS/ENTANGLE, HOW WILL WE WIN?"

[[Vertigo]]

I think N0z3 sumed up my thoughts on this thread.

[mercy]

lets not get emotional here guys :noball: let them do whatever they wanna do then deal with it or find a way around it to me dow is more about strad then anything elseif you can outplay the guy you win :santa:

[Vertigo]

...and getting a MASSIVE buff through fixed mob bonus.

Wait a minute, did I miss something in the patch notes?

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Theres a second thread in DoWGD, and in that they confirmed mob bonus is back.

[.42.]

Yes Totmacher from Relic said that mob bonus was fixed http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...2&page=4&pp=15

So try a big squad of tankbusters and they should be immune to morale.

[jeantend]

about pred i dont know if you shows the replays but

first replay shows orks has double more economie, but cant get the choas preds ; the pred with his lame economie can go 3rd age and the orks cant win...

the second replay show how an ork 3rd age cant get a chaos 2nd age with his predators...

[psychodil]

Well my thoughts have changed now I know the mob bonus will be fixed. Some of the nerfs are still a bit unnecessary though. I agree the mob bonus is a big buff though.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Well my thoughts have changed now I know the mob bonus will be fixed. Some of the nerfs are still a bit unnecessary though. I agree the mob bonus is a big buff though.

Thanks psycho. I appreciate that unlike a lot of people you're capable of changing your mind

[Question]

If an ork player cannot get at least 12 rokkits on the field by the time chaos preds appear,there is something terribly wrong with the situation.

[Brian]

It should be easier now to kill preds imo because cultists with nade launchers used to do suicide runs on my rokkit boyz, I got the cults but not after a frenzied volley or two.. :angel:

Sorecer is still the same but he is cool so leave him alone :monkey:

and are nob leaders will have claws that work hopefully :2cents:

[Aron_DeTomado]

the pred with his lame economie can go 3rd age and the orks cant win...

I'm not getting this. Are you saying that the Chaos player is advancing to tier 3?

[Chris]

the pred with his lame economie can go 3rd age and the orks cant win...

the second replay show how an ork 3rd age cant get a chaos 2nd age with his predators...

Yes, the chaos economy is lame. It's utterly lame because it's the worst economy in the game. Orks on the other hand have the second most powerful economy in the game which pisses all over chaos and space marine economy.

If you are trying to suggest that Ork tier 3 with warboss, megablaster, mad doks, nob squads and killa kans cannot beat a tier 2 chaos player JUST because of predator tanks I don't think you will be very successful in convincing people.

[Athemeus]

Orks and nerfs...you should have faith that Relic balancing team is actually doing just that and making sure everything is balanced with this patch. It's easy to feel afraid that someone might be neglected/non-competitive, but they're taking a lot of time and effort to make sure that is not the case.

Preds *do* work very well against Orks. But I would think that orks worry more about Dreds? Either way, the key is to mix up your rokkits between your troops and your wartrakks. Try distributing rokkits amongst multiple squads. Makes it harder for the enemy to target the offending launchers

[jeantend]

yes in first replay his pred get lasers

[Crunk]

Irnonically enough, I think that that the Orks have the biggest vulnerability to Mech (as you are asking about), however, only if you are unprepared. When prepared, i thinkn that Orks have the strongest anti-vehicle support in the following:

1) Big Mek gets 2 anti tank abilities for 1 upgrade
2) Sluggas and shootas get the fastest rockets (1.2 only)
3) they have an anti mech unit in the Tankbusta. He holds 6 rockets, does extra vehicle damage in melee (so im told), and can research an anti tank weapon, ths bombs.

So, if u suspect your opponent is going mech, be prepared. And dont forget your heavy walker, the Killa Kan.

[jeantend]

If you are trying to suggest that Ork tier 3 with warboss, megablaster, mad doks, nob squads and killa kans cannot beat a tier 2 chaos player JUST because of predator tanks I don't think you will be very successful in convincing people.

look second replay

[DukeRustfield]

If an ork player cannot get at least 12 rokkits on the field by the time chaos preds appear,there is something terribly wrong with the situation.

Yes, that something wrong would be that it's stupid to try and put rokitts on Sluggas/Shootas when you are facing F2 nade cultists and CSM who will make that all a tremendous waste of resources when they kill those units in a few seconds. That alone would lose you the game.

People who don't play Orks always suggest mass Ork heavy weapons, not realizing they have to be placed on 175 health, light infantry units.

[psychodil]

Even with 12 rockets, it would take roughly 20 seconds of uninterupted fire to take down that 1 predator. Which is gonna be difficult with a sorceror around breaking their morale and wiping a few squads out with his spells.

Predators are a bit overpowered at tier 2, but it doesnt show up unless chaos can compete at tier 1 well enough to reach vehicles before 10 mins.

Its difficult for orks as all pretty much all our antitank units can be countered by the sorceror. When I see preds now I try and take out generators, as even though they have a slow build time, they can be built faster than they can be destroyed. (similar to trakks for CSM/SM).

[Chaz]

There are some replays in the Battle Archives that may help you formulate a strategy against Preds.

They are powerful as they are the only vehicle Chaos really have (I do not count that multi-legged waste of space), and I can certainly see how it could even seem over-powered when being faced with a Pred and a CS. Still, they are not unstoppable by any means. Your best bet is WarTraks with rokkits and a BM; a tankbusta squad set to ranged fire with six rokkit launchers (You do upgrade these things at the gun pile right?) and their extra bomb can do some damage as well. You are of course going to suffer losses, but you're Ork, you expect losses. If you're using traks I'd recommend trying to rush past the tank to take out power generators and if at all possible the machine pit before even bothering to engage the tank itself. Better to nip the problem at the source first, and if he rushed to the preds it's highly unlikely he's got much else.

Also, this has worked with my friends, but we play team games mostly so I'm not sure how effective it is in a 1vs1 scenario. If your opponent seems overzealous, setup an area with rokkit banners (five or so) and lead the tank there with your traks. The added firepower will shred the thing rather quickly. It's not a cheap solution, I know, but it's a solution.

[Chris]

Their anti-tank infantry might not be the most reliable but it's the cheapest and cheap units + uber economy = spam 4tw.

The only time I've seen orks struggle with vehicles is when they apply little/no pressure and are unprepared. I can understand a SM/CSM player being unprepared for an ork attack, but not the other way around. If the chaos player is teching, it should be a no brainer as to what he's teching to.

Orks should not struggle with vehicles. Peroid. If you apply 1.3 nerfs to current ork strategy then I'd concede that orks have a justified reason to be complaining... but this is why orks are going to have the change their strategy.

[Brian]

Well it depends chris, if the orther player gets through tier one relitivly intact vechiles are a major pain for orks, but if the opposing player is hit hard enough eco wise or troop wise then an ork player can manage vechiles easily, but all things fair orks do have a bit of a disadvantage vs vechiles but its not a horrible one imo.

Hence why playing eldar is even more of a bitch with orks cause even falcons with starcannons can be annoying.

[Chris]

Falcons with starcannons and missile vypers are a pain for pretty much everyone. Oh wait except eldar. =\

[Cpt.Tycho]

the key to any ork victory are-lots of infantry,2 nobs squads with attached heroes,2 or 4 tankbustas with max. upgrated rokkit launchas,killa kans(mix them with infantry-Meat shield),use squig(he wil draw enemy fire),maybe storm boyz(if u want),2 looted tanks(bombard enemy lines) and wartracks as support with they upgrates they are really dangerous in large upgrates!!

[psychodil]

Well once both are producing vehicles its gonna be a no-brainer who is likely to win.

Trukks + trakks vs Preds and Defilers

Orks will need much more AV troops if this is the case as the chaos vehicles have far more HP and a better armour type. Its hard to get any rockets to hit when all your troops are demoralised by sorceror spam though

[santiago4ever]

chaos is vulnerable while teching.

mass boyz pwns mass CSMs.

early trukks + BM teleporting in with boyz squad pwns anything chaos has at the time it comes out (1.2 not 1.3)

If I actually make it to getting preds and sorc out I bloody well deserve enough of an advantage to take back the ground I lost in tier 1. Pred is tough but not uncounterable. and mass rokkits shits all over the sorc.

[psychodil]

" and mass rokkits shits all over the sorc"

So you should spend hundred and hundreds of req and power to counter a 150/50 hero? And use what on the preds?

Mass rockets counters the megablaster, and everyone knows that is overpowered.

[santiago4ever]

yes and those rokkits really sucks against the pred right?

If it doesnt work then try it with mad docs as well, they will be fixed post-patch to actually heal even those not in it's squad. Your lucky that there is 1 weapon that is effective against both the things chaos has to use against orks.

We can play theorycraft all day long but preds aren't uncounterable. The top orks beats horrortech and fast pred tech 9/10 games.

[psychodil]

I dont think the preds are uncounterable, but the sorceror definately is for his cost and his 20 second build time.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Now you know why we all hate the Big Mek.

[psychodil]

Sorceror build time = 20 seconds
Big Mek build time = 47 seconds.

Bit of a difference wouldnt you say? Besides big mek has had his build time addressed, as well as trakks. Sorceror build looks to be unchanged, as well as landspeeder and viper buildtimes, that are very similar to trakks.

[White_Pointer]

as well as landspeeder and viper buildtimes, that are very similar to trakks

They are both argueably better than traks too, because they move faster and can jump twice. The only advantage traks had was the speed they came out...after 1.3 that advantage will be gone.

White_Pointer

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Sorceror build time = 20 seconds
Big Mek build time = 47 seconds.

Bit of a difference wouldnt you say? Besides big mek has had his build time addressed, as well as trakks. Sorceror build looks to be unchanged, as well as landspeeder and viper buildtimes, that are very similar to trakks.

The cost is more important than the build time in terms of hero spammability, and the BM is still ridiculously cheap for what he does.

They are both argueably better than traks too, because they move faster and can jump twice. The only advantage traks had was the speed they came out...after 1.3 that advantage will be gone.

Also have more survivability than the Vyper, and can upgrade their guns unlike the LS.

[Brian]

Since when did ls need a gun change, the ls is a beast when it comes to manouverbilty and anti infrantry, they can be a right bitch if used well

And the bm imo is so good at what he does because the ork race is supposed to be the cc race though in 1.2 they were more the vechile rush army but anyhow :cranky:

In 1.3 bm should suit is purpose very well.

[Boomstar]

Didn't read the whole read so sorry if this was said:Big mek + teleport + Tankbuster kit + tankbusta squad = dead pred.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Since when did ls need a gun change, the ls is a beast when it comes to manouverbilty and anti infrantry, they can be a right bitch if used well

Yes they can. But almost any vehicle will tear them up in short order. Wartrakks can get their rokkit launchas and actually retaliate to some degree. While incidentally sacrificing minimal anti-infantry capability.

[testthewest]

I remember one nice replay, where the orc finally countered the Preds with a mix of infantry rockits and Killa Kans. Those killa kans often reached those preds (even tho I wouldnt have believed it before I saw it), or kept them on the move and thereby not so much focusing on the rockit infantry. As soon as the battle gets large enough, the Chaos player will have a hard time watching all those Killa kans.