Well, to be honest I can't be bothered setting up a forum on my own site to discuss this. Here'll do. :talk:
Go have a look at www.winterdyne.co.uk/warhound/
Well, to be honest I can't be bothered setting up a forum on my own site to discuss this. Here'll do. :talk:
Go have a look at www.winterdyne.co.uk/warhound/
hah! i new it could fit in game! nice idea that would be an awesome mod if it happens
but you'd have to make titans for other sides for balance any way, nice
Yeah, I'll be doing Mars Pattern, Revenants and Stomper Gargants.
When Winter Assault comes out I hope the lineup should be:
Marines- Mars Pattern loyalist Warhound
Guard- Lucius Pattern Warhound
Ork- Stomper Gargants
Chaos- Mars Pattern traitor Warhound
I think these should balance up pretty well.
Warhounds are all much the same - all rounders
The revanants have jump jets and stealth. 'Nuff said.
Stompers should be hard as nails but slow as snails.
The size you chose may be a bit small.
Forgeworld's Warhound is 250 mm high, whereas the Space Marines are 28mm. So the Warhound should be 9 times as tall as a marine.
It seem you made it a little smaller in your test picture.
Nice model, by the way.
FW's is 250? Lol... the only thing I had to scale it were the crew in the head... Taking 2m to 28mm mine would only be 160-odd, depending on pose.
Ah well, GW were never consistent with scale anyway. As long as it 'looks right'.
Glad you like the model... Not sure if it's worth scaling it up?
The mockup makes it look a bit smaller than it is... I have a size comparison with an 8-foot tall marine and he comes to just level with the bottom of the lower leg fairing.
I didn't put it on the site cos my marine model is crap and nearly as many polys as the titan.
I love the map, any chance to download it yet?
beside this I can only agree it's to small on the pic.
I would make it even a little more highpoly and less smooth. Meaning you can camfer the edges but don't make it smooth.
Hope the texture will be cool.
It should look better when textured.
I do a lot of surface chopping when UV mapping, so a lot of the edges on the carapace will appear sharper once this is done.
Does anyone know whether the engine needs the model pre-stripping or whether stripping is done at import?
stripping? Haven't hear about that... lol
you can easiely spend 3000-4000 polys for such a model..
STOMP STOMP STOMP!!!The revanants have jump jets and stealth.
"Did you hear that? Right infront of us..."
"Yeah, can't see anything there tho..."
A titan's mod would certainly be welcome for us who have modded massive maps where space is a right! hehe..
However, titans are in a league all their own - all regular infantry/vehicles are a purile joke compared to one weapon volley from a titan. SuperHeavy Imperial Guard tanks (ie. StormShadow, ShadowSword, etc etc would be beyond amazing!).
just create an new race without the land raider and add the warhound as their super unit, that should work.
The Warhound would also need to cost like 3x as much as the Squiggoth when you stop to consider how powerful it is.
I'm a Deviant?
I'm trying to tone down Titans a bit to make them playable.
Infantry SHOULD be able to take down a weakend (shieldless) titan with proper planning (lots of heavy weapons squads in heavy cover, luring the titan into a crossfire). The map is designed to make this slightly easier.
Depending on the weapons fit, the performance of the titan should change. For example, there are 4 Warhound weapons.
Vulcan Mega Bolter (God I hate this name) [VMB]
Turbo Laser Battery [TLB]
Plasma Blastgun [PBG]
Inferno Cannon [INF]
A Titan fits two, one in each arm, with 45 degree arcs of fire to the front. There will be no 'torso twist' other than as part of the walk animation.
Standard fits for Imperial and Chaos Titans are:
Lucius Pattern, Wolf Class = L:TLB, R:PBG
Lucius Pattern, Jackal Class = L:INF, R:VMB
Mars Pattern = L:VMB, R:PBG
With the other weapons available as upgrades for either arm (so the starting class is a convenience).
The weapons should fit into fixed roles to make weapon selection a useful choice. Bear in mind that upgrading can only be done once.
Weapon roles will be as follows:
VMB: Very rapid fire. Effective vs. Infantry and Light vehicles.
TLB: Medium-slow firing. Effective vs. Vehicles and Buildings.
INF: Big Flamer. Ineffective vs. Vehicles and Buildings. High morale damage.
PBG: Very slow. Very effective vs. Vehicles and Buildings.
I'm still considering ideas on how to get void shields to work - these should be ineffective against close combat attacks...
'Stripping' is the process of taking the triangle that make a model and arranging them into a series of continuous 'strips' rather than a long list. For each additional triangle in a strip you only need to send 1 vertex to the graphics card. This basically makes things faster to transform and render in hardware. I'm an ex-coder and was wondering.
The Ryza-pattern Plasma blastgun I've done would look cool on a Baneblade chassis... Probably something to do after Winter Assault.
Last edited by Winterdyne; 25th May 05 at 2:37 AM. Reason: StormBlade
"I'm still considering ideas on how to get void shields to work - these should be ineffective against close combat attacks..."
modifier ranged attack / multiplier / value 0.500
Can you give it a special ability to step on enemy units?
By the manner of their death we shall know them
No... stepping on units would be tricky... Kicking things might work... I dunno, we'd have to see how it looks.
Still need volunteers to help with this ;-)
hey thud that could be a class strategical game. The ground units may be cannon fodder but they can still take sp's and relics etc. So the titans have to look out for the grunts in s**t while they take new ground.Originally Posted by thudmeizer
I think we need a preliminary list of titans for each faction. I know IG have lots (especially tanks). BaneBlade is already in the expansion so that leaves the StormBlade, StormSword, ShadowSword, Capitol Imperialis, Leviathan and, of course, Warhound. Muhahah.. I think after all this the universe will be mighty bit of nothing after the dust settles <diabolical laugh!>
For the time being, each faction will get a Titan.
IG & SM get the warhound, as do chaos (the lucius will do as a placeholder for all of these till I get the Mars pattern done - I'm still working on the default dirtmap for the lucius...)
Orks will get something slower and a bit harder to kill in gargant form. The Eldar will get the Revanant. Fast, but not modifiable.
Epic40k has actually said what I'm after here, partly, anyway.
The key to getting large, super-powerful units like Titans to balance is to design maps accordingly. You can't have wide, open battlefields, or the infantry and light vehicles get ripped apart. Instead, the maps should be designed so that balanced forces are required - some areas are just inaccessible to large vehicles.
As far as the IG super heavy tanks are concerned, I only mentioned the Stormblade cos I've done the plasma gun...
Edit: The Capitol Imperialis and Leviathan might be a bit too big... they are larger than warhound, and the turning radius will be massive (length) making them difficult to use...
For those that are interested, a WIP shot has been uploaded to the site at:
Don't worry about maps.. thats decent enough. Its the massive titan models to be done and to balance them not only against other titans but the regular infantry/vehicles which should at least stand some sort of chance although in large armies.
I would think a Warhound would have 3x the hitpoints and firepower as a Squiggoth **BUT** be sooooooooo frick'n slow and cumbersome it would make the Squiggoth look like a speed demon! The point being, regular infantry/vehicle would be amazingly agile around a titan BUT be extremely weak vs its firepower/hitpoints and perhaps range. All would be good balancers. Titans MUST be god-like compared to regular ubers (BloodThirster, Avatar, Squiggoth, and LandRaider - add BaneBlade for expansion too).
I don't necessarily agree. Warhounds are scout titans. They have a certain reputation for speed (as far as titans go) and so shouldn't be too slow - at least, not in a straight line. I would certainly have them outrunning foot troops with ease.
Their limitations will come from maneuverability for the most part - there will be places they just won't fit, and they'll turn slowly - this will allow 'wolf-packing' tactics from infantry, which fit the feel of the game.
I've been working on a model myself. I like your skinning alot By the way.
Yes but how to balance something near god-like when everything else 5x smaller is poultry in comparison? I guess the WarHound would be a little faster, not as armed or armoured. Others might be better off hughly armed and armoured BUT slow and hard to turn/maneuver in tight quarters. We must try to achieve balance with such incredibly important units!!
I put this little nifty jpg together to show everyone how many Titans are out there. Granted, I may have missed some or included some vehicles that may not qualify as being "titan-ish". Currently, there are Chaos, Eldar, Imperial Guard, Ork, and Tyranid Titans.. other races I have seen no Titans.
Last edited by thudmeizer; 26th May 05 at 9:47 PM.
That's a good jpg... however I'll be using the new forgeworld style revanant... go look at www.forgeworld.co.uk... its sooooo much nicer.
I never liked the chaos 'silly weapons' like the cannon, plague towers etc. etc... you won't be seeing those in my mod... just good old fashioned traitor titans and tanks.
Nato, some advice:
Ball joint the hips and ignore the hip-hydraulics. You'll go mad trying to animate it otherwise. You're using the Golden Demon winner for reference, by the look of the 4 exhaust stacks on the back of the centre carapace... Also look at www.netepic.org - there's a nice review of an epic scale warhound with photos of it in pieces - that was really helpful to me. It's looking good so far tho.
I've never quite understood why I've never seen anyone want to do a Knight rather than a titan, would be a lot easier to fit in (Knights = about 30-50% taller than a real squiggoth, Warhound = about 100% taller than a Knight, back when I played epic at least, I think dow squiggoths are probably runts to some extent, since they dont y'know, carry small battle fortresses on there backs )
The use of the word "Stomper" up there is promising (Stompers being the closest ork unit to the knights, though far older) Although I would by no stretch of the word call a stomper a gargant ?
(I'm rather old school, if it wasn't obvious already )
Anywho, props for trying
So overall this mod encompasses Titans for the 5 armies with a few maps? do also you plan on handing each army a Titan killer or two?
Oh yeah looks aboslutely awesome cant wait
hey winterdyne do you need some testers?
and first get the mod itself without an new model and use an resized dread for it untill you get the warhound ingame.
Anyone want to help with building this as a mod? - I'm a half-decent modeller but haven't a clue with the DOW modding side... yet.
As far as content - A small titan for each is all.
Titan killers are actually harder to balance... Space Marines don't exactly get many units designed to take titans on head on, so you'd have to give the marines more mobile units (such as an airlifting thunderhawk or attack bikes)
For now, just the titans I think
For those interested, I uploaded work so far on the skin for the warhound...
Do you make him army paintable?
Hope so... if you like I tell you how to give him a costum camouflage paint...
and i allready told you that i help..
Winterdyne - what are your Titans are you planning? Warhound for IG.. any other IG titans and what about the other 3 factions mentioned in my gallery shot?
Btw, you know about this past DoW project: Epic40k ? This unfortunately was canned but still up it seems.
"Scout Titan" is an oxymoron.
Oh what fun.. can't wait.
Revised War40k Titans List:
My Titan picks for each faction:
Reaver (instead of IG original) or Cannon
Revenant and Scorpion (very cool heavy-tank!!)
Shadowsword, Stormblade, Stormsword, and Warhound
Battlewagon (would be absolutely hilarious to see all the Orks on that!!) and Gargant
Hierophant (all else pales in comparison to this monstrosity!!!)
Okay the list I'm working to at the moment is:
IG: Lucius Warhound
SM: Mars Warhound
CM: Mars Warhound (traitor)
ORK: Gargant (small)
No tanks to add yet. Maybe later, in which case the stormsword and shadowsword variants will be upgrades for the baneblade.
To be honest, rather than adding more super heavy units to take on titans, I'd probably look at adding more fast moving units - like marine bikes, eldar jetbikes and ork bikes. Perhaps IG bikes too...
Tyranid stuff is really down to the guys running the tyranid mod. If they want me to do a hierophant, I'll give it a go once I've done the basic titans for the mod.
Yes, I looked at epic legions, but it's too large scale. You end up with massive rendering problems from trying to draw too much stuff. You need big field of view to control large formations - it just gets messy.
I'm designing the titans to be army-paintable, but I'm also going to work on a number of custom skins.
Simple is sweet! Sticking with 5 models [with chaos/SM/IG being fairly similar in alot of ways] would mean that the alpha-beta mod's wouldn't take that long to get out. The usual delays in animation, balancing ... Actually I don't care if it stands there like a statue and blows away anything that comes into range automatically
I have been rather keen on lots of mod's [and still am] to come out, but this one's gotta be the icing on the cake.
An idea on void shields.. what about it automatically 'healing' itself instead either steadily up to full.. or... [no idea if it's scriptable!]..
20,000 - 18,000 hp's heals to 20,000
18,000 - 16,000 hp's heals to 18,000
16,000 and less - no healing?
Again, this 'may' be a little difficult to do, would it possible for the titan to 'loose' weapons if it were too damaged? Then you might have to 'upgrade it' to resupply it's weapons? [representing battle damage]
Void shields will be a total pain to script.
The way I'd like them to work is like this:
Void Shields will work in 1 second cycles.
It can absorb a certain amount of damage before being marked as overloaded.
In can absorb a certain amount more damage before burning out.
Overloaded shields remain up till the end of the second, when the best condition not-overloaded shield comes online.
Any damage taken by the titan in the period that shields are down goes straight to its armour, which is NOT repairable - unless we add a Titan Engineer tech priest / Titan bonesinger / Ork Gargant Mek later on.
All non-burnt out shields regenerate themselves slowly.
This means that a titan will take some damage as soon as its shields are down, but the longer it is in a heavy fight the more vulnerable it becomes, allowing harrying units to kill them, albeit slowly.
and close combat goes straight through as well...
I like the stomping idea, perhaps you could give it the drop pod's ability to send infantry flying each time a foot comes down.
As far as speed, I recall reading (never played EPIC, so not certain) that titans were actually quite fast, and had to be careful not to leave the rest of their forces behind, as not even a titan can take on an entire army all by itself. Maybe you EPIC fans can set me straight.
Scale-wise, it sounds like this warhound ought to be about 56 meters (or metres if you prefer) high.
Thud: are those pics shots of your models? A lot of those look like 40k scale, rather than epic scale. I didn't realize they made so many of those in 40k scale. Seen Baneblade and exocrine, and also warhouds, and I've seen one of the Eldar Super-Heavy tanks, but not one of the ones pictured here. Anyway, cool pics!
Edit: Sorry, I did my math wrong. I didn't really mean 54 meters, I meant nine times taller than a marine, which last time I checked meant 2 meters, not 6. Sorry. 6 feet ~ 2 meters, then I multiplied by 6 instead of 2. So more like 18 meters. Which is in the ballpark.
Last edited by Adoni-Zedek; 2nd Jun 05 at 10:05 PM.
Warhound according to fluff are around 11 meters in height.
According to scale from Forgeworld (bear in mind that GW does NOT use a standard fixed 'scale') taking 1inch to 2m it works out at just shy of 20m in height.
I don't know how tall the epic scale resin model is so can't say based on epic scale.
it's about 4 cm, while a marine is 5 mm. So it's 8 time higher, bringing it to a high of about 16 Meters.
Hmm.. why so many WarHound variants where their practically the same (ie. SM/Chaos Predator)? Thought you might add something unique to each one. Further, SM have a Titan? Thought they are never really used as they don't believe in them? I can understand IG (which should have more titans) and I gather making the Tyranid titan will be complex as hell (but damn would be incredible!!).
I'm just looking at the itenary and WarHound seems to be dupped too much. Yes its easier as it requires less modding but on the other hand it will add more distinction if each faction has something unique to offer.
I'm starting to do a city map which should fit to the new titans
-= Founder of Community Map Packs =-
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I agree the addition of titans to the SM is a bit out of character - and yes, this is purely to make it easier to balance.
Rigging the tyranid titan is actually easier - organic smooth joints are easier to texture for animation than hydraulics, which are a sod.
As far as map design is concerned - titans need a 10m x 10m square to turn in, and a 10m wide path to go down.
<EDIT>: I'd probably go with larger - 12 x 12 meters at least.
Better to err on the side of caution now, and add debris and stuff to tighten up gaps later. </EDIT>
They WILL overpower pretty much anything in a straight fight, so limit their manueverability with the map. :-)
I am thinking about introducing a new resource type for all races (relic style) with this mod - Titan Wrecks. These will be similar to relics, but apply only to requisitioning titans. What are peoples opinions on this?
Last edited by Winterdyne; 28th May 05 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Titan footprint
New resource seems to be ok, could solve balance problems.
Bier en tieten
If you use the walker turn behaivior you can choose the turn radius, when it moves, but standing it will turn on the place it stands, which is important.
For maps, I would assume you are using a really small blueprint size. your model can be bigger, the effect is that some troops can run thru its borders, but it doesn't matter so much. I would say a blueprint size of 3x3 m works best, but 4x4 should work too...
For the mod: You defently need to add it as a race, or it won't work as multmod. Maybe you go for a titan legion. Having imperial guard and maybe a Spacemarine chapter.
My personal opinion would be: Take your favorit imperial guard army... infantry and view tanks and make it challenge mod. So, having just a view units, but one mighty.
If you going to add titans to every race you need to complitly rebuild all races... balancing will take ages..
What do you think about it?
Could I get away with creating 'copy' races with the additional titan units added to the tech trees?
Obviously these would only work on maps where the appropriate resource is (Titan wrecks).
Also there is a new site update at
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