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Other than The Emperor's Champion which is still viable via Chapter Approved, a custom chapter has NO (read 0) access to special characters.
Only Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, and Raven Guard (per 4th Ed Codex) to can choose special characters. End of fucking list.
Thoughts, questions, comments?
You never truly know someone...
Until you fight them.
#2
I just don't see this as a disadvantage, certainly not a MAJOR one..HQs are there to support, not to be one-man armies.
#3
i thought everyone knew this? its pretty obvious aint it?
#4
With the new life given to regular Space Marine HQs, i don't believe we'll be seeing as many special characters anyway. Sure, they're fun, but they're nowhere near essential (i know you're not saying they're essential).
Is anyone else disappointed by this?
#5
Wait, I don't think you can use Emp's Champ with generic Sm chapters...
Because the Company Champion replaced that role.
500 Days...
#6
This comes down to what a special character is. In my opinion, a special character is defined by his (or her) backstory and cool model. The rules just allow it to be used in the game.
So, if I make my custom Marine chapter, The Marines of the Ever Pungent Cheese, and give it appropriate traits then there is no way I should be using Marneus Calgar or Dante. It would make no more sense to use them than it would to use Eldrad Ulthran.
If you make up your own character with his own model and fluff then you have your custom special character for your custom marines chapter. I would advise making up two sets of rules for him. One with special rules and another from the codex just in case your opponent won't let you use the special rules.
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Actually this isn't true you can always make your own and use the rules for an existing special character
as long as you model all of the necessary wargear and the person your playing against agrees to let you use it
you can also make up your own characters as long as their balanced and fair and your opponent doesn't care
You can do anything as long as your oponent lets you, that doesnt make it legal....
#9
That was done intentionally to encourage more players to use the generic Codex list and not to go crazy by overloading traits. Consider it an extra Minor Drawback that is always taken. Seems like a good trade-off to me. I rarely use traits anyway.
EDIT:
You don't necesarily have to be playing Ultramarines per se, to use their special characters. You just have to use their rule-set. You could just as easily play any other chapter, and as long as you're using the basic Ultramarine straight-codex list, then you have access to their special characters.
#10
... and that means no traits.
WH40K is a game-systen where the designers realised that over-powerful characters are a bad thing. Why they included over-powered special characters is a mystery to me. It encourages the an attitude in players that is the opposite of what they are trying to achieve.
They would have done better by using the space in the codexes that have special rules to write more about the characters themselves.
Since you can't use special characters without your opponent's permission, all you have to do to negate this perceived disadvantage is to deny your opponent the right to use them himself.
#11
The new Sm codex doesn't make you get permission...Since you can't use special characters without your opponent's permission...
Anyways will someone answer my question? (it's kinda off topic, but if I'm right then trait chapters have NO special characters.)
#12
No, but apparently the rulebook does.The new Sm codex doesn't make you get permission...
#13
Not to argue with you or anything...
But isn't that for the older rule books that actually say "you need permission"
???
#14
I'll check again when I get my rulebook back but if it's in the rulebook then it will be that way for the whole lifetime of 4th edition unless GW explicitly state otherwise.
#15
I think we just had this discussion like, 2 days ago. Search and see if you can find it.
Anyway, custom trait chapters don't get special characters, Dante. You are correct. Certain chapters DO get special characters though, like the Imperial Fists and the Raven Guard. I'm very sure that others will get characters in due time. It's only a question of when.
First of all, thanks for all the replies. The reason I brought this up is some people think the trait system is too uber, and some think it is just lame. Personally, I like it. I don't want to play Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Space Pups, or any other prefabed chapter. Some people like MRE's (Marines Ready to Eat) and that's all cool, I'm just the kind of person who will usually take something custom over something stock.
Now a couple of comments from my peanut gallery...
Nothing I said suggested that a Special Character is a one man army. They ARE just that, support, and two of the MAJOR disadvantages in the trait system are the ones that limit your fast attack and heavy support options.
The description of The Emperor's Champion states that nearly EVERY Space Marine Chapter has had an Emperor's Champion at one time or another. A Company Champion doesn't even come CLOSE to filling that role. Equivalently, they are nothing more than a Vet Sergeant with a Power Sword and a Combat Shield. Hell, I can tool up every Vet Sergeant in my army like that. Finally, nothing has been written in the SM Codex, any White Dwarf, or Chapter Approved that says you cannot use the Emperor's Champ anymore.
@Svedish: You sure about that bro? I'll do the happydance if that's the case but they way the codex words the description of the special characters makes it seems that only the designated chapter can select X character. "....can be used in Ultramarine/Raven Guard/Imp Fist army of at least xxxx points." It sounds logical and fair but I have this sinking feeling about it.
@cfoley: Page 52 under the heading SPECIAL CHARACTERS, end of the 4th paragraph...
"In some cases, with particularlly legendary and celebrated (or infamous and reviled) characters, they may only be used in battles where both players have agreed to their use beforehand."
Permission for special characters is not a broad ruling. Unless the codex specifically states permission must be gained you do not need permission. I know off the top of my head Abaddon needs permission as do some of the Eldar specials and it plainly states that in their respective codecies.
Good lord, look what you people have done to me... This was supposed to be a passive interest, now I'm a 40K crackhead.
#17
I'm pretty sure Sved i right.
As long as you adhere to say the Imperial fist rules EXACTLY, you can use Lysander EXACTLY.
And being a crackhead is the only way to be when dealing with 40k!
#18
That's exactly right Dante.
Basically, what you're doing is selecting a very specific RULESET to use. Once you select, say, the Imperial Fists ruleset, you have access to all special rules and special characters associated with it, particularly Captain Lysander and his Terminator Uber-ness.
In the entire history of Games Workshop and Warhammer 40,000, there has never been a rule to indicate that certain models must be painted certain ways. So, if you select Imperial Fist rules, you can paint them up as Blood Ravens and call them Blood Ravens and they will BE Blood Ravens, except they're actually Imperial Fists. That's actually what I'm doing right now...
That make sense?
#19
In that case, the debate last week came to the wrong conclusion. I really want my rulebook back.@cfoley: Page 52 under the heading SPECIAL CHARACTERS, end of the 4th paragraph...
"In some cases,
Phat, that's good news. To be honest I have a Terminator fetish. I only have one set now but eventually I want enough for 5 squads (3 elites and 2 command squads) but I don't want to rely on the luck of the dice -as much- to deploy them all. At the same time I don't want some jaggoff to look at my paint scheme and say "Those aren't Fists so you cant use Lysol..."
Since the Imperial Fists don't have their own codex (to my knowledge) I guess I am looking at a vanilla chapter with Captain Lysol as a HQ unit.... I noticed those prefabed chapter traits are optional.
Thanks for the help on that. :yippee:
#21
Hmm, I didn't think of it that way. I guess you COULD just use the vanilla Codex list and still use special characters. That's probably a better option considering that we both have the same plan to mass terminators for our armies, and the Imperial Fist traits are useless for that.
#22
I never throught of special characters as worth their ponts for the most part anyway..
Only characters like Kharn and Typhus have made up their points to me..
Seems more like the CSM characters are worth it...
I looked at the new Marine characters and went "meh". I perfer my standard chappie w/ retinue over most.
#23
I know what you mean. But the new Lysander rules with the uber terminator-ness is pretty hawt.
I usually use special characters just for fun. :yippee:
But yes, I would prefer a 200+ pt chaplain with DC to Dante...
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