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God Damnit. I suck. Help please.

  1. #1
    1337Dude
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    God Damnit. I suck. Help please.

    Out of all the RTS games I have played (Starcraft. Warcraft, RoN, Stronghold, ect), this one seems to make me feel quite overwhelmed. I have only had the game for a week now, but I have played it for endless hours that I have everything down. Such as my build order, my micro-management, and my strategy.

    The race that I basically have dedicated myself to, is the Ork. I love the feeling of overwhelming my enemy and such, and plus I love orcs in general. My friends who bought this game chose other races, mainly Chaos and Eldar. They became pretty good at the game very damn quickly (within a week or two).

    I can easily beat skirmish bots on Harder when I try, without too much of a problem. I haven't touched the campaign yet, because It doesn't include my favorite race, and it seemed much too easy. Instead, I spent all my hours of play into the skirmishing, preparing myself for online play. I came to these forums and read about several strategies and integrated them into my playstyle. Playing quick also became a task, because online - nobody waits for you to build up your army.

    Soon enough, I join my first online game here. Now, when I think back to when I first started playing SC and WC online, I lost only a bit at first, but became par with everyone else soon enough. So I thought the same would apply here. Hot damn, was I wrong.

    My first online game was against some guy playing as Eldar. I said hi,hf, gl, but he didn't reply. So, I build my banner, my hut, my mek, my shooters, my sluggas (For collecting resources), ect.
    I have about half of the map's points, while he most likely had the rest. I really had no idea what would be my strategy, because I saw his builder unit, noticed he was eldar, and realized that in a few minutes Warp Spiders would be runnin this show. I decided to charge him just to see what was going on. As I would have guessed, Warp Spiders. His two squads mowed down my units before I could do anything at all. *Why exactly do the Eldar have a unit basically designed to win against the entire Ork race?* Of course he rushed in with his unique unit and many more troops and kicked me while I was down, so he could obtain victory.

    My second online game was against a guy who claimed he never played a game online, and this was his first online game yet. His profile pointed towards it, but yet all he had to do was simply create a new profile if he wasn't what he said he was. He was space marines, so knowing this time I atleast had a chance, I created a pretty good army while teching extremely fast. I managed to pull off 4 squads of Shoota boyz set to Assault, and a big mek, to greet him very early in the game. Holy freaking crap. He had 4 squads of space marines, fully equiped, along with his commander. In fact, he was on his way to greet me instead. Soon enough a Dreadnought joined him. The morale got to my troops first, and he slaughtered them as I retreated. He of course assaulted my base.


    What am I doing wrong? I have tryed letting them come to me, I have tryed getting resources ASAP while assembling a HUGE army, nearly everything.

    So here I am, 20 games later, no victories since I began. What am I doing wrong? I feel more like blaming the Orks instead of myself. I mostly find myself low on resources, mainly because I have no scout troops that do nothing more than go out and capture points. Anything else is needed for my bulk, because they are simply too expensive to send out and capture more points. How did Relic figure that Orks shouldn't get as much resources, even though they need every little bit of resources that they can get?


    Can anyone tell me if this is normal or something, losing this many times in a row? I can't find myself winning any games, or even coming close to it. I am becoming very frusterated. This seems to be the only game so far that has kicked my ass.

    :steam:

  2. #2
    A lot of people tend to spend their resources where they don't need them. Maybe your making one more banner then you should or a power gen that you don't use, or whatever.

    Show us a reply, or something. Also don't reinforce squads with ork outside of battle. Just get lots of small ones with nob leaders. They're heavy infantry so they'll give you something to tank with against warp spiders.

    It's either that or show one of us online in person what you do.

    EDIT: What is your build order exactly?


    and no losing 20 games straight isn't normal even for orks... it's scary.

  3. #3
    Moving to correct forum.

  4. #4
    It is rabbit if you get stuck vs eldar or a fast tec chaos 20 time's in a row.

    The orks are by far harder to play than the other race's since there whole early army is light troops and there are a lot of counter's best bet is to tec to NL and Mad doc's as fast as you can since FJ with NL is deadly since it allows you to get in to CC range with no dead orks in that squad.

    The main aim is to get NL and Mad doc's out as fast as you can since with out them 90% of the time the enemy will just plow you down.

    A good tip is to get BM and his teleport upgrade and put him with a maxed out slugga squad and get a Mad doc then if you have the Power and req add a NL when you see the enemy FJ BM squad and teleport them in you will rip most enemys apart.

  5. #5
    Member
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    i suggest you to post some replays inside the forum,so expert people will give you suggestions(strategy forums - subforum battle archive).
    Orks are actually very weak especially against Eldar, few expert players are now finding good strats to survive (strategy forums).
    You have choosen a difficult race to start your online experience, dont give up!
    You need also a teammate and play some 2v2 (better 3v3) to find your best feeling with the race, without the pressure and the short time of 1v1.
    Enjoy dow and this community!

    sorryforbadenglish
    “…Never ask a question to the Eldar, for he will give you three answers; all of which are true and horrifying to know…”

  6. #6
    1337Dude
    Guest
    FJ? Come on, go easy, I don't know all of the abreviations and such.

    Any ways, heres the basic build order I have been using

    ________

    2 Extra Gretchin Squads. Soon as each is made, reinforced completely.
    Take First GS and then create WBanner.
    Take second GS and create Boyz hut
    Take third GS and help with Boyz Hut
    Take First GS and build LP
    Create Shoota Boyz (2) and Big Mek
    Take second GS and build LP
    Take third GS and build Generator.
    Take first GS and build P o Guns
    -I continue to make more WBanners (About 5)
    Upgrade Choppy Research
    Upgrade 'Eavy Armor Research
    Upgrade More Dakka Research
    Upgrade Big Mek with Tankbustin Kit
    Upgrade Tougher Bosses Research

    -

    Thats not all in a particular order, I just happen to do whatever comes fastest. I usually lose or give up though by the time im researching stuff.

    I will try the More Squads - Nob Leaders tactic and see how that comes.

    I was wonderin - How many squads of what should I make for an early game attack, and what things should I upgrade?

    EDIT : Ah yes, thanks for the welcome. I will post some replays after a few more battles.

  7. #7
    Deen
    Guest
    I would suggest you look at a few ork replays in the Battle Archives section.
    You can chose a strategy you like and get better with it. Once you start getting wins, you can learn how the game works more (there is only so much you can learn if you're losing all the time) and develop your own playstyle and tricks.

  8. #8
    1337Dude
    Guest
    Hey Deen, I have watched a few of your replays (Mainly Rush with Shoota Squads) and you play pretty well. Thanks for the advice.

  9. #9
    Deen
    Guest
    Thanks

    Okay,
    1st, 1 extra gretching is all you need. When reinforced they build faster, so don't use two squads to build the same thing.

    Then, you're making too many banners and not using them all, and you're getting too many upgrades, too little troops.

    You need 3-5 squads for an early attack.

    Also, read this, it will get you started:
    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=63426

  10. #10
    as many people have pointed out, put up some replays to we can see how you play and your various desisions in various situations.


    Edit: by the way FJ stands for Fightin' juice Mad doc power

  11. #11
    Dude u shouldnt care .This is a game and it is meant 4 fun so as long as u are having it all is k......Listen 2 the guys above me and all will be k...I also like helping newbies because i know that in a few weeks they will be whooping my butt........so above are some good tacs folow them and try playing vs newbies /below 40 perc win ratio/to practise.......oh u can skip shootas cause they are USELESS

  12. #12
    Counts as Mephiston Fixer's Avatar
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    Couple of things you may find useful: (and I wish i had known when i had started playing)

    Right click the re-enforcement button or a special weapon in the upgrade window. This will 'overwatch' this, so the unit will automatically upgrade to that when resource is available without need for you to click and add to the queue. Handy with Orks since they have massive squad numbers.

    Stances: Sometimes it's better for your units to be shooting or assaulting. Shoota boyz for example, are pretty good in combat as well. If they're getting minced by ranged fire such as WS or heavy bolters, you can make a charge by selecting charge attack button and clicking the enemy unit.

    Your Big Mek may have trouble catching that damned Farseer, so it may be better for him to switch to ranged stance (button on the right, fist that you can change to a gun) So you don't have to keep microing him to attack and shoot the farseer when she gets out of combat range so you're still doing damage. Switch the stance back to combat when you want to start chopping again or use the charge move.

    If you charge after her normally after combat you'll change to combat mode and wont be able to hit her, running after her with a power claw raised doing no damage.
    I HAS WRITTEN A BOOK!
    As soon as the cover artist, proof reader and everything else I rely on other people to do is done, I'll let you know.

  13. #13
    Spectre01
    Guest
    There are a few things wrong with that build order IMO. Fist, 2 shoota boy squads isn't enough, and I'm assuming they are fully maxed squads, but even then, they can still be taken down but an SM tac squad, and that's without heavy bolters. You are also wasting too much money on upgrades which you should spend towards making more troops.

  14. #14
    Stan13
    Guest
    There is a site, www.dowsanctuary.com, where you can download alot of replays of good players. I suggest you check it out.

  15. #15
    Elferx
    Guest
    DoW is a rather unique game unlike SC & WC.. it requires much more tatic & wits to win rather then using a HUGE army & overpower the enemy ( like power overwhelming )

    DoW require much more thinking & strategy.... For me i play Eldar & specific counters & micro are extremely improtant... its not abt building strong arm but a versatile one..

  16. #16
    Esrhan
    Guest
    DoW require much more thinking & strategy.... For me i play Eldar & specific counters & micro are extremely improtant... its not abt building strong arm but a versatile one..
    In other words spamming the right aspect warrior.

    For you, 1337Dude, I would suggest trying something else than 1vs1 games all the time. If you make a mistake in a 1vs1 game the slippery slope effect comes into play strongly but in bigger games you still have a chance to fight back, as long as your teammates are reasonable folk.

  17. #17
    1. Teamgames and Quickstart are where your Orks have a chance to shine. Not kick ass, mind you, but become at least playable. When playing team, always tag along with a ranged ally.

    2. 1v1 is where you concentrate on perfecting small squad tactics and go in prepared to lose. This version's Orks will not win automatch, get used to it. Just pretend you're playing against a hypothetical AI set to "Deep Blue Insane."

    3. Do not switch to Eldar or Chaos or SM. There's no fun in it even when you win. ChopChopChop >>>>>>>>>>>> Stand there and shoot redcoat-style, in terms of fun.

    4. If you find in 1v1, an Eldar player has already won (building Wraithlords while you're trapped in your base by 50 Warp Spiders) but is just playing with you not finishing you off, give him a big green F U and then quit. Don't sit there and take the abuse. Orks never lose. When they quit, they goes fight somewheres else, so it ain't losin'.

  18. #18
    pooky biggins
    Guest
    Alright, just on that build order u posted, as stated u only need two squads of gretchins (the 1 u start with + 1 extra). Also it seems like u r spending a lot on research and waagh banners instead of military. DoW is about offense and you will need as many boyz with nob leaders as u can get.

    P.S: Dont switch to eldar or chaos and dont become just another quick-start noob.

  19. #19
    1337Dude
    Guest
    I ain't switching, thats for sure. I would rarely change to a race I dislike because they are simply easier to play as.

  20. #20
    Elferx
    Guest
    In other words spamming the right aspect warrior
    =.=
    Not 100% abt spamming.. require skills & micro to win
    Spamming won't guarentee a win for you

  21. #21
    Rampant Member severijn's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Belgium
    Master this strategy: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=66036 (why isn't this in the tactica imperialis?)

    It's called power tek, and it opens a whole lot of new paths to take to the ordinary ork player.

    Oh, do notice the ork's immunity to morale...they can have unlimited squads, so, instead of reinforcing squads, you could simply make more squads, and by doing this, you free up more space for the Nob Leaders, your only hope against an eldar player.

  22. #22
    Elferx
    Guest
    Yea that's what my friend did but it takes ages...
    I still beat him by spamm WS + Guardians

  23. #23
    Bret
    Guest
    Dude,

    Orks seem to be tougher to master than other races, that's for sure, but each one has the tools to win, you just need to sort out their strengths and weaknesses. First and foremost, you must lose the defensive mentality, if you have one. This game is all about offense. Never build defenses in a standard game, you are always better off putting the resources into more units. That means don't bother upgrading your waagh banners, they are destroyed too easily. Build units until your population cap is maxed out, or in the case of orks, until you can get nob leaders for your Slugga squads. You definetely won't need any more than 2 gretchin squads, and you would do better to start off the bat building Sluggas, then supplement with a grot after you have started capturing points. You may want to build 2-4 Sluggas right away, then a grot. Put grots on overwatch immediately by right clicking on the reinforce button, they do it for free! Be aggressive with capturing, and try to deny the enemy any points closer to their base ASAP. Capture and place a listening post down on as many points as you can, as soon as you can. Sluggas are arguably the best starting unit in the game, make the most of them. As you probably know, Orks are a melee oriented race, and you must bring the enemy into melee or you'll probably lose. Problem with that is the Sluggas have a tendency to get torn up before they even make it that far. Nob leaders are a must; they have the most hit points of any reinforced leader unit (900, I believe, compared to 650 for space marine sergeants) and are a vital addition to any squad. Stormboy nobs in particular have traditionally been a thorn in the side of the Eldar. My experience with shoota boyz is that they cannot stand toe to toe with practically any other ranged unit in the game, therefore it is questionable whether they are worthwhile. The only way you'll get better is to keep playing other live opponents. Look for advice from the experts and start implementing it. I've been getting my butt kicked for the better part of 6 months now, but I'm getting better and making my opponents earn their wins. You'll get better, too, it just takes time. Good luck and most of all have fun.

    Bret

  24. #24
    1337Dude
    Guest
    Hahaha, yea I never got a defensive mentality in this game, because defense doesn't even exist. And even if it did, I am more of a "Your good offense is your best defense". Stormboyz are still pretty useless against Eldar because all WS have to do is simply teleport away.

    And why not Shoota boyz? They are exactly the same except they do sightly less melee damage. Why not weaken them as you run at them and finish them off once your up close? But I guess I have to agree with you.

    I just read up on the Powertekking guide and I like what I am reading. I am definitely going to try this out.
    Does anybody have advice on what I should use against Vehicle units?

  25. #25
    pooky biggins
    Guest
    Lol, theres not much us orkies can do against vehicles, you usually have to finish them before that stage of the game. If you do come up against vehicles i usually quickly switch all my shootas onto ranged stance and mass rockets (and get the bigga boom research thing).

  26. #26
    Against humans (who know how to dance), it's always better to use melee shootas than melee sluggas, because as they dance and you chase you need to do as much damage as possible.

    Power Tek sounds good in theory, but requires excellent battle sense and timing. You cannot allow him to massively outreq you, yet you cannot afford to fight him too hard while you tek. And you need the timing to take advantage of the SMALL window of opportunity Power Tek affords you.

  27. #27
    Bret
    Guest
    Dude,

    I suppose shootas could be a good support for sluggaz, since you can only fit so many units into melee. And that's perhaps the biggest advantage of shooter heavy armies - they can concentrate their fire, while the hapless melee combatant can only rush in and hope for the best. Orks are definetely an early game specialist, since it's just suicide to rush into melee against dug in ranged units. From playing orks only this weekend I have learned a few other things that may be of help. In the early game, and especially on a small map, groups of sluggaz can easily dominate even warp spiders due to their sheer numbers. Once you set them to overwatch, they reinforce so fast that a low tech enemy can't get rid of them quickly enough. In my experience, sluggaz are a match and can overpower, even 1v1, any starting and lvl 1 unit in the game once they get to melee. Even space marines, with almost double the starting hp as sluggaz and decent melee, are no match for them once they get into hand-to-hand. Of course, once the anti-light infantry weapons start peppering the battlefield, the sluggaz start getting chopped to pieces. But that's when the wartrukk/trak comes into play fairly quickly to draw fire and give your boyz a chance to close in. Another thing I've found is that Nob squads with power claws will kick the tar out of just about anything - provided they can get into melee. I watched them destroy an upgraded listening post in a few seconds. But they are just too damned expensive. Four hundred req.?! Outrageous. Anyway, this thread has influenced me to give orks more of a chance, they seem fun to play. Good luck wit da stompin!

    Bret

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