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PDS Mark V Discussion Thread. (v7.0)

  1. General Discussions Senior Member Modding Senior Member  #1
    Philosophizer Locutus's Avatar
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    PDS Mark V Discussion Thread. (v7.0)

    This thread has been created in an effort to streamline the RDN. See the appropriate Sticky for details.

    Background

    For technical roleplay, screenshots, development journals/updates and other PDS related discussions, visit the PDS Main Website. If you are that curious you may ask me for a more comprehensive history of PDS, or browse the Completed Mods forum here for early PDS discussions (which are all but outdated but may be of interest for historians).

    Version 6.0 advances PDS to the next generation and gameplay has shifted in favour of a novelised sci-fi and modern naval combat feel. If you don't believe me, read a David Weber or John Ringo book then play PDS. As for documentation to what to play, go see the in-game menu. Self explanatory.

    This July 4th release gaurantees plenty of fireworks for all.

    6.1 fixes all stability issues in the 4th July release, and adds PDS' first supermonitor class warship. The Arelian Defender is presently assigned to special operations support (OSP, Soban TF)

    Download Link and Installation Procedures

    Go here to download
    6.1 at filefront.com

    6.1 Mirror by Ravenheart

    See PDS website news page for more details on PDS and latest dev. updates.

    Installing PDS is easy. Unzip the 6.1 package to your Homeworld 2 root directory. After installation is complete, modify your desktop HW2 shortcut such that there is an -overridebigfile parameter after the target quotation field, like this:

    "C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Hw2.exe" -overridebigfile

    For Macintosh users, see this thread and this one over here for installation details.

    Support Documentation

    PDS v6.1 Tactical Manual I by [G] and myself

    V6.0 2 minute Trailer

    V6.0 Trailer II
    V6.0 Trailer II Mirror by Thorin

    Community Contributions

    21 minute (133mb) movie by zgrillo2004

    Emergency Procedures

    In the event that the PDS Website is inaccessible the Relic Forums are our main point of discussion. For completely FUBAR situations we have this auxiliary forum available to our needs.

    Note that the www.penguin-mayhem.net site seems to shift to a URL without the www. at certain times of the day, so try out this URL instead if you can't access the PDS website.

    For the history of PDS, see the PDS Discussion Archive
    Last edited by Locutus; 9th Oct 05 at 12:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Creator of PDS&NGCS Tel'Quessir's Avatar
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    Excellent. I can see that we do need a fresh start. (my, this is starting to look just like a certain RL scenario on my end)

    Readers' Note

    Credits to the Hiigaran tactical manual go to Tel'Quessir (myself) and [G], as well as the fiction writers' guild.

    Locutus was not involved in its development, as the text would imply in the thread starter above.
    Last edited by Tel'Quessir; 27th Aug 05 at 4:31 AM.

  3. #3
    SPAWN OF SATAN
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    ceejayoz's Avatar
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    Please note that PS2MAN remains banned from PDS threads until the dev team decides otherwise. The last thread got locked to make way for this one right after that.

  4. #4
    RSViper
    Guest
    I reinstalled HW2 to give this mod a go and am having some confusion regarding the installation instructions. I have a fresh install of HW2 patched to 1.1. The Manual says unzip the files into a temporary file then take the file named "data" and put in in the /sierra/Homeworld2/ directory. There is already a file named Data (Capital D) in this folder.

    Do I replace it with the PDS "data" folder? I tried renaming the original Data folder to Dataorig and then puting the PDS data folder in the HW2 directory. No luck starting up the edited shortcut. I then put the folder Point Defense with the data folder in it in the HW2 directory. No luck.

    Could I get some clarification on this?

    Thanks.

    Really looking forward to trying this mod and getting back into HW2

  5. #5
    sanityflare
    Guest
    clean the drive lens, or buy a new cd reader

  6. #6
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    the pds data folder wont overwrite anything, afaik. Just copy the pds data folder into the base homeworld 2 folder and when it asks about overwriting just select yes to all.
    Dont worry, it wont screw anything up. I promise.

    Tel, I dont see that particular y-axis variable in the file, all I have is verticalmax and verticalmin, both of which are negative, and both of which control the angle of the dive that the liirha makes when it "breaks formation."

    Oh, and the thing with ships being given more health, I tried using hgn and sobani but neither gave the liirhas any extra health. It only seems to work for the vaygr.

  7. General Discussions Senior Member Modding Senior Member  #7
    Philosophizer Locutus's Avatar
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    Admiral666: You have been banned from the previous two PDS threads. Just because I made a new one does not mean you are un-banned. Your post and any future ones will be deleted on sight.
    Last edited by Locutus; 4th Aug 05 at 8:14 PM.

  8. #8
    RSViper
    Guest
    I finally got it to work by just extracting the files directly to Homeworld2\ folder. The pdf manual is a little misleading in the directions on how to do the install. It says to extract to a temp folder then place the data folder in the Sierra\Homeworld2\folder

    Cool mod by the way. Going to bed now.

  9. #9
    Creator of PDS&NGCS Tel'Quessir's Avatar
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    Extracting to a temporary location is a wise safety measure... if you know what the data files do.

    Tel, I dont see that particular y-axis variable in the file, all I have is verticalmax and verticalmin, both of which are negative, and both of which control the angle of the dive that the liirha makes when it "breaks formation."
    Correct - now note the difference between a strikefighter AI (attack from whatever direction and follow through) and the stock HW2 bomber AI (climb "above" target before "diving" to attack).

  10. General Discussions Senior Member Modding Senior Member  #10
    Philosophizer Locutus's Avatar
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    Apparantly for reasons I don't really understand Tel'Quessir has seen fit to unilaterally kick me off of the Dev. Team with little or no explanation. I assure you that this action will not result in any 'revenge' here at Relic Forums. I will do my best to keep my relations on this forum with him as civil as with any other member, and remain an impartial moderator of the Relic Developers Network. However I believe that Ceejayoz will be in charge of moderating this specific thread from now on. Don't ask me for any favors in the future though.

    Regards,
    Locutus.

  11. #11
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    I'll try using strikefighter paths instead of bomber paths, see if that helps then.

  12. #12
    Creator of PDS&NGCS Tel'Quessir's Avatar
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    Don't ask me for any favors in the future though.
    Excellent.

    This thus ensures that thread moderation will remain fair, an intended effect in my decision to relieve Loc of his duties in the dev. team.

    Neko - or configure the CL attack pattern similarly to the strikefighter one. The attack orientation parameters are right there. I don't think using the SF AI is wise as they are set to have very long egress time for the heavy fighters' low maneuverability.

  13. #13
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    As you said, they went WAY out on the end of their runs (We're talking 8000+ kilometers).

    Setting subsystems to first attack priority in the ship file made a big difference as well.
    I've spent most of the past 5 hours now testing attack configs, and the last dozen or so trials with subsystem as first priority have had the best results.

    There was one fluke trial with frigate ai where they almost destroyed the Big A, bringing it to 10% health. It was moving forward at near full speed when its engines finally got destroyed, and I guess the push from the weapons fire or something helped it to go off the map, and the liirhas followed it. I havent been able to reproduce that incident since.

    With the latest version of my attack script, and subsystem as first priority, The Big A still wins, but with minimal functionality. 25% health remaining, engines usually just starting to come back online (one liirha has trouble keeping them disabled), and one to three weapons systems active, for the most part barely. I think part of the reason is that with the attack runs, the liirhas will sometimes move out of attack range of the big A on their own, causing it to change targets, thus spreading some of the damage and giving the weakened one a bit of a breather.

    Oddly enough, setting subsystems to first priority made a big difference in the frigate ai, causing it to disable more subsystems as a general rule, and bringing the big A to about 40% health.
    I basically had to redo all my previous testing, once I discovered that the health values were changing every time I left the game and edited a value. That's what I get for leaving race set to random. =\ All my old data was invalid because between one set of tests and the next, the liirhas or Big A were handicapped or crippled.

    Trust me when I say you really dont want to know how the stock ai did in combat once I set both races to vaygr. (You gotta fix that, eh Tel? VGR gives the health upgrade in duel, regardless of what race the ship is from.)

    There are two obstacles to the liirhas totally dominating the Big A at the moment, the first being the Big A's surprising turn rate (It can keep its forward gun trained on the liirhas better than the battlestar can keep its turrets pointed even near the liirhas), and the second being the non-disableable ion beams on the sides of the Big A.
    With the firing arcs those things have, the only "safe" place is immediately behind, or under the Big A.

    Also, I removed Immelman and Split_s from the ship file. After I put them in, the liirhas would just take too long to turn around. They were harder to hit, for sure, but the time it took to start the next run was so great that the enemy was able to shoot at them more, and do the same damage, while the liirha was doing less (because of the delay).


    There doesnt seem to be any way to remove that little climb on the first attack after recieving orders. The best I have been able to come up with is a stop command, followed by aggressive tactics. (It wll remember on its own that it is on aggressive tactics, but I'm impatient and dont want to wait for the engine to check the ship's set tactic.)
    Sometimes it needs to be done a couple times, but once it starts to bring the nose down, you're ready to go. After the battle starts, it doesnt do it again that I've seen. (a couple dozen battles using different versions of my ai, each battle containing probably upwards of 50 attack runs.)

    At any rate, it does what I want it to do now, or as close as I think I can get it. (Without the tools to make my own maneuvers and flight paths.)
    I'm sending the script to you now, Tel, and to anyone else that wants it, for whatever purpose. (Particularly those that messaged me. You know who you are.)
    Last edited by Nekokaburi; 5th Aug 05 at 4:42 PM.

  14. #14
    Orion
    Guest
    Tel, in my experiments to create a long(er) ranged- Standoff Missile Frigate, I was unable to convince the Torpedo Frigate to fire. I set up 2 new HVM types, one with an 8000 meter range and one with a 10000 meter range (for the "Imp Torpedoes" research), set up a 6 shot salvo every 20 seconds, save, then go to test it and... the game loads, the mission loads, the Torp Frigate gets built, etc. etc. etc, but when I order her to attack, she pursues the target, stops, but does not fire. Am I doing something wrong?

  15. #15
    PS2MAN
    Guest
    This is my First And Last post in this thread for now.

    Orion, make sure the 10000 meter torpedo is "Specail Attack" and the 8000 Meter one is "Normal Only".

    And Tel you Better step in and override some decisions that have been made if you want me to submit the now finished HACII-IC for your use. That is all.

  16. #16
    Orion, I have had that problem too . I'm not quite sure how I rectified it though. I think I increased sensor range, and made the weapon "normal" not "special". If you do figure it out though, please post, as I will be very interested to see what I did wrong. :-D

  17. #17
    Member mr. WHO's Avatar
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    I just want to say that new Trailer is ready, uploaded and waiting for Tel clerance.
    It's 63mb, 5:53 min and base about amazing CVL class. Belive me this ship is a dream of every HGN captain.

  18. #18
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    *sigh* since a number of people who have received my attack script have brought some points up, I will address them.

    First: The liirha will still tend to rise above the target for its first pass.
    I can do nothing about this. The best attackrun style I can find is climbandpeeloff. It's what the vaygr bombers use against chimera station. Unless I can get my hands on a copy of maya, I cant alter the attackrun flight paths.
    The workaround to this is to issue a stop order. With the unit on aggressive, it will reaquire the target and usually level out. (in testing it sometimes took a couple tries.)

    Second: The liirhas do not alway pass UNDER the enemy ship.
    This is because enemy ships move. If you want to see exactly what the ai is supposed to do, send the liirha after a shipyard or a battlestar. It works best against things that dont move very fast.

    Third: At the end of each run, the liirha stops and turns around for the next pass, instead of making the sweeping arc I had mentioned before.
    That sweeping arc meant that the liirha took longer to make the next pass, giving enemy ships more time to line up and fire. The current method of simply stopping and turning, while leaving it nearly immobile for a few seconds, exposes it to far less fire in the long run.

    Fourth: If the ship stops 'mid attack' it is because the enemy ship moved and blocked its path. It cant very well just sail right through an enemy warship, so it hits the brakes and then tries to maneuver around it. (It's an unfortunate side effect of trying to make it pass close-under enemy ships. If they drop down, collisions are more likely.)
    Last edited by Nekokaburi; 5th Aug 05 at 6:06 PM.

  19. #19
    [G]
    Guest
    ...

    -is happy with original attack script-

  20. #20
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    -is starting to think he should have kept his mouth shut.

    If you want to see the liirha at its best, have it support some heavier, less maneuverable assets capable of soaking up some damage, distracting the enemy from the liirhas. Or, have the liirhas escort your heavy firepower, and draw fire away from your big guns.

  21. #21
    Berrik
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus
    Admiral666: You have been banned from the previous two PDS threads. Just because I made a new one does not mean you are un-banned. Your post and any future ones will be deleted on sight.
    Am I also banned from PDS threads? You never answered my PM on the subject.

  22. #22
    [G]
    Guest
    Naww, Neko, it's good to see you putting your effort in. Dilligence is always a good thing.

  23. #23
    Berrik
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    Nekokaburi: The main objection I've always had to it stopping suddenly like it does is that it gives any pursuing fusion missiles the chance to easily catch up to and dog pile it.

  24. #24
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    Berrik, trust me on this one, I've been going 2vs1 with liirhas vs Big A for probably 3 days straight now. (4 to 5 hours a day) The missiles? Not the biggest problem.
    It's those damn ion cannons on the sides. Those things will hit you regardless of what looping you do. And when you pull one of those loops, the missiles still catch up to you, because their path to you is made shorter by the loop.
    Next to those side cannons, the biggest threat is the forward cannons. If the Big A lines those up, it takes a chunk of your health (about 5% I think) off in no time. And with those big loops, it seems to happen a fair amount. (Or maybe I just notice it more.)

    Thanks for the encouragement G.
    One of my buddies might come through for me on an older version of maya. Him and his dad run a graphic design business, and cuz they fired one of their boys last year over some plagiarism, they might have an extra licensed copy somewhere on the shelves.

    **edit** and yes, I'm still tweaking the attack script, trying to find some way to make it better. I'm too stubborn for my own good. =\
    Last edited by Nekokaburi; 5th Aug 05 at 7:41 PM.

  25. #25
    Creator of PDS&NGCS Tel'Quessir's Avatar
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    Pft. For your kind of stubbon insistence I have no objection. That's purely because of your capacity for evaluating the larger picture before proceeding on your plans. Plus, so long as you argue with me on a regular basis and keep me on my knees we can get along just fine (rofl)

    Orion - perhaps PM would be easier?
    MrWho - cleared for video proliferation.

    I've posted newest details on MRAM2/HVM120 Standard Missile on the PDS website. This new thing will allow the HGN defensive capability on par with that of the Vagyr. MRAM2s perform like AMRAAMs against enemy fighters, like Sidewinders in close in combat, and like HVR150s against armoured targets. They are kinetic missiles tailored for multi-role capability. The secret to their success is the fitting of a minaturised inertial damper to a missile chassis. Which of course is shut down on terminal attack phase.

    This weapon system will be proliferated on every warship class from Kite fighter drones to battlecruisers, and is fully network-capable. So having a squadron of Blade interceptors with HVM120s can bolster your point defense grid and mediumweight strike capability effectively and simultaneously.

  26. #26
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    Hey now, I dont need any guy dropping to his knees for my sake. I dont swing that way, roflmao.

    Seriously though... If you can't imagine the forest, there's no point drawing the trees, but if you can't picture a tree, then how could you understand what a forest is?

    Speaking of big picture... How about making at least the side cannons on the Big A disableable? (The main cannon on the front of the Big A and the ToF would be nice too.)
    Yes, the workings of the weapon are inside the ship, but you dont have to slag the entire weapon to shut it down. You can destroy the opening it shoots from, and block it up. Or, you can take the time and concentrate the firepower to rip a chunk of hull out and get rid of the guns. Or there's any number of secondary systems required to make the weapons function.
    I have no problem with a weapon system being well protected, and giving the subsystem for the weapon the same hitpoints as, say, a full frigate, or even a light destroyer. But seeing as you can destroy virtually all the weapons on a supermonitor or battlestar, and cut the balls off their ability to harm anything bigger than a corvette, it doesnt really seem fair, does it?

    Just my two cents on the matter, and I'm sure you've heard the argument before.
    Anyways... 4:30am... time to crash.

  27. #27
    [G]
    Guest
    @ Neko - The ToF is actually built about the Trinity beam weapon. Its hooked directly into the fusion plants. So disabling it is pretty much a no-no.

    And if it takes too long to disable, then it should be tactically modeled as impossible to disable. :P

  28. #28
    John Sheridan
    Guest
    Well I think his point is that you don't have to destroy a weapon, or its power source, to disable it. Especially for a very large weapon system, or one dealing with high energy output, there are all manner of control and safety systems which are far more sensitive than the hulking weapon itself or the fusion plants.

    If such a weapon can be disabled, it should take comparatively little time to repair, though, since whatever you did to damage it is most likely something smaller and not so difficult to replace as it is to repair an entire weapon system, a large ship must maintain a large supply of spare parts for all of its critical systems anyway.

    Tactically this would mean you'd need to maintain consistent, focused firepower against the weapon to keep it out of commission. Not practical in all or even most tactical situations, for sure, but I think it would be worth having the option to do so, as long as it's not a back-breaking affair to implement it.

  29. #29
    Member CorsairX's Avatar
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    But the weapon is deep inside the hull, you would have to destroy the hull to touch it.
    The only thing i can think of is firing a hypervelocity torpedo wich would travel inside the TOF through one of the main gun "tunnels" (where the big weapon ends)
    But i doubt it is not protected by something. (magnetic forces?)

  30. #30
    Member mr. WHO's Avatar
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    Besides this, Hiigaran fighters will benefit from a fleet wide refit replacing 35mm autocannons with 40mm plasma cannons.
    I'm not good with low caliber kinetic weapon. 35mm AC is that Blade cannon based on vanilla HW2 fighter cannon? If yes then those 40mm PC will be base on bomber plasma,Gatekeeper turret or Keeper drones PC ??

    [G] check you PDS forum PM box.

  31. #31
    Member mr. WHO's Avatar
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    OK boys and girls here is a link to new trailer with CVL class.

    http://www.penguin-mayhem.net/pds/do...CVL%20test.avi

    Edit: I forget to add it's 62,5 mb and 5:53 minute long.
    Last edited by mr. WHO; 6th Aug 05 at 5:36 AM.

  32. #32
    Orion
    Guest
    Autocannons are messy affairs. When employed on large ships, they work fine, as the ship has the capacity to store (and even build) ammunition for such guns. On a fighter, however, they lack practicality, as the fighter can only carry a certain amount of ammunition. A plasma cannon, on the other hand, can draw its energy directly from the ships powerplant, or the by-product heat generated by it.

    Personally I think thats a great idea, as are the new MRAM2s. Excellent work, Tel, and keep it up!

    I finally figured out salvo'ed "Special Attack" weapons, so now my Hyperion doesn't go gung-ho with its missile batteries anymore. Due to this, she can now engage more then one capital ship at once, by ordering the main weapons to fire at one target, and "Special Attacking" the second. This will also help her in her role of fast-strike capability, as she lacks armor for any prolonged capital engagements; she can now hyperspace in, unload a salvo of missiles and a hit from the 2 main Ion Cannons, and then hyperspace out before she gets too beat up. Sort of a soften up the opposition-type role.

    EDIT: Well, I fixed my long-range problem. I now have a Hiig Torpedo Frigate with long-range sensors that can deliver stand-off HVTs at 12000 meters. She fires 2 salvoes of 2 torpedoes each, every 20 seconds. She has an alternate 'Super' Special Attack, which delivers 8 torpedoes in the space of 2 seconds, 1/4 second between each burst, with a 45 second reload time. I'm thinking of making this a "Must-Dock to Replenish" type weapon, but I haven't decided yet. I'd have to make Frigates capable of docking with something, first. =P Anyone want screenies? I'll post em.
    Last edited by Orion; 6th Aug 05 at 9:42 AM.

  33. #33
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    FYI Orion, ships can have ammunition PDAs with quantum tunnel receivers and effectively have unlimited ammunition within a certain range. I'm not sure if fighters do this, but since you dock strikecraft every so often, if strikecraft don't have PDAs then roleplay it as they're reloading on dock .

  34. #34
    Orion
    Guest
    True, Glacialis, but that one's up to Tel. I just make things go boom :moose:

    The idea of a Quantum Tunnel Recieving affair sounds very energy inefficient, however. So yes, we'll say they reload on dock.

  35. #35
    Dang mr. Who, that video is really good!! The CVL looks to be quite a fiesty mofo. Will we be able to have three of them though (I suspect we might be able to only have one given the past examples ie 1 liirhra, 1 defiance etc)?


    edit: Replacing 35mm AC with 40mm PC? Yay! Hopefully these will penetrate the LDS more, hence giving SC more firepower.

    The new MRAM's seem pretty cool too.

    One quick question regarding the shipguide: it seems the scales are a bit off. When measuring the ships in game, the Hgn_DD is MUCH bigger than 400m, and the Hgn_BCH is much more than 800m long. Is this intentional (the above mentioned numbers are what the shipguide says is their respective lengths)?
    Last edited by Jewegee; 6th Aug 05 at 10:12 AM.

  36. #36
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    The side ions at the rear of the Al Khalid I can accept being "deep" inside the hull. But looking at it from above, you have to admit that there isnt a whole lot of deep to the hull. I think it's generally accepted that ion cannons arent small weapons, but if you look at the front of the hull, there isnt even enough room for a pair of small turrets to fit inside. Let alone a full weapon system. Add to that that those slots at the front where those ions fire out of are VERY close to being in-line with the main cannon, which the ship is essentially built around, and you have even less room.

    The argument about having to dig through lots of armor is kind of a null point, thinking about it. I mean, that's what we do anyways, right? We dig through the armour all around the ship until it reaches critical failure and goes boom. If we didnt have the capability to go through even the heaviest armor, we wouldnt be able to kill anything.

    Now, I think I read somewhere that the Big A's side ions were salvaged from hgn warships. Well, take a look at the battlecruisers and the light cruiser. They're thicker top to bottom than the Bg A is side to side, especially at the front. They still need an actual turret on the outside to direct their beam. And those turrets arent exactly small.
    So really there isnt any room inside the Al-K to hold these heavy weapons systems AND protect them so well that they cant be disabled.
    Unless of course there's something I totally missed. :P

  37. #37
    Member mr. WHO's Avatar
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    Jewegee: Honesty I don't know. During The test it had a 1 ship caplimit. Those 3 were putted for recording purpose only. Maybe it will share a Carrier caplimit with Imperaror IV but seriously I think that 3 is to many, maybe 2 would be good.
    I call CVL a "Kahans Chasers" that should image it's power.

  38. #38
    you missed the fact that i believe the Helix bundle in CATA is in use in the PDSverse....this allows the beam to be directed from and ion cannon array deep inside the hul and channeled to an attack point.....may even be the same for the rear ones....I believe tel has mentioned the usew of the helix bundle but im not too sure myself...will ask at first available oppurtunity.

    APOC



  39. #39
    RaGod
    Guest
    Corsair: even so if something inside exploded or a shot hit inthe tube and damaged part of the tube you would perdy much wreck your whole ship by firing the gun...it sudenly has a new hole to shoot through aside from the one set in place already...unfortunatly that hole leads into your ship

    also will battlestars be usable in the skirmish vrs cpu?

  40. #40
    Orion
    Guest
    I'm thinking that the point of beam creating (that is, where the Trinity Cannon's beams come into existence) is actually further into the ship, more towards the engines. This makes sense; instead of installing a blocky, primary weapon in the nose of the ship, install it near the armored aft of the ship and just focus the beam down the length of the hull and out the 3 ports at front, much like the Death Star's superlaser.

  41. #41
    Member CorsairX's Avatar
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    RaGod
    Your right and thats my point! there is no way to disable the tri-ion-cannon the khalid has
    you would need something i posted in my previous post
    any sane vaygr commander would not shoot the main IC if something like this happend and i dounbt they would not know about it

    Nekokaburi
    look at the schematics of a TOF when you click him ingame (the same you have in the build menager)
    see that the main IC heads waaaaay inside the ship almost where the engines are (and where the ships is the fattest)
    There is no way to disable the main cannon (apart from the torpedo scenario)
    to disable it like normal weapons you would need to dig thourgh armor,decks,crewmen (and i you do that the ship is already dead)

    as for the side ion cannons
    you missed the fact that i believe the Helix bundle in CATA is in use in the PDSverse....this allows the beam to be directed from and ion cannon array deep inside the hul and channeled to an attack point.....
    but what if we destroy the attacking point?
    it seems more open for atacks than the main array (wich is composed of the same armor that the ships is built of)

  42. #42
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    I think it is modelled in the fact that by the time enough focussed firepower has been brought to bear to disable the weapon then systems damage from the inbound fire will have immobilised the entire ship.

    Reality is only a special case of imagination

  43. #43
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    It takes surprisingly little to disable a weapon. What happens when you bend the barrel of a rifle by even 1 degree? Or what happens when you put some debris in it? It goes boom right there in your hands.

    Given that a weapon like an ion cannon works on the atomic level, what do you think happens when you start smashing apart atoms from debris lodged in the barrel? I'll give you a hint: Nuclear reactions involve smashing atoms apart.

    Ok, so you've got some fancy device that can direct the beam without taking up a lot of space. Tell me what happens when a lucky shot goes through the exit point and smashes up all that fancy hardware?
    If they try to fire the beam again, it wont get redirected, and it'll rip its own exit point out of the hull.
    There is no way to effectively cover and protect that "helix bundle" and still give it the firing arc that those cannons have now. Just from sheer volume of fire, something will get in.
    It's actually less effective than a turret in a lot of ways, because a turret can be armoured all over, and the end of the barrel on a turret is in constant motion during a fight. Shooting through a hole in the hull, on the other hand, gives the enemy a nice fixed target to aim for.

    You dont need to destroy the entire weapon system. Just the method of delivery is enough.

  44. #44
    I think it is one of those things that will not change either way. This isn't about being fair (however I do agree that it is complete crap that the primary weapon of vaygr BB is in no way stoppable while the hiigaran primary weapons are all ridiculously easy to disable). I guess we should 'roleplay' something to make up for this?

  45. #45
    Berrik
    Guest
    Just as a note, if you guys are trying to argue to make the Al-Khalid/Titan's main gun disableable, it isn't happening unless Tel has drastically changed his mind on the subject in the past year and a half or so.

    Really, the main gun is hardly even the most threatening feature of the ship, considering it can only hit things in front. Hig turrets however can hit anything around the ship.

  46. #46
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    I'm not arguing that the main gun be made disable-able, but rather the side ions.
    As I've said before, they have a huge firing arc, do their best damage against large targets, and overall provide the biggest threat to large attackers.
    I think it's those side ions being non-disableable that makes the Big A so much harder to kill than a battlestar using liirhas. A battlestar you can disable the turrets, or even avoid them as they turn so slowly. But the big AL's side ions dont seem to need any time to lock onto a target, and cant be disabled.
    That makes an incredible difference in a battle. (Of course, if the liirha's weapons could be disabled as well, it wouldnt stand a chance, really.)

  47. #47
    Creator of PDS&NGCS Tel'Quessir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Neko - figure of speech. Grrr!

    6.2 is going to be a rather huge update. There's a lot of new and surprising stuff going on in internal discussions. In the meantime check out the RP2 forum on the PDS website.

  48. #48
    Nekokaburi
    Guest
    Well, it was a weird figure of speech. :P
    When you say huge update, are we talking tons of tweaks, or are we talking tons of new content, or both?

  49. #49
    [G]
    Guest
    Both. It's really, really exciting and bigger than most updates I've seen in two years spent with this mod.

  50. #50
    RaGod
    Guest
    yet again will battlestars be playable in skirmish, and if not what missions are they in lol

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