PDS Mark V Discussion Thread. (v7.0)

[theBlind]

I'd like to churn in on the fuel in space issue:

As long as you don't reach the speed of light (or a significant percentage of it) you can still spend fuel meaningful to accelerate the projectile.
A faster projectile has more force on impact (if it's an impact weapon at all) and it is less prone to being intercepted - simply because the missile spends less time inside the AMS' effective range.

[Ferrious]

While I've been following and playing the mod for a long time, this is the first time I've posted, so forgive me if it's not particularly useful.

On the concept of cluster munitions; they have been primarily disscussed as stand-off missiles used to decimate strikecraft beyond their engagement radius, or as a way to overwhelm interception and detection systems. Perhaps this is not quite their most useful role?

Instead of using newer missiles from dedicated tubes, requiring a fleet-wide refit, smaller warhead clusters using the same launch profile could be used. These missiles would, for all intents and purposes be fired from conventional HVM launchers (note that the warheads cannot be equivilant payload to a HVM - the burn stage and casing waste space as dead-space between missiles). As the larger vessels manufacture and robotically load their own ammunition (I believe this is true, if not please correct me) changing munitions mid-fight should not be an issue.

Now that I've laid that down, I suggest that the cluster missiles are more suited to an up-close knife-fight. When closing with another vessel the system could switch from its standard HVM payload to the cluster missiles. These are then deployed with a shorter effective range, but more agility than their HVM cousins. The role of these missiles would primarily be to flood the other vessel's ECM and PDS systems with targets, so that supporting salvo's of conventional HVMs from other ships hanging back could evade them with greater ease. The rapid appearance of multiple targets at short range would (I believe) pose more of an interuption than stand-off cluster missiles which deploy before the detection edge of the PDS systems. The agility of the sub-munitions would also aid in the engagement of strikecraft and frigate-class ships that tend to like 'hugging' the big ships to utilise blind-spots.

Thus, you can achieve greater confusion up-close with the cluster missiles, but when fired from standoff ranges they cause less damage and fail to confuse PDS systems to the extent required (excepting really large salvos). Why waste time on complex missiles with smaller payloads when the HVMs do their job, but similarly, why lose HVM payloads from the supporting sections of the fleet to PDS when a 30% (ballpark figure from lost warhead size and reduced concentration of damage) reduction in one ship's payload could allow the larger, more devastating missiles to impact.

Of course, this all assumes that 'confusion' of the PDS systems is possible in HW, and not that it simply kills 40% of each ship's salvo, regardless of the current number of targets...

[Norsehound]

I don't remember if 'shotguns' can be implimented in the game engine, and that said someone mentioned it eats up FPS.

Not sure if .miss can support scatter explosions though. I know weapons files can (the old flak file had the weapon, then the cluster radii damage.).

I imagine something like a rack of short-range grenades that are kicked out of the launcher with a prox or timed fuse, then explode in shrapnel. 3-4 launchers can end a wave of HVRs incoming. Obviously for the Vaygr. Will probbably update on the PDS site later...

[Orion]

To answer Ceade's confusion, Yes, flak missiles could be implemented. In fact, the code to do so is already in use. Most missiles in PDS use a proximity detonation system, and when they explode at a certain distance, they "spawn" the explosion. It would be fairly easy to spawn the same flak cloud that the Flak Guns use.

On the subject of cluster missiles, it has been determined that Cluster Missiles are of no use at this point in PDS developmental phases, and thus will not be implemented. That being said, we appreciate your discussion of Cluster Missile pros and cons, but there is no need to continue said discussion as they will not be used at this point.

[Norsehound]

I assumed it was model-on-model contact that determined 'damage' to the 'unit'.

The idea of a fragmetary missile would expand the size radii of the current missile with varying damage degrees at relevant distances (obviously). Coupled with a new or prexisting effect and we have something like the frag missile.

head over to PDS to find the proposals sheet... it's the first thing on there after the intro. So are Naval shotguns. It's all there as proposed...

[Nekokaburi]

My dasher loaded up on small lasers, heatsinks and engines with armor on the legs and nothing else pwns joo all. By the time you turn around to aim at me, I've already made a strafing run, gone past, and ducked behind cover. I was the bane of assault mechs everywhere. Of course by assault mechs, I mean typical slow moving assault turret style mechs everyone seems to like to make.

Shotguns could be implemented by creating a weapong like the trinity cannon, where the second, third, etc shots are slaved to the first, and fired from a slightly different spot on the end of the barrel. I don't know if you would be able to change the angle though, although the stock tanis hull defense guns seem to spray a suitable amount that if you fired an entire burst all at once it would seem like a shotgun.

[Unk]

Shotguns could also be done with a modified cluster missile (set it to split at a massive range, give the submunitions no guidance and high speed - the result is that they split as soon as they launch and look like a shotty)

[CaptainKotatsu]

Would there be any way to fiddle with ship AI so that, when engaging an enemy, it moves around as if waypoints were assigned to it? I hate having to micromanage everything like that, and if waypoint type manuverability was automatic, it would make the game a lot less stressful.

[[G]]

@ Neko - Standard HVM ranges (too lazy to find out for you :P). The best way to apply the initial salvo is to go under stealth (cloak) on passive, then set on Aggressive mode and right-click on a juicy target like a DWG or CV. The thermonuclear explosions are very effective in disabling subsystems across the board, opening up a relatively open attack vector for scrambling fighters.

[Tel'Quessir]

(note that the warheads cannot be equivilant payload to a HVM - the burn stage and casing waste space as dead-space between missiles).

This would be an extremely important consideration - if you want the equivalent payload of a 10x HVM300 salvo in multi-warhead missile form expect to spend lots more space for both launcher and magazines.. same for the cost.

Whist large capital ships and specialist missile boats have the capability to manufacture missiles independently the warheads are stored conventionally in magazines before deployment - moving to larger missiles will mean much lower battle endurance, this coupled with the reduced payload per tonnage of missiles launched makes it an undesirable tradeoff.

That settled - dev update for v7.0. Forget about 6.2, I've decided to kill two birds with one stone.

In 7.0 you can expect:

1. Reengineered warship survivability across all classes. Now I have attained a fine balance between presenting the lethality of modern-style naval armaments and the mighty survivability of capital warships.

Strikefighters have the potential to contribute decisively to the battlespace but their commitment must be planned for in advance - most capital ships can handle themselves against small craft attack more than well, so no more listening to how some players think that a strikefighter wing versus one unescorted fleet carrier makes for a fair AAR.

2. In accordance to the above, the BV - battle carrier class has been activated in 7.0.

2a. The following ships have been built to BV classification:

Deliverance (5G Hiigaran heavy battlecruiser - battleship/carrier hybrid)
Sorceress III and "Nancy Ajram" ELINT cruiser (300% increase in primary direct fire capability, 5G standard armour)
Hand of Winter BV


3. Completely reengineered direct-fire weapon systems

Everything from an Arbiter railgun to a heavy plasma cannon is grounds for fear - this marks PDS' complete transition from RTS to naval simulator presentation.

4. Electronics warfare will also play a very significant role in fleet engagements - indeed they are critical in fleet capability and so does knowing how to deal with it. All flotilla leaders can be deployed out of the line of battle as standoff jammers and datalink nerve centres - now you can't really do that, but you will be in v7.0.

5. MANY warship classes have also been modernised, ranging from the impressively outfitted Arbiter IV CF and CGE (cruiser, guided weapons, escort) and the (mentioned before) upgraded Hiigaran strikefighters with assault lances and gravitic propulsion.

Vagyr capital ships likewise have their close in weapon systems reviewed and refitted as necessary to keep up with entry (1) above - battlespace presentation.

This also has the effect of making capital vessels and command ships (regardless of size) important parts of a force structure not just for looks, firepower and roleplay.

head over to PDS to find the proposals sheet... it's the first thing on there after the intro. So are Naval shotguns. It's all there as proposed...

As far as I am concerned the entire inventory of new weapon systems in v7.0 have gone through extensive discussions. Any proposal that doesn't coordinate with PDS' development plan (don't know about that? Then find out!) doesn't contribute anything.

Reference: Note about "concepts need to be practical with our modus operandi" post in dev board.

[abomination]

What kind of ETA can we expect with this decision to go straight to 7.0? A guess would be fine if a more accurate answer isn't possible.

[Glacialis]

I'm going to speculate one month, possibly a little over. Believe you me, you will find that it's worth the wait. Let's just say that game balance for the sake of game balance -- you know the SOP on that -- is no longer a concern. Ships will behave more believably, and be portrayed in a way that will make you think "Why didn't they do that before?"

[Nekokaburi]

personally I always figured the balance should be in the cost/build times.
There's nothing wrong with having uberships, so long as they cost an arm and a leg to get.

[El Mambo]

i agree with Nekokaburi on this one

[Tel'Quessir]

To all eagerly awaiting v7.0 be it public or internal release, some screenshots can be seen here illustrating the new battle management processes and ship configurations:

http://penguin-mayhem.net/pds/module...view_album.php

And here you can see the new, indigenously developed ship classification system devised after analysis of present-day USN designation systems, which can be misleading and contradictory to most people.

http://penguin-mayhem.net/pds/module...&p=22050#22050

[Sora Hyrin]

i know this has probably been asked but here it is anyway. I am looking to create a simple mod with a couple of scenarios. My reasons for putting this here are this. A fanfiction author on Fanfiction.net has put up a call for help with creating pictures of key engagements in his story. According to his ship descriptions, they coincide very closely to pds ships. I wanted to know if it was alright to use the models and subsystem models/textures to create kitbashed ships that can play the roles of various vessels. The main ship i wished to use was the Hiigaran light cruiser. I myself am not a very good modeller but i am good at splicing things together. is this something we're allowed to do?

[Tel'Quessir]

If those ships coincide with PDS ship concepts then use PDS ships. That will save lots of your own time.

I frown on any requests for permission that do not give me enough information to make decisions upon - so PM me as you see fit.

You can of course bypass me and start doing your own mod based on PDS, and if it is not mass-proliferated no one would say anything, but this will go at the expense of your own credibility - this mod here is intended as a community resource and this is not just about your fanfiction, for there is a lot of potential for collaboration here.

If you've been to the PDS website you will see that we have a rather large scale documentation and fanfiction effort going on as I speak. So I'm not interested in reinventing the wheel.

[Sora Hyrin]

thanks a lot. btw....the fic has nothing to do with pds, its a legend of zelda fic. i have also read the fiction on your site and am very much a fan. i'll send you guys a pic of the finished cruiser when its done.

[Tel'Quessir]

Ok, Hiigaran light cruiser in Legend of Zelda universe. Start talking or I'll hunt you down and...

[Norsehound]

Why not? for all we know Sajuuk fell into Star wars and they used it as a model for the death star super laser.

[Tel'Quessir]

There is possibility we will say that the Progenitors hail from our (Milky Way) galaxy and the Sajuuk megaship was autonomously following a FTL summon when it disappeared.

Of course the problem here is actually imagining the state of Earth then.

This is of course, classified under the topic of random musings - we after all have far more interesting matters to ramble on about, like how a LiirHra cruiser is related to the Legend of Zelda universe.

[Norsehound]

I know the Progenetor-Milky way connection (I am norsehound, if you forgot... maybe I should change my name).

Indeed, if it were following a summons, what would earth be like? If HW is in the distant future, it's likely Sol went nova (or did it? Maybe humankind as we know it was seeded by the progenetors itself?)

Had this been anything other than a game it would have been facinating to draw concepts for progenetor starships (As I would like to do with the protoculture from Macross- pretty much the same thing). Anchient starships are awesome.

Anyway, perhaps if we trace the history of Kiith LiirHra we might find cave paintings of space elves from the distant past...

[Jaen-ni-rin]

Maybe humankind as we know it was seeded by the progenetors itself?

Or the other way round. :hide:

[Tel'Quessir]

That is a possibility.

Ceade - our sun is not massive enough to go nova. Near the end of its lifespan it will expand into a red giant and devour Mercury and Venus (maybe earth as well but it won't matter as the temperatures then would be far too high to remain viable for life) before settling into a white dwarf state.

[[G]]

legend of zelda fic

Dear God. That is all.

Onto real matters - yes, Earth will be 'consumed' by our red giantededed Earth.

Pack your bags and head for the MS-0.01! :P

[yasotay]

Zelda.... (oh god!) *rolleyes*

Please no gelatenous cubes....

[Norsehound]

Yes, Red Giant. I knew it would increase in size, but I guess I confused 'becoming a red giant with 'supernova'.

At the risk of a tangent; if we are talking massive scales of time, is it possible that the galaxy of M86 has been distorted in some way? The map of HW as we see it now is based on current images of this particular galaxy. That is to say- light from an unknown amount of time in the distant past.

Since we are looking at a galaxy of the distant past, could it mean that:
A) HW takes place BEFORE earth as we know it?
B) The timespan is not as large as we thought, and the Progenetors are really a third-party race that seeded/created humanity on earth (Prototculture?!?!?! See Macross for details on that >>')
C) Galaxies don't change much over the scale of Modern Day - Distant future, and we can go on as normal and the Galactic scale of time is far greater than currently imagined.

Either possibility is interesting. It does not have much of a direct impact on gameplay, but for background and phillisophical purposes it's an interesting subject.

...actually, there is a possiblity here.
It is known that the Vaygr do take elements from progenetor technology. To start my query, how did the Progenetors get to the HW galaxy from the Milky way (or another origin galaxy?) The hyperspace network? For all we know it could be anything from the remains of yet-another ancient race, or (on a religious tone) the network God used to create the universe.

Could it be the three hyperspace cores? Doubtful- the foundary ship made them after it's arrival in the HW universe.

A larger, undiscovered hyperspace core?
Galaxies are vast, and the HW universe is no exception. It could be that there are progenetor ruins still out there that have yet to be discovered by the hiigarans/Vaygr that did not or were unable to respond to the 'return' call from the MW. Perhaps among these ruins was an even greater hyperspace core that has enough power to move starships between galaxies.

Such technology, if found by either side, could revolutionize hyperspace travel to the point were neither side would even need to power up a hyperspace module. Other technologies based off extracting power from such a module or even using it in ship transportation (your BBX has arrived in less than two minutes). Further out there, the idea that such precise hyperspace control could be used to hyperspace components from large planet-based factories to space-born assembly plants.

And it's not just hyperspace. What wiped out the progenetors? I uphold the beleif of an inter-racial civil war. But that's just me.

...and this is a large post that is somewhat related to the topic. I wonder if I should throw this at the PDS boards to see what thoughts crop up...

----
And yes, space elves exist... who else do you think Vaygr longship crews have on their mastheads?

[Tel'Quessir]

LOL@ the closing statement. Ok, zenprime, make some nose art

Very intruiging. I'll post more when I'm not starving for food.

Ok, the v7.0 beta has been deployed - this is intended as semi-public so volunteers or those curious as to how different v7 is from v6 may contact me for the link and password to the encrypted test package.

The reason for early proliferation of the internal test package is that I've already completed the v7 battlespace evolution - and its performance in practise is at the moment, highly theoretical. So time spent testing it will go parallel in me making the SP campaigns and Vagyr scenario compatible to v7 - and buy some time to punch out new scenarios if time and inspiration permits.

[Sora Hyrin]

To be completely honest and to hopefully put the zelda question to a close, the fiction in question is an alternate universe fic involving the characters in a large-scale interstellar civil war between the republic of hyrule and the Independent Federation of Colonies. It takes place several hundreds of years after the events of Ocarina of Time. The author later put in technical specs and general descriptions of the ships in the story. The Freedoms Cry is an advanced, streamlined ship. After reading the description i found it was pretty close to the LiirHra...hence the reason i asked. Any other questions?

I also agree with the red giant thing btw

EDIT: Also i have been out of the loop and i find the side jokes funny. been having a bad day...reading the posts actually made me laugh

[[G]]

... You were serious about the whole Zelda thing?

On behalf of the PDS thread, I'm telling you to stop posting your request here. It's very unprofessional (akin to me posting about PDS game tactics in your fanfiction.net thread) and I think it's obvious we want nothing to do with your fiction.

On real matters. Interesting stuff, Norse. What wiped out the Progenitors? Religious war is my bet. :P

[Sora Hyrin]

G your post is duly noted and i only requested once. sorry for any spam

[Unk]

Personally I think it was whatever built the planet killers. It seems quite a coincidence that only Progenitor weapons are effective against them, and it could be a case of ships such as the dreadnaught and Sajuuk were created to destroy them.

That could also explain why they use such unwieldy spinal weapon systems - it was the only way to mount a weapon that could destroy them.

[yasotay]

Ceade - I envy you your ability to write. I have been working on my fiction for a year now (143 pages!), and you cram a massive amount of work into one post!

As to the Vaygr origins we had discussed (a while back) that they where the result of refugee from the incesent wars within the galaxy, thrown to the edges where they coalesed into clans over time. Not sure if it was your work or Les-R's that said they had been treated rather poorly by the Taiidan and that since they had been promised since forever that one day Sajuuk would let them return to claim their homes...

[Norsehound]

That could be Les-R...

Religious war? Possibly- could it be why Sajuuk is seen as a diety? Perhaps the progenetors worshipped Sajuuk it/himself and named the ship after such a diety. Then again, we haven't named a supercarrier God yet...

In one concept I wrote up a while ago, the T-Mat and the Progenetors had a massive civil war on the use of hyperspace- one side for using hyperspace to colonize other galaxies, and the other side against it. The pro-hyperspace users were the Progenetors, and the T-Mat were the Con-hyperspace users.

Nevertheless, a Progenetor civil war is a good theory to explain the dissapearance of the Progenetors. There are still alternatives though;

Man V. machine: Progenetor automations turned on thier creators and the civil war was not progenetor v Progenetor, but a war of sentient machines versus their inefficient builders. But then again it could also be a minority using those machines to destroy the majority of the progenetor race in another civil war model. This would explain the abundance of Progenetor automations, but no progenetors themselves.

(Alternatively, it could be another similiarty with Macross' protocultures. They were wiped out after engineering a new kind of combat form; the protodevlin. The Protodevlin were then posessed by extradimensional beings that enslaved and used Protocultures and their other biological weapons, the Zentreadi, to fight as the 'supervision army' against the Protoculture/Stellar republic. The end result was total annialation for both sides.

(To expand on this analogy it can be said that certain Progenetor constructs gained sentience by whatever means, and marshalled the Progenetor constructs to make war on their creators. In the resulting battle the sentient Constructs and the Progenetors wiped each other out- resulting in the massive ruins and mindless AIs that exist in HW2).

Plauge/Virus: Perhaps something native to the HW galaxy? The Progenetors were wiped out because of a virus (artificial or no) or some other kind of health related epidemic that no or few progenetors could escape from. In the mass decline of advanced stellar civilization planets that were quaranteened from the virus harbored life until they became immune or the virus expired. The span of time could have destroyed the great progenetor relics, but this is the weakest of the theories because natural disaster cannot account for, say, the destroyed foundary ship.

Outside attackers: I'm not sure if the Nagarok was made during the progenetor concept, but it seems to be the Nagarok was constructed by a race different from the Progenetors. This could mean that it was built by another race after the fall of the Progenetors, or that it was built from a seperate race entirely outside of the known HW/MW galaxies. If this is so, then perhaps such an alien species made war on the progenetors and casued the destruction/decline of both civilizations. This can also be said with the ghost ship, who's origins are still unexplained.

Mechanical failure: The Book Ringworld (written by Larry Niven) explains the failure of Ringworld's advanced scientific culture by the erosion of the superconductors used for thier advanced cities by some kind of biological agent. Point is, some kind of microbe, 'virus' or other technical flaw attacked a fundamental element of Progenetor technology that disabled the entire races' ability to function in space and use most of thier equipment. This would lead to ship/system breakdown that lead to the decline of thier civilization. It could be even that some property of the Homeworld Galaxy affected the longitivity of certain Progenetor components and resulted in their destruction.

[Mr. Pete]

Extra terrestrial? Eye of Arran.... was either gates around the galaxy or gates to other galaxies.

[Tel'Quessir]

That could be Les-R writing on my guidelines for Vagyr history. I believe the connection is obvious enough with regards to the time taken to complete key points in constructing said history.

For the Progenitors - I don't see how it will ever be worth your effort to actually write that kind of thing considering your status as of the last two weeks. I believe I have also posted ample beneficial topics for you to fluff out in various places on the (old) PDS website. That is the correct place for speculation.

[Norsehound]

True- this is only an exercise in HW phillosphy and exercizing brainpower.

Right now, Silveren has one or two ships that he might be sending to you for review that I could develop.

I'm looking into possibly getting a job soon- which will curtail my freetime to work on things such as PDS.

[Sora Hyrin]

As i seem to have offended one or more people, my requests and posts are withdrawn. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

[Nekokaburi]

Have you considered that perhaps the progenitors reached a dead end in the evolutionary chain?
Perhaps they were able to shape flesh as well as machine, and at some point made a mistake, rendering their entire race sterile.
Or, maybe they reproduced through cloning after reaching a high level of technology, and over time the genetic code degraded to a point no longer usable.

Or, and this is my personal favorite theory, they are called the progenitors because they seeded the galaxy with the necessities of life, and guided all the young races through their infancy. The invisible hand in the shadows, if you will. Guide them and raise them, but without directly interfering either by direct command or action. And then, when they have judged all the races to be well-started and flourishing, they leave for parts unknown. Leaving behind enough clues that one day someone would pick up the trail and perhaps come and find them. Find them, and tell them of our achievements, that they may be proud of us, like parents separated from their children in infancy, but proud nonetheless that they have grown into fine adults. Perhaps even hoping to be surpassed, as all parents hope their children will surpass them.
Cheesy? maybe. Done to death in this book or that movie? Probably. But it's still a kinda cool idea, isnt it?

[sekaino]

Yes. I've been trying to create a full line of vessels based on the Taiidan Sajuuk Cor E. I proposed on the PDS old site. I have them ready but considering the beta testing going on right now and the upcoming v7.0, I thought I'd wait till after the release of 7.0 when Tell's probably less busy and occupied.

[Silver_Wolf#]

By me its man vs machine though how the machine got its code corupted is much to be debated(Progenitors r extremly inteligent so its only logical to assume that their Moovers,Keepers and other AI ships were somehow hard coded for loyalty to the progenitor races).
Another 2 causes could be:
-Civil War:Some radical Progenitors(extremists from our world r their counter part) could have light the flame of war;
-Beast War:Remeber the Naggarock?Its Early Progenitor just like the Ghost Ship(Both were faster than light prototypes ho failed).The Beast could have come thro the Eye of Aran and invaded the Progenitor Empire but they fought each other to mutual extinction,the Beast trying to infect hole planets while the progenitors were in term forced to incinerate hole sistems by sending their suns nova.And finaly both were undone with the exeption of 2 ships:The Beast Naggarock with its drives offline and The Sajuuk ho left its crew behind on several planets to repopulate this decimated galaxy and under the command of its captain entered the Balcora Gate to safe guard the area from any more incursions.

[Norsehound]

I suppose until Tel calls for a cease and desist, we can keep talking about the Progenetors. Perhaps it might become influential on the mod, or maybe not.

The progenetors experimenting with their own biology is an interesting theory, but I personally uphold that all of the HW races are descendants of the Progenetors (or colonists from the Milky way, as established so far by PDS lore). If the entire populace of the Progenetors became sterile, there would be no desendants.

The 'seed and move on' theory sounds like the Xel'Naga from Starcraft or the Titans from Warcraft (probably one and the same, if you think about it.) I would like to toss this theory also- for why would the progenetors leave behind ruins of their equipment instead of intact peices? Sure if it has no more use I suppose it's easier to abandon it than move it, but how does this explain the destruction of the Foundary ship? I doubt any nautral phenominae could have destroyed such a large starship (and cut it up into reasonable peices, also). So thus I still uphold a civil war theory, or some other kind of destructively related cause.

Silver Wolf, I have already suggested several causes for the civil war.

As for the beast, since PDS lore likes to discredit the beast as some kind of bad plot idea from bad 50's movies (or the equivelant) I don't think the beast notion would become popular. Also, if there had been a beast war between the progenetors and the ancient beast, would the Cata beast have said something about it? or been familiar with the background of species? And from what I can gather it seems that the Nagarock arrived and was disabled in the dark age between the Progenetors and the first-timers (Bentusi, T-mat? whoever).

Digging into ancient civilizatios is fun! Now if only one of them would find another ancinet starship junked somewhere and rebuilt it into their fleet flagship!

[Nekokaburi]

It could be that the foundry was left behind as one of those 'clues' that I mentioned. There are any number of accidents that could have destroyed it, and even some mechanical failures over the centuries might have helped the process along. Or perhaps they scuttled it, for whatever reason.
There was only really the one piece of equipment that was left behind, with the exception of the balcora gate, and that was the foundry. All the other progenitor wreckage was from that, but had been spread out over millennia. Also, it's not necessarily true that it all had to break apart at once. The movers are exactly what the name implies. They move things, but they do not repair. Perhaps the progenitor ships required progenitor hands (or appendages) to complete repairs, and without any progenitors around, the debris just gradually broke up more and more as it expanded.

BTW, the Xel'Naga were trying to create a perfect race, and helped the protoss along, then decided that wouldnt work, and found a parasitic creature that they mutated slightly, creating the zerg, which destroyed them.

[Tel'Quessir]

Ceade - I believe I have already called for that 'cease and desist' on the previous page, and have directed you to the politically correct location to develop the Progenitor history.

I'll be damned if I have to post v7.0 dev updates in the midst of huge posts talking about something else. What you guys are posting are great to read - I've nothing against the existing discussion topic but you need to consider that if you refuse to take my suggestion here, you'll just see your own hard work disappear into the PDS thread archives without proper recognition.

Wheras having a dedicated and permanent thread in the RP forum that will be ported over to the new PDS website.

On topic with regards to v7.0 - this is the first formal AAR written for it. Note how fiction writing is much more intuitive than in any earlier version (if not any RTS game), especially for fighter engagements relative to the larger picture.

http://www.pds.hwaccess.net/forum/vi...=9&thread_id=6

Fighters escorting battleships can now stick with their responsibility for the duration of an entire battle for instance, instead of disappearing magically under adversity.

Likewise for taskforce engagements lasting a full hour with no capital ship losses (if handled well). It reminds me a lot of historical naval engagements where being a Horatio Nelson can allow you to get creative in bringing a decisive victory to your side - playing by the book will only lead to a giant slugfest that looks good but does nothing, especially where physical performance of your units does depend quite a lot on fighting the electronic battle well, and vice versa.

[Norsehound]

Very well- Progenetor discussion in PDS has been moved to

http://www.penguin-mayhem.net/pds/mo...ewtopic&t=1280

I think then I should wait for 7.0's release before expanding on any more fiction...

[Treaos]

I love/hate this new iteration of this mod.
I love it for the new challenges of ship to ship combat and the various superiorities each one entails, i hate it however for the sadisticaly hard levels on single player, sofar the oracle at gehenna has eluded me due to the fire bases along the main causeways

[Locutus]

@PDS Dev. Team: Check the PDS dev boards on the Penguin-Mayhem site for my last-ever post on that site. Its the Sticky posted by me.
It was nice working with you guys, good luck in the future, but I doubt I'll contribute to PDS any longer.

I was thinking of leaving anyway, having come to the same conclsions as James regrading Tel's leadership style and extremely controlling, Type A personality.

I'm here at Relic forums to stay though

EDIT: As per SOP Tel has deleted my post on-sight, so don't bother.

He was right when he said the roots of the "Staff Problems" were annhilated. Crushed under his thumb.

[Norsehound]

*shrugs* it was a pleasure working with you on PDS, Loc. Sorry I didn't get that Av to you... maybe I can swing it someday

And per chance do you visit the Studio?

[Locutus]

@Norsehound: I do visit the studio now and again. Planning on posting one of my woodworking projects when I finish it.

Sorry for the rant everyone, I just had to get it out of my system.

[yasotay]

Good Luck Locutus. Thanks for the hard work. She you around the Relic campus.