New form of cheating in 2v2

[SirTerrius]

It took me awhile to figure out what happened last night, however it goes like this:

2v2

player 3 makes some comment as the game begins about either rush or lose...

player 3 drops about 60 secs into game, and gives player 4, all his resources..and makes a comment along the lines of "Orks Rule!"...

who then proceeds to build crazy, and has more nobs, etc, then either of us...

now, i don't mind losing, but i do try to figure out WHY i lost and not make the same mistakes.

however, while this is within the framework of what the hardware allows, this is definitely NOT how the game was structured, or what is expected when you go 2v2...

there will probably be some who think it's funny or try it themselves, however, i feel there's a difference between being clever, and finding a tactic that wins on the battle field, and being cheesy and finding a way to win within the hardware/software of the game...

i can counter rushes/defiler spam/reapers and BL, however, i cannot counter someone exploiting the hardware...kinda like freezing the game when you're getting your butt kicked...

maybe if we started with 0 resources, one unit, and one builder...

anyway, just fyi guys....

[Stefan]

I dont follow, so he gave the other player all his resources, fine but now its 2v1 so it shouldnt matter. I dont see why the one player had to quit, he could have just transfered his resources over.

[grinn]

Yeah, I dont understand what you are talking about either. This doesnt sound like it would be giving them any sort of advantage.

[SirTerrius]

oiy...

standard start..

one guy builds NOTHING...

3 guys are building away...

4th guy gives all his resources to the 3rd guy...

play a game and 60 secs into it, DOUBLE your resources, if you can't see how that gives an instant advantage... well...

tier 1 eldar and IG don't beat tier 2 orks...

[CrimsonHellkite]

... that's not cheating. In fact, that's a terrible strategy. If one player drops, that's a lot of time gone for the second player to cap all of his side of the map's strategic points. Along with ridiculously difficult one-man microing and racial limitations, it's really a big disadvantage.

Although the boyz are tough, tier 1 Eldar and tier 1 Imperial Guard combined should easily crush tier 2 Orks.

[PitBull]

Well, yeah, one player has lots of resources now, but no more than the other two players on the other side combined (assuming that both sides have equal econ).

Let's say every player has 1,000 econ to start with. That means your side has 2,000 points spread over two players, and their side has 2,000 points spread over two players. Let's say the "cheater" resigns immediately;now their side has 2,000 points spread over one player, and your side has 2,000 points spread over two players. I don't see the advantage.

If the cheater hangs on before resigning, you should have an advantage. Since your side has two players capturing and capping points, your (combined) econ should be bigger than your opponent(s), since it sounds like only one of them has been grabbing and capping points. Two of you should be able to grab 'n cap more than one of them.

He's going to get a big pop of points, but at no point should their side have more points than yours, and in all likelihood their econ will be smaller.

[Dibujante]

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=75690

[JHD536]

It's a valid strategy called feeding, one sits in his base capping the local points and upgrading for the most efficient economy and amasses resources while the other recieves those resources and powertechs.

If you don't think it works, just try stopping 2-3 Dreadnoughts or Nob Squads with nothing but Sluggas/Shootas, SM with HB/Flamer, CSM, or (at best) Fire Dragons. The whole point of this is that you'll get Heavy Infantry(Nobs/Berzerkers) or Vehicles out before the enemy has finished an Armory.

It can easily be beaten with an early rush on the player recieving the resources; don't give him the chance to use the fortune.

[PitBull]

So he spends his extra points on tech, and techs up faster than you. You can give some points to your partner, so they can tech up, which should at least reduce his advantage.

And econ he spends on tech is econ he doesn't spend on building an economy or troops. Its an advantage, but everything is still a trade-off. He still has to beat two armies.

[apettican]

It's a valid strategy called feeding, one sits in his base capping the local points and upgrading for the most efficient economy and amasses resources while the other recieves those resources and powertechs

Its also a strat that'll get you WTFPWNed. From your description, neither player is going to have a large army. Any competent 2v2 player on a small to medium map will just mass and gobble you up. Lets say you want to maximise this strat. You use an eldar(resource)/ork(tech) combo, and you face a typical csm/sm team. When they roll up with 2 heros, 3 SM/csm squads and 2 scout squads with more queued at the barracks, you are going to get absolutely steamrolled.

The strat has potential to work on volcanic reaction, but even there, its unlikely.

[pooky biggins]

Its also a strat that'll get you WTFPWNed.

Yeah thats what I was thinking!.... I do not see how using this 'tactic' gives any advantage over an enemy that you wouldnt have had if your ally hadnt dropped in the first place.

[Edmon]

This stratergy works only with Imperal Guard and with them it is deadly.

One person use the bunker functions of the IG buildings to protect himself and he feeds his partner at the start.

The partner goes bunker ---> Tech Center and builds 5 teams of guards men (3 from the HQ then he gets 3 comissars) and 2 from the barricks.

He researches the IG armour upgrade as well. and reinforces. In as little as 1:30 one player has 5 fully reinforced guardsmen with comissars and armour / sargents and grenade launchers. The feeder ally provides the power for this tactic by grabbing a generator at the start and feeding the power.


If you have seen two skillful players pull this off it will crush two large armies with absolute ease with the huge difference those launchers/sargents and commies make.

By this time, if the enemy is IG they will have 3-4 fully reinforced guardsmen each if they are trying to rush or 3 mostly reinforced guardsmen with comissars. Either way the grenade launchers/upgrades make a huge difference as the 5 super squads tear the 6 normal squads a new hole.

[HFX]

Bah, this stradegy works with all races. I know. We used to do it all the time back in 1.2. We were defiler rushing when defilers didn't wtfpwn everything in site. However, you could often get them out before your enemy even started to think about getting to tier 2. The way to beat it is to know which one is the fatty. Hit him and stop him and you've won. They will not be able to recover. This stradegy isn't just the IG. It can be used by all races even now. Dreadnaughts, preds, hellhounds, wraithlords\falcons, etc.

[Mrguyisme]

Yes, a simple rush will take care of this problem.

[Weavern]

Isnt really cheating, its just allocation of starting resources to bolster the remaing player. The loss of econ and the fact that it is 2 against 1 will generally mean that you will pull out ahead. There is only so much a player can do with another 1000/100 assuming he didnt spend anything. You also factor in the 10% loss in transfer so its only 900/90. Now just by having another HQ if its shared resources you are both at +24, he is now stick at +20, if you both cap and get a gen you increase faster then he does and even if he goes for heavier units you should be able to out number him or buy enough time for the other partner to tech up and whipe him out.

[JHD536]

Incase you didn't read my last sentence there(which it looks like you didn't), I'll reiterate:
"It can easily be beaten with an early rush on the player recieving the resources; don't give him the chance to use the fortune."

Otherwise you'd be facing up against vehicles and Plasma Scouts/Marines, Nobs/Trakks, Wraithlords/whatever, etc against your 2 commanders and bunch of tier 1 units; and last time I checked tier 2 units are going to beat tier 1 units, including commanders, unless you have MASSIVELY more units or the other player sucks.

And they don't have to straight tech, the mass of resources allows the player to either straight tech and spew out the stronger units or just sustain a smaller army while still teching up at a quick pace. It usually works best with IG since they have better defensive abilities and teching up gives them much more to work with. 3 Hellhounds/3 Priests with Standard IG/Grenade backup will smear basically any army that doesn't have anti vehicle ready; which is the whole point of it: they have stuff out that you can't counter yet.

[Xthanitos]

lol. This is a crap strat. Sounds like the kind of strat a pair of cutom gaming, newb bashing, stat fans would use.

What about early Teir 1 fighting? When the 2 people take your furthest point and continue, untill you stop them or they get to your base to destroy it. Messing up your economy along the way.

[apettican]

Trust me, you can choose any race you please, but if you try such a strat at a decent level, you will die, probably long before the 5 min mark at that.