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http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/awarenes...orldaids.shtml
A day late I know...
I don't know how may of you are doctors, but I think if the Pope decides to say the contraseption is not a bad thing, then at least in Africa the probblem might get better.
Maybe some of you are strict Catholics and agree with his stance even though it is costing lives but for the sake of Faith its worth it ...I dunno, I'm asking you.
Formerly B.B.
#2
hmmmm the world aids day is on the same day with my country's natonal day
#3
/cynical comment
Imagine it's World Aids Day and no-one realises...
/end cynical comment
Seriously, I'd be mighty happy if the Pope would endorse condom usage in africa.
No gonna happen anytime soon, though.
I guess a generation of african parents killed or unable to support their children is no reason to change church dogma.
Excluding homosexual men (not to speak of women) from pristhood is a more pressing concern, you gotta admit that...
/end cynical comment for real
on wings of destiny ............................ (\(\ One Bunny
through virgin skies ........................... (0.o) to rule them
to far horizons I will fly ....................... (> <) all!
#4
There's a whopping big difference between endorsing condom use and getting people to use condoms. I think the problem is a little bit too big for the words of a holy man alone to correct.
-- Retro
Who the hell thought "erectus" was a good species name for our ancestors?
#5
It would still be a step forward
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yes the popes endorsment would be a step forward, now we just need tons of condoms and send them to africa.
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I compleatly agree with you retro, the probblem is alot bigger then this, but as Tiresias put it, at least "it would be a step forward"There's a whopping big difference between endorsing condom use and getting people to use condoms. I think the problem is a little bit too big for the words of a holy man alone to correct
#8
The theme for this year's World AIDS day is "accountability." It's intended to be a jab at nations who have not fulfilled their commitments to help the problem, but I can't help but apply it more broadly, and more bitterly: unprotected sex is dangerous. If you contract AIDS during sex, it was a risk you should have been aware of.
That's very easy to say in an industrialised country where ready access to education is plentiful, of course, but I have a difficult time believing that people in Zimbabwe just don't have a single clue what's going on. I mean they know it's a disease, by and large, yes? What level of ignorance are we looking at?
#9
What level of ignorance are we looking at?
#10
Please don't misunderstand, I know people are resistant to the idea of putting rubber sheaths on their penises. I just want to know if it's because they don't know about the risks, or they don't care about them. I don't think the latter is necessarily outright stupid. Given the nasty realities of African poverty it could be just one more thing to worry about.
Yes, people in some parts of Africa do not have access to good education, if any at all. That does certainly not make them stupid.
Alot of people in thise parts are very religious, and one of the many popular reiligions in these parts is Catholicism. If the Pope did endorce the use of condoms, then at least we may see some improvment.
Some of them really do not have a single clue, I watched a documentary once where this guy was travelling around teaching people about aids, one man said to him that condoms cut off the flow of oxygen to the penis and stop it "breathing", thats the level of ignorance in some areas I guess.
People need to stop using religion as a scapegoat. The pope is not the reason for aids in africa.
#14
It's the people who listen to him.The pope is not the reason for aids in africa.
YOU GOT OUTPLAYED DAMNED!!!!11!1!!!
-Eldar Player defending 120 guardsmen armour
He also says stop fucking around, killing each other, raping each other, etc etc, but do they? Hell no.
Just don't even start...
youre missing the point fatel.People need to stop using religion as a scapegoat. The pope is not the reason for aids in africa. He also says stop fucking around, killing each other, raping each other, etc etc, but do they? Hell no.
Just don't even start...
Not really... The whole culture over there is corrupted to the very core. What the pope does, or does not endorse concerning sexual intercourse is not going to affect such an overwhelmingly debased people.
#18
Is that racism? I think it is. Did you really just call an entire continent debased? I mean, WTF? And the whole culture corrupt to the core? Only becuase Britain (my country) and the other Europeans screwed it up bigtime.
Anyway, religion in Africa is actually very strong, and Catholicism is actually widespread. I agree that the Pope can't end Aids on his tod, but I think easing off the religious stance would be a step in the right direction.
Originally Posted by n0z
#19
You're underestimating the faith of a lot of Africans Fatal, they often follow catholicism very closely and the popes word means a lot. Yes there is huge corruption but that corruption is in the government, who also need to do something, not in the people.
#20
If anyone continues talking about Catholicism and HIV and they do not address these statistics I will delete their posts. http://squiddna.hwcommunity.com/HIVcath.htm
#21
Squiddy, your linkie is dead. I feel deprived.
Edit: Thanks, much better. Now call me perceptive, but I canna see a correlation. Squiddy needs a prize for "Best use of statistics in a thread".[an error occurred while processing this directive] The requested URL was not found on this server. The link on the referring page seems to be wrong or outdated. Please inform the author of that page about the error. [an error occurred while processing this directive]
#22
fixt
#23
Should Italy show that the percentage of caths is in no relation to the AIDS infected people?
Italy doesn't count cause 90% of these 96.92% caths don't give a f**k about religion and what the pope says.
Even the degree of medical education is a very large factor. It's dangerously low in Europe, so we can't assume that people in Africa know much about AIDS and the dangers of unprotected sex.
#24
Indeed, the point of the statistics I linked is to break the association between Catholicism and the spread of HIV and force us to examine the regions affected more closely instead of examining them superficially. If predominantly Catholic but rich and educated countries don't have rampant HIV while marginally to moderately Cathlolic but poor and uneducated countries do, gee, Maybe it's got nothing to do with Catholicism.
If Catholic priests handed out condoms during mass, people wouldn't just up and start using them. Catholicism is not the issue.
#25
Of course you are right. This is a matter of education and economic strength. But the Catholic stance can't be helping aids, so changing it would do no harm, except to their stance, which I guess is what they think is important. I doubt that there is any one quick answer to the problem, which is one of poverty as much as anything.
#26
Maybe not but it's an documented fact that many believing people in mostly poor states don't use condoms because it's against christian dogmas!
So it may not have anything to do with the spreading of aids but it's not very beneficial anyway that the catholic church has such antiquated sight on sex and protection.
#27
Oh, I agree the church really isn't accomplishing anything by advising abstinence and monogamy here (however well it would work, you have to consider that people are going to do what they want) but it's not causing the problem. While there are other vectors, the problem is notoriously unprotected promiscuous sex.
#28
This is what i learned from going to Kenya and i learned it from people in the village we lived in. This means it does not come from official sources and there is a high degree of prejudice involved in it seeing as prejudice is sadly as common in Kenya as in any other nations, maybe even more since harsh living conditions doesn't exactly bring out the best in people.That's very easy to say in an industrialised country where ready access to education is plentiful, of course, but I have a difficult time believing that people in Zimbabwe just don't have a single clue what's going on. I mean they know it's a disease, by and large, yes? What level of ignorance are we looking at?
Basically aids is viewed with an extreme amount of superstition and comparatibly few can be said to know the workings of the virus. Either that or people simply don't accept the facts of aids due to many different reasons and claim other reasons and use homemade or traditional cures. The belief that condoms do in fact spread the disease is not uncommon. The equality between men and women is very poor and it is common for men to have more than one woman and going to prositutes. When they come home their wifes have no real way to deny them sex nor to demand they use condoms and so it spreads to them and on to the children. In turn the men will claim they got it from their wifes in order not to be shamed themselves and thus no one takes responsibility and the circle continues.
From my view the low use of condoms had not nearly as much to do with catholisism as to do with deep rooted superstitions. While most of the country is indeed devoutly christian old african religions and belief systems have a strong place in much of peoples everyday lives. There is no reason it shouldn't, it is just that the particular superstitions against condoms need to be weeded out! People will not stop having sex and, as one man put it, children is one of the few joys still freely available to them.
There you have it. Once again, this is very much the view i was given by villagers so i don't claim it to be the absolute truth nor do i want to victimize africans in any way. This is very much their problem and they will need to do the main part allthough it does concern us all. Advocating abstinence like the pope and a certain president does is not very helpful and totally fails at taking reality into account!
Socrates: To be is to do.
Sartre: To do is to be.
Sinatra: Do be do be do.
#29
From things I have read from the WHO and such organizations, various superstitions are playing a huge part in hindering attempts to stop the spread of AIDS. Harmanoff outlined it very well.
Similar superstitions have also halted the total elimination of Polio (which is unfortunately making a bit of a comeback).
Good news doesn't rate as highly as bad news, and unfortunately over the years owing to flare-ups, genocides, etc., africa as a whole has gotten a very bad rep in the western media.
Remember: you're a blogger. Pretense is your co-pilot.
he's right.Not really... The whole culture over there is corrupted to the very core. What the pope does, or does not endorse concerning sexual intercourse is not going to affect such an overwhelmingly debased people.
I'd hate to say it but....they are probably the horniest race on the face of the earth,china being a close second.
#31
They're not any more or less horny than anyone else. They just have a lot more unprotected sex.
If you mean race in geographical terms apples, then yeah sure, but if you mean race in biological terms that's not what I was talking about. What I said wasn't necessarily directed at black people in general.
To whomever said it- If disapproval of a people's culture is racist then, yeah, I'm racist, and I'm not one bit shy about it.
#33
Which people are we talking about here exactly? You mean everyone in Africa? African culture?
#34
That is so wrong...
No, just the ones who are raping, pillaging, and murdering each other without pause. I'm well aware that there are good people within a culture which is largely barbaric, and I do not refer to them.
If you're asking me to pick out a city, tribe, religion, or specific nation I can't. That tootsie(SP?) massacre is a good off hand example of a manifestation of a highly corrupt culture though.
#36
The mass raping pillaging and murdering comes from a post colonial econmic failures leading to corrupt governments and indistinct political systems which continued to fall. As happens in most post-civil war societies where the previosu ruling parties are destroyed there is a authority vacuum, that is often seized by a militaristic government bent on systematic oppression, or a chaotic anarchic system of confused authority, several people claiming sovereignity. In such states you end upp with such ganngs with no morality structure, and in the other you end up with ortharised mobs trying to destroy resistance.
Rather than a culture of corruption the previous culture has been destroyed, either by post colonial revolution or by post colonial authority vacuums. Social order disintergrates, mostly due to the fast swift decolonisation, and due to colonisation in the first place. Before the british and dutch were there they had long traditions and vast peaceful cultures, after all Africa was the cradle of civilisationn. But colonisation deliberately destroyed cultural evidence, and as many post colonial historians have argued wiped away the old culture setting Africa back many centuries.
Oh great, now we get to wade through the mire of politically correct history!
So before the europeans showed up on the scene the africans were an innocent people who spent their time singing and feeding birds? Rape is introduced through colonialism? Murder is introduced through colonialism? What you're saying is these people have no personal accountability, and evil was introduced by the europeans. The africans just up decided that their brutal oppressors were great examples of human beings, and out of complete innocence just started to mimic them right?
Adversity is not a liscense to commit wrong. These people were not brainwashed by colonials. Your post reeks of excuse. Let me sum it up-- Bad stuff happened so people became bad. It's only natural, and completely justified.
Last edited by FatalTheRabbit; 2nd Dec 05 at 8:54 PM.
#38
Before colonisation they were a civilisation like any other. We see this worldwide after a colonial power moves out, Latin America, pacific East Asia and so on. To suppose that somehow Africans are innately inferior to Westerners is quite frankly verging on pure old fashioned rascism.So before the europeans showed up on the scene the africans were an innocent people who spent their time singing and feeding birds? Rape is introduced through colonialism? Murder is introduced through colonialism? What you're saying is these people have no personal accountability, and evil was introduced by the europeans. The africans just up decided that their brutal oppressors were great examples of human beings, and out of complete innocence just started to mimic them right?
oh btw it's not that politically correct to say that the weest screwed over the Africans in pretty much every way possible.
off to bed, too tired to argue this now, bb tomorrow
#39
Interesting theories you have Fatal.
I guess according to your head, I can conclude that caucasians that owe their origin from old europe are inherently barbaric by what happened throughout history.
I can also conclude that a lot of you are gay because of Greek pederast influences.
This is probably why you shave your arse.
#40
Another typical sign of ass-shaving is making up concepts like "the african people" which to my knowledge does not exist.
I am the Arch-nemesis of Political Correctness and I don't find Tiresias' analysis touched one bit by this abominable pestilence of modern thought, mind you; I blame PC people for discoursing by responding with specific reactions to specific stimuli much like Skinner's rats; if you don't want to be like them, read closer and think harder before responding; the last thing we want is anti-PC hipness.Oh great, now we get to wade through the mire of politically correct history!
Signatures suck, to be frank, unless you have something to link to. And I don't.
Africa had all sorts of problems even before the slave masters arived.
Africa had human sacrifices,stick fighting to the death,MASS rape(entire hordes of men would charge into a group of "mates" and 'satisfy' themselves.
dont get me wrong,the europeans had their problems to....
Africa is a huge continent; it had never a universal culture. Human sacrifice is a sign of a somewhat mature farming culture, if we are to rely on Frazer's findings, and is often preserved well into times that would be called by all means civilized and advanced: the Carthaginians, the nemesis of Rome, were originally a Phoenician colony, founded (on the Tunisian coast) at about 800 B.C.E., that developed into a mighty empire; it preserved child sacrifice to the bitter end, when it was burnt to ashes by the Romans in 146 B.C.E. So don't bring up human sacrifice as a sign of inferior civilization.Africa had human sacrifices,stick fighting to the death,MASS rape(entire hordes of men would charge into a group of "mates" and 'satisfy' themselves.
As for the other two instances I am genuinely interested in seeing some sort of reference to them. I am used to asking for that, don't take it personally
This is a good post. Why? Because it illustrates just how politically conditioned and emotional you are towards "racism". I, in no point in time ever stated that it was inherent. I said it was cultural. Of course, because you're so supercharged by society to switch in to fanatical gear whenever some one crosses into the political no fly zone of Africa, or black people you automatically, and nonsensically assumed I think black people are naturally wicked. I also at no point stated that Europe never had a barbarous culture. I know it did, and I think it's absolutely stupid that your actually trying to refute me with this presumption.Interesting theories you have Fatal.
I guess according to your head, I can conclude that caucasians that owe their origin from old europe are inherently barbaric by what happened throughout history.
I can also conclude that a lot of you are gay because of Greek pederast influences.
This is probably why you shave your arse.
You so easily turn a blind eye to my example, and immediately try to tag me as a bigot racist. Typical. Maybe I should go try and get myself a spot on BET... What do you figure they'll have to say about it? Yay for hypocrisy, and the complete farce that is political correctness.
This I just don't get... Why would you include this? It supports my position that these people can't blame outside influences for their behaviors.I can also conclude that a lot of you are gay because of Greek pederast influences.
Is a culture that nurtures the sort of attitudes, and ideas that lead to the mass murder of hundreds of thousands with machetes not barbaric, because it is a culture of black people? In your mind I think so. I'll bet I could call the serbs barbaric for what they did, and you wouldn't complain.
Last edited by FatalTheRabbit; 2nd Dec 05 at 8:44 PM.
my civics teacher told the class this,It was about the zulu tribes(which is africa)As for the other two instances I am genuinely interested in seeing some sort of reference to them. I am used to asking for that, don't take it personally
I've also seen it in a few documentaries.
If you want proof I guess you will have to find it on the net.
EDIT:Some people may have to face the truth instead of trying to find a way of justifying something that cant be justified.
human sacrifice is by no means civilized,so why not bring it up?
Are you trying to justify human sacrifice now and claim its their culture?
I think the odds are good that this will turn into a semantics argument concerning "civilzed", and "barbarous".
Yeah it seems that by region Africa has had less stability compared to almost any other continent on the earth. This kinda hampers attempts to create further stability.
That's essentially saying the general culture is creating, and maintaining the instability.
There has been no nation/tribe/population group on this planet that has not had human sacrifice instituted at some point in the past; some nations preserved this institution well into the civilized era and it was there alongside evidence of advanced culture and civilization; thus you cannot bring up human sacrifice as evidence for the inferiority of a culture, because by the same token you could do so with anything you find abominable and barbaric by today's standards. This would be an excellent way of disregarding anything before the 60's as the Age of Barbarians.
@fatal^exactly
when england ruled african continents,there was some civilization.
Then....the local tribes men ganged up and took back the continent under their rule(england probably could of stopped them if they wanted to)
where did this get them?now they are back to where they were before.
Its been a known fact in previous years that money/and supplies sent to africa sometimes doesnt even make it to the poor,but rather the ruling monarch and his henchmen to further his tyranical power.
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